Runes of Magic US / AU

fair point. problem is, I have to fit my ideas into a context of a game where players have already invested time and $ into gear.

Dex for all is fine, except that many don't stack it period. that would place basically all casters at a severe disadvantage.

to your point crit would have to be added to int or wis. I'd point out however that crit derived from stats would not be significant, players walking around with 10k dex would have over 100% chance unless the formula was carefully weighed.

To be honest the stats section is the weakest part of my proposal. The way things work now are so ingrained that changing what stats do would at least in the short term throw the game into chaos.

I know MK is working on a stat solution, so if others have suggestions feel free. My post is a shell of an idea, it can easily be modified as holes are found ... but at it's core the reasons for the changes are imo quite valid.

Quoted from "GnatB;355806"

I disagree that mDam and pDam should be removed. I will however agree that mAttk and pAttk should be combined into just Attack.

and I'd argue that pDef and mDef should remain as well, though I'll agree that *could* be done using a sliding scale on stamina. (or simply based on equipment) Having mobs/players weaker to one or the other adds an element of strategy.

I definitely think equipment shouldn't have equivelent mDam/pDam (or mDef/pDef) numbers. Wands should be better at nuking the heck out of mobs than they are at whacking them over the head with. Maybe cloth should be better at repelling magic attacks than chain.

(which would probably further help hybrids. If they come up against something resistant to their magical attacks, they can switch over to their physical ones, and vice versa).

Interesting take. Originally I was going to respond on how this wouldn't work, but while responding I realized how simplistically brilliant this is.

You're right, removing Mdam/Pdam presents problems with itemization and balance of items. The only thing that would differentiate weapons would be refining bonus' and the "masteries" I proposed.

Maintaining Mdam/Pdam, but converting all Ma/Pa to simply Attack would allow Hybrids to stack Attack from "natural" sources, and still deal either Mdam or Pdam as the situation requires.

I very much like this suggestion, as one of the problems with my proposal was how reomoving the Mdf/Pdf from armor presented balance issues.

Keep the feedback coming. I'll make changes accordingly if I'm able to align your suggestions with the general intent of this thread.

Wasn't sure on that 1. Only played druid briefly myself, but it makes no sense that they can use a shield and not a talisman ... either those need to be reomoved from the game or given a real purpose

Quoted from "remilafo;355971"

Wonderful post Nem! Your legacy continues undiluted!

does that make me a "Legendary" poster?

There were some holes in my original post, specifically with stats. I've attempted to address these issues by modifying the stats section.

Quoted from "Rashira34;375771"

The only thing I disagree with is the part about strength adding parry. Strength should add physical accuracy, IMO. (Or both, that would be fine. )

However, this would be somewhat addressed by having dex add physical attack for Warriors, which I believe you added in as well.

If both those changes were made, (str adding parry and dex adding patk), then I could agree with it.

Great post, not quite sure how I missed it, lol.

I added Phys Acc to Str.
You'll notice Int | Str | Dex all offer Attack+Acc+Mitigation

Quoted from "FencerSuzuki;375774"

I don't think it makes sense for Scout and Mage to get 1.5 pdef per Sta where Druids and Priests get 1 pdef. It seems against the glass cannon(s) archetype of Scouts and Magi. And healers need generally better defense as a trade off for their lack of offense.

Just saying the super-duper awesome Scout cranking out mad DEEPS getting more PDef then a Priest waiting for the Scout to run out of arrows is kinda frustrating.

Maybe if Wave Armor was useful, I'd feel differently. But I know that even when I was at 65k Pdef as a P, 1 combo shot would kill me.

As we know very well, P and D will generally stack more Stam/HP then a DPS class (assuming they aren't built as dps that is). Thus, for the most part these classes will come close to the Pdef of S and M.

Furthermore, since P and D can heal, I suggest they need the least amount of Pdef derived from stats (since their survivability is already higher).

