Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "MMOCowboy;483362"

This will:

1. Let us finish our dungeon quests (I'm making this the primary reason).
   
2. Let us learn dungeons without obscencely overstatted gear.
   
3. Make dungeons seem less pointless to new players (who even tried FA as a dungeon more than once when they first started playing?)
   
4. Help with player retention (If I need to explain this...)
   
5. Return the "casual" part of casual players.
   

If easy mode were enough, I wouldn't be making this post. Just FYI.

If finishing dungeon QUESTS and quests only is your primary reason for suggesting this, then I can agree to a point. There are a ton of gamers in RoM that are quest and quest-title tycoons. At the same time I know a lot of these players that would prefer to get those end-game level quests, but are unable to. And we're talking strictly quests...because we're assuming their gearing needs are in a separate category, meaning gearing is a separate motivation for running the same instance.

I think there's value in having an easy mode where a player can get their quests and titles and learn the dungeon. Basically we have that now, but the way it's set up is better players drag the lesser players through. I'm sorry but I don't see how that's fun for either group of players. The "better" players want to play with other "better" players, with everyone in the group contributing. The "lesser" players want to be able to fight more and contribute more during the run, but can't. In the case of these "lesser" players though, running those instances are a must either because of quests, because they need the gear, or because they need the stats.

Originally the point of easy mode (imo) was a bunch of players who were not top geared could get together and run the instance on an appropriate scale. It's supposed to make sure everyone can enjoy the same instances and return to them to try harder and harder modes for better items and to challenge themselves. What really would need to happen is make sure the easy modes that already exist are truly easy modes. Easy enough so that we don't need someone suggesting there should be another, "supereasy" mode.
In the case of GCe, I feel that the easy mode is easy enough. It's endgame, but it's about the level of DoD. Not everyone can solo DoD, but with the introduction of crimson stats, you can surely find a group of players at your level to run DoD as a group. If you can do that, you can do GCe.
In the case of others like RT and KT, I'm not too sure... That's where I hear the most complaints about the "easy" mode. Maybe the easy mode was not easy enough...but let's be honest, RT/KT are still challenging instances even now.

EDIT: lol I kinda like how 90% of the replies in this thread immediately shifted to talking about how a "supereasy mode" would get you geared for nothing, when gear was not even once mentioned in the thread topic. Amazing the amount of paranoia in the player base

Now now gentlemen, there's no need to quarrel.

It is true that some players find dungeons and end game content challenging, with or without the item shop.

It is also true that some players are competitive end game using entirely f2p content.

As with most multiplayer games, RoM is a meritocracy. Players who work harder, who do more research, and who work better together will achieve more than stronger individual players or ones who are reticent to seek aid.

The current dungeon system represents a vast array of challenges for all skill levels and has been constantly reviewed and updated to reflect the changing needs of the community. That said, we always welcome feedback and suggestions regarding future updates or tweaks.

The problem is that since this is a massively multiplayer game, there will always be groups on the fringes of the various play styles. Some players want to butcher themselves on even rougher content, constantly challenging their limits in game. Some players just want to log in for a few hours a week and walk around some pretty zones. Some players want to experience all the game content without putting in the grinding required for end game dungeons.

It is frankly impossible to appease every single player or group, though we always try our best. The focus must always be on providing content and challenges that speak to the widest array of players possible, without alienating those who disagree.

I have moved this thread to the suggestion forum where it belongs, and please remember in your future discourse the things I have mentioned above. Thanks once again for all your input and effort into making RoM the best game for everyone involved!

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;483413"

I realize that the above was a bit snarky, but come on, at 67 you can't complete HotO easy???

lol that's the best thing about old content like HotO... the damage was %-based. I wish more damage in instances was %-based cause that has so much more potential to be flexible; even if you have a ton of HP, you're still losing the same proportionate chunk of it as you were when you only had a little bit of HP.

With HotO now, what makes the big difference is your overall power to inflict damage quickly. People can solo it because they have enough damage output to kill the boss before it uses enough %-based attacks to kill them (due to level 67 skills, weapons, etc). Plus the boss is like, what, level 50? 55? A 67 vs. a 55 is a pretty solid leg up in terms of dodge, resistence, and overall HP. Even so, I have seen some top level 67s "accidentally" die in HotO normal because they'll get careless. It's pretty funny.
Suppose you went into HotO and just stood there and let the boss whack on you for a few minutes (especially Medusa lol). Take note of how much HP you lose and over how much time. For a tank, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Others of you may be surprised.

