Runes of Magic US / AU

Yes and no.

In theory the AH is a great mechanism for trading diamonds - however in practice such limitations as the 500 auction limit make it completely unworkable.

Largely this could be completely alleviated by binding diamonds sold through the AH - stopping speculation and severely limiting the point of manipulating the price and/or market, but I don't don't if this fail safe would be enough to convince the powers that be to re-implement the AH trade.

Partly here the issue is that we players have zero idea of the real and exhaustive reasons and troubles that caused the removal of dias from the AH in the first place. It is hard to think up a solution to a problem that is not properly defined. For example it could be that the possible damage done by one quitting end-gamer with current levels of gold is just too great. One disaffected player could clear out the AH completely, disrupting the economy hugely. Maybe that isn't an issue at all, or at least no worry but we don't know. The amount of gold in the system now is quite staggering. At least Cedric should start making some in-roads on that at least.

A question that no one hast askered yet. Can we still exchange ingame gold fer Runes of Magic game cards? Be this still permissible, Dio?

stupid question: but since FAI was absorbed by feu and our in game ToS still says FAI doesn't that mean that the current in game ToS is outdated and technically nothing is bannannable since the game is now owned/operated by feu, not fai?

Quoted from "Nytefall;567739"

This is not permissible - in a very real sense, it is gold-buying.

Just like zeevex, you're crossing the in-game/reality barrier with your transaction.



FAI still exists as a legal entity - the Terms of Service is still in force as a result.



It is a Terms of Service violation and makes you, our players, guilty of the same things we eliminate gold seller accounts for.

It was never allowed under the Terms of Service - FAI had made the decision to not punish players committing this violation in this way.

It really should not have been "given the okay" to begin with, according to the legal department.

Regarding detrimental effects on the game economy - I'm sure there will be a few pains as things adjust, but I am not yet convinced that they will be as bad as everyone's worst fears.

It was detrimental enough for me personally to stop caring about running endgame instances, to stop trying to gear, and to only log on for siege and to do the title event.

My only remaining motivation is i have a handful of guildies who still play semi actively who i feel the need to help and take care of. Your repeated poor decisions in both the legal, customer support, and development areas has driven me and most of my friends from the game.

Quoted from "thebadtouch09;567754"

It was detrimental enough for me personally to stop caring about running endgame instances, to stop trying to gear, and to only log on for siege and to do the title event.

My only remaining motivation is i have a handful of guildies who still play semi actively who i feel the need to help and take care of. Your repeated poor decisions in both the legal, customer support, and development areas has driven me and most of my friends from the game.

i agree........ i am very well end game geared and being able to buy zeevex i was getting diamonds and rubys and able to care for my house energy, granted u now added 15 dias a day npc, ur now forcing me to buy my diamond items from someone then for the same price buy my ruby items that they got free.....

i will keep my current gear and run my current instances and play siege war, so gl with your update cuz im no longer supporting this game

i have 6 tickets that customer server neglects, i have 1 ticket with screen shots where u told me to delete my item shop items, screen shots show in chat the items deleted and now u wont replace telling me thet the screen shot is not accurate proof

where else u think my mount went that was there....... cant trade it helloooooo

Katalan hit the nail on the head.

There needs to be something to replace the functionality of trading for Zeevex.

Find us a solution, Gameforge.

My suggestion was dias back in the AH. If a video game can successfully pull off a real money AH, it should be possible to take another look at in-game currency in our AH.

Darwec's suggestion would be just fine though. If we could gift dias the way we gift cash shop items, it would allow much freer trade.

Look, I did write a dissertation on this. I said what I wanted to say, and it's still in that thread if anyone is masochistic enough to go look for it.

Bottom line: I understand why they don't allow Zeevex trades. But, something has to give to improve free trade in RoM. We want to give you our money to buy what we want when we want it. LET US!

I totally agree with the game protecting the people spending real money on this game over the players who charge the outrageous prices for gear and stats in game. I have heard so many times "I'm getting paid for the time I have put into making this character to be able to do the endgame stuff."

Gameforge not only has to produce a viable game for us to play but also protect new and inexperienced players from being literally taken advantage of in game. While I do have my issues with the game, for example perfect plussers only being offered by rubies now, I do commend Gameforge for wanting to protecting it's players from being taken advantage of.

