40 dollars of DD's feels like 10 dollars a week.

Beginner

Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 8:57pm

When I buy 40 dollars worth of D's they last 3-4 weeks, thats about 10 dollars a week to play. All I buy is puri's, plussers, AUB, and other nessacery items needed to gear up. There is a post showing how ROM is more expensive then a Pay to play model, so I've been trying to promote for ROM to add a Pay-to-play option, and I still will keep pushing for it.

Give the players two options:
1.) Free to play with no monthly payment and you can buy D's when every you want to get cash shop items.
2.) Pay to play, players have to pay monthly but you can buy cash shop items with gold anytime.

I don't see how having both is not a win-win situation. I'd so rather pay 15 dollars a month then feel like I"m paying 10 dollars a week. LIke I've stated before, I"m not buying anymore D's till I feel there is more value in them, or they let me pay monthly to not have to hasstle with diamonds.

This insane need for diamonds is really makeing this great game less enjoyable for me and others. I like the guys in my guild, and I want to get stronger so are guild can get stronger, but when everyone need's puri's and pluser's and D sellers are at 70k a D and more when you do find one, everyone just feels were stuck. Non of us can affored to buy items for each other in high amounts, when every D is needed for ourselves, but we try and run out quick. I've talked with most of my guild and most of us would love to pay montly not to have to worry about D's anymore, and some would like to play for free while buying D's when they want. So haveing both options would make a guild like us, very very happy.

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mrmisterwaa

Professional

Posts: 670

Location: Kuwait

2

Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 9:14pm

OP,

This has been stated many times on the Suggestion section of the forums.

And that is a horrible idea btw.

p2p + paying gold for cash shop? :\

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effervescent

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Posts: 969

3

Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 9:21pm

I didn't like this idea the first several times it was suggested. I still think it's horrible.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.

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gigilomann

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Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 9:26pm

If you think about it, it would be a good gold sink, PLUS the p2p players coupld get their gold from the F2P players thereforeblancing it out b/ the P2p players jsut spend that gold of the F2p players to get more stuff

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trav42073

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5

Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 9:26pm

well if u expected to start playing in ch4 and run with the big dog endgamers right away, yea its pricey all at once. current endgamers gradually got where they are. cost was spread out. fast n easy=$

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myrick21

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6

Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 9:43pm

That is fine if it is a bad idea to you, so that just means that you don't have to use the option. you just keep going on playing like you are now. It would only be great for players like me who would use it. It's not a bad idea overall just cuase you don't like it and wont use it.

And yes it would be a great gold sink, pay-to-play players would not be able to gift item shop items, but they could plus, clean, or hammer unbond gear for others. Whitch is no diffenent from what players do now, expect it would be way easier to find a pay-to-play player ask how much to plus this gear, give him gold, and he plusses it. No diffent then current way of paying for the use of plusers, or no diffenent then buy the D's off him to do it urself, but the biggest diffenrce is the gold leaves the in game economy instead of just changing hands.

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trav42073

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Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 9:58pm

sorry for the extra post, im on cell. but take a minute and think. monthly fee players use gold to mod gear, turn around and sell or trades it to his f2p account. once hes geared, quits monthly acct.

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myrick21

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Posts: 21

8

Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 10:46pm

You would not need to trade or sell to other account, the option- meaning you can turn it off and on, when ever you want with the same account. Of couarse if you pay 3-6-12 month payment you get a discount so ur locked in for that time, but even if you go month to month. So what if you are all geared out and switch back to free to play. How is that any different from gearing out now with your or someone elses d's. when you done you stop buying D's for those reasons.

Why do some of you guys keep posting responses worrying about Froggy bottom line more then your own. With the, "option", Froggy gets payed ether way, so don't worrie about how much or little they make, because they still get payed. You should instead worry about your wallets or bank account. I don't see why some of you guys are so quick to shot down an affordable idea, whitch in turn means, you are set in imbracing this very expensive way of playing now. This game at it's current rate, if you are a modest D buyer is 20-50 dollars a month, with some paying way more.

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BJHawk

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9

Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 11:56pm

Quoted from "myrick21;466034"

That is fine if it is a bad idea to you, so that just means that you don't have to use the option. you just keep going on playing like you are now. It would only be great for players like me who would use it. It's not a bad idea overall just cuase you don't like it and wont use it.

Replying to bold.

Everyone else would NOT be able to continue as they are. What you suggest would give subscribed players virtually infinite resources to buy anything they want. If such a thing ever happens, I'll (try to) sell my account and run. The game would be shaken to it's core and collapse.

