Runes of Magic US / AU

How do we know that this nef isn't just the first stage in a transition to modified instance boss abilities away from simply burning every boss before they enrage? It's not like GF/RW are really known for transparency and/or effective and timely communication even though both have been repeatedly asked for and at some points promised (remember the pit?). Perhaps this is just a sign of things to come rather than another over zealous attempt to try and squeeze even more money out of the few remaining players willing to invest in the game.

I sincerely hope for the overly-optimistic this could very well be the case. For those of us who have a lot of time/effort/money invested into RoM who are loath to move on for those reasons alone this could actually prove that our waiting for change has not been in vain. Only time will tell of course.

Personally, I need a little more to go on before I can in all conscience invest much more of anything into RoM. Dropping a ban hammer without any further information does little to inspire confidence in the game or those who run it. Perhaps we can get a blue to respond at some point to reassure us that there is a plan moving forward? Such a small thing would make a huge difference to those like me sitting on the fence right now.

@Tuuli,

We don't find out their intentions until level 92 instance comes out. Burn or die, or strat. I think it'll be like Belathis (heavily strat oriented).

That being said, only the endgamers will be able to do them. No one but PPK has done belathis HM on artemis. (if i'm wrong correct me)

Even if bosses are strattable, no one will be able to do them but endgamers. The other day there was a party capable of CoE first boss if they did the strat (which could be taught by a member in the party) but instead, they wanted to do GoH.

Quoted from "bleedingblak"

@Tuuli,

We don't find out their intentions until level 92 instance comes out. Burn or die, or strat. I think it'll be like Belathis (heavily strat oriented).

That being said, only the endgamers will be able to do them. No one but PPK has done belathis HM on artemis. (if i'm wrong correct me)

Even if bosses are strattable, no one will be able to do them but endgamers. The other day there was a party capable of CoE first boss if they did the strat (which could be taught by a member in the party) but instead, they wanted to do GoH.

Agreed, time will indeed tell and I, like many I'm sure, are hoping for more than just "more of the same". T

As far as only endgame guilds and endgame players being the only ones able to complete instances, I'm actually quite ok with them being the only ones to be able to complete hard mode versions of instances. That is how the vast majority of instanced based games are set-up: Hard mode is for the hard core players.

Now if mid-level and casual guilds with some decently geared and skilled players are not able to complete these instances on normal then that IS a problem. I'm not saying they should be able to burn all the bosses on normal mode. Let's face it, developers create boss encounters with a counter strategy in mind to defeat those bosses. All burning does is by-pass the work they put into it. As long as it is possible to complete these instances on normal mode with a decently geared group working through a combination of strategy and burn phases then, well, they are where they need to be. Again, if this is NOT the case, then those instances need balancing.

The biggest issue IMHO is the paradigm shift from the earliest chapters in this game to where we are now. There is an overwhelmingly pervasive expectation that every player needs only the latest and greatest OD HM gear and that anything else is unacceptable. Likewise, too many players are trying to gear themselves to run hard mode instances when their guild and/or group of online friends is not now nor will they ever in the near future be hard mode capable. Part of that problem lies in the alternatives. Too many guilds, again IMHO, try to rush from easy mode to hard mode, skipping normal mode all together. The proof is the lack of normal mode gear showing up in the AH. That leaves an enormous disparity between HM gear and shell/crafted/etc. The gap between normal and HM gear is NOT nearly as significant and would suffice for most players.

Sorry for the overlong post, but I feel this is important. We as a community really need to realign our thinking that normal mode should be the target instance level for 90% of the guilds and players in the game. I believe we also need to grow those instances to 12-man instead of 6 so that more players can get involved in it. Who cares if a party doesn't NEED 12 players to complete the instance, the game needs an instance level that the majority of players can reasonably participate in that doesn't leave them feeling cheated like they do when trying to use the clearly inferior easy mode gear. To that end, I would again suggest that it would be very supportive of GF/RW for a blue to post something letting us know they are looking at the ripple effect of the k/w nerf and whether that is part of an overall balancing strategy or not (maybe even a hit of what is to come?).