The problem is most people have lost the art of bartering, that is where the problem lies. Somewhere along the line the person that has farmed the virtual item thinks they have control of the sale, which clearly should never be the case. When diamonds aren't on sale 2000 zeveex tokens are worth 18.8 million in gold and when double it with a 100% sale so 37.6 million at 40,000k per diamond. That is a joke considering what the prices are in the auction house for easy farmed stats and lesser gear. And lets not get started about an endgame item. So I for one am thankful Gameforge is enforcing this rule to protect players from being taken advantage.

although i dont tyhink that removeing zeevex trades from the game is going to change alot.i do however want to say that without endgames that are 100% ftp this game will still function.without the p2p players there is no game(no money coming in results in game being discontinued).alot of what i see on these pages is arguments that one of these groups cant survive without the other.managment is going to do what they think will bring in the most money.so explain to me how ftp are bringing in the money?this is a vicious circle .and to keep rehashing this will do no good.not all players are greedy some are just ftp (and very nice people).the actioms of a few have destroyed the reputations of endgame players.its a game have fun and try to make your server the best it could possibly be.

the "f2p" endgamers still need to buy dias somewhere = frogster/gameforge/whatever still gets money.
the diamonds to sustain endgame need to come from somewhere, whether it be a bunch of lower lvl players or endgamers, at endgame people need a rediculous amount of dias...so just because they have the gold to buy all the dias they want with it, doesn't mean that the diamonds are coming out of thin air(dia npc does not give close to the amount of dias that endgamer's need), the dias are being bought from the RoM webpage, or cards, so the dias are still being bought.

Quoted from "timthum;568022"

although i dont tyhink that removeing zeevex trades from the game is going to change alot.i do however want to say that without endgames that are 100% ftp this game will still function.without the p2p players there is no game(no money coming in results in game being discontinued).alot of what i see on these pages is arguments that one of these groups cant survive without the other.managment is going to do what they think will bring in the most money.so explain to me how ftp are bringing in the money?this is a vicious circle .and to keep rehashing this will do no good.not all players are greedy some are just ftp (and very nice people).the actioms of a few have destroyed the reputations of endgame players.its a game have fun and try to make your server the best it could possibly be.

Endgame is where dia demand is highest. While some endgamers (typically those in guilds that can be considered self-sustaining "gear cartels") are f2p, they consume a massive amount of diamonds. This effect can't be ignored.

Those diamonds, as Cike pointed out above me, are coming from somewhere, not out of Cedric or a vacuum. They buy them from players. Which means that they, as the ultimate consumer of said diamonds, are driving GameForge's bottom line, no matter who is doing the actual buying.

F2P endgamers can't be dismissed.

Let me quote myself (I know you all want me to), from my dissertation post, which can be found here (if you have a strong stomach and masochistic tendencies): http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthr…6563#post566563

Quoted

Well, the number one factor in our economy is the publisher of RoM, be it FA, FEU or GF. Actions they take directly impact our economy in fundamental ways. The second most important factor in the RoM economy is Runewaker. Content has an effect on our economy. Good content drives it forward, unappealing content slows it down. The third factor (and really, the least important, I think) is the players themselves.

Oftentimes, players are tempted to blame economic troubles on "greedy" people- which people are "greedy" depends on which camp the player belongs to. Dia sellers typically feel that gear cartel members are "greedy", gear cartel members feel dia sellers are the "greedy" ones. Arguing about it is pointless. "Greed" is a worthless concept in free market microeconomics, which is what we have in RoM.

No one has more responsibility for our economy at this time than Gameforge. This isn't real life- we don't have to struggle with concepts like taxes and the public good, or politics. Gameforge is directly in control of all of our assets. They set the prices on diamonds directly, they control the availability of desirable items and sales prices. They have all the control they need to either drive our economy forward or to cause it to stagnate, which is what they have done.

Limiting which currencies we can trade with, like Zeevex, will have an effect on our economy. Limiting access to items needed to progress (like ABL's and plussing gems) has a direct and measurable effect on our economy. Limiting sales has perhaps the most obvious and fundamental effect on our economy.

In plain English, don't be a playa hata. If you want to point fingers at the people most responsible for the state of our economy, the GameForge sales department is ----> that way. In Berlin somewhere.

They set the prices, they set the availability of the stuff we need in the cash shop, they decide what goes on sale when, they cause spikes in our economy when they withhold or release items we need.

There's absolutely no point blaming players, since they have no control over anything but the prices they set on gear or dias. They don't decide how many dias they need to progress, and they don't decide how much RL money those dias will cost, and they can't buy items they need unless they are actually in the cash shop. Only GameForge decides all that.

That's what our economy is actually based on.

Unless/until GameForge starts looking at how badly a lack of free trade in RoM is effecting our economy and takes steps to improve things, how much or how little players charge for gear/stats/dias/whatever, won't matter. The economy will simply continue to stagnate. Bad economy leads directly to low population, which makes a bad economy worse, which cause even lower population, and the cycle just keeps spinning downward.

the thing is there are guilds out there that are ftp,and no matter what you say they are not spending the money.i know of one individual that has 100k dias and didnt pay for them with money instead he or she used zeevex.now i know someone spent real money.my point is that like many things in life a few can screw it up for the rest.

