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1

Saturday, January 21st 2012, 9:45am

New Goldsink?

Question. Why doesn't RoM put Megaphones for sale for like 100K each in a vendor with other quick consumables like that?
61/55/50 D/W/R

2

Saturday, January 21st 2012, 10:22am

cause then they wouldn't make diamonds off their sales of them


Personally I think if they WERE to make a gold sink out of something that normally costs diamonds, it should be the rental function for bank tabs and backpacks. You can get rental vouchers through rubies anyway which can be earned from spending tokens... not to mention they're a common reward for festival turn-ins... adding the option to rent time with gold just seems logical to me.

3

Saturday, January 21st 2012, 5:40pm

Oh please god not megaphones... there's already enough world spam and it costs diamonds. Can you imagine how bad it would be if everyone and their brother had access to as many megas as they wanted for as cheap as 100K/per?
Borella - 100 W/M/S/R/P/K
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4

Saturday, January 21st 2012, 9:57pm

That's the point. Sink tons of gold into mega's, Everyone has them, total server gold drops, prices drop, economy stabilizes then the NPC leaves. It wouldn't be something that was there ALL the time, like 2-4 days out of the year, which will cause a MASS rush of people buying as many as they can. And if people don't like looking at WC, you CAN turn it off >.>
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5

Saturday, January 21st 2012, 10:31pm

Gold sinks of any kind don't work because they don't address the root cause of the problem; RoM money is spontaneously generated from the aether. It doesn't matter how high the interest rates are, if the government keeps printing more and more money, inflation will never be controlled. The same applies to a virtual economy. The only viable way to fix the problem is to set a fixed amount of money for the server and find a reliable way to cycle "saved" money back into that system. Only then will existing "gold sinks" like shop repair, potion purchases, auction house surcharges, etc. be able to keep the economy under control.

6

Monday, January 23rd 2012, 4:15am

Like a Tax system maybe? Players who have over 20M gold are charged a 50K rent on their house per week, that puts back a total of 2,600K per player, per server per year. Numbers and tax brackets may need to be changed, but I think this is an Idea I might put some actual time and thought into.. Good call Midknight.

I still think that Mega's would be a decent temporary solution. Once every few months an NPC spawns in Varanas offering Megaphones at 100K each, thats 1M to send 10 messages over WC. Lots of people have flat out convo's over WC, so they get used up faster than people think i believe.

However a "server gold cap" sounds like a good idea if we can find a way to regulate it and prevent people from taking advantage of the system.
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7

Monday, January 23rd 2012, 5:28am

Quoted from "AngelIsrafel;504254"

Like a Tax system maybe? Players who have over 20M gold are charged a 50K rent on their house per week, that puts back a total of 2,600K per player, per server per year. Numbers and tax brackets may need to be changed, but I think this is an Idea I might put some actual time and thought into.. Good call Midknight.

I still think that Mega's would be a decent temporary solution. Once every few months an NPC spawns in Varanas offering Megaphones at 100K each, thats 1M to send 10 messages over WC. Lots of people have flat out convo's over WC, so they get used up faster than people think i believe.

However a "server gold cap" sounds like a good idea if we can find a way to regulate it and prevent people from taking advantage of the system.


Selling Megas won't work because there are already established "unofficial" world chat private channels set up. It'll absorb marginal gold at best. Simply taxing players with over a certain amount of gold also has to be carefully done because they'll just create a number of mules. The biggest problem are the "gold hoarders" who accumulate gold for themselves and hold on to it. It's more of a problem if they quit the game with a large amount of gold in their pocket as that money will likely never re-enter the economy. What would be needed are the following:

1) A "set" amount of gold per server, possibly sub-divided into each area. Shopkeepers will have a "till" and if they have no money in the till, they can't buy items. When a shopkeeper is low on money, they'll charge more for their wares; when they have lots of cash on hand, the prices will drop somewhat.

2) "Operational taxes" such as Auction House surcharges, Production training fees, Elite Skill training fees, etc. will be regularly cycled into shopkeeper tills to simulate the NPC economic movement.

3) Diamond Purchases will have a "gold tax" amended to them. So, for example, if the tax is 100 gold per diamond, a cash shop item costing 9 diamonds would also require 900 gold.