Agreed S and M should be glass cannons, but as DPS they'll stack less stam then a tank or a melee (in theory at least) and healers ... thus, the 1.5 IMO offers the right balance.

Scouts and Mages have interchangably been the OP classes in ROM since beta. If the game were more balanced, where range and/or AoE+CC didn't offer such a distinct advantage, 1.5Pdef per stam makes a lot more sense then it does today.

I had to base these numbers on where I saw the classes ending up once all these changes are considered.

I'd refer you to section B of my post.

Agree that the changes you propose make a lot of sense and would greatly improve balance.

My suggestions are by no means "the way it has to be", they're just "the way I see it."

The issue of Mdam and Pdam is a complicated on in a game with a Dual Class system where hybrids especially are hindered by the distinction between Mdam and Pdam.

Furthermore, a major hinderance to "balance" is the difference between Mdam and Pdam, changing Mdam to %based like how you've suggested would go a long way to fixing this discrepancy, however I personally feel that the distinction between Ma, Pa, Mdef, Pdef.

This streamlines the process, one cannot fault performance on "but instance/boss XYZ has higher XDefense than it does YDefense" ... it's cases like that that make it very difficult to gage performance, and thus provide insight and feedback on actual balance.

This process also reduces the clutter in stats. So many stats are considered useless because they include Mdef (something almost no one is inclined to stack), streamline the mechanics to remove the distinction and suddenly these stats become useful. Sure there's some overlap in old content - redundant stats could be removed, and those that already have them would get to keep them with the changed modifiers (think how the no name stats in DoD were eventually resolved).

When considering all the suggestions as a whole, I feel that the removal of the distinction of Mdam and Pdam, Mattack and Pattack, Mdef and Pdef, is necessary if we want a dual class system to become balanced and for hybrids to becom effectual.

***Take the situation of W/M and P/W, the 2 clearest examples of hybrids in ROM****

W/M

Currently W/M must stack Stam/Int/MA/Strength/PA/Dex/HP/Pdef.

This hinders the build artificially. Either they chose to gear for melee (and ignore the bulk of their elites), chose caster (and ignore the bulk of their skills), chose both (and a. do weak melee and magical damage or b. build 2 distinct sets of gear).

Under my system, W/M would stack Stam/Strength/Attack/Hp/Defense.

This allows the W/M to use all their skills, they don't need Int stats, since they get the best attack ratio from Str. They don't need to worry about finding different weapons that don't offer weapon masteries (2h mastery does not apply to staffs - thus in a %dps system they'd be disadvantaged). They can perform both melee and caster damage, and tailor their skill usage to the situation.

A fight requires ranged attacks, great got that covered. Requires, melee, got that covered too! Requires CC+AoE, sweet got that in spades!

This is what folks rolling a hybrid expect, to be able to fulfill an array of functions. This is the allure of a dual class system. Sure W/M may become OP under my system ... but it's much easier to then balance the skills when the mechanics have been streamlined.

P/W
Currently must stack Stam/PA/Pdef/Dex/Wis/HP/Strength (and if they're so inclined MA + Int as well).

This combo can deal Mdam, Pdam and heal, it's got everything. To be most effective they'd require 3 distinct sets of gear! Currently most would settle for 2 (Pdam and Healing) or 1 (hybrid or just specialize), but to truely maximize their potential 3 are necessary.

Under my system they'd require Stam/Attack/Defense/Wisdom/Int/HP.

No strength or dex required. They're no longer hindered low PA values, low +hit values and poor itemization (they can't afterall wear chain or leather ... thus special caster gear must be found or their forced to use gear with ghost stats they don't want).

Again, this build would quickly become OP under my system. Again, changing and scaling skills accordingly would bring them back down to earth, but the build would have an easier time with itemization and perforance in group environments.

***

I use the above examples to illustrate how removing the distinction between Mdam and Pdam would benefit, and why simply changing magic to %DPS doesn't solve enough issues.