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Destroying Throne through castle walls

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Boulvide

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Saturday, September 28th 2013, 7:14am

Destroying Throne through castle walls

Not sure if i'm remembering correctly or not but wasn't destroying buildings (i.e. the throne) through the castle walls deemed an exploit?
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BlankMinded

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Saturday, September 28th 2013, 7:30am

Yes, it is also highly frowned upon by the community. However, with that said, without screenshots and/or video evidence, the worst that will happen is some people say some harsh words to the player(s) in question.

Cike

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Saturday, September 28th 2013, 7:50am

actually, GF said it's frowned upon but they wouldn't do anything about it...aka it's ok to do...the players just hate it, and don't think it's a legit strategy...
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

Hipocrates

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Saturday, September 28th 2013, 7:57am

Dirty play but not against rules afaik. I remember that Kalvan said it wasn't exploiting but I think the thread was already deleted

Cike

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Saturday, September 28th 2013, 8:08am

Quoted from "Hipocrates"

Dirty play but not against rules afaik. I remember that Kalvan said it wasn't exploiting but I think the thread was already deleted

yup..
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

zidlef

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Saturday, September 28th 2013, 2:52pm

Dishonorable people will do dishonorable things, we faced our share of player doing that. No class and no respect, they call it strategy, we call it being a loser who can't play the game.

If the walls would be made solid, no chiron crap could enter and destroy it, they did upgrade the gates, guards, hopefully that will be the next issue looked upon ;-)

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saum02

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Monday, September 30th 2013, 5:37pm

nods that's bad form

frederick55

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 5:05am

yeah and maybe they will stop stuff inside the castle attacking u like flames and such lol or maybe make thunderstorm not hit u thru the ceilings and floor oh wait this is RW im sorry thats not gonna happen

Moghwn

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 9:47am

Quoted from "Cike"

actually, GF said it's frowned upon but they wouldn't do anything about it...aka it's ok to do...the players just hate it, and don't think it's a legit strategy...

On the German forums there's an official statement that destroying permanent buildings within the castle without first destroying the gates leading to that building is deemed bug exploiting and should be reported to support for further action.

bardicunderlord

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 2:34pm

spells are fine, pets are not.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "bardicunderlord" (Oct 1st 2013, 3:52pm)

Amberwave

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 3:55pm

Quoted from "bardicunderlord"

Things attack you from inside the castle (e.g.-flames, electrics, etc.) so its perfectly legit. to attack things from outside the castle.
Well, you got it part right.

Nothing inside the castle should be attacked unless you are inside the castle, unless it can attack you. Throne, off limits, flames and electrics, fair to kill.

Auros

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 4:51pm

Opinions are like bellybuttons, everybody has one. We can say things are in bad form, or dishonorable, but guess what...there are bad people out there who do not care what we think of them.

Mages say, "spells are ok, pets are not"; Wardens say, "hey, pets, gotta love them, but they do what they want to sometimes"; Tower guards and honor guard well, we have no control over what they do; Defensive towers can be used for offense...who knew? Magical castle walls that are permeable to some things and not to others....that there is the source of all these complaints.

Runewaker...Tear Down These Walls...we can rebuild them; better than before; we have the technology.
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BlankMinded

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 6:19pm

I agree that the walls themselves are the issue, but that doesn't prevent players from trying to play like they work as intended.

In regards to shooting through walls, most people here know it is not a hack of course, but the way I see it is its still unfair. Imo players should be doing their best to avoid stuff like this. With that said, it does make sense for towers to shoot through the gate -- it afterall has a ton of holes in it and should be semi-permeable.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is "allowed".

Quoted from "Moghwn"

On the German forums there's an official statement that destroying permanent buildings within the castle without first destroying the gates leading to that building is deemed bug exploiting and should be reported to support for further action.
If this isn't a strong enough indication, another example might be necessary. Once upon a time there was an instance, with some mobs in it. If you brought along a certain class, you could get an extremely powerful buff from said instance and use it to solo ANYTHING in game including bethomia hard mode. That instance is now closed. Just because it is "possible" doesn't mean one should take advantage of it....this is how I feel about shooting through walls/gates.

Some people argue spells are fine pets are not -- why? If you're going to allow players to thunderstorm a processing factory or throne to death from outside the building why can' t a pet do it? After all, wardens don't have a ranged aoe. If you're going to allow players to bypass walls, then by the same logic, the players who's classes rely on npc's (warden pets) should also be allowed to destroy said buildings, this way things are fair. As an extreme, imagine in sw a team of only wardens vs a team of only mages -- mages destroy buildings while gates are up, the wardens can't because "spells are fine pets are not".... I don't think either should be allowed to, but if you're going to argue one side, then you should at least be logical about it and be fair, not just convenient to yourself because you or your friends play mages.