Also, nothing good can come from capping the amount that an individual need spend. Right now, some players spend significantly more than $10/mo, and they still can't buy everything. With your system, they need only subscribe for a month, buy everything and enough to last til the sun dies, and cancel their subscription. A subscription alternative is not a very feasible possibility, but could theoretically be made to work. The really bad part of your idea is the ability for a certain group of players to buy CS items with gold. A single subscribed player could supply an entire server with all the CS-modified gear they could ever need, and he could do it within one month. The effect this would have on FA's income should be obvious.

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myrick21

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Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 1:30am

A player would not have infinite resources, becuase he would need gold to buy the items, inwhich he would not have infinite gold. So what about the guys with the big stores of gold, u say? well they could buy a whole lot of items with it, just like they do when they buy up all the D sellers D's. There is no diffeance but the gold leaving the system when you buy cash shop items for gold. And it it not unfair for a pay to pay player to be able to buy with gold because he is paying monthly. And a free to pay player can and would go on playing like normal, buying D's or services from others like he does now.

And not all cash shop items need to be avalibale for gold, just the essentials needed to gear and progress. I highly dought you can buy everything you need in one month unless you had a insane amount of gold, like above. Haveing unlimited access to puri's for gold does not mean you can stat all ur gear in one month, you can only use the puri's as fast as you can get stats and for the amount of gold you have, witch, I stress again, is not infinite. You will run out or get short on funds eventually.

One could not fund a whole server, that is to much a strech even to state. Any item a pay-to-player gets is bound, he can not gift any items. He could clean, stat, or plus a item for someone, but that person would have to Unbind his own gear, (witch that player would have to spend 99 D's, or buy 99 D's froma free-to-play player for a AUB). But just doing the service requires gold, and that gold leaves the economy, with means the players would run out or get low, so not all players can make hundreds of millions in one month. The player would have to be on insane hours to do all that for a lot of people and everyone would need the required amount of gold. The items for gold would not be cheap to the point were you could run around doing services for everyone, it would run the same costs as it does now for some one doing the same service with there D bought items. so nothing changes but large amounts of gold leaving the system.

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Icedman

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Posts: 51

Location: Canada

11

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 3:28am

Honestly, a gold shop might be just what the game needs right now to start lowering the gold flowing around on servers. A gold shop alone is very different however from a two tier system as the OP suggested.

For Frogster's sake, a gold shop would be a great gold sink (if implemented correctly) and would have the lowest impact on Frogster's diamond sales. This sort of thing would also set the gold-diamond conversion rate at a somewhat stable level, but would allow it to fluctuate.

The other alternative (gold-dia NPC) would be the most convenient to players, but would also have the greatest impact on Frogster's diamond sales. It would also set the diamond price solid at whatever the conversion rate turns out to be, which could make it hard for players to sell diamonds without being at a loss.

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BJHawk

Intermediate

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12

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 4:05am

Quoted from "myrick21;466180"

A player would not have infinite resources, becuase he would need gold to buy the items...

He would get this gold from players who would pay for those services. Yes, to those individuals, nothing will immediately change, but instead of their hundreds of millions of gold going to diamond sellers (who have spent hundreds of dollars to have thousands of diamonds), they give that money to a subscribed player, (who has spent $10 for a subscription that month). Really, the only thing that would be missing is basic PFSs, but hey, people can just buy stats from the AH, which would drop in price quickly once certain players could get PFSs for nothing (gold).

I exaggerated slightly, because there is not enough cooperation among players for one player to supply the whole server, but the eventual effect is the same. FA would make a lot less money, because however many millions you spend in the CS, FA doesn't make a dime in the gold shop. Your $10/mo doesn't go far compared to others who spend hundreds in a month. Essentially, your idea clips the top of the tree of, setting $10/mo as the maximum amount of money that any sane person would spend. If they don't have enough gold for their own upgrades, they can sell services and demand a service fee, and gear up themselves and others. They provide the $10/mo, and others provide the infinite supply of gold.

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BJHawk

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13

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 4:21am

Quoted from "Icedman;466223"

Honestly, a gold shop might be just what the game needs right now to start lowering the gold flowing around on servers. A gold shop alone is very different however from a two tier system as the OP suggested.

For Frogster's sake, a gold shop would be a great gold sink (if implemented correctly) and would have the lowest impact on Frogster's diamond sales. This sort of thing would also set the gold-diamond conversion rate at a somewhat stable level, but would allow it to fluctuate.

The other alternative (gold-dia NPC) would be the most convenient to players, but would also have the greatest impact on Frogster's diamond sales. It would also set the diamond price solid at whatever the conversion rate turns out to be, which could make it hard for players to sell diamonds without being at a loss.

