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Monday, October 10th 2011, 4:23pm
Quoted from "effervescent;472972"
@ SuzumiyaHaruhi - Piercing Arrow was BUFFED 30%, not nerfed...not sure how you missed that as a scout >.>. Its cooldown was also reduced. It is much, much better than Wind Arrow.
Saturday, October 15th 2011, 5:32pm
Piercing Arrow a trash skill? Seriously? You need to spend more time on the scout side if you think one of the highest DPS skills a scout has is awful.
Tuesday, October 18th 2011, 5:26pm
I'm a bit concerned about your lack of interest in the scout skills... kinda seems like you just glanced over them without ever really taking the time to get to know the class.
First of all it's a widely known fact that Vampire arrows has a scaling problem above level 50, where the investment of levels into the ability have diminishing returns.
Joint blow & wrist attack, albeit great for melee, are kind of useless in the fact that your a ranged class, that is attempting to keep the target at range. Wrist attack should be considered to be a ranged attack, like you posted about the neck strike. Join blow is pretty much the same thing as frost arrows, except it has the chance of stopping movement all together (with cripple joint), giving you a half-step to get away. They even override each other, so really it's just a double-up space-waste.
Mana drain shot is just plain useless. I mean really, does anyone even have a viable use for this anymore? Gonna drain someone's mana when they're hitting for 50k? Would it even matter with the pots & mana stones available?
Lasso should only break on new attacks, not pre-existing dot damage from things like vamp arrow. (Though that may be a bit OP unless they put lasso on a 30sec cd)
Blood arrow is just garbage... what with as much health as you have to sacrifice to use it at higher levels, just not worth it.
Target area can become a significant liability because focus regeneration speeds are horribly slow, especially while in combat... making it's use very limited, only useful when you have concentration off cooldown.
Snipe's cooldown needs to be reduced to 2sec so that it can compete with combo shot.
Also, I agree with this... piercing arrow & reflective shot are great for soloing and fending off multiple mobs. Even comes in handy in instances where you accidentally pull agg and have to kite them around while still trying to DPS the main target.
Tuesday, October 18th 2011, 5:52pm
No. The last thing anybody needs is a class that can literally just stand there and do max damage by rotating between 2 skills. If you want to maximize your damage output, you should have to use a wide variety of skills in your arsenal. Just look at the warrior class. It has a complicated, but effective, skill rotation. That is the whole point of balancing skills. Everything should be used, not just Snipe and Combo Shot.
Tuesday, October 18th 2011, 6:17pm
...I just read the topic, read the comments and vote what you smoking.
Why? Learn to play your combo, you'll end up hate it or love it. And RW rarely revamp the whole skill system. They will only boost/nerf the existing ones.
Take scout and mage for example.
Chap 2, scout is useless. People in the forum complaint/qq enough to ask for a boost.
Chap 3, mage become useless, while a scout with hasting does 500k dps per second even with a untiered white bow. Mages qq hard across all regions.
Chap 4, scout got nerf, mage got buff and rogue got buff!?!? Now everyone goes rogue while they know RW at some point of time will slam the nerf hammer. Good thing about this time is everyone got a 3 class, but that won't stop people from qq when it happen. I'll probably sit here with a bucket of popcorn laughing at 100 page long thread of list of demands to revamp the skills and rage quits.
Wednesday, October 19th 2011, 7:27am
I'm not doing this because my combo is underpowered (I'm a wd/s, which I already admitted was absurdly overpowered right now). I know how to play my combo, and I am learning as much as I can about the other combos in the game. The point is to make the game as balanced as possible, so that victory is determined by skill (and time and money invested, since this is a free-to-play mmo after all). I'm aware that RW will probably never take my suggestions, but I least I am trying. Wouldn't you much rather play a game where constant re-nerfing and re-buffing wasn't necessary? Cause I know I would. I truly think it is possible to get the classes so in balance that they don't require any more re-balances later on (unless higher level skills or different classes are added).