Quoted from "timthum;568036"

the thing is there are guilds out there that are ftp,and no matter what you say they are not spending the money.i know of one individual that has 100k dias and didnt pay for them with money instead he or she used zeevex.now i know someone spent real money.my point is that like many things in life a few can screw it up for the rest.

Removing zeevex from the game makes it so that i cant buy zeevex off another player. That player has no reason to buy zeevex anymore, because they cant get gold for the zeevex they buy. The people who used to buy zeevex with real money and sell for gold now will have a harder time getting gold and gearing. End gamers will have a harder time getting diamonds.

Everything from drillers, to plussing gems, and puris will be harder to acquire.

It will be harder to unbind and sell gear or stats.

The game just got harder for everyone involved.

Quoted from "timthum;568036"

the thing is there are guilds out there that are ftp,and no matter what you say they are not spending the money.i know of one individual that has 100k dias and didnt pay for them with money instead he or she used zeevex.now i know someone spent real money.my point is that like many things in life a few can screw it up for the rest.

Tim.

Let me try this again using very small words.

You say that a few are screwing it up for the rest, and you say that this person you know has 100k dias and didn't buy any of them himself, but that you also know "someone spent real money."

That's the point. How is he "screwing it up for the rest" when someone spent real money?

Those diamonds didn't just show up out of thin air into his account. Someone bought them. Someone paid GameForge a lot of real life money for those diamonds.

Lots of diamonds get bought, and a whole lot of them get traded for gear or gold. Why on earth is that a bad thing? In what universe and from what point of view is that a bad thing?

GameForge is getting money equal to 100k of diamonds, they are happy.

The player with 100k diamonds has 100k diamonds, he is happy.

The players that traded real life money for items he had that they wanted got what they wanted, they are happy.

So why are you, or anyone else, unhappy?

Because you don't have 100k diamonds, or the money in RL to spend on diamonds, or the ability to go get items to sell for 100k diamonds?

That's not anyone's fault. Being a have-not and resenting the have's is a natural way to feel. Especially in real life. But this isn't real life, and unlike life, if we're unhappy here, we can just play a different game. No one is making anyone play RoM, and not having a Shint's dagger is a lot more bearable than not having a roof or food to eat, or even a nice car to drive.

It's not logical to disdain a player who can afford to sell, or buy, gear. They aren't harming anyone, they are the basis of our economy in RoM. They help keep the game afloat by stimulating diamond sales, and they help keep the economy strong by trading.

So, yes. There are guilds out there that are free to play. No, they are not spending any money. But someone is, and as long as GameForge gets their money, why would they care? And since they aren't hurting you either, why do you?

So not cool, I love love love Zeevex, I buy them here when there's a random dia sale but unfortunately around here where I live, they only comes in cards of $10 & $20....meanwhile the extremely lucky people who live near 7-11 have the chance of buying $2 cards given that each card regardless of the amount gives the same giftcodes. I LIVE ALMOST 500 MILES AWAY FROM THE NEAREST 7-11. FOR $100, I CAN GET ONLY AT MOST 10 GIFT CODES LOCALLY MEANWHILE I COULD'VE HAD 50 GIFT CODES IF I HAD ACCESS TO THE $2 CARDS. *pouts* This is extremely lame!

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;568049"

Tim.

Let me try this again using very small words.

You say that a few are screwing it up for the rest, and you say that this person you know has 100k dias and didn't buy any of them himself, but that you also know "someone spent real money."

That's the point. How is he "screwing it up for the rest" when someone spent real money?

Those diamonds didn't just show up out of thin air into his account. Someone bought them. Someone paid GameForge a lot of real life money for those diamonds.

Lots of diamonds get bought, and a whole lot of them get traded for gear or gold. Why on earth is that a bad thing? In what universe and from what point of view is that a bad thing?

GameForge is getting money equal to 100k of diamonds, they are happy.

The player with 100k diamonds has 100k diamonds, he is happy.

The players that traded real life money for items he had that they wanted got what they wanted, they are happy.

So why are you, or anyone else, unhappy?

Because you don't have 100k diamonds, or the money in RL to spend on diamonds, or the ability to go get items to sell for 100k diamonds?

That's not anyone's fault. Being a have-not and resenting the have's is a natural way to feel. Especially in real life. But this isn't real life, and unlike life, if we're unhappy here, we can just play a different game. No one is making anyone play RoM, and not having a Shint's dagger is a lot more bearable than not having a roof or food to eat, or even a nice car to drive.