I would also like to see several services offered for gold. I have listed ideas in other places, and other people have had some really great ideas. The main misunderstanding is that many p2p players discard such ideas as f2ps trying to get something for nothing. But the primary point is always a gold sink.

I don't understand how a gold-diamond NPC, with high prices and a low daily limit would have a significant impact on the sale of diamonds in the long term. It's like the free food samples at Sam's Club, or some malls. Give players a taste of what it's like, and some may buy who would not have bought a thing before. No one gets full on samples, especially not if there is only one sample.

If the diamond NPC did cause a drop in sales, they simply need to lower the daily limit and/or raise the gold cost of each diamond. Ideally, the diamond NPC should sell diamonds for a slightly higher price than the market price from a PC diamond seller.

But the primary purpose is still gold sink, and diamond supply is secondary. There have also been several ideas for gold sinks that would not affect diamond sales in any way, but which have gained no comment from FA.

Anyway, I've said that before. Somehow I just hope that if I say it long enough, someone of influence will eventually grasp it, and understand. Fat chance, I know, but I can still hope.

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myrick21

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Posts: 21

14

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 7:10am

I don't think it is fair to compare 10 dollars a month to 100 dollars a month. Can you actually tell me how meny players are spending that much. I'm sure there are players that do but not meny. However, what is more? A handful of players paying 100 dollars month or 10x that handfull paying 10-15 dollars a month. I believe a comparison to a moderate or no D buyer is more appropreit

Why are you so concerned about FA's bottom line. You tell me it is not a good idea becuase FA would not make as much. Key words being as much, but there still getting paid. Right now i"m not buying D's, I wonder if you are, but I would be paying 15 dollars a month if I could do a PTP option. so take 50 guys like me and then compare that to the 100 dollar a month D buyer, then tell me what system produces more. O but wait, Froggy would have both systems so they would get money from both. I still don't see how it's not a win win.
A PTP could not gear up someone, they could only modify there gear. And that gear would have to be unbond by that person using there D's or someones else D's they bought. which is a idea you seem to miss. And yes if a PTP needed gold they could run around offering there service, but that is what's goind on now just in a diffenent form. Also, not everyone has big stashes of gold so the supply is not infinite in application, in theory maybe buy not application. it would be certian players that could afford the items and the players fees that are on at that time.

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blatel

Beginner

Posts: 16

15

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 8:49am

Im not opposed to the F2P system we have here..

Some players can play without spending a penny.. If one dont care about how fast he gets to endgame..

Although i have one issue..

The diamond/$ ratio.. is too low.. and its destroying the economy of the game..

And now with the new payment system.. We seem to be getting a lower ratio of diamonds/$ .

Server: Palenque, Guild: Loreleifury, Char: Sierrana

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BJHawk

Intermediate

Posts: 306

16

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 9:18am

Quoted from "myrick21;466293"

Can you actually tell me how meny players are spending that much.

No, I have no way to know how many players pay what, just as you have no way to tell how many would pay $10/mo with your idea. I do know that some players have calculated a total expenditure of over $10,000 on the game. Even if they've been playing the full 2.5 years since official release, that is an average of well over $300/mo.

Quoted

Why are you so concerned about FA's bottom line. You tell me it is not a good idea becuase FA would not make as much. Key words being as much, but there still getting paid.

Why am I so concerned? Because you are putting forth a drastic change in FA's business model, then saying they should use it because it shouldn't reduce their profit by TOO much.

Quoted

A PTP could not gear up someone, they could only modify there gear. And that gear would have to be unbond by that person using there D's or someones else D's they bought. which is a idea you seem to miss.

Because it makes no difference. People already have to do that when they pay for plussing and cleaning services, and very few of them buy diamonds themselves directly.

Quoted

And yes if a PTP needed gold they could run around offering there service, but that is what's goind on now just in a diffenent form.

Yes, but currently it costs people diamonds, not gold. FA doesn't make money or stay in business when we spend gold, even if we worked hard for it.

Quoted

Also, not everyone has big stashes of gold so the supply is not infinite in application, in theory maybe buy not application. it would be certian players that could afford the items and the players fees that are on at that time.

Let's look at it this way. In the current system, a player has 200mil gold, and he needs to improve his gear. He finds several diamond sellers, and manages to buy for an average price of 100k/diamond. This means buys 2000 diamonds, which profits FA by some $30-35 even on a double diamond sale. In your method, that same player could spend $10, buy all he wanted, and cancel. FA makes $10. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer to make $30 to $10. I used a very high price and double diamond sale. Without those, the difference would be even more extreme. If everyone was like you, it might work. But most players would find even worse exploits than my example.

