Runes of Magic US / AU

Last I've checked and last I've heard, Rogue/scout is about 1/3 -1/2 the damage potential of R/m. (Will very depending on the fight)

Rogue warden if you weave Charged Chop is about 1/2 the damage potential of r/m may be up to 2/3 depending on the fight.

The rest of them aren't that good in raid environments.

Given the right circumstances wl/m and wl/ch do pretty well in raids. Wl/ch is decent for sustained fights. I don't have a number to compare to other magical classes with, but you will probably have to gear it a bit better to be able to compete with classes with less gear. Side note though: wl/m is always needed and is much preferred that someone actually play it instead of it being on an alt macro. You will get lots of runs as wl/m No matter what your gear looks like. But if you can do damage as well, people will love you that much more

Hope this helped :s

If the gap wasn't a big deal, there wouldn't be "meta classes" to begin with. If you want to play casually, play w/e you like. If you even think you'll ever want to do anything endgame whether it be PvE or PvP, pick a class that is "meta".

I play champion/rogue, as a non-meta DPS class. I'm very well geared, and participate in end-game instances.

My highest damage skill is rune pulse. My highest EVER hit is 37 million damage in a single rune pulse, and I have only ever done that once (recently I might add).. By comparison, i have seen first hand warrior/scouts that hit 80 million damage and higher tactical attacks, and scouts hit 80m+ snipes (and/or charged chops for s/wd and/or deadly poison bite for s/r) and 80m is considered low by some scouts.... and they do this on a frequent basis, not a one time thing. I would even say that most of the scouts doing this damage are also geared worse than I am (although not by much).

Scouts and warriors can deal more damage in 1 skill than i can over a full 6 second boss burn. The "meta" classes are strong because players have learned over the years how to enhance burst damage to the extreme, giving classes like scout and w/wd w/s an advantage over classes like c/r since they have a better short duration burst.

Burst classes have become popular because it is strictly easier for the best geared players to kill a boss in 6sseconds rather than execute mechanics (many bosses mechanics don't work, haven't been figured out entirely, are scaled to deal far more damage than players can survive, or cause fps issues). Executing a strategy to kill a boss also requires many real people, where as bursting a boss only requires perhaps 7 real players and 5 alt characters, operated via macro (or fewer than 7 if you don't require 5 damage dealing characters).

What is meta, however, is not the best on "all" bosses. Classes like warrior/mage r/wd "can" out damage meta classes on first boss IBP, first boss Vale of Rites, 4th boss vale of rites and sometimes 2nd boss vale of rites. This is because these bosses are segmented -- the fight itself stops and starts in phases, and is nearly impossible to burst.

There are also cases where meta classes can be beat by non-meta classes due to other reasons. When Vale of Rites was released, many of the m/w swapped to w/m for the longer fights. This lost m/w the "meta" status, but its burst was still strong and can still do somewhat well on burst bosses in IBP. For example, I ran with a m/w recently. Despite not being a meta class, and due to a combination of gear and alt-class buffs, this m/w was second or top scrut, beating some "meta classes" that were worse geared than him.

This also isn't to say that its impossible to do content on non-meta classes like r/s or r/wd. Just much more difficult. Vale of rites doesn't require any burst classes to clear. Classes like r/wd or w/m or other "sustained" damage dealers can shine in this instance, as well as on first boss IBP, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be useful in the upcoming level 100 instance. Non-meta classes certainly aren't a great help in the current instance IBP, where the second boss has a mechanic that 2 shots all the dps if it doesn't die fast enough.

It is "possible" that players with +30 weapons and accessories and other such epic eqiupment to burst bosses on non-meta classes. I have yet to see this happen, and don't see it happening without having gear that makes people think "you're either crazy, rich, or both!" but it could be "possible".

But regardless of these specific cases, meta classes are meta because they are better than others at something and word of that spreads, and people swap to playing that class.

regarding classes like r/wl:

If you enjoy a class like r/wl play it. Have fun with it. But you have to always remember, in the back of your mind, "r/m is better". This will matter after you actually try to start raiding, and fail to kill bosses. When you're with a group, and you can't kill a boss fast enough, you have to remember that you could swap classes to increase your damage, or that if the group invited someone who played a different class, they might clear content. If they invite you a bunch of times, and they come to realize that you're holding them back, you'll just...not get invited anymore. Have fun with your classes, but remember that you aren't using the max potential of your primary class, due to your choice of secondary.