What would REALLY help is other people stepping in to offer their feedback and suggestions on the classes they are familiar with. Runewaker and Frogster will be far more likely to at least glance at this thread if a lot of people show their support for it.
Wednesday, October 19th 2011, 8:13am
A. Warden General Skills
-Charged Chop: probably the worst skill in the entire warden arsenal. This really needs to get buffed. I recommend increasing the damage significantly and making it the warden's main dps attack skill. The mana cost should also be increased to compensate.
Charged Chop is just borken, technically it's fine, it doesnt need a DPS boost, the only thing it needs is the damage modifier from the cast time like most other cast skill have. It only need a fix.
-Briar Shield: Fairly good as is, but it is only useful against physical attacks in a very close range. I'm also not sure this always activates when it should, due to lag. Since the warden is supposed to be a tank/dps hybrid, I think this should be upgraded to either 1. repel both physical and magical attacks within a range of 75 (currently 50), or 2. repel only physical attacks within a range of 200 (possibly 150).
Honestly, the range is fine, increasing it to 200 means removing lots advantages scouts and mages have over Wardens. As much as i hate facing mages in PvP, briar shield that reflects magical damage would, again, make briar shield overpowered (dont forget about the x/wd). In my opinion it's ifne as it is.
-Power of the Wood Spirit: not as good as other classes' general attack skills, so it's dps should be upgraded slightly. To help differentiate it from Charged Chop, it should be the tank oriented melee attack. Maybe add a chance to deflect or dodge the next attack, which can only happen once every 10 seconds or so. The mana cost should also be increased slightly.
Increasing the manacost is just stupid, it drains mana fast enough. Again, this skill is fine as it is. A spammable instant cast shouldnt have high damage, work on a rotation, this skill is just a filler not a main DPS skill. Also, it has a heal every 30 or 45 seconds that is really usefull, it doesnt need a deflect or dodge buff also.
-Enhanced Accuracy: At the very least it needs to be upgradable past level 50. Also, it seems to have less of an effect when compared to other classes' stat bonuses (like scout's dex bonus), so maybe increase the amount overall a little bit.
I honestly wouldnt allocate TP into this skill past lvl 50, unless it'S changed to a stam or str or any passive buff to a base attribute (hell, i'd even take a passive pattack buff)
-Elven Amulet: Good as is.
-Savage Power: Good as is.
B. Warden Primary Skills
-Energy Absorb: Not really sure why this has a 5 min cooldown. A 3 min cooldown would be more fitting. Fine other than that.
Has a 5 min cooldown like every other class has a 5 min cooldown on their best short duration buff...
-Recall Pet: Nothing really to say about this skill, it's pretty straightforward. A small improvement would be making this usable without dismounting or interrupting charged chop, since this skill in no way helps your odds in combat. you use it in combat?
-Summon Spirit of the Oak: The oak's health and defense needs to scale better at higher levels and with better gear. It should always have more health and defense than the player. Also, switching secondary classes with the Oak Spirit summoned triggers it's rescue ability, so that should be fixed.
Fine as is. I was happy to see that RoM is the only game where the pets are not a bajillion time stronger than their summoners (ex: Anarchy Online, etc). Pets are there to assist you, not do your job.
-Thorny Vines: Seriously needs a buff. This only does around 2/3rds of the damage per tick of Vampire Arrow, has a shorter duration, and doesn't inflict any initial damage. I favor increasing the damage and changing it back how it used to work (inflicted increasing damage per tick). Maybe even add a massive burst of damage if it gets dispelled or something.
no comments
-Elven Prayer: Should have a 30 second cooldown (currently 2 min) and be based off of the pet's health instead of the player's. (current formula: max hp x 11% + 260 at level 50) This amount healed also needs to be significantly increased (maybe just a standard 25% heal instead of the formula), because it is almost useless as it is now.
never used it and never will lol.
-Movement Restriction: The only problem I have with this skill is that by max level the damage inflicted is essentially useless. Of course, that's not the point of the skill. But it would still be nice if the damage continued to increase past level 50 somehow. Maybe the skill could reach level 67, but only the damage would increase past level 50.
