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twintyphoon

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  • "twintyphoon" started this thread

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Location: LA, CA

Occupation: Music Producer

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1

Thursday, May 4th 2017, 11:50pm

Resonation Of Wind...? What gives?

Hey all my fellow RoM peoples,

I decided to send some old gear back to my warden to give warden/mage another go (since chapter 3-4) I have also been giving warden/rogue another shot as well--but that is for another day.

Any who, I wanted to bring up the warden/mage's 60 elite... Seems to be pretty decent on paper, (aka the skill description) but for some reason it doesn't do anything like it says it does.. In fact, it makes the class worse..

WHAT THE SKILL SAYS IT DOES: When your WIND CHOP hits and triggers wind damage, it will reduce the CD of HEART OF THE OAK by 5 seconds.

WHAT THE SKILL ACTUALLY DOES: Gives WIND CHOP a 3 second CD...(instead of being an instant cast (like it was before the player obtains the 60 elite) and even when WIND CHOP does INDEED trigger the wind damage, nothing happens to HEART OF THE OAK...


This is a real bummer for the players who are trying to go warden/mage, in my opinion.

Granted, the 70 elite is OP for the warden/mage pets, but in order to give your pet the buff, you lose a ton of potential damage (by spamming CC and WC at the same time)

In my opinion, warden/mage should have a totally new 60 elite. It should be called "Wind Chop Mastery" or something in that realm..

EFFECT: The chance of triggering Wind Chop's magical damage is 100%. Also, while Intensification is in effect, the wind damage is doubled.

With this being said, ^^, the CD of Wind Chop will also go back to the way it was.

It would be a very quick and easy change to go about. And it would make the warden/mage's actually have a shot to be in a run (i.e., people would want you in the run)

So anyways, just a thought. I figured it would be nice to have some debate on this.

#EndRant LOL


Or
Making sick music.. Taking LA by storm.

Also a hardcore gamer,

Keentech-- 98C/98P/60W/50M
Earthblitz-- 98D/60W/60R


The old Reni--Mithras

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "twintyphoon" (May 5th 2017, 12:00am)


2

Friday, May 5th 2017, 1:33am

WHAT THE SKILL ACTUALLY DOES: Gives WIND CHOP a 3 second CD...(instead of being an instant cast (like it was before the player obtains the 60 elite) and even when WIND CHOP does INDEED trigger the wind damage, nothing happens to HEART OF THE OAK...
It says "power of the oak". Not heart. Nothing happens to heart b/c noting is supposed to happen. Power of the oak is the 15% 2h damage increase for 30s. Also, by instant cast you mean to say "no cooldown" (instant vs cast time vs 3s cooldown vs no cooldown are different things).

The change to the cooldown of wind chop was mentioned and commented and reported on a long time ago. IIRC the response was some localisation error and/or wind chop was supposed to have a 3s cd before the elite aka. at level 50 3s cd, at level 80 3s cd, resononance of wind or no resonance (can't recall exactly which response was given). In either case, it sucks.


In my opinion, wd/m needs a little bit more than just this one fix to be useful. Fixing wind chop would make it playable with all of its current elites, but it would still fall behind wd/s or wd/w in terms of instance capability. A wd/w can strong summon an oak walker to be nearly as strong as wd/m oak walker during a short burst, but still have higher damage output on the warden itself so there's a lot of ground needed to cover to make it equal, but very few changes needed to make wd/m playable.

As for your skill suggestion, it sounds bad....Wd/m should be wearing physical damage equipment, so having a higher chance to trigger magical damage from wind chop will be an unnoticeable change in damage (doubled or not), and if you're a warden/mage using magical gear.....you're doing something wrong since you can't effectively use charged chop and your pet damage is based on your physical attack at the timer of summoning.


