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1

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 2:42am

Mana stone creation method?

I had the idea of creating mana stones by making a bunch of toons and using the free AT charges you get. The reason for this is that I need 3 t10 stones for a sword I'm making and don't have much gold and can't afford the charges in the item shop. So my question is, is it against the rules to make an account, make 6 characters, use all the AT charges, and then delete all the characters and do it again?

L3g3nd

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2

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 2:48am

Man, you'd have to create like 900 characters -.-
Err why go through all that pain?

3

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 2:49am

It is very grindy, but yeah, people have been doing this for ages. That is why 10k XP orbs sell so well. People use them to level toons to 10 (well, actually more than 11, but 10 is enough) without questing or almost any combat.

3 T10s is almost 3300 charges, and that assumes you have access to limo+ belts. You realize how many alts you need to get that many charges?
-- Rustyx --- 92R / 92S / 92M on Reni (Guild KnightShift). Yes, running the new FOTM R/M, cause I am not elf enough to be WD/S.

Oh, and people who have more than 3 classes are clinically insane.


4

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 2:50am

it wouldn't be that many toons, besides it better than paying $50 for all the charges. I'm just wondering if this is against the rules or not

L3g3nd

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5

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 3:08am

Ok fine... it's 330 toons since you get 10 free charges.
I doubt it's against the rules and even if it is, I doubt RoM will do anything about it cuz like Rustyx said, people been doing it for ages.

I just don't recommend it. Honestly, people get $50 an hour at work. ONE hour. Takes like 2 months to make 330 toons and use the charges. =/

YomanROM

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6

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 3:30am

its allowed if you do it without using bots ofc.

And yes its a grind-fest, but at some point with heavy inflation i was bored enough and did it together with a friend - and we even ran into issues with support (until i wrote them basically the exact same explanation im writing here now) and a ran across a GM who wouldnt believe we were not botting until we answered him from every character and showed him a screen (and told him where to find us if he needs to further check anything, but in the meantime we would like to waste less time and grind more)

but dont mass-register all the accounts needed for the alts at once in a row (yes i made 40 valid email addresses for it... like alt01@provider.com alt02@provider.com .... alt40@provider.com :)) , as this may result in an alert and auto-block and you'll have to deal with support to get them unblocked again (which they perfectly did for the the first 3 accounts i came around the corner with but they became suspicious after i asked whether i had to send the same email with the same request from the other 30 accounts too :D - i explained to them what i need the accounts for and what i was going to do with all those characters and got them all unblocked with the hint to play by the rules and be prepared for checks because stuff like this was highly unlikely, but it worked out well, i just wrote them the explicit explanation of what i was going to do why and where and it was good - had i registered the accounts with a bit more delay i maybe just couldve skipped this step :P)

i did it in Chapter IV the following way, with 2 people (one doing the grinding the other one logistics and having the insane PC to be able to have RoM running 8 times with like a 400x400 window and the lowest setting possible without sound (actually we simply just deleted sound.fdb because at that time we noticed a huge difference between "sound set to disabled" and "no sound files exist" in terms of RAM usage).

Source code

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Player1 logged in 8 Chars from 8 different accounts (thats why we need so many accounts with chars in advance).
Player2 gets whispered with the chars names, invites into group/raid and openes up a portal from the spawnpoint of human characters to below the bridge in Lipuden Valley (Redhill Mountain, southeast corner of the map... where the strange event is)
Player1 ported all 8 chars through one after another (the loading screen took like ages).
Player2 grinds all those 8 Chars to level10 at once by killing the mobs in the general area (mind you, Level67 mobs with Level67 Cap by then...).
Player2 opens up a portal to Varanas class hall
Player1 ports all the characters through.
(Player2 ports to the spawnpoint of new human characters meanwhile)
Player1 talks to the Phirius merchant will all chars which will grant 10 charges and the arcane transmutor.
Player1 sets 7 chars to follow the first one and runs all the way to the varanas mailbox (or if youre into taking the risk of another loading screen, use the portal maiden ... but beware of crit errors).
Player1 logs out all the 8 chars at the mailbox.
Player1 logs in 8 fresh chars, GOTO START. 


Do that ~40 times for 3xt10 with t4 belts (3200 charges). (Cost in our case: a lot of time, nerves and 80 portal runes which were at 39 diamonds for 10pcs or something back then ...~312 diamonds. instead of 3200+)

AFTER you have your charges the fun part begins. You need to distribute all the belts you need on all the chars, use up the charges, and send the stones around and around to tier them up. this is probably a mathematical problem which could be optimized , but we were too lazy for that and had Player1 login some chars again and Player2 mail 8 belts per char resulting in 2xt5 + 2x t4 per char, Player1 would mail them forward along the way he needed them. We did that mostly nights because of server performance and loading times for logging in lots of chars. Player1 probably needs Fusion+ a Mailaddon like UMM , Player2 atleast UMM+Storemultibuy ;)

System stays the same, just with a right spot in either Tergothen Bay or Rorazan it might be faster now to get them to Level10.

Or you can spend some gold and buy their XP... but we did it the hard way (and my main char gained some TP along the way).