It's not logical to disdain a player who can afford to sell, or buy, gear. They aren't harming anyone, they are the basis of our economy in RoM. They help keep the game afloat by stimulating diamond sales, and they help keep the economy strong by trading.

So, yes. There are guilds out there that are free to play. No, they are not spending any money. But someone is, and as long as GameForge gets their money, why would they care? And since they aren't hurting you either, why do you?

ok so a few people are making real cash selling zeevex that they did not pay for look on ebay ,holy crap why is it hard to see this is not making any money for runewakerforge. im sorry fan that you misunderstood me .so the
few players are the ones to blame for this . its not hard to see why zeevex is now a bannable offence .

I did look on Ebay. Only one seller, set only to sell zeevex judging by the name. Registered over a year ago, with feedback of 25. High volume of sales it is not. And, then, of course, the "zeevex games mostly suck" argument. If it was obtained from ROM, it is likely going back to ROM.

Perhaps they are not selling on ebay, then. Craigslist is a popular alternative. Tried three of the biggest cities in the country. Zero hits.

Meh

Quoted from "vfwiffo;568073"

I did look on Ebay. Only one seller, set only to sell zeevex judging by the name. Registered over a year ago, with feedback of 25. High volume of sales it is not. And, then, of course, the "zeevex games mostly suck" argument. If it was obtained from ROM, it is likely going back to ROM.

Perhaps they are not selling on ebay, then. Craigslist is a popular alternative. Tried three of the biggest cities in the country. Zero hits.

Meh

"Zeevex games mostly suck" was why FA looked the other way, or at least I think that's a logical deduction to make.

GameForge, being the i-dotting and t-crossing Germans that they are, don't seem to appreciate qualifiers like "mostly" and "likely."

And I'm sorry if I whacked you for the wrong thing, Tim, but now I'm just confused. What few people ruined it for everyone then? People buying Zeevex from Zeevex on Ebay? Or that "man" who stirred up such a ruckus on Reni?

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;568077"

"Zeevex games mostly suck" was why FA looked the other way, or at least I think that's a logical deduction to make.

GameForge, being the i-dotting and t-crossing Germans that they are, don't seem to appreciate qualifiers like "mostly" and "likely."

And I'm sorry if I whacked you for the wrong thing, Tim, but now I'm just confused. What few people ruined it for everyone then? People buying Zeevex from Zeevex on Ebay? Or that "man" who stirred up such a ruckus on Reni?

I blame Mandrakes for this change. Yepyep.

Let me ask these questions again :

Does Zeevex belong to Gameforge or Frogster?? NO
What is the percentage given to Gameforge for every Zeevex sold?? NOT MUCH
Does selling Zeevex helps Gameforge make more money?? NO

They need to sell their currency = DIAMONDS. They sell by their website = 100% profit for them.

I know of a lot of nice endgamers, that take time to show lower levels how to do certain instances and learn. Take the time and enjoy the game, anyone rememebers how to do this?

Did endgamers run GCH and TOSHH with full eternity and bygone stats?? NO
People ingame should learn that they need to level, gearup and stats as per what they can get from said instances.

Learn the said instances, with your guild, guildies and friends.

F2P are so intant of saying it cost them a lot of diamonds to run endgame stuff, why should we care? we don't force you to do them and when they put stuff in AH at 77 dura and 125M, we should be praising them and say TYVM? hell no.

I know a bunch of players that since RT, they didn't spend a dime on the game, does that make Gameforge money ? NO
Maybe noobs and new players will buy diamonds to sell to get gold, but how much gold do they need to get RT fully statted gear to play? 200M? 225M, how many diamonds does that make? around 7500 diamonds, so they have to spend 800 dollars for gear that will be obsolete within 2 weeks.

Instead of wanting to be level 72/72/72 quick to buy your gear from an endgamer, take your time, have fun, watch and learn and run with good people. I gear up as i go along, help other players in every way i can. I buy my own diamonds, sell them cheap to guildies and friends. Stop QQ'uing about Zeevex and think that this is a business. No income = no server, no player, no game.

Maybe people buying diamonds and selling to F2P makes them money, but who does it serve really?? endgamers. The new player have them saying we will run you threw stuff, get you gear and blablabla. Some i know will do it, others are just using those new players since they have diamonds, sad, but reality.

/Close this thread already, buy your own diamonds. And yes selling gold for Zeevex, the Zeevex buyer can spend it on other games and all,not Runes of Magic, so please stop with this crap. Gameforge is doing an awesome job.

TYVM