Point being, if this guy is having trouble in HotO, it's fairly understandable. I wouldn't be so condescending about it.

Quoted from "EsxCape;483476"

lol that's the best thing about old content like HotO... the damage was %-based. I wish more damage in instances was %-based cause that has so much more potential to be flexible; even if you have a ton of HP, you're still losing the same proportionate chunk of it as you were when you only had a little bit of HP.

He-he... percent based damage rocks. Once I was in Barren Cave (can I say cave here on the forums? :p), and saw a toon fighting Tifka. I figured he couldn't take her, so I'll stand and watch and rescue him if he gets too low.

Next thing I know, I am at res point. Most embarrassing death I had, considering I was L62 at the time.

lol....

I think that one of the worst is Windmill Basement... you receive 3 % based hits that are enough to kill you... so after first time I got killed, it took me time to figure out what happened... (didn't even see first hit, and was already dead )

Quoted from "vfwiffo;483482"

He-he... percent based damage rocks. Once I was in Barren Cave (can I say cave here on the forums? :p), and saw a toon fighting Tifka. I figured he couldn't take her, so I'll stand and watch and rescue him if he gets too low.

Next thing I know, I am at res point. Most embarrassing death I had, considering I was L62 at the time.

Hopefully that other player didn't see you. xD rofl

I feel like a %-based system would solve so many problems players complain about too... You've got the people that want more strategy involved in the game, people that want instances to scale to their gear level so it remains challenging, people that want PvP damage to be more fair and realistic, etc. They (RW) really should have extended this feature more.

Seriously who ever was working at RW during the level 50 cap era knew what was up. I mean HotO, TT, HoS, moa quests, level 50 elites...all that cool puzzle/strategy-based content was awesome. Too bad we don't see more of that. =/

It has been proven that a F2P, can reach end game content. The difference is the F2P trades their time compared to RL money investment. A F2P casual player that only wants to quest for a few hours a day won't get there this decade.

Since Chapter 3 Rw has been increasingly catering to to the F2P players with accelerated leveling, Shells, Mementos, and events that give away items needed to mod gear. If you can spend the time, earn gold in game, network and be social (make friends) you can progress to end game.

I suspect some of this has to do with the tone you use in the actual poll at the top. Not all end gamers, or P2P players are elitists that won't help you, but the ones you target as the reasons of your misery will definitely avoid you.

Lol imagine if they had started during ch1 ...when the game had a challenge.


*pulls up pants and fixes glasses*

back in the day when I started on server launch... there was nothing in the AH, no info sites like there is today, clean green stats were the same price as todays bunker stats and yellow stats were only rumors.( and when we got there they never dropped clean like they do today(and APS were not implemented), we had to run dungeons over and over in the hopes that ONE of our party members would walk away with a clean stat/piece of gear

now...they have xp events, multiple zones to level and a resource pool so vast you can have your hand held from start to finish.

It seems to me that you just dont seem to enjoy the game, or even the class you're playing.

You can EASILY get to endgame MUCH faster than any of the players who were playing when the content was released.


So my advice would be to either just chill out and enjoy the game and making friends, push through content together and just have fun brah


I'm a purist, not an elitist.


-sas

I voted "No, I'm an elitist and laugh at you all!" for the eff-of-it. I agree that RW has made all the instances ridiculously aggressive even at noob mode. I hate going to instances for two reasons, well three.

1) Ridiculously hard. #2 & 3 solve the answer to your question as to why I didn't/don't go with an uber group.

2) The server I am on hates pug groups, are too greedy, and feel they are pulling someone. Then when, in a pug group, when a drop drops, someone "accidentally" forgets to set type as dice. Usually that someone has it set for dice until ready to pick then sets to ffa and quickly changes it back without no-one knowing because of the action going on. These groups suck, and usually you wind up dying and not getting a res because g1 has the elites with a good healer. Leaving g2, and if full, g3-g6 with a crappy healer that doesn't know how to heal. Usually with the secondary groups healers dying and the first group (which is the greedy group) not ressing others unless part of their guild. Basically in one simple sentence, people are greedy and don't like to help one another out. I noticed that the minute I arrived in SJF before the shells got put in game.