At this point, there are just way too many players becoming disenfranchised with RoM as a whole. We see it on the forums, the server chat channels and the numbers of guild members no longer logging in other than to say "hi". We need change. Continuing to do what we are doing and expecting different results is insanity.

If you're still reading then again I apologize for the overlong post. I look forward to constructive responses and further discussion.

@Tuulikki

I find what you say about how Normal mode should be the goal for most and hard mode should be for the hard core players interesting.

I think i can see the idea behind that and maybe believe in it.

One problem i see though is when you talked about lack of normal mode gear in AH. I don't think the lack of NM gear in AH is simply due to the lack of people running it but more of a much bigger problem. The fact that we must use real life money aka diamonds to unbind all gear that is dropped just to put it on the AH. I have seen so much Hard mode gear being trashed just because its UD so the price of unbinding it would hurt the seller more then profit.

A shift in mentality about gears value could help change that but more importantly removing the need of Advanced unbinders or even unbinding all together of dropped gear would play a big roll in helping items being put on the AH.

If RW must have aub and normal ones, i would rather see it only apply to gear that is being used. All dropped items that are tradebale are unbound and bind on equip.

Needing real life money to trade items is a way to make sure the AH never does well in Gear unless its top of the line.

Quoted from "Tuulikki"

As far as only endgame guilds and endgame players being the only ones able to complete instances, I'm actually quite ok with them being the only ones to be able to complete hard mode versions of instances. That is how the vast majority of instanced based games are set-up: Hard mode is for the hard core players.

Now if mid-level and casual guilds with some decently geared and skilled players are not able to complete these instances on normal then that IS a problem.

Its not normal mode difficulty causing a problem. Midgame guilds on Govinda cleared PoM normal the first day. The issue is that the loot sucks. If you're party is geared enough to run (burn) normal mode of an instance, 75% of the gear drop is a downgrade from what you're wearing. And stat drop rate is awful (str/pa, dex/pa, sta/pa only drop off of last boss in PoM aand their drop rate is around 1/85 as per RomWelten data). So if yo're trying to restat half your gear, have fun running PoM normal mode 510 times to get 6 str/pa pillars, then another 510 times for normal modes of other instances, because most of them are similar in stat drops...

Nobody wants to run an entire instance for a 1/85 chance to get a stat they need off of last boss, period. That's why nobody runs normal mode anymore.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "Tuulikki"



As far as only endgame guilds and endgame players being the only ones able to complete instances, I'm actually quite ok with them being the only ones to be able to complete hard mode versions of instances. That is how the vast majority of instanced based games are set-up: Hard mode is for the hard core players.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Now if mid-level and casual guilds with some decently geared and skilled players are not able to complete these instances on normal then that IS a problem.
Its not normal mode difficulty causing a problem. Midgame guilds on Govinda cleared PoM normal the first day. The issue is that the loot sucks. If you're party is geared enough to run (burn) normal mode of an instance, 75% of the gear drop is a downgrade from what you're wearing. And stat drop rate is awful (str/pa, dex/pa, sta/pa only drop off of last boss in PoM aand their drop rate is around 1/85 as per RomWelten data). So if yo're trying to restat half your gear, have fun running PoM normal mode 510 times to get 6 str/pa pillars, then another 510 times for normal modes of other instances, because most of them are similar in stat drops...

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Nobody wants to run an entire instance for a 1/85 chance to get a stat they need off of last boss, period. That's why nobody runs normal mode anymore.

you forgot the part where you have to roll against the other ppl in your party if they are looking for the same stat

Some very good points here. There is indeed issues with gear/statting levels and drop rates. Let's face it, statting is a pretty daunting task for a great many of us. Personally, one of the things I despise about RoM (yes - despise, not just hate) is the insanely long time it takes to even decently stat gear unless you have the most incredible luck with RNG, few people in your group rolling against you for stats and/or an enormous amount of gold saved up.

Str/patk, dex/patk and int/matk ALL need to have their drop rates adjusted to the current status of the game. In short, we just don't have the people playing anymore to sustain the current implementation we have now. Sure, the PoM event helped, but we can't always just apply the standard of what is good for the end-gamer sitting on several gold caps, we need to look at the mid-level and new players that are the future of the game.