Bottom line is, FA primarily looks at two things: financial profit and customer satisfaction. Ideally, every decision they make should increase one without decreasing the other. I can't sugercoat it; your idea fails to do this.

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Cinnie - 70P/K/S - Govinda
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myrick21

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Posts: 21

17

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 10:46am

So far good back and forth here Bjhawk, but I have to disagree with you agian. In ur example the guy with the 200m gold, when buying D's from another player gives 0 to Rom. If he were to pay 15 dollars for a month then room has 15 dollars from him while still haveing the money from the D buyers. Also there is now way you can buy everything you need for 200m, just like 2000 D's can't get you everything you need. not even 5000 D's would do it. So now his 200m is used up, and that gold is gone from the economy instead of changing hands, so what does the player have to do. he has to gain more gold. witch is easy for some but not for all. Most players can not get hundres of millions in one month. And I think it is incorrect to base all ur examples on such a small percentage of the population that can. Most people who make insane amounts of gold don't need it, but for the rest who only make a couple of mil here and there they have to strech it.

So why are a lot of Pay to play games adding Free to play to there current system. It must not be that much of shock. I know it's the other way around but it seems to be working for the ones that have it, so much so, other PTP's are lineing up to add it to there systems. Rom would just be joining them but it would just be the other way around. And is this game really free to play after lvl 55.

Also to say it would be exploited is a no brainer, the current system is being exploited by gold sellers, botters, and item shop thieves. Any and everything will be explotied. Sure there will be some people that will sign up for a month then sign off, but there would be a lot of people that would not. How about the people that take the 3-6-12 month option, that's called steady income.
pay-to-play adds steady income to FA's current up and down income system with the free-to-play system. Being able to plan ur expenses with known income is way better then planing with projected income. FA would clearly still make profit, and in the end that is all that would matter, and players both free and pay would be happy.

I truely think this coverstation would be better over a couple of beers. lol

Swag just stated a annoucemet is coming this week on some fixes for the economy. Maybe this will solve most issues and topics like this will fade away, however great the idea is.

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effervescent

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Posts: 969

18

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 11:43am

Insinuating that your suggestion would only affect those who choose the subscription option means you're either naive or you obviously haven't thought it through. It would cause massive imbalances, and it would break the game. Even as a p2p player, I wouldn't ever want this to happen.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.

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Icedman

Beginner

Posts: 51

Location: Canada

19

Thursday, September 22nd 2011, 4:24pm

Quoted from "BJHawk;466243"

I would also like to see several services offered for gold. I have listed ideas in other places, and other people have had some really great ideas. The main misunderstanding is that many p2p players discard such ideas as f2ps trying to get something for nothing. But the primary point is always a gold sink.

I don't understand how a gold-diamond NPC, with high prices and a low daily limit would have a significant impact on the sale of diamonds in the long term. It's like the free food samples at Sam's Club, or some malls. Give players a taste of what it's like, and some may buy who would not have bought a thing before. No one gets full on samples, especially not if there is only one sample.

If the diamond NPC did cause a drop in sales, they simply need to lower the daily limit and/or raise the gold cost of each diamond. Ideally, the diamond NPC should sell diamonds for a slightly higher price than the market price from a PC diamond seller.

But the primary purpose is still gold sink, and diamond supply is secondary. There have also been several ideas for gold sinks that would not affect diamond sales in any way, but which have gained no comment from FA.

Anyway, I've said that before. Somehow I just hope that if I say it long enough, someone of influence will eventually grasp it, and understand. Fat chance, I know, but I can still hope.

The issue is more to do with the drop in sales they would experience for a period after such a NPC is implemented. Think about how many people have stocks of over 200m gold, and how easily they can obtain 2m+.

A stable method to obtain X amount of diamonds/day might be just what these players are looking for in order to increase their diamond stocks gradually.

It's difficult to say the true affect this would have without it actually being implemented, and I understand that the limit/day can be changed. But something like 50 dias/day would allow you to get a regular priced purified fusion stone every 2 days, along with charges in order to use it.

Diamond conversion rate also shouldn't be too high because in order to appeal to, and hook newer players, they must be affordable.

Diamonds back on AH along with a gold shop would probably be the best solution imo, but I don't think were ever going to see AH diamonds again. Oh how I miss buying diamonds for 4k each...

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Grimdal

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** Retired **
I don't play anymore but I read/comment on the forums now and then, waiting for something to entice me to come back.