3) The server is dead. Which is the case on Palenque. RW AND FA did too little too late. They should have listened to the complaints and reverted or fixed the problems when they arose instead of now when the server base has already been lost. Even though it was a small nerf on the shell gear, it was enough of a ripple built on top of the multiple ripples that were pent up to create a huge tsunami.

Quoted from "EsxCape;483476"

lol that's the best thing about old content like HotO... the damage was %-based. I wish more damage in instances was %-based cause that has so much more potential to be flexible; even if you have a ton of HP, you're still losing the same proportionate chunk of it as you were when you only had a little bit of HP.

With HotO now, what makes the big difference is your overall power to inflict damage quickly. People can solo it because they have enough damage output to kill the boss before it uses enough %-based attacks to kill them (due to level 67 skills, weapons, etc). Plus the boss is like, what, level 50? 55? A 67 vs. a 55 is a pretty solid leg up in terms of dodge, resistence, and overall HP. Even so, I have seen some top level 67s "accidentally" die in HotO normal because they'll get careless. It's pretty funny.
Suppose you went into HotO and just stood there and let the boss whack on you for a few minutes (especially Medusa lol). Take note of how much HP you lose and over how much time. For a tank, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Others of you may be surprised.

Point being, if this guy is having trouble in HotO, it's fairly understandable. I wouldn't be so condescending about it.

I don't disagree with you entirely EsxCape, but that was partially my point. Percentage based damage actually makes HotO easier for the less geared and harder for the lazy overgeared who aren't paying attention. There is actual strategy involved in hoto, it is much less of a gear check than a lot of the higher instances.

And OP wasn't referring to HotO normal where he could easily be killed by a worm no matter how uber his gear is, but easy.

I never farmed HotO for clean t4 blues, but a heck of a lot of people did, and plenty more farmed it for mems when they weren't geared enough for DoD. Not being able to complete HotO easy with a level 67 toon prompted me to ask sincerely if snarkily, what the heck is OP wearing?? If he wants to skip ALL gearing til he can go endgame, he's gonna be naked and inexperienced forever.

A 67 in quest gear with a bloody root of nightmares or other 60 crafted weapon tiered to 6 or 7 shouldn't have any problems in HotO easy with just a few people equally ungeared, if they glance at any number of HotO strat guides.

Quoted from "svrStewey;483631"

I voted "No, I'm an elitist and laugh at you all!" for the eff-of-it. I agree that RW has made all the instances ridiculously aggressive even at noob mode. I hate going to instances for two reasons, well three.

1) Ridiculously hard. #2 & 3 solve the answer to your question as to why I didn't/don't go with an uber group.

2) The server I am on hates pug groups, are too greedy, and feel they are pulling someone. Then when, in a pug group, when a drop drops, someone "accidentally" forgets to set type as dice. Usually that someone has it set for dice until ready to pick then sets to ffa and quickly changes it back without no-one knowing because of the action going on. These groups suck, and usually you wind up dying and not getting a res because g1 has the elites with a good healer. Leaving g2, and if full, g3-g6 with a crappy healer that doesn't know how to heal. Usually with the secondary groups healers dying and the first group (which is the greedy group) not ressing others unless part of their guild. Basically in one simple sentence, people are greedy and don't like to help one another out. I noticed that the minute I arrived in SJF before the shells got put in game.

3) The server is dead. Which is the case on Palenque. RW AND FA did too little too late. They should have listened to the complaints and reverted or fixed the problems when they arose instead of now when the server base has already been lost. Even though it was a small nerf on the shell gear, it was enough of a ripple built on top of the multiple ripples that were pent up to create a huge tsunami.

Stewey, I'm sorry you have had such a rough time, but I don't think your experience is necessarily typical of Palenque alone, more typical of RoM in general or even MMO's.

Pugs are tricky everywhere, which is why people tend to prefer guild runs. Sometimes you get lucky and end up in a group of incredibly kind and generous high level people and sometimes you get greedy buggers.

My first ever DL run was a pug, and we were being helped by two of the top scouts on the server at the time. They explained all the strategy carefully and patiently, didn't get mad at us when we all died several times because we pulled wrong or healed too slowly. They took no loot for themselves and Chthonian actually gave me two OD robes he just had sitting in his backpack after the run was over, a Maxim's to wear and a Flame robe for the set skill. He didn't know us from Adam.

I have tried to pay that kindness forward over the years, and I like to pick up newbies off the side of the road and run them through stuff like that, I give away as much gear as I can afford, and I try and teach people stuff the way Chth and Roxie taught me and Noto. And I know I am not the only highbee that does this by any means.