I think changing some elites to make wd/m more focused on pet is better. After all, the pet summoning is the magical aspect of the warden class....Change Narrow escape to a passive that allows instant, no-cost summon of Oak Walker (but not nature crystal or spirit of the oak to avoid abusing their abilities), and give wd/m a "feral leader" for their pets -- increased damage, reduced damage reduction and reduced aggro. As said already, due to berserk, a wd/w cna summon an oak walker that is nearly as strong as a wd/m walker, but has higher charged chop damage, so I think ramping up the wd/m pet EVEN MORE is the way to go.
Rovie wd/w/s/
Fiddydamage c/r/wl/p/m
Corruption
Artemis
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvw3IXqDgHoaK0lHJnyqBJQ vids of stuff

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "BlankMinded" (May 5th 2017, 1:44am)


3

Friday, May 5th 2017, 2:33am

I guess I'm different in that I'd prefer the wd/m to be the most magic-y warden build. I'd like to see the following changes:

1. Wind Chop - 3 second CAST, no CD. Range 120 front AOE skill. ( Think of anime-style charged sword attack ) 20% chance of inflicting wind AOE damage on and around the target ( 80 range ). Causes 90% main hand Wind dps. +6.74% damage. <-- the "real" charged chop that has a chance of "exploding" at the opponent causing an additional hit that's an aoe. This would be the basis of this warden class.

2. Tough Oak - Physical and Magical defense of Spirit of the Oak and master is increased by 5% while the pet is summoned. +1% per level, maxes out at level 50.

3. Oak Blessing - Frantic Briar now causes magic damage

4. Nature's Revenge - Nature Crystal responds to attacks against it's master. 200 range. Casts Wind Chop at the attacker. 6 second cd.

5. Crystal Protection - Nature Crystal detonates itself to protect it's master and those around it ( 80 range ) for 2 attacks. Protection lasts 12 seconds. During this time, no pet may be summoned.

6. Resonation of Wind - ( levelable ) Increases Wind and Earth damage by 20%, +1% per level up to level 50. If Wind Chop crits the opponent, opponent magic damage is reduced by 3% for 6 seconds. Stackable up to 4x.

7. Wild Offensive - Explosion of Power affects your pets increasing their physical attack speed, damage and reduces the CD of Punch, Sepal Stab and Nature's Revenge by 1 second. Every critical hit by caster or pet reduces cd of Explosion of Power by 1 second.

This pretty much puts together a cloth-based Warden build that does hit and run attacks. Wind Chop converts the physical damage they would do into magical damage. After the 60 elite, they gain Wind and Earth mastery to increase the damage of their 2 magic skills. During the hit & run, they would use their various pets buffs, but given the new elites, I think they would choose to keep Nature Crystal out for retaliation attacks every 6 seconds & sacrificing it to prevent up to 2 attacks to all friendlies within 80 range. On the other hand, the 70 elite would be a bonus for the physically minded players by reducing pet special attack CD's & increases their physical attacks & damage.

4

Friday, May 5th 2017, 3:49am

I guess I'm different in that I'd prefer the wd/m to be the most magic-y warden build. I'd like to see the following changes:

1. Wind Chop - 3 second CAST, no CD. Range 120 front AOE skill. ( Think of anime-style charged sword attack ) 20% chance of inflicting wind AOE damage on and around the target ( 80 range ). Causes 90% main hand Wind dps. +6.74% damage. <-- the "real" charged chop that has a chance of "exploding" at the opponent causing an additional hit that's an aoe. This would be the basis of this warden class.

2. Tough Oak - Physical and Magical defense of Spirit of the Oak and master is increased by 5% while the pet is summoned. +1% per level, maxes out at level 50.

3. Oak Blessing - Frantic Briar now causes magic damage

4. Nature's Revenge - Nature Crystal responds to attacks against it's master. 200 range. Casts Wind Chop at the attacker. 6 second cd.

5. Crystal Protection - Nature Crystal detonates itself to protect it's master and those around it ( 80 range ) for 2 attacks. Protection lasts 12 seconds. During this time, no pet may be summoned.

6. Resonation of Wind - ( levelable ) Increases Wind and Earth damage by 20%, +1% per level up to level 50. If Wind Chop crits the opponent, opponent magic damage is reduced by 3% for 6 seconds. Stackable up to 4x.

7. Wild Offensive - Explosion of Power affects your pets increasing their physical attack speed, damage and reduces the CD of Punch, Sepal Stab and Nature's Revenge by 1 second. Every critical hit by caster or pet reduces cd of Explosion of Power by 1 second.