Dude, i dont know how much TP you have but there's no way i'D waste TP in this skill past 50, it's a REALLY good skill in both PvE AND PvP, since it roots and doesnt break on damage AND hits when it ends. The damage dealt is OK, not good but not bad.
*-Summon Nature Crystal: I love what the recent updates have does with this pet. But the wording for its secondary ability (immune to damage but can't attack) really needs to be changed. It is currently incredibly confusing to new players. I have one other small qualm which I shall address later.
-Damage Transfer: Double the duration to 30 seconds.
I only use it if i know im gonna die and i want to make it the slowest possible, it'll mostly kill your pet.
-Heart of the Oak: I really like this skill, but the increased physical defense should start at a lower amount and increase more, therefore maxing out at the same amount as now. It is a little odd that it starts at level 1 with around an 80% defense increase.
-Frantic Briar: Maybe decrease the mana cost a tad.
Not really necessary, fine as is.
-Summon Oak Walker: Obviously the suicide glitch needs to be fixed. I don't use this pet very much, so I can't comment on anything else. I'll just say that it's stats (specifically strength and dexterity) need to scale with the player's gear and level at a rate that makes it useful at endgame.
LOL, it scales greatly, you just need to know your class and know how to use Oak Walker. Probably scales better than Chiron. (Oak Walker's damage mostly scales off your crit rate). The ONLY thing that it needs is a fix to its suicidal attemps.
-Protection of Nature: The critical hit rate needs to be increased more, so that it becomes a viable alternative (dps instead of tanking) to Heart of the Oak.
I dont think it needs a boost to the crit hit rate, but maybe add a %crit damage increase to it.
-Two-Hand Weapon Mastery: Good as is.
-Natural Lifeline: Good as is.
-Banish: This should really work on bosses, as should other stasis abilities of this sort (regardless of class).
CCs should not work on bosses other than interrupts, it would make bosses way to easy to kill. Imagine Banishing RT first boss right before his jump, or GC 1st boss before the box thing..
-Vitality Explosion: I like the recent changes (since now it's actually useful), but I would prefer for the healings to be in smaller increments over time. Instead of healing 10% every 25 seconds, it should heal 2.5% every 6 seconds. The chance that using Power of the Wood Spirit will trigger this remains the same. (My reasoning behind this is that it is too easy to use up your heal at the beginning of the fight when you don't need it, since Power of the Wood Spirit is the main melee skill for most wardens.)
Again, learn to get a good rotation, PotWS is only a filler and NOT a main melee skill, whatever your combo is. Wd/m = wind chop. wd/w = double chop, beast chop, pulse mastery, etc. wd/s = joint blows, vamp, submission, etc, wd/r = shadowstab, etc, i think you get my point.
-Power of the Oak: This needs a pretty hefty buff, considering wardens get a passive 50% bonus 2-handed damage, and this only gives a paltry +15%. It should be double that at least. It also shouldn't max out at level 50.
Again, im asking how many TP do you have !? cap at 50 = good, the % could be increase to 20, max. Why would a warden have as much weapon mastery as a warrior AND a pet to help him??
-Explosion of Power: Good as is.
-Elven Guidance: One of only two abilities I have put no tp into, with good reason. This skill is absolutely terrible. Since this is a mana regeneration skill, it shouldn't have an activation cost. It should also last 20 seconds, and restore a % of total mana, instead of a static amount. (Let's say it starts at 2% at level 1, and maxes at 10%.) It also shouldn't be a chance, you should be guaranteed to regain mana with every hit your pet inflicts. (This should fix the warden's mana problems to a large extent.)
never used it either
-Cross Chop: The mana cost of this skill should be reduced by around 20%.
Fine as is, i'd rather see a Fan-shapped AoE than a straight line AoE though.
Pet Skills:
-Punch: Needs to generate more aggro for the Oak Spirit at higher levels. As it is now, I can easily overcome any aggro from my pet (without a tiered weapon, mind you).
