Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Sadz202;474973"

They don't hate merc's, they hate losing to merc's. If they win, they just boost about how they beat other guild with merc's, if they lose...qq on forum for stopping merc's. If all the merc's are just level 55 ungear toons, I'm sure they beg those merc's to stay because they will get more kill in the spread sheet.

Well that makes about as much sense as a football bat. A merc is a siege breaker character, overpowered to the point where any regular player(s) would not be able to compete against. Adding people to siege that are at the current level of the rest of the guild, is not merc'ing... it's simply playing the game as intended, without exploiting the flaws in the mechanics. That's why the gear score would be so helpful, because it pits like characters against each other, rather than a lowbie killfest.

And the gear score doesn't have to end there, it can be a front runner for organization of almost all PvP aspects, from arena selection to daily PK situations as pertains to honor point gain. Would also serve as a marker for a player's game progression and a helpful tool for new leveling players to help determine the quality of their gear. Would help in recruiting players for guilds that wish to progress in endgame, by seeking out members of a certain caliber. Siege would just be one area of the game that would be enhanced due to the implementation of gear scores... the possibilities are endless.

Quoted from "AngelIsrafel;475030"

I've said it before, i'll say it again. Anyone can Merc, if you chose not to you're choosing not to have an advantage. Don't get pissed that you lose to guilds that DO merc, just adapt untill Frogster and Runewalker create a decent balance.

So in essence, you're suggesting that since anyone can walk through people's castle walls due to terrain distance lag, you should do it till they fix it? And the same with the heart of the oak disconnect glitch... if you're a warden, do it, right? Same with shooting factories through people's walls... I mean hey, if you can do it, might as well right?

Quoted from "AngelIsrafel;475053"

All those things you mentioned are classified as Exploits and are against game rules. Mercing isn't.

Did you even read vfwiffo's post about the definition of an exploit and how it pertains to this situation? It's a good post, you should check it out:

Quoted from "vfwiffo;473689"

I would look at it as a form of exploit. Here is Wiki page defining practice as "An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game designers".

For example, the definition is fairly clearly applicable to castle breaches. Castle is designed to be a sovereign territory of one guild until gates are down, but due to design flaws, can be entered in a variety of ways, none of them intended. Thus any attempt to do so is an exploit.

By the same token, game's intended behavior is not to let people switch guilds for the siege, by prohibiting the practice around siege time. Due to design flaw of not having long enough period of prohibition, that behavior can be bypassed, and bypassing it is an exploit.

I'd also make a point that the game intends guilds to be evenly matched, and since alt guilds deliberately alter their score to circumvent the matching system, that is also an exploit. This method pretty cleanly matches the exploit mentioned on Wiki page: "[Game X] had an exploit in player versus player ... whereby a player would intentionally lose level by dying in order to compete against lower-level players while wielding higher-level items and skills". The same technique is used by alt guilds on regular basis, except on team level instead of individual one.

Besides, there was a time when all those currently bannable exploits were only considered glitching and/or simply "frowned upon" if you were caught using them to your advantage. It wasn't until the community spoke up against their abuse that FA/RW declared them to be a bannable offense. Either way, I'm not suggesting that it should be considered worthy of a ban, because it's not against the rules to switch guilds. However, guild hopping for the sole purpose of taking advantage of a flawed system is exploiting anyway you slice it, and there should be measures taken to remove the opportunity to do so.

Shadow Guilds are basically the same thing as merc'ing, just on a larger & more organized scale. The difference really only lay in the numbers of merc's participating.

A Merc, is an overpowered player, who leaves one guild to join another that is queued for siege and is significantly low on the PvP rank structure. This ensures that the OP player is placed against weaker geared opponents with lower levels, to optimize the probability of a win. Because of the significant difference in quality of gear, levels & organization, there is also a substantial likelihood that the merc will also achieve the highest rated player marks in the event, to further gained rewards at it's conclusion.

A Shadow Guild, is a group of overpowered players, who, in the essence of achieving victory through the simplest means possible, have created multiple alternate guilds, which they use to queue up several slots in the siege window. Once the entry window is closed, and the PvP ranks are displayed, the group of players select the guild with the lowest ranking that was able to queue into the window and they all transfer to it. This does two things... one, like the individual merc, it provides a situation where the possibility of a loss becomes near to non-existent by eliminating the possibility of opponents that could offer a challenge. And 2, allows the other alternate guilds that were queued in the window but not used, to suffer losses, resulting in lower PvP rank status for the following day; thus providing another opportunity for the shadow guild to continue their collaboration unabated.