EDIT: seems only okay to do so on german and european servers for whatever stupid reason. make that 6 ppl working together for USA because apparently the User Agreement on login insists on a 5 account maximum per player. But only for the US version, lol. Or switch to US-Spanish, this one does not have such crappy UA ... (so bascially everyone with enUS is f....d)

See: http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthr…ll=1#post562823

7

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 5:22am

Holy cow, Yoman. This is freaking epic. Total misuse of the time, of course, but hella impressive. I am speechless. I bet even Fan might be.
-- Rustyx --- 92R / 92S / 92M on Reni (Guild KnightShift). Yes, running the new FOTM R/M, cause I am not elf enough to be WD/S.

Oh, and people who have more than 3 classes are clinically insane.


8

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 8:17am

Yoman...holy crap...I though I was good at this kind of stuff, well...my hats off to you man. That's amazing O.o

9

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 8:19am

*Visioning Frogster Servers smoking, and making fizzle pop sounds*

Haha, wow. You totally got too much time on your hands.

Just want to add, I know it may have been going on for ages. But honestly it sounds kinda exploitative. I somehow don't think that's what they had in mind for those 10 free charges. I'm glad its not my decision to make, and I'm sure everyone else is too..

Kefkai

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10

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 9:24am

You know, you guys really should cut corners, AT charges are now 100 phirus each, every alt you should make into an elf and roll through that one elven island daily, mount go to class hall unlock cube repeat to infinity, that way you get 20 charges per alt instead of only 10.

There are alternative dailies but that one is fairly fast.

11

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 9:42am

I did this once over a year ago. 3 t10s, alts taken one at a time through Heffner (took ~5-8 minutes for each to hit 10). It was horrible, and honestly the grind for those was one of the things that burned me out. It pretty much made me swear off doing charge alts forever >.>.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.


camagic

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12

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 10:00am

@yomanrom, and anyone else for that matter

You are legally only allowed a max of 5 accounts according to the User Agreement for american servers. The european servers user agreement does not specifiy a number, but GMs have specifically stated that frogster allows only 5 accounts.

But that still allows for 1 main toon and 39 total alts, which can easily(-ish) make required 10Ts.

As kafkai points out, it is even cheaper to just have the same alts do the 10 dailys, instead of making new trash alts. There are two main ones: a daily on elven island to get a water stone, and there is a daily in heffner to give a potion to three sick npcs. I see quite often charaters named (blah, blah)iii log out and then (blah, blah)iv log in and run the very short course completing these two dailys.
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13

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 5:49pm

I'm not sure I fully understood the method - but if I understand correctly, each alt only gets 10 free arcane transmuter charges, at some particular level (10?). Couldn't the alts be deleted and recreated after use? That would reduce the number of accounts absolutely required, though reducing the efficiency of plevelling them (fewer alts being leveled at the same time).

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14

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 6:31pm

Quoted from "kobnach;562609"

I'm not sure I fully understood the method - but if I understand correctly, each alt only gets 10 free arcane transmuter charges, at some particular level (10?). Couldn't the alts be deleted and recreated after use? That would reduce the number of accounts absolutely required, though reducing the efficiency of plevelling them (fewer alts being leveled at the same time).


You could do that, BUT you're then hit with the 24 hour waiting period before the alt is actually deleted and you are able to create a new one in its place.

15

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 8:23pm

Just something to help you out with so you get idea what you need in cost of gold mana stones ect.


http://zurhidon.net/at/calc

This is safe, I use it all the time to figure what i need

16

Friday, August 3rd 2012, 9:04pm

Hmm, is that how Twohandeddeath on Osha got his T15 weapon?

YomanROM

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17

Saturday, August 4th 2012, 2:11am

I did never again care if there is or was a better method, as we did the whole crap only once. My friend does not play RoM anymore and i never found anyone insane and bored enough to try this.

There could be better methods, and if youre going to grind(!) you may aswell use Tomb of 7 Heroes easymode. should get you 8xlevel10 after what? the first two beetles?...

i dont know how long it takes to quest(!) a character from 1 to 10 on elven island, but we did this a year ago during the massive inflation, and it was certainly not worth it to keep those level 10 chars with 10charges@300 phirius coins (which means doing dailies 3 times on 320 chars...)



Quoted from "camagic;562558"

@yomanrom, and anyone else for that matter

You are legally only allowed a max of 5 accounts according to the User Agreement for american servers. The european servers user agreement does not specifiy a number, but GMs have specifically stated that frogster allows only 5 accounts.


i disagree atleast in the bold part. i cant check the other because the terms of use link is dead on the mainpage.
And multiclienting was explicitly allowed ages ago by Silberfuchs himself as long no external automation is used and you're playing yourself (so you actually control the clients not some other program).

It may be uncommon, but not *forbidden*.
because i actually got clearance from support back then.
okay, maybe i just flooded them with work and it was an easy way to get rid of me (i could have just ignored it and create additional accounts in a slower pace...), but after copypasting the same email asking for unblock after 3 or 4 accounts i just added a sentence "do i really need to send this email again for <account#5....account#40> because i made a lot of accounts for alt'ing".