With that said, I hold to my original statement regarding normal mode instances. We may as well rename the game Runes of Siege right now because we have so few people running instances in an instance based game. With more people running instances at a level they can reasonably complete, more things will become available either directly or indirectly through the AH.

As it is right now, we have a LOT of consumers in RoM, many of whom gear and stat almost exclusively out of the AH and phirius vendors. One analogy might be the gathering of guild mats for building upgrades. If only a couple people do it it takes forever. The more people contributing a bit here and there makes the process far less painful lol.

Tying it back to the OP so we're not potentially accused of going too far off-topic, with the K/W nerf I think it's more important now than ever to find ways to work around the state of the game where we can. Still haven't seen anything from a blue justifying the rationale behind the K/W nerf and whether or not this is part of a bigger picture or just a knee jerk reaction to complaints. Guess I shouldn't hold my breath on that.....maybe it's time to learn german idk...

very interesting comments here people, but true, why did hey nerf AD? no one of authority commented on that?. It's like someone working at Runewaker woke up on the wrong side of his bed and said, let's nerf this and make people rage. Usually an explanation should come with such things but i guess Gameforge has even less intention for the game than they ever did but look at all the promos, offers and convention for their other games ;-( so good to be the unwanted adopted red haired child of Gameforge.

I believe ROM is actually trying to listen to some of our suggestions/complaints. For example, people have complained forever at how horrible plussing jewels are, and the new elven jewels are not only cheaper but give out more rubies also. Of course, they might have made the success rates even worse and we will never know. LOL Anyway, some people have been very vocal against instances being only burns, so maybe the K/W nerf is their idea of giving us what we asked for. Or maybe they just realized they went too far the first time on the buff and want to scale it back.

Quoted from "radeon"

I believe ROM is actually trying to listen to some of our suggestions/complaints. For example, people have complained forever at how horrible plussing jewels are, and the new elven jewels are not only cheaper but give out more rubies also. Of course, they might have made the success rates even worse and we will never know. LOL Anyway, some people have been very vocal against instances being only burns, so maybe the K/W nerf is their idea of giving us what we asked for. Or maybe they just realized they went too far the first time on the buff and want to scale it back.

Did 2 rings, a shield and a pair of boots. 0-12 not a single fail or drop in level. Take it for what it is worth.

I have a guildie who tried to plus a 119 crafted 1 handed axe today, 20 jewels and now it's +2 awesome plussing rate i tell you, never been better than that

Tried to get to +4 and it took 8 elven jewels.

+6 jewels have always been abysmal, especially if you try to go higher than 4 (Though 4 itself can be ridiculously difficult). +12 jewels are 99% perfect until you hit about 10 then they start to fail and drop repeatedly.

Everyone knows plussing jewels are the biggest sham in this game.

And we're officially off-topic.

Back on point, people.

Quoted from "Tuulikki"

The biggest issue IMHO is the paradigm shift from the earliest chapters in this game to where we are now. There is an overwhelmingly pervasive expectation that every player needs only the latest and greatest OD HM gear and that anything else is unacceptable. Likewise, too many players are trying to gear themselves to run hard mode instances when their guild and/or group of online friends is not now nor will they ever in the near future be hard mode capable. Part of that problem lies in the alternatives. Too many guilds, again IMHO, try to rush from easy mode to hard mode, skipping normal mode all together. The proof is the lack of normal mode gear showing up in the AH. That leaves an enormous disparity between HM gear and shell/crafted/etc. The gap between normal and HM gear is NOT nearly as significant and would suffice for most players.

K, first of all, its funny. Were in the same guild and you may or may not even ever run with me. Let me first introduce myself formally for once. I'm Stoneforge from Govinda. Now I've recently come back from a long vacation form the game. (I Participated in the first and last week of the level 90 patch.) I am wearing healer gear for my P/Chmp healer. (BURN ME AT THE STAKE) My necklace is the level 70 Rogue one, with all Dex/Pa... ETC... Why? Because it simply does the job. It provides the crit I need. I have a OD level 87 at +4, and I can't get it plussed. For any price. NO ONE will plus it, even hardcore diamond buyers, are like NOPE! Not plussing. (Stoppping this discussion here.) But it does the job for me, I have no complaints. I have run PoMH and GoH with my guild. 0 Issues, besides normal deaths because someone forgot to SA, or something. You Don't need endgame gear to run endgame content. EXCEPT(Now heres the exception) You are the DPS. In which case everything falls on your shoulders. You need the DMG and The attack to kill the boss. The DPS characters need to be statted and geared to the fk'ing teeth. I mean Stupid gearing. Hell M/W has to have 2 decent gear sets.