Orionthehunter

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 6:22pm

In my opinion, pets and spells should not be going through walls. Flames and Electrics should not be passing through walls either. The game needs fixing. Hell I hate it when I'm sitting on top of castle after death and some mage tornados me through the ceiling. They are all exploits, the game mechanics, like semi-permeable walls should be modified to a solid one so no pets or spells can penetrate. This is probably asking too much of GF but it's worth the try :P

bardicunderlord

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 6:32pm

Wanted to take a moment to go over what damaging siege war buildings, and or players through walls or gates during siege war should be deemed as. IMO spells are perfectly acceptable. Why you ask? Well the matter of fact is that I, and my guildies can be struck by traps (e.g. - flame towers, electric towers, faces of treachery, etc.) as well as other players through the walls and gates and visa versa. I shoot in they shoot out. This is way too simple to even be called questionable in any way. It is part of the game mechanics, no hacks involved.

The one thing that I do not believe should not be able to go through the walls and attack building and or players, are the guards and the wardens pets this is a technical issue that I hope can be resolved by GF. If I, and my guildies can't walk through the walls why can they? There has to be a sense of congruence here. A wardens pet is not a spell it is a creature. It, as well as the honor guard are summoned creatures that should not be able to traverse the gates or walls. Using this should be frowned upon and hopefully changed by the devs. Now if the gate is open then both previously mentioned should be able to pass through. This makes the most sense from a devs point of view as it is the least amount of work to fix.

Auros

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 7:08pm

See....everyone has their opinion...what are you to do if their opinion differs from yours? And, the governing authority lends no guidance....Chaos I say...cats and dogs living together..what has the world come to?
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bardicunderlord

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 7:20pm

In an effort to please the majority of the players, I have to go with nothing goes through walls or gates, This will arise the question of something on top of the castle walls (traps or players), in which it should become a line of sight instance.

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 7:47pm

for spells and pets i dont care, pets are easy to kill, and spells can be countered with well placed Seawashed stones, the only thing that concerns me enough to matter is guards being aggro'd by mobs that a defense tower attacks, changing the types of mobs that guards draw aggro from would be nice, no more chaining to towers and balloon monsters, that will make them stay at their crystal towers and actually defend it from a short while (until they die by a player)
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SaitoHajime

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 8:00pm

Kindly leave RPG elements out when arguing game mechanics. It does not help any discussion at all.

I'll try to get some clarifications from either GA CM or Support on what goes and what not, but my understanding (as being a German myself so i pretty much followed the stuff for the german servers as a player before) is that any way to *get* into the castle while the gates are up and have not yet been destroyed is an exploit, period. Not much to discuss about that, I think.

What's up next is my understanding of things and how they currently are, compiled from various sources of information. Take it as guidelines or as a point of discussion, I don't claim to make actual rules out of it because that is beyond me, but so far doing it like that worked good, and without pointless drama or cheating accusations.

That's that. To the other things:

Damage through line of sight issues in both directions, well, who casts the first stone? Towers are allowed to be built on the inside and outside of the castle, by both parties, and they clearly currently ignore LoS. A warden's pet is not the same as a player is in how the game works (its an NPC controlled by the player ... as for NPCs and line of sight...ask any random instance mob what it thinks about LoS ;)). There is not much that can be done about it atm except not using classes or buildings at all which is also rather a non-option. The owner of a warden pet has control to a certain degree but to my knowledge nothing and no one is forced to be a lame duck to be shot off due some arbitrary mechanic.

A really strict view could even say that even this is an exploit but then fighting at all is an exploit, this is rather something that needs to be changed by Runewaker. Also Suggestions like immunity to the permanent buildings while the gates are up (and once destroyed, BACK up and no enemy player is within ..as hiding after gate kill is also valid) may work, but that are game changes to be executed by Runewaker.

But, a strong advice from me would be:
Leave permanent buildings alone, they don't attack or pull aggro.
There's no real excuse to attack them from the outside with anything (No, "but RPG..." is not a valid argument, sorry)
Also while a warden pet can be set to engage on being attacked , or attack the owners target, the owner is still responsible for not abusing it on intent to kill off permanent buildings within the castle walls. If one claims to not even have that bit of control over the pet, well, learn it, and do it fast, or don't use the Pet.

TLDR: A fight is a fight, but the permanent buildings don't fight and are only valid targets when you are already IN the castle. Only legit way IN the castle is through a destroyed gate.

Honor guards and similiar stuff are to be covered later.

Cike

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Tuesday, October 1st 2013, 9:35pm

Quoted from "Moghwn"

On the German forums there's an official statement that destroying permanent buildings within the castle without first destroying the gates leading to that building is deemed bug exploiting and should be reported to support for further action.

but on the US forums(here) there was an official statement saying it's frowned upon, but not punishable.

@saito: are you communicating a change in GF's official stance on the issue?
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.
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