(remember: i created 40 valid email adresses, too. those exist until today, i just tried 3. just did not find the one i argued with support from yet, but the "Registration successful" mails are still there :D if i find it, i may just upload it to pastebin - but ofc it was in german) Those accounts were created almost exactly a year ago, 15th August 2011.

The answer was a bit like "uhm, did you just say 40 accounts? im not going to do that (unblocking) just right now for the other accounts, thats some insane amount, what in all hell if not botting are you needing those for?"

(Note: they said not "no im not going to do it anyway, its too much and not allowed." They asked for the purpose. So i either could have started over creating more accounts or just tried my luck in argueing ... i tried argueing, mostly because i was sick of creating new email adresses over and over again - working ones, mind you, not 10minutemail.com ).

So i told them what i was going to do and why i need that much characters, pretty much in the same way i explained it on the first page here. Took them a day or two, but after that they replied that all my accounts mentioned should be unblocked in a couple of minutes and that it's ok as long i really dont use 3rd-party stuff because that would be against TOU/ and that they would probably check me.

(Some other arguments except the pure description were:
a) ingame economy sucks atm. Since we're unable to buy these things for diamonds (because noone sells any) and its a free-2-play game where its a matter of choice to invest either time or money, we chose time. We cant buy the charges for ingame gold atm, so we invest actual playtime.

b) the 24h deletion time on characters and not being able to have characters on the SAME account online simultaneously. Were it not for this, one account would have been enough (farm 8 to lvl10, open charges, use charges, mail stones to main, delete, create new chars...).

c) the total amount of alts results in the sheer amount of charges needed for 3xt10. would that be less like suggested ages ago and forwarded to the developer...etc pp.(*note to self: and not forwarded to /dev/null like usual :p */note*)
d) referred (had some URls to that stuff lying around) to official blue statements (which were ages old, but never reverted... in the forums that using multiple accounts in such a way is perfectly fine as long no 3rd party crap is involved etc bla. )

So we did what we did and except a single GM who at first did not really believe we were not botting (his argument was like "i do not know of any machine who can run 8 rom clients, so you must be bots.") noone ever complained.
He was satisfied after he got into actual chat conversations with every of those 8 characters and my friend uploaded a screenshot showing the 8 rom clients at once. We even told him "if you want to see live what we're doing just come to Lipuden Valley by the bridge, that's where we're going to spend the next couple o' hours doing what we just did" and gave him the ticket number so he could read the discussion we had with support already. Maybe he visited us with his invisibility on, maybe not. I dont know. We never ran into any complaints from anyone after that.

If they all did not know what they were doing, its not my problem. I told everyone who asked what the stuff was about and everyone who is supposed to give a F about it (like the one or even more than one person in support who decided after our explanation to unblock the alts and let us do what we told them we want to do, and the GM who talked to us because 8 chars in a row with random names ofcourse look suspicious) was fine with it after explanation, so we did it. period.

PS: damn from which email did i argue with support? i just checked 001-010 and nothing yet :D (but we had a forwarding to a central address which i have forgotten the login data for -_-))

But as i said, it was a year ago, there may be more effecticve methods today, we were BORED back then.

Kefkai

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18

Saturday, August 4th 2012, 2:20am

Quoted from "YomanROM;562814"

Your long post


I can verify that in the terms of service for the US side it says you're only allowed to have 5 accounts.

regentego

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19

Saturday, August 4th 2012, 2:59am

Quoted from "montanamick;562723"

Hmm, is that how Twohandeddeath on Osha got his T15 weapon?



This is the same guy who jumped our gates in siege, there is also a YouTube video of his handy work.

YomanROM

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20

Saturday, August 4th 2012, 3:01am

you have some strange rules here.

just checked directly in the files so i dont have to switch language and restart the client everytime.
us/useragreement.txt has it
eneu/useragreement.txt is totally different, so is the german version.
funny: esus/useragreement.txt does not seem to mention it either (and the text is in english, only es/useragreement.txt is actually in spanish)

(not even in "enme" which seems to aplly to middle east because it mentions "Tahadi Games" haha...)

so: yes, it is in the US user agreement which is displayed ingame before login. But only in that one, in no other. (Did i mention "something is strange around here" ?)

Frogster/Gameforge was never good in keeping stuff consistent, great example again.

lucky me i did it on my german server then. but some stuff is always strangely different for no reason here between the realms.

And still it was Silberfuchs who was Lead CM for ALL of RoM
(which is now officially Laghmara's job ... but i dont see anything about it here on the US forums ... did i mention some stuff is always strange around here?) who acknowledged multiclienting back then.

but as i said, even IF, i really dont consider it a problem when support and a GM explicitly allowed it. If in doubt, keep it to five accounts or ask support beforehand. (or play on european servers, but thats not the point...)

(Hell, even the characters i did not delete after they were finished are still there...)

----
oh and about the t15 weapon: sure as hell it was not made that way lol.

320 characters for 3xt10 is a lot?
3xt15 would be almost 80.000(!) characters just for charges ;)

(797161 charges aka 79717 characters a 10 charges :D)