This pretty much puts together a cloth-based Warden build that does hit and run attacks. Wind Chop converts the physical damage they would do into magical damage. After the 60 elite, they gain Wind and Earth mastery to increase the damage of their 2 magic skills. During the hit & run, they would use their various pets buffs, but given the new elites, I think they would choose to keep Nature Crystal out for retaliation attacks every 6 seconds & sacrificing it to prevent up to 2 attacks to all friendlies within 80 range. On the other hand, the 70 elite would be a bonus for the physically minded players by reducing pet special attack CD's & increases their physical attacks & damage.
That wind chop change reminds me of original charged chop (had a cast time). This can't be "dps" though, since all X% "elemental" dps skills use physical damage and physical attack as their basis, so cloth gear wouldn't work. It would just have to be "X wind damage", assuming I understand the concept correctly.

Frantic briar already does magical damage (use serenstum to immune). You mean you want it based off of magical damage (i.e use staff)?

Cloth based warden in magical attacks would only have the crystal as a useful pet. As far as I know, magical attack and magical damage do not influence oak walker damage output at all, so a cloth based warden build this way would only work with a nature crystal pet, making wild offenseive less useful.

What earth skill would an earth mastery increase? Its warden/druid that gets earth damage though conglomerate attack and earth pulse. You'd need to have the oak blessing elite modify frantic briar to flat earth damage if that's what you mean.

I'd be for a "magical" warden, but this limitted toolkit still sounds like charged chop spam in physical damage gear would be better....Would probly need to replace the pet-related skills to more focus on the magical damage aspect, similar to how w/m elites are nearly entirely centered around the idea of a magical warrior.
Rovie wd/w/s/
Fiddydamage c/r/wl/p/m
Corruption
Artemis
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvw3IXqDgHoaK0lHJnyqBJQ vids of stuff

5

Friday, May 5th 2017, 12:53pm

The idea is to create a new mechanic for this build where the dps is used as magic damage for Wind Chop & Frantic Briar. ie, Storm of Nature +16, t12 has about 7k dps. 2h mastery @ 50 would increase that 50%, so you're looking @ around 10.5k dps. Power of the Oak would increase damage by another 13% @ 50 for 30 seconds... so 11,865 dps so far w/ just the warden buffs. So Wind Chop would be a Wind 3 second cast that does 757.26% dps as magic damage w/ the chance for a 2nd hit on the target as an aoe. Consumables would also increase dps, thus increase the magic damage as well as the Mastery from Resonance of Wind.

& sorry about Frantic Briar, I thought that was Earth magic, so would need to actually declare that as Earth magic.

Wild Offensive was noted because I don't want a build that is purely magical if someone wants to play it as a physical dps & it also reduces the cd for Nature's Revenge, so 6 retaliations vs. 5 for those 30 seconds... I used to play the wd/m back before the change to pure physical & I loved that each of the pets has a role in this build. SotO for pure defense ( tanking style ), Oak Walker for pure physical offense & Nature Crystal for pure magic builds. I really think something along the lines of what I posted would help "define" this build as the more magic-based warden vs. all of the other physical wardens ( -wd/d magic build, which is pretty OP lol ).

& you are correct, the "proper" pet to use for this build would be Nature Crystal for the retaliation attack & protection sacrifice.

twintyphoon

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  • "twintyphoon" started this thread

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Location: LA, CA

Occupation: Music Producer

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6

Friday, May 5th 2017, 10:48pm

WHAT THE SKILL ACTUALLY DOES: Gives WIND CHOP a 3 second CD...(instead of being an instant cast (like it was before the player obtains the 60 elite) and even when WIND CHOP does INDEED trigger the wind damage, nothing happens to HEART OF THE OAK...
It says "power of the oak". Not heart. Nothing happens to heart b/c noting is supposed to happen. Power of the oak is the 15% 2h damage increase for 30s. Also, by instant cast you mean to say "no cooldown" (instant vs cast time vs 3s cooldown vs no cooldown are different things).

The change to the cooldown of wind chop was mentioned and commented and reported on a long time ago. IIRC the response was some localisation error and/or wind chop was supposed to have a 3s cd before the elite aka. at level 50 3s cd, at level 80 3s cd, resononance of wind or no resonance (can't recall exactly which response was given). In either case, it sucks.


In my opinion, wd/m needs a little bit more than just this one fix to be useful. Fixing wind chop would make it playable with all of its current elites, but it would still fall behind wd/s or wd/w in terms of instance capability. A wd/w can strong summon an oak walker to be nearly as strong as wd/m oak walker during a short burst, but still have higher damage output on the warden itself so there's a lot of ground needed to cover to make it equal, but very few changes needed to make wd/m playable.