@ftwoplay: I see the irony but hopefully can add some perspective.. It's not just that I don't run much content on Govinda, I hardly ever run anything on Govinda anymore. That has nothing to do with our guild which is by far one of the better guilds I've seen in RoM. Long story short, Govinda's economy is just too expensive for me right now. I DO still log on to do dailies and the occasional mini-game though and will be sure to say "hey" next time I see you online in guild chat

Back on topic. I don't think we're reading the same posts if you're under the assumption everyone unconditionally agrees the K/W nerf was over the top. My statement was actually the opposite. I'm totally ok with the nerf IF - that's the key word of course - it is part of a much bigger adjustment to how instances are run in RoM. IF there is a bigger picture plan to reduce the number of boss burns and enforce more strategy then I don't have an issue with the ability being nerfed because I don't think it was ever really intended to be the "easy button" for boss burning it had become. On the other hand, IF it turns out someone just made the call to nerf K/W (and D/S for that matter) with no intention of changing anything to do with the way we approach instances then I definitely agree that the nerf(s) were completely uncalled for and should be reverted back.

Good discussion folks

The Last part of my last post, alluded to the fact, whether we like it or not, we are coming to a point in the game where burns are either going to become niceties, but won't kill. Or non existent, and we will just do the bosses 100% a non burn way, such as max sustain/heals/etc... We either have to Change or RoM does. Because at this rate, we simply will not be able to burn the level 100 Instance. Not even PPK. The EU MIGHT be able to because of sigils. But I mean, were close to the limit. Over here on Govinda. We don't have Hot stew... I mean were down to sheer number of debuffs. And we ain't got no free room in a endgame run. Hell we even had a nice Bteam'er help out for a few PomH's. Simply because we had a DPS Dc on us. I've been saying since level 80, something will come to a head at level 100. The way we play the game will change.

As for the K/W nerf... I simply can't foresee the game changing to a sustain battle for bosses. Although lots of classes have things for this, see the P/M mana restore. Etc... I think the K/W nerf was simply because everyone was using them, to the point of abuse. Everybody had one endgame... Why? Because they're simply the best. By a huge margin. They still are. Just the margin has shrunk. I don't know what they were trying to accomplish TBH. It seems like madness, or randomness. Or both by the person in charge of the decision.

I think Kanu was/is too op, so they nerfed him or something like that rest collateral

Change and the ability to adapt to current standards/rules/policies is hard on some peeps. Especially when it isn't known why that change was made.

If, for example, some skill was in place for quite some time and all of a sudden it appears randomly nerfed with no explanation as to why, then people will most certainly complain (e.g. like this thread). If the relevant skill wasn't designed properly to begin with, then shame on RoM management for not putting a patch in quickly to address it. In most major companies, this can even be categorized as an 'exploit' that gets top priority to be addressed. If it is instead a bug on the amount of nerf, then shame on the developers for implementing it incorrectly and shame on QA for not catching it. Something like…"The skill was supposed to be <x> seconds duration, but it got modified to <y> seconds instead."

Now, I don't play K/W, but I don't understand their intentions with this change. If there happens to be a valid reason, then players will need to adapt appropriately to these new standards. I think what the players want to know is...why was it changed to what it is at now? If there is lack of official communication as to why, companies can get a bunch of ticked off customers (in this case players) who no longer will tolerate these sorts of abrupt changes and move on. Historically, RoM management has made ‘out of the blue’ changes before without any real reasoning behind the change (e.g. Honor Point Cap nerf anyone?). So, it will surprise me if they actually officially respond as to why this particular change was performed. When I mean 'they,' I mean RoM management and not the GMs.

Buffs knights in general. enough said.