I've also been in terrible pugs like the one you described, where the highbees showboat and get the lowbees killed, steal all the loot and just generally behave like jerks. If and when that happens, I leave group and choose not to run with those people again. All I ask for in a pug is for everyone involved to do their best to listen and treat each other with respect and kindness.

Stewey, if you need help with something, whisper me in game. I don't have as much time as I used to, but I'll do my best to help you out if I can.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;483679"

I don't disagree with you entirely EsxCape, but that was partially my point. Percentage based damage actually makes HotO easier for the less geared and harder for the lazy overgeared who aren't paying attention. There is actual strategy involved in hoto, it is much less of a gear check than a lot of the higher instances.

And OP wasn't referring to HotO normal where he could easily be killed by a worm no matter how uber his gear is, but easy.

I never farmed HotO for clean t4 blues, but a heck of a lot of people did, and plenty more farmed it for mems when they weren't geared enough for DoD. Not being able to complete HotO easy with a level 67 toon prompted me to ask sincerely if snarkily, what the heck is OP wearing?? If he wants to skip ALL gearing til he can go endgame, he's gonna be naked and inexperienced forever.

A 67 in quest gear with a bloody root of nightmares or other 60 crafted weapon tiered to 6 or 7 shouldn't have any problems in HotO easy with just a few people equally ungeared, if they glance at any number of HotO strat guides.

The fact that HotO was strategy based was why it was and still is hard for many players. Unlike the many burn run based instances that came after it. Percent based damage doesn't favor anyone since the proportion of lost HP from attacks is the same for everyone.

However, he is talking about quests. Not gear. I think he made it very straight-forward when he said the only purpose this "supereasy mode" would serve is quest completion and nothing else. Not gear, not stats, not bragging rights, not progression. Quests and quests alone.

I've also been playing for enough years to notice the change in easy modes in various instances. The newer easy modes are not as easy as in others. For example, GCe is a really good model of an easy mode, as is the easy mode for DoD. The easy mode in RT is a bad model. The easy mode in KT is a bad model. I don't even think WA has an easy mode. In general, there needs to be some kind of consistency. I can agree to that much.

If I were to expand on the OP's idea (tentatively), I'd say that instead of asking for an easier Easy mode, I'd ask for a Training mode. So when you choose the instance difficulty the choices would be: Hard, Normal, Easy, Training. The Training mode would have zero drops except for quest drops and would be easier than the Easy mode or use %-based damage. In other words the only benefit would be to complete instance quests and learn the instance strategy and layout.
As someone mentioned earlier, the instance quests are not directly connected to zone progression quest chains. Since this is the case, I fail to see how such an option would be a threat to the paranoid endgamer demographic.

EDIT: Oh and not all servers have a population that supports PUGs anymore. I have a character on a server where there is literally no more PUGs and limited runs even in guilds. If I can't solo it, I'm not running it (at least not anymore). And that's an issue that's going in a completely different unrelated direction with no easy solution.

"For the price of 10 transport runes, all mobs are instantly killed and bosses are blindfolded with hands tied behind their backs."

Quoted from "sfvictor;483708"

"For the price of 10 transport runes, all mobs are instantly killed and bosses are blindfolded with hands tied behind their backs."

Funny you should mention that because that item exists. Although it isnt for transport runes and it isn't currently in the cash shop. I'm sure you meant it to be sarcastic or just trolling, but coincidentally RW has already crafted this (nor is it a new construction; it's been around for at least a year and a half, being upgraded with each new patch release). It is effective on all instances in the game up to and including Grafu Castle, Sardo Castle, and Tomb of the Seven Heros. Whether or not they will choose to sell it is not yet apparent, but it is certainly within their control and I'm not one to rule them out on such actions.
Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

Exhibit C:

Exhibit D:




On a side note, whether or not high level or endgame players support easy routes doesn't really matter in the long run. For an MMO to be successful requires catering to a diverse audience, not just those who like a challenge. As MMOCowboy's suggestion is not a detriment to the endgame community and nor does it affect those who wish to challenge themselves and nor does it remove any pre-existing content, there's really no reason as to why it should be devalued.

Would I use the type of option he is suggesting? Debatable. When I run instances it is usually with other people. However the amount of players in the community that are obsessed with collecting quests titles, myself included, is certainly extensive enough to justify such a model. It would also favor under populated servers who don't always have the luxury of running instances with others.