@Blankmind, do you think, as a non-meta dps player, that a warlock playing for damage rather than support could keep up in an end game instance situation, not to keep up exactly with the "meta" classes but more like your ch/r? or something liek that? maybe still playing wl/m or wl/ch possibly?

wl/c is the highest damage dealing warlock class afaik, but I don't think it has the burst to keep up with a scout or warrior. So unless you are AMAZINGLY well geared, with tons of tp, you won't get invited to any raids, making your question a bit pointless...But to answer anyways, wl/m or wl/c could keep up or perhaps even beat my c/r....c/r doesn't really have any burst damage, where as warlocks/champion, does.

wl/m as a dps would sitll get invited to raids regardless of how much damage you deal, since you'll still be able to use the three main skills that make that class amazing -- warp charge, which gets applied to the whole raid, silent seal, and surge of awareness.

At the 85 level cap, I used to play with a warlock/mage. He said that you needed tons of tp to deal any relevant damage. He also was barely keeping up with r/m and warden/warrior, both of which typically get crushed on a short fight by scouts and warrior/scout.

@Blankminded Alright thanks man, makes me sad i cant really play it as a dps class , maybe ill try out rogue or scout or something actually strong right now

NOTHING is strong without gear, stats, tp, and skill..
If you are just starting out, play whatever you want to play... it will be a long long time before you even need to be addressing these types of questions I think...

Took me atleast a year to 1.5 yrs to be able to ask the same questions you are asking.. Not saying that is fast or slow just using for comparison.

I started playing the game as a knight.. just to get into runs.. and slowly made a scout back in 58-60 content...,and I played a s/k dps back then haha.

you also have to remember at any point in this game... the developers could completely change any class they decide to, or make a new elite skill or iss that makes a useless combo the most powerful at any time they decide to screw more up...

so all these answer could be irrelevant someday too...

Point is, play what you want... play multiple toons, play it for fun, after all it is why we game right? GL

@Aatroxity
I still recommend playing something like warlock/mage if you enjoy it. You can gear it as a damage dealer if you want. You will ALWAYS get a raid invite as a warlock/mage, regardless of dealing low or high amounts of damage. Abuse that fact to get into raids, make better gear, and pretty soon you'll be dealing surprising amounts of damage (not on par with a scout but wl/m is OP in other ways)...who knows, maybe you'll get to try out wl/c as a damage dealer once you've got a fully decked out character.

Scout will just let you deal "sufficient damage to kill bosses" without needing a fully decked out toon, since they deal stupidly high amounts of damage.

The meta classes can deal "reasonable" damage using garbage gear, and absurd damage using excellent gear. Classes like my champ/rogue deal "adequate" damage with excellent gear. You can get into instances sooner, with worse items, using meta classes. Once you're at that point, you can work on making amazing gear for random classes to try out assuming you have the time and resources.

@cerb
Meta classes ARE strong without tp, and with non-optimal gear. A scout with only 500m tp and level 90 armor/accessories and a level 99 xbow can burst for more than my vor+ibp armor-wearing, 1.3 billion tp c/r. You don't need a lot of tp when 90% of your damage comes from 1-2 skills plus a bunch of cooldowns and item-set skills.

While I agree with you cerb, and believe that ppl should just play what they want, the game isn't coded well enough to make every class viable in end game content. Between broken, glitchy bosses, and mechanics that kill people too fast to actually do anything about them, the only way players have cleared end game content is by abusing the "meta" classes. Vale was a godsend in this regard, as it had actual working mechanics, and CAN actually be completed by nearly any raid composition. However, IBP failed to follow suite -- the physical damage from stuff like second boss Rock Thrust spell, or 3rd boss Nature's Waterfall or( w/e that channel spell was called) is too high for squishy classes like r/s to survive, even if they have a lot of hp. If these damage sources were better tuned, ibp would be a great instance also.

Alright maybe ill stick with warlock then, idk, im kinda between warlock and rogue, i just want to make sure im playing something that will get me groups

even 500 million tp is a metric ton for new players to conceive is part of my point is all, until they are ready to invest that kind of time, and resources into, the gear, the stats, the tp, etc etc etc. they should just play what they want as it doesn't matter yet...... yet...

like my point is... if you like warlock rogue, play warlock rogue to your hearts content.... but if you want to run... have a /m side.... is all....

and sometimes you might get lucky and party may already have a wl/m in group, and you might be able to "test" out your class you love so much

just trying to give new players hope of having fun AND doing what they want in game

I don't like it when ppl say you need to have XYZ in order to run. I was, very poorly it seems, trying to illustrate this by saying a character with low tp and "older" gear can still raid current content, provided their weapon is up to date, as long as they are a good class and played well. They won't top scrut, but a scout doing 80m burst damage instead of 150m can clear IBP, when the other dps also do 80m bursts. I had to nearly beg a returning player to run vale of rites because they had it in their mind that "they were too weak". One of our first vale cleares was with them...this was last September or something.

@FamerTom, im a not a new player though, i used to raid end game back when 70 was the cap, i was just curious now what was good or waht i could get away with before i get something leveled and geared, like said, i like warlock as a damage class but i want to play something thats good so i can get into raids without an issue

my apologies friend.