As for your skill suggestion, it sounds bad....Wd/m should be wearing physical damage equipment, so having a higher chance to trigger magical damage from wind chop will be an unnoticeable change in damage (doubled or not), and if you're a warden/mage using magical gear.....you're doing something wrong since you can't effectively use charged chop and your pet damage is based on your physical attack at the timer of summoning.


I think changing some elites to make wd/m more focused on pet is better. After all, the pet summoning is the magical aspect of the warden class....Change Narrow escape to a passive that allows instant, no-cost summon of Oak Walker (but not nature crystal or spirit of the oak to avoid abusing their abilities), and give wd/m a "feral leader" for their pets -- increased damage, reduced damage reduction and reduced aggro. As said already, due to berserk, a wd/w cna summon an oak walker that is nearly as strong as a wd/m walker, but has higher charged chop damage, so I think ramping up the wd/m pet EVEN MORE is the way to go.
@Rovie, starting off, yes, you are correct on the matter that is does state "Power of the Oak" not heart. Forgive me that was a small error on my part; just because a lot of the skills use the words 'oak' and 'power' etc.

As for your comment on my suggestion--(keep in mind I had a very similar idea to @ycavan) about the warden/mage having the OPTION to go magic; if the player chooses. If you were to make Wind Chop a spamming skill again, with the chance of its magic hit being 100% of the time, it could have a nice build for 2h magic axes, 2h magic swords, or even staves. NOTE: just because the warden is already good in chain/physical gear, does not mean it absolutely has to be.

^^Furthermore, my initial suggestion was just an opinion. I never said once it HAS to be or SHOULD be this way. <-- I apologize if you initially read it as that--as that was not my intention. The whole point of the post was to get peoples minds together to try and figure out a way to make warden/mage better (based off of player ideas).

@ycavan, I couldn't agree more with the idea you had about giving each pet a skill/passive/etc., to give the warden a different "role" depending on the pet.

^ As you stated in your thread about the nature crystal now causes magical damage, as well as detonating itself to cause a pretty decent shield for two attacks--that seems like it would be totally up to the player for how they want to play the wdn/m...in terms of a "role" in the party; or even the game for that matter.


If RoM were to end up changing 'Wind Chop' to @ycavan's magic damage (AoE if it explodes) would be awesome for people who want to play wdn/m magically, or even a magical tank (similar to wdn/d (in a way)).

Lastly, I think intensification is an under used skill (unless you have a mastery for it--M/W, K/M, etc.) So initially I thought my idea for the 60 elite was actually pretty cool. As it was my opinion. It was just a thought though, and I'm always open to suggestion and change in gameplay. :P

I am satisfied with the feedback I am getting on this thread; as for I think warden/mage is quite unique and I felt it needed a another 'look at'.

:D
Making sick music.. Taking LA by storm.

Also a hardcore gamer,

Keentech-- 98C/98P/60W/50M
Earthblitz-- 98D/60W/60R


The old Reni--Mithras

7

Saturday, May 6th 2017, 1:01am

Hybrids have never really worked in endgame content, so I suppose these proposed changes wouldn't really change that, but would make it more fun? I was trying to focus it either on the pet more or the magical aspect more so it was less hybrid and more focused so raiding wouldn't be horrible.
Rovie wd/w/s/
Fiddydamage c/r/wl/p/m
Corruption
Artemis
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvw3IXqDgHoaK0lHJnyqBJQ vids of stuff

8

Saturday, May 6th 2017, 2:45am

@Keen: I think your idea about Intensification could work, but in the context of the changes I proposed, I think it would fall in line w/ Oak Blessing. I think it could look something like this:

Oak Blessing: Frantic Briar now deals Earth magic damage and Intensification makes your Wind Chops critical hits. Change to Wind Chop -> During Intensification, Wind Chop attacks are critical hits. Mana consumption is 3% per Wind Chop cast. After Intensification ends, there is a period of exhaustion. 8 second debuff where crit chance is reduced 20% and crit damage is reduced 20%.

Basically, Intensification becomes a huge bonus for the wd/m w/ a huge cost. If you're fast, you could pop out 7 WC's that will always crit for 21% mana. So that's 7 crit hits w/ 7 aoe crit hits. After that, your wd/m is "exhausted" from the effort. Think that would work for Intensification?

9

Sunday, May 7th 2017, 2:55am

Isnt it better to skip 70 elite and spam charged chop and wind chop than trying to have wc doing magic damage