Let me add, that as a new player, it can be a daunting task to even find a group of people your level to group with, for anything. My 29/26 wd/s on Govinda has been in a grand total of one group, and the three of us weren't even together. He invited me, and ran along his merry way. Neither he, or the other person, responded to group chat. It wasn't so much a group, but more of a xp share in Aslan south. And that happened just yesterday. So, it is all well and good to say get a group and go do it, but it seems hard to find them at low level. And the limiting of a world chat channel to paying to use it seems detrimental to finding people.

There is several things I still haven't done. I wandered into Forsaken Abbey at level 20, and promptly got raped by three level 19 mobs that ganged up on me when I tried to pull. I couldn't get a group for it, so I ignored it. I tried Crafty Bernok at 21 when i got the quest, and after I respawned, I abandoned the quest. I came back again at level 26 or 27, and I think I managed to get him to maybe 80 or 90% before I respawned with debt. I decided to check him out on the wiki, and found out he has 77k HP. That seems a tad excessive for a "level 20" quest, doesn't it? Ancient Dreamer (the Oblivion Shrine one) was more of the same. I got the named dragonfly in Aslan Valley to 97% before he toasted me, iirc. I didn't even realize that Necroplis of Mirrors was an instance zone until I zoned in (and saw it say normal mode, how do you choose the mode?). I got a quest that said level 30, and the first mob I saw was level 37. I figure if it is anything like the Abbey (I still haven't done it), I should come back maybe at 50 to try it. Of course any gear I get will be useless, the xp/tp non-existent, but at least I can say I did it. Right? Right?

Perhaps the quest mode version wouldn't be such a bad idea. If it sees you are solo, it spawns the quest version of it, so at least you can attempt this stuff near the level the quest says it is. The game seems less than noob friendly. It also seems to encourage allot of solo play, and then randomly throws the "must-group" element at you. But it seems all the groups are for the 50+ crowd.

Did FA, NoM, MA, Clops, and KS all at level "required" and no stats, but I did this back in Chap 1 when 50 was cap and there was no OMG gear. I don't think that it is a matter of easier just lack of new players needing said content. You will be hard pressed to find 6 lvl 19-25 players to do FA and that is mostly due to lack of players and CoO and Xav. Another problem is relevance to higher end players who have no need to turn around and do Hoto and below other than to help with quests.

If there was a super easy cupcake mode I dont think players should get any purple drops or mems, but just learn dungeon and complete quests. "Quest Gear" would drop which would according to you would wear to do these dungeons. Dirty statting, Mem farming, P. Shells, and "help" from us elitists make life easier for f2p and requires little effort and saves a lot of time. My guild helps low lvl players complete hard quests in every dungeon and while doing so pass on gear so they arent wearing "wet toilet paper" for gear. Find a guild that will help you and if you dont want to be ran through gear up and if you dont want to do that look for a PUG and if you cant/wont do that just walk away.

This game cant and wont support anyone but the top 10% (1% if you are part of the protests) and if there are other ways to do said things then why would FA make a cupcake mode. You should play a game for fun and not "force" a change to make it fun

Quoted from "MMOCowboy;483760"

...

Um, I said the dungeons would be doable in quest gear. My primary reason was because I wanted to be able to complete dungeon quests both on my existing character and new characters.

I don't believe anyone that says they level to 19, find 5 other people that leveled to 19 in quest gear and run FA, same for NoM, or any other dungeon.

You're full of it. You didn't do it like that, you stacked stats until you were able to do it. There was no other option. There is no other option. This aims to change that. So, now that you've ranted, raged, and represented I'll ask you the obvious question...

How many players play this game vs. how many players read the forum vs. how many players voted?

Do you understand what I mean by 99% yet? What would benefit this game and the players more?

Yep I agree with you. If I didn't agree with you I wouldn't be defending your thread. lol

The last thing this game needs is a super easy mode. Heck, compared to what it was 2 years ago it's stupidly easy.
No, you can't be f2p, not buy diamonds from other players and still expect to set foot in places beyond DoD or WA easy. However you can still get to level 67, access any over world area you want, and run a up to DoD/DL level without putting one red cent into this game.

You have phirus shells and stats, CoO/Xaviera and the quest gear from it, OD blue sets at level 55, 60, and 65, puries and +12 jewels available from the 'f2p section' of the item shop. What more do you need?