4) Players inactive for a certain period of time will incur a gold tax in which a certain amount of their funds will be cycled back into the economy until it falls to a predetermined threshold.

5) Gold sent through the mail will incur a percentage tax. IE. if the tax is 2%, and you send 1,000 gold, it will cost an extra 10 gold to send it. The actual percentage used would be marginal for "normal" business transactions but substantial when people try to send very large gold amounts.

6) When large amounts of gold are being "hoarded", the game will compensate by flowing "extra" money into the economy. When the hoarded gold starts becoming available again, the extra money will be re-absorbed by simply not going into shop tills.

Free advice is seldom cheap. -Rule of Acquisition, #59

8

Monday, January 23rd 2012, 6:18am

Quoted from "midknight129;504268"

Selling Megas won't work because there are already established "unofficial" world chat private channels set up. I was unaware of that, but even then with the massive number of people who use WC regardless (At least on the server I play in) it'd be a way to sink gold into the shopkeeper till like you mention further down. It'll absorb marginal gold at best. Simply taxing players with over a certain amount of gold also has to be carefully done because they'll just create a number of mules. Instead of gold per character, gold per account, that way each time someone logs on and off their gold is recorded and their accounts are drained accordingly. The biggest problem are the "gold hoarders" who accumulate gold for themselves and hold on to it. It's more of a problem if they quit the game with a large amount of gold in their pocket as that money will likely never re-enter the economy. This is true, but the Inactive Account tax you proposed would prevent that. What would be needed are the following:

1) A "set" amount of gold per server, possibly sub-divided into each area. Shopkeepers will have a "till" and if they have no money in the till, they can't buy items. When a shopkeeper is low on money, they'll charge more for their wares; when they have lots of cash on hand, the prices will drop somewhat. I don't personally think that limiting servers to a "set" amount of gold is a good idea, it'd discourage new players and even then there are still just a few people who would horde most of the gold. Instead of a Server wide gold pool, just keep the shopkeepers with large tills that get refilled every few days (think of it like a gold delivery)

2) "Operational taxes" such as Auction House surcharges, Production training fees, Elite Skill training fees, etc. will be regularly cycled into shopkeeper tills to simulate the NPC economic movement. There already are Auction house taxes which are fair i think. As for Production training fee's it already costs a ton of money to level up professions and all of the crafting professions require gold to make items.

3) Diamond Purchases will have a "gold tax" amended to them. So, for example, if the tax is 100 gold per diamond, a cash shop item costing 9 diamonds would also require 900 gold. This is just a bad idea period in my opinion. If we put a cash tax on Diamonds, people won't want to buy diamonds anymore and the game will just die. I guarantee you if there is a Gold tax on diamonds, players would rage harder than when they incorporated a % mana cost to EVERY spell.

4) Players inactive for a certain period of time will incur a gold tax in which a certain amount of their funds will be cycled back into the economy until it falls to a predetermined threshold. I like the idea, i think an inactivity period of 3 months starts draining a minor amount of gold and the amount increases every 3 months to a maximum of 12 months where it caps out how much it takes out every so often.

5) Gold sent through the mail will incur a percentage tax. IE. if the tax is 2%, and you send 1,000 gold, it will cost an extra 10 gold to send it. The actual percentage used would be marginal for "normal" business transactions but substantial when people try to send very large gold amounts. Yes, gold sent through mail by itself should be taxed, but items, COD and things like that shouldn't get a tax along with them.

6) When large amounts of gold are being "hoarded", the game will compensate by flowing "extra" money into the economy. When the hoarded gold starts becoming available again, the extra money will be re-absorbed by simply not going into shop tills. With the idea's you've suggested it seems to me that the only way a gold hoarder would be able to horde gold would simply be to not buy Diamonds, play frequently, never send things over mail, never train professions or sell things on the AH. Which a lot of players do as it is, which is why i suggested the 50K rent a week for players over 20M on their account. It wouldn't be per character, but per house (6 characters, 50K for all the houses) This way new players won't have to worry about their gold dissipating over a week off and players who have 1 house have an advantage over players with 6.

The values I gave out are based on what I've seen on my server, so it is likely they would have to be adjusted by server. Even if it caused mass migration to other servers, players would still have to start over.