No point in seeing a pet tank for you, maybe make it a wd/d or wd/m elite? but not for all wardens..
-Crystalline Acceleration: This should be increased to 10% increased attack speed to become just as useful as the Nature Crystal's other ability.
a CONSTANT 8% is more than enough..
-Entangle: The duration should be doubled to 10 seconds and the cooldown should be decreased to 45 seconds. I have also noticed that sometimes this doesn't stop the enemy from attacking, so please look into that. This should work on normal enemies and elites, but not bosses.
Should be a warden skill and not a pet skill, but only usable when spirit of the oak is out..it often takes WWAAAYYY too much time for the pet to reach the target and then be able to cast it.
-Sepal Stab: Needs to do more damage.
nope, fine as is
-Magical Interference: Mostly good as is, but the skill gives no indication of how long the debuff lasts. Depending on how long the skill lasts, the cooldown might need to be reduced.
should be a warden skill not a pet skill like i mentioned for entangle.
-Crystalline Protection: Good as is.
D. Warden/Warrior Elites
I would say that most of the attack skills are overpowered, but the devs just did the same thing to the knight skills, so I guess they are even now.
Not really overpowered, hits hard enough to generate aggro without too much pattack. Also, you cant DPS as Wd/W since you generate too much aggro so it'S fine as is.
-Double Chop: Fine as is.
-Beast Chop: Fine as is.
-Ire: Absolutely useless. This skill should be replaced altogether. My idea is to have the skill called Thorn Mastery, which adds aggro to thorny vine for every level invested in it, adds a 4 second taunt effect to it, and also adds extra aggro to Briar Shield attacks.
Shows you never tanked...Ire is really usefull, but should be increased to 10 seconds, 5 seconds is really short for a taunt.
-Immortal Power: Pretty Good, but the cooldown could be reduced a little, the duration should be increased to 20 seconds, and the mana cost needs to be increased.
Great in PvE, sucks in PvP. No clue how to make it work in PvP without nerfing it in PvE. Players hit a lot more and a lot faster than bosses, it takes less than 3 seconds to get hit 3 times...duration should not be increased, mana cost is % based, it does NOT need an increase.
-Pulse Mastery: Good as is.
-Resilience of Life: Good as is.
-Will Attack: The mana requirement should be increased a little bit.
nope
-Coat of Arms: The mana cost needs to be increased, and the duration should be increased to 30 seconds with a cooldown of 2 min (currently 20 sec with 3 min cooldown).
no on the mana cost. and it's fine as is.
M. Closing / Misc. Thoughts
1. Warden Thoughts
Pets need to get all of the movement speed buffs when the player gets them. They also need to run slightly faster (like 2% faster or less) than the player, so they can catch up to players.
Agreed, pets should be as fast or 10-15% faster than the master's speed WHEN SUMMONED. I'm gonna agree with you on that.
Pets also need to get better pathfinding so that they stop aggroing every mob in the area. Luckily, there is an easy round-about solution. Just make every pet not attract aggro until it attacks. Once it attacks aggro is generated like normal.
meh
This is the class that needs the most help. The devs tried to balance it, but basically just made Chiron absurdly powerful without changing much else.
i disagree
*Also, wardens get somewhat screwed in pvp combat because to become fully buffed they must summon a pet (4 seconds(with the HoS set-skill) sec cast, 15% mana), sacrifice it for a buff (instant cast), then summon another pet (another 4 seconds(with the HoS set-skill) sec cast, 15% mana). That is fine for pve (slightly annoying, but fine), but when playing pvp on a small map you don't have that much time before you are attacked again, especially if you respawn right in front of enemy players. That is why I strongly suggest making the warden pet sacrifice buffs (Power of the Oak, Protection of Nature, and Heart of the Oak) work without needing to summon the pet first. That way, wardens only have to summon one pet, not two.
