Runes of Magic US / AU

nemecis for frogster president

Quoted from "kevink75;375959"

nemecis for frogster president

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Quoted from "midknight129;375981"

I wouldn't with that on anyone.

Although it pains for me to agree with midknight..
I agree x)

greetings rom us. since nemecis has been visiting our european forums somewhat frequently and sharing his thoughts with us I thought I'd join this one of yours

basically the op is another sweet idea that would most certainly work if given time by the devs. personally though, I think that the plain damage way that mages have always worked can be updated to the level of physical attackers if the devs actually thought about their actions bit further. for long I have been blaming the devs (and perhaps frogster too) for constantly and utterly failing to listen to the terrificly huge communities this game beholds which I still see as the greatest problem in the way of this game every becoming good again. if the devs were truly smart they would recruit into their ranks (perhaps even hire) these great idealists such as nemecis and take suggestions from them into account more heavily. it could aswell be considered a crime against people like this who can make the effort of providing with suggestions of this depth just because they want to help out

back on topic, although it seems like a surekill skeleton for a working balance I would personally still refrain from making casters dps based. basically how I see it it would just totally renew the way healers work, because having both healing power in items and wisdom being a regular heals-improving attribute (I mean comparable to how much str increases patt for example) we would have in our hands some terrific healing machines in the long run. I would also think of taking staves' weapon speeds into account somewhat troubling because you would have to redefine the values to each and every staff and wand there are in the game

what I/we once thought of on the eu forums was a somewhat of a rollback in general level of character gearing. you can find it here: https://forum.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=311233

I suggested that all the attack stats to be removed from all gear and mods and replacing them with simple attributes. this way we would have all the classes' attacks decreased by a considerable amount making both instances harder and balancing the current situation where the most att-dependent classes overpowered compared to the rest. although this could theoretically fix a lot it would also cause some issues with the classes that don't need change, as in knights. I thought about something to fix this and it would require boosting up knights' agro skills or just giving them more patt per str, something like that. some effort and changes in the basic class mechanics would do a lot regaring the overall balance within the game.

in the end it just doesn't seem to be but just another little idea by the community to the devs. if only our voices were better heard, I do believe that we bear better knowledge of this game in general than the devs do afterall

Bump. More people need to read this
Original post by Nem is very, very good

damn for once i have to agree with nem, DAMN YOU IRONY!!!

Well thought out post nem, great ideas. I would like to see this implemented immediately. Someone call the dev team, wake them up, and translate this into Taiwanese!

Hmm, I've just started reading the forums and this thread, and Nem, I have to say, damn good job. I think as far as A, B, and C go, it's brilliant. I agree with the guy who said their should be a difference between Mdam and Pdam, and also think that Mdef and Pdef should still be kept unique. I believe this because, in my opinion, casters should have more defense against other casters than say, warriors (knights in my opinion should be all around tanks, able to take a hit etc, so I didn't include them there, and also leather wearers have a slight amount more mdef. My conception of a rogue, being cunning and an assassin type shouldn't be as vulnerable to magic as an up-in-your-face-and-hitting-with-unholy-wrath warrior).

My next thought is your ideas regarding dodge and parry. I see what you mean in terms of balance of damage mitigation, for most DPS classes the mitigation is 25%. I might be nitpicking, but P/W in this case is given the short stick here, with no parry and 12.5% dodge, which I can understand because of its healing ability (which is reduced by BMS), though I feel as a bad-ass battlemonk, they should receive parry as well. As far as other classes having already put stats into dex for acc, and maybe (but rather unlikely) rogues? putting str stats on gear, let warriors, knights, and wardens have some dodge from dex, maybe not quite as much as a rogue, or even scout, but a little bit. I say this because it would allow knights to stack a little bit more for dmg mitigation (which they should have more than any other class, to really solidify their position as tanks). I think K, W, and Wd wouldn't really mind if you reduced the atk from dex down, considering they don't get any patk from the stat as it is now. And If dodge/parry do have caps, then how would level difference and ghost stat bonuses (+dodge +parry) affect the game?

I do very much like your ideas regarding wisdom (especially as a W/R, but booo S/R), the rage one, however, does seem slightly confusing. A wiser warrior becomes angrier faster? <-- Joking. But how would increase rage gen, the others would function as they do now, regenerating a specific amount over time, which would be supplemented by wisdom. However, rage isn't really generated over time (obviously you know this, as your knowledge of game mechanics surpasses mine by leaps and bounds), but would we get more rage per swing? Per hit? Or would we get rage over time just for being in combat (plz).