Free advice is seldom cheap. -Rule of Acquisition, #59


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61/55/50 D/W/R

mrmisterwaa

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9

Monday, January 23rd 2012, 7:25am

Why is having 5.5billion gold a bad thing...? >.>

After playing for over a year and a half, the least I can do is have a fortune.

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10

Monday, January 23rd 2012, 12:49pm

Quoted from "mrmisterwaa;504298"

Why is having 5.5billion gold a bad thing...? >.>

After playing for over a year and a half, the least I can do is have a fortune.


Because money is like water. Let it sit where it is and it becomes stagnant and breeds mosquitoes. But let it flow freely and it becomes a force that grinds down even the hardest stones. This is reflective of the big problems in real economies; a small portion of the percentage, about 1%, has more money than they know what to do with and they hoard it. They sequester it away from the economy so that it can't fulfill its purpose. This harms economies. Then, in response, the government prints new money to cover for the absent money. This leads to inflation.

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11

Monday, January 23rd 2012, 11:01pm

one thing that adds money to the economy is quests...this may not really be all that much money, but just doing quests from 1-50 gets you in the range of 2-3 million gold. and where does this gold come from? the magic money machine that makes the game spit out gold. if you recycled the gold, how will you cover the cost of the people questing? if they don't buy anything from other players, and have a combo that does not need potions, the only way that it will go into the system is when they decide they want to fix their gear. i do not suggest that you make the cost of fixing gear more expensive, that will just give new player a much more hard time, because we all know that endgame players don't even use vendors to fix their gear, they just hammer it.

the best gold sink i can think of is having phirius tokens be able to be bought with gold. that way frogster is not losing any diamond sales. this will also make the phirius shop more used and increase rubie sales. but you can still have necessary items only available in the diamond shop, like +12/16 jewels, golden hammers, abl's, etc... this will keep the endgame community continuing to buy diamonds, but will create a gold sink for unnecessary/vanity items, which most of the items in the phirius shop already are.
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12

Monday, January 23rd 2012, 11:50pm

Megaphones for gold? Are you kidding? This would be gold-spammer heaven. Certainly don't need to see their spam all the time in world chat too; get enough of that every time you enter Logar or go near Varanas.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.


13

Tuesday, January 24th 2012, 12:42am

A fixed amount of gold per server would work, but it would also be quite challenging to implement this late in the game. That is not to say that difficulty is any reason it couldn't or shouldn't be attempted, but to point out that there may be a solution which would be smoother in transition.

Basically, the goal is for the amount of gold present in the economy to be stable. If the supply increases, prices will inflate, and gold drops in value. If the supply decreases, prices drop and gold increases in value. Stability can be maintained either by limiting the amount of gold in existence (essentially the equivalent to a RL gold-backed currency), or to make sure outflow is roughly equal to inflow. In this particular case I favor the latter, because Frogster already spontaneously generates an infinite number of "goods", so spontaneously generating gold seems of little consequence. If they're going to tamper with the economy, they may as well direct it all.

The actual inflow of gold is not extreme. As far as we can tell as players, quest rewards and vendored loot explain the vast majority of overall gold increase. Outflow includes purchases from a vendor, Snoop charges, AH fees, repair fees, and crafting costs.

Rather than decrease inflow, increase outflow, or add "taxes" (all of which essentially take something from players), I would prefer to see something new introduced. I would advocate gambling with gold, allowing players to "purchase" a random effect. Let players dye their equipment a random color, acquire a random buff, receive a random item from a list, etc. No one has to LOSE anything, because Frogster generates "value" out of thin air. I don't think most of the gambling prizes should be any of the major sources CS income. Perhaps they could use a few items from the CS, particularly those that never actually sell, but most of the gambling rewards should be new ideas unique to that particular "list."
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14

Tuesday, January 24th 2012, 2:03pm

heh I think a gold sink should be that those Fusion Stone sellers should ALSO sell Puris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3
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15

Tuesday, January 24th 2012, 2:54pm

Quoted from "EscapeTheFate03;504639"

heh I think a gold sink should be that those Fusion Stone sellers should ALSO sell Puris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3


I've suggested that before too, that they simply allow the possibility for all three stats on a random stone to be blank. This would also be an unbound puri, which would be extremely useful at times. Meh, it would probably screw the AH, what with the spammers. But personally, I think if we allow the spammers to control us and dictate our decisions, we've already lost.
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