agreed
*The Warden weapon skill levels (default v button) also need to be adjusted. Wardens are supposed to use 2-handed weapons, but their 2-handed axe and sword skills max out at an absurdly low level, while a weapon they can't even use (wands) is their highest specialty.
agreed
4. Taunt Effects in PvP
Someone else had a great idea in another thread (sorry, I don't remember the name). Basically, he/she argued that taunt effects should have the same effect on players as on mobs. In other words, if someone is taunted, he/she is forced to target whoever used the taunt for a certain amount of time. Obviously, the effect time would be reduced in pvp (similar to what happens to stun and stasis abilities).
agreed
Friday, October 21st 2011, 9:19pm
@Pizzoof
I don't have time to go through all of your points right now, so I will just stick to the major stuff. Potws might be a filler attack now, but that is only because it sucks compared to most other classes' dps skills. Potws and CC are the only two direct attack skills a warden has (discounting elites), so they have to be a bit more than filler.
Why should they be more than a filler? Any Wd (maybe except wd/d, it's the only warden i never bothered to look at) can have a good rotation that will output a good amount of DPS USING PotWS. Boosting PotWS's DPS would only make wardens boring and make r/wd and w/wd overpowered. PotWS is equal to Slash or Shadowstab in a way. Maybe less stronger but way more spammable.
The oak walker might scale well now, but I can guarantee you that it isn't as powerful as Chiron. Chiron does about 35K per hit right now unbuffed, which can 2 hit anything my level. With Explosion of Power on, that goes up to 45K or more. Plus, it has a fairly good dodge rate and crit rate, and it literally never misses.
Oak Walker might scale now? LOL. Have you ever ran any instance before (not counting HoS, ZS, HoDL)? If you chiron hits for 35k a hit it means you're not really geared. Both Oak Walker and Chiron scale the same way. Chiron only has a higher base damage. BUT Oak Walker scales of crit also. The more you gear up the closer Oak Walker will get to Chiron. Come talk to me when you actually run an instance or at least farm the first boss in Sardo or GC/H
Ire is useless, comparatively speaking, because it is a toned down and non upgradeable form of a warrior primary skill. The warrior version lasts for over 20 seconds, has a shorter cooldown, and doesn't take rage to activate. In other words, it is better in every possible way.
Shows you never played Wd/w as a real tank. Ire can save someone's as.s. Some classes generate LOTS of aggro during burst phase and that 5 sec taunt is often good enough to pull the aggro back before they get hit. Agreed it's only 5 seconds, but i'd take 5 second over nothing. Also, Ire DOES NOT require rage....it requires exactly 35MP. Or like tigerninja said
You can't use a warrior primary skill as a warden. ie. Ire is suddenly useful.
And the reason I say that the wd/w attacks are probably overpowered, is that it used to be a dps combo. The devs changed it into a tank combo, but didn't bother changing any of the damage from the attack skill elites. Therefore, it is now a tank which can also dish out a lot of damage.
Aggro mainly comes from DPS and Aggro skills. Remove the Wd/W's DPS and you remove it's ability to generate aggro. Trust me, there's no way you can stack enough pattack a lot more than tanks AND stack enough pdef/hp to actually tank something. Wd/w dishes out lots of damage because it doesnt have lots of taunts and Hatred Strike.
Granted, this is still balanced somewhat by the warden's general suckiness. And that is the main problem with the wardens right now: the wd/s and wd/w combos got huge boosts to their skills, but the general and primary warden skills are only slightly less bad then they have always been.
Wd's suckiness?? WTF? where do you see wardens that suck? where you there before 4.0.1? Warden are now equal to all the other DPS class. They're simply not as easy as a mage to play. Learn your class and you'll be able to DPS a lot. Even as wd/r or wd/m.
The only reason wd/s is OP is because of Chiron, and the reason for wd/w is that the devs forgot to change the dps skill damage to tank standards.
Wd/s is NOT OP, it's as good as any other warden. If the devs nerf the wd/w's damage like you say, they better increase the aggro modifier on the skills by a fukin lot...
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