So in essence... the problem is that merc'ing has gone unchecked for so long, that these people have actually developed a system to organize the mass manipulation of the exploit. Comparatively similar to a guild comprised of wardens who use heart of the oak to d/c the opponents in mass, while their scouts take out factories through their walls, and their rogues shadow step into their castle. Only difference between them, is that the latter has been deemed bannable, while the preceding is currently only "frowned upon." And as it's been pointed out by another person... should be "taken advantage of" while it's still not considered an official offense.

Ok... siege is so broke right now, it's not even funny. Exploits run rampant, hacks are constantly in use by many players as well as guilds, glitches, lag, disconnects, there's even entire websites dedicated to programs & guides designed specifically for helping people to easily manipulate the flaws in the system. I can see where some people would see the lack of activity to fix these problems as a reason to join the crowd and just partake in the party favors since everyone else is already getting away with it. I mean, it makes sense to think that if everyone just started hacking & exploiting away, it would finally make things evenly balanced, cause no one would have the advantage anymore. But giving in and eventually defending technicalities for those who do these things, regardless of your own participation, doesn't change the fact that it's morally corrupt & in practical essence philosophically wrong. I mean seriously... just how many straws jumping onto the camel's back do you think it'll take before it eventually breaks?

Quoted from "AngelIsrafel;475343"

I was unaware of the fact that creating your own guild and inviting friends to it (as OP as they may be) wasn't intended.


Ohh wait...

It's one thing to create a guild and invite your OP friends to it... it's something else to create a guild, invite your OP friends, create another guild, invite your OP friends, create another guild, invite your OP friends, create another guild, invite your OP friends, return to your first guild, invite your OP friends, return to your second guild, invite your OP friends, etc, etc... on a daily basis... for the soul purpose of ensuring wins & rewards without adequate effort.

Your argument isn't even about making an established guild with friends, it's about trying to find a technicality in the wording of the debate and hope that no one notices the fallacy in your defensive dispute.

Though simultaneously, I don't agree with Whippingboy that it needs to be defined as a bannable offense either. While I do recognize it as an exploit, I also see it as the prerogative of the player to decide what guild he/she wants to be in at any time they so choose. Whether that's a daily change, is on them. Besides, just officially declaring something to be worthy of a ban, doesn't stop everyone from committing it. Same concept of a car alarm... it's meant to keep good people from doing the wrong thing, whereas if a car thief really wants to steal your car, they're gonna do it.

Just like any other declared "bannable offense" in siege, it simply reduces the number of people who openly engage in the exploit, but doesn't solve the problem. I'm not looking to get another band-aid on a broken leg here, which is why the ability to partake in the exploit should be barricaded.

Quoted from "deus69xxx;476511"

a little insight: the term gear score, is a dirty, dirty phrase. it created schisms in WoW, and made an entire expansion a time for people leaving the game. do not do it, you'll have a mass exodus out of this game.

if you want to balance participation in siege war, there needs to be a HIDDEN player based pvp score for siege war that puts you in certain brackets. if you are in a guild whose score is below your bracket, you cannot participate in SW. that lowers your personal score by a % for each SW the guild does that you miss. eventually, you'll be able to go back in.

you can always screw a gear score system. my priest gear could put me in the 2500 GS bracket, and i could screw it over by swapping to my unstatted mage side gear and suddenly be in the three digit section, pop in, swap gear, and eat face.

GS (gear score) is a horrible option that sees nothing but pain and misery for anyone who isn't in the top tier of gear, because there's always a way around it.

This is like the 4th time someone has suggested swapping gear as a method for bypassing the suggestion, and I really don't feel like explaining it, yet again, as to how PERMANENT BRANDING OF GEAR POTENTIAL determines your score; making it so swapping class/gear has no effect.

As to the comment on schisms, and how it affected WoW; that argument may hold water. But the difference between this game and that one, is that schisms already exist. The powerful guilds have those powerful people, just defining it more can't extend that further, simply because the player base is not as extensive as WoW. There's just not enough people playing this game anymore, to merit further seperation. Also, the necessity for having low-level players in your guild for siege would still be a requirement, simply because there will always be a need to have low-level players to farm merits & crystals from towers, while the big-boys go out to play. The thing that WoW did wrong, is when they made the scores, they didn't give people a reason to have lower-level/geared players in their guilds... while this game does. I believe the impact you suggest would be a minimal one at best.

Though it still may be something not worth overlooking. I guess all in all, in the essence of the topic, I believe it would be up to the majority if they would rather suffer at the hands of merc's & shadow guilds eating at the core of their only real organized pvp event, or be more-so identified as someone who is or is not in one the most powerful guilds on the server.