One last thing, when you were talking about new content, I was just thinking the last instance where it really seemed like mages/multiple mages were useful was HoS/ZS/DL (especially HoS and DL). I haven't really touched KT yet or done more than the third boss on RT easy, but I'd say there really isn't a huge need for mages, with the way things are now in RT (which seems unfair to me). I think they should not only add instances that require mages, either 6 or 12 man, but make some that are even larger than that and require ALL (or almost all) classes, so you can really see some sort of harmony between all of rom's classes on a larger scale. If not more instances, then more difficulties, that leads to more/different trash and dynamic boss fights. This of course going with everything you had mentioned. I feel the idea of a 6 man group consisting of tank, healer, mage, and 3 types of DPS is a little over done already (this being what your proposals would hopefully achieve, but its better than a healer and 5 scouts at least). I'm not saying go Varanas nightmare on us again (though i do think the idea behind that is pretty cool, having to split up into teams and do various content), but something where the trash can pose a threat, and there is actually a tactic to doing something aside from the bosses (ZS/DL). For instance, intruder alert is going off (12+ man raid instance), and you have to deactivate two switches that are in opposite directions of each other. So do you split into two groups, or fight through an army?

My favorite gaming quote I've ever come across...

"No QQ, hugs and kisses".

Great post - well thought out and its nice to see a mature discussion taking place instead of a flame war.


It would be interesting to try the suggested changes and see what happens


Aquila

For the issue of hybrid classes, what if their elite skills were changed to work off the primary classes attack mod of choice, as opposed to removing attack mods? This way mattack/pattack/mdef/pdef could still remain in the game, but hybrid classes wouldn't have to chose between mattack/pattack (or keeping two sets, or other such decisions)

What about weapon slot ?
classes like s/r, r/s, k/s have advantage because of the extra slot to stat. It may not be all that, but i still think that's unfair. Because as the content progress with better stats these classes will have the upper advantage.

Quoted from "nemecis;379732"

with easy access to vi, and thus vii or even viii runes, agro generation has actually become a non issue for r/s and s/r - have a guildie reaching negative agro with 3 recon runes and a pacification powder.

I will hit you and you will thank me for it!

Quoted from "midknight129;379769"

I will hit you and you will thank me for it!

+1

Quoted from "nemecis;379726"

Something to the effect of "Pdam is now based of Mdam, Pa is now based of Ma, Pcrit off Mcrit etc." Yes I've seen that work quite well in other games. That would go a long way to helping the obvious hybrids.

Problem is it doesn't solve certain other issues.

1. The distinction between Mdam and Pdam causes a lot of issues when trying to determine "balance". This is a key concept. As long as there is a differentiation, it is very difficult to balance. Even more so when you consider balance from PvE and PvP perspectives.

This falls into the realm of "I think casters should have higher natural defenses to caster, melee to melee" kind of arguments. Personally, I've never seen why this has to be the case. I know there's a long standing tradition in the Fantasy genre tat lends itself to such thinking. But I don't see it as necessary. Personally, if a player stacks enough "defensive" or "survivability" type stats, they're clearly sacrificing offense. As such I feel they deserve defenses against all attackers.

The fact that Mdam is # based, and not %dps also adds to the issues. Can't simply make hybrids operate as you've suggested because the 2 systems do not operate on the same mechanics.

2. Does not help Melee/Caster and Caster/Melee builds that aren't considered "hybrids". P/R for instance only has 1 melee skill in it's aresenal. No point adding a skill that converts M-mechanics to P-mechanics. So Shadow Stab is left dealing rather meek damage. How about M/S, they aren't stacking PA, the will use shot, but mainly to trigger a spell portion of the spell. Again the conversion method does not allow this combo to benefit.

I don't profess that my system is perfect. I have already changed it based on some points raised by community members.

The reason I feel it could work is because I've tailored it to work within the game as is. Not to revamp the entire system from scratch, but to allow everyone to continue playing in their current gear. This system lays a foundation upon which all classes can be balanced through skill changes, because the other factors have been marginalized.

My only qualm with this is that for some skills, it does not make sense to be based off your main hand damage. For example, the Rogue/Mage elites are a set of traps you lay on the ground. it makes no sense for traps you lay on the ground to be based on your main hand %dps. As such, it would seem you would have to leave at least SOME skill based on #damage and you would have to determine which should be #damage and which should be %dps on a skill by skill basis?

Also my previous post was coming from the mind set of preserving diversity at the expense of balance, which I understand was against the general theme of your suggestion.

I noticed if your first post concerning the PA bonus applied to Rogues & Scouts.

Scouts should have the same bonus to PA since they are ranged, they should have a slightly reduced PA bonus from Dex & Str.

Rogues, Warriors, Wardens have to be up close to the target to hit them compared to Mages, Priest & Scouts & Druids.