Runes of Magic US / AU

This is a great idea but I would say too big of a change to get considered an option. We could start small by fixing the prices of items in the phirius token shop, and increasing the chances of acquiring tokens, just so the freeplayers aka 80%+ population of all free-to-plays don't feel like their time is being undervalued. The ruby bonus needs to be fixed as well, to match the amount of tokens players spend. The phirius token shop is a fantastic idea, so is the ruby shop, they just need some tweaking to feel like attainable rewards.

Rant: Most players have A.D.D. *tongue-in-cheek*, they need to see the usefulness of phirius tokens in the first week of playing the game, or they don't even make it out of howling mountains.

I agree that the cash shop is too much a necessity in this game, and I like your idea.

...but it'll never happen. Either deal with the cash shop as it is, or move on to another game.

@ Darkdevil725:

I'm not going to quote your message, as that would take up a lot of real estate here. I do have some thoughts, though. And they didn't hurt--much.

While I agree that there are some things (prices) in the IS that should be adjusted downwards, you have to remember that RoM is not a subscription game or a hybrid subscription/casual pay game. In a subscription game, everyone pays the same or similar prices monthly, and get or can get essentially the same items in-game. In a hybrid sub/casual pay game, the subscribers foot the majority of the costs of keeping the game running, and the casual pay players chip in to access content or acquire things from the game store (mostly cosmetic, but some useful things such as XP boosts) to improve or speed up their game play, level advancement, travel, et cetera.

RoM is built on a completely different model--microtransaction--which is how Frogster funds the game. It's not a new idea, but that's how they decided to do it, back in the day. And it works, so long as the *players* understand that there will be a relative few who *choose* to spend a large chunk of their disposable income on the game, a larger number who pay smaller amounts, and then a vast number who pay little, if any money at all.

And since RoM is or has turned into a gear-modification game, the microtransaction model works for it. I personally think that it's too late or would be impossible to change the payment model for RoM to even a hybrid sub/casual setup. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'd think that those so-called "elite players" who spend large amounts of money on RoM would balk at having to go to a subscription model, even if that model provided for a certain amount of diamonds monthly. They would almost assuredly have to buy additional diamonds to feed their "addiction".

And moving to a different payment model wouldn't change the *other* state of the game--continued problems with progressive lag in siege, other buggy content (yes, it's there), and the perceived "inequality" between the haves and the have-nots.

All I've got to say.

The real problem with CS is that it was made at the time level cap was 52 or 55 (not sure, much before my time.) Since then game was extended more then once, and now you have more then once to gear to get to level cap. In short, it's much more expensive then what it was back in day, but there are some shortcuts (such as shell gear).

Such a loaded topic, as an old player romage is correct the CS was created for chapter 1-2 back then there were no clean yellows. You bought fusion stones and played the match the greens game. All you had to do was get your gear to T3-T4 and +6. Endgame needed 12k hp.

And then in chapter 2 wings came out, prior to wings all you needed was the occasional plusing stones, no big sighs, no codex food, it was a simple life, but oh snap here were the wings, 500 diamonds for silver corona, and let me be clear double diamonds were once every 2 months. At this time RoM never had a single double XP event.

Chapter 3 was the game changer, clean stats!!! A few months later I could +12!!! OMFG!

Now OP to your statement at lvl 40-50 you need diamonds, that is false, for 5 mil gold I can pull enough fusion stones to fully dirty gear my alt with rt/kt/castle stats. I gave an hour long course to my guild this weekend on proper dirty stating at lvl 55. Truth is most people add junk yellows, so why not have 4 good stats and two green junk.

I suggest finding a guild with someone like me in it, the deal is Ill solo DoD/WA bit you send me the fusion stones, I'll sent them back with the stats. As for phirius tokens, get your plussers there. Or buy diamonds strictly for those.

Anyhow yes the CS is expensive, yes you can forget about Tosh unless you're going to the CS, but don't over exaggerate the already obvious.

I would not say this game is unplayable without spending money. I am level 70/67 32k hp 30k magic attack, Not much but i have never used a single dollar on this game. (sorry fa, to many things broken).

I do agree things cost way to much but without the cash shop the game would die. Normally i hate games with cash shops because it gets players a very unfair advantage but Rom is a bit unique. Yes there is a cash shop, yes players who use money can get ahead easy BUT there is nothing a paying player can do or get that a hard working player can't

A good amount of free to play games with cash shops have it where the free side can never get the items that paying players can giving them a permanent advantage.

With no monthly fees, just nice looking items will not make the amount they need.

I think most of you have kind of missed the OP's point. He didn't say the micro transaction model should be abandoned, or that he personally needs help with his gear. His join date is the oldest on the thread thus far (how's that feel, Mal?), so I think it is safe to assume he has some experience, and doesn't need to be given the new-player talk.

He brings up a very good point. I can think of half a dozen other games off the top of my head that have CS run not by gear upgrades, but entirely by cosmetics. Could such a model work in RoM? Why or why not? I think the fact that it works so well in so many other games is indication that if done right, it could also work in RoM.

I also agree that the CS was not excessive when endgame was dirty V stats, +6, and Tier 4 armor, and I'm guessing Tier 7/8 weapon. Now endgame is clean stats, +16, T7/T8 armor, and I see more and more T11 weapons. The cost of endgame is constantly increasing with every expansion. It remains a steady cost for those already at endgame, but it is overwhelming to new players. As Romage said, you almost have to fully gear multiple times before you'll ever see endgame.

I don't think these changes will ever happen, but I do think the OP is right. Something like this needs to happen, or RoM will eventually die. Businesses have to adapt to changing times if they are to be successful. Frogster is not doing a good job of adapting. They can't just keep doing the same thing forever and expect it to always work. Eventually a time will come when they are losing money, and it will be too late to make the necessary changes.

I don't feel that simple cosmetics are going to keep the diamond buyers coming. There does need to be some incentive to buy. Making your toon perform better is more incentive than making it look better.
I do know many people who skin their outfits, but the majority spend money on puris and plussing stones, not skinning.

I don't mind having to use the cash shop, it's pretty straight ahead and it is a choice whether you use it or not.
My only issue with the cash shop is that some things are so crazily over priced.

It's simple economics, if something costs too much less people buy it so the total cash flow is lower. When prices are more reasonable, more people buy so the cash flow is higher. Since cash shop items are non-material, you do not have a manufacturing cost to calculate, so if 75 people buy puris at 50d each, or 200 buy at 25 each, your investment is the same you just get a lot more buyers at 25d.

The CS needs to change somehow; it's the main reason I left the game 7 months ago, aside from the economy and ongoing bugs. I was spending too much money for too little progress, so I quit. Everyone knows there's a huge problem with the CS. If there were still only around two worthwhile tiers of gear at 55+, it might not be so bad, but it's gotten exceedingly expensive every time new content is released--especially since the expected tiers of gear go up each time, thus increasing the cost pretty steeply.

However, taking all p2w items out of the CS and leaving only costumes and other cosmetics is being way too optimistic. That will never happen. There needs to be some incentive to buy from the cash shop, and while, in some games, cosmetics do work, this is a gear progression game that requires using CS items to tier, refine, stat, and drill gear. They're not just going to give up their biggest moneymakers for things that bring in a lot less, and beyond that, much of the game would have to be completely redone for a change like this to take place. When has RW ever gone back over old content?

Your suggestion is nice, and I'm sure a lot of us wish the CS wasn't completely necessary like it is, but it's just not plausible. Eventually, after some more content releases, players coming into the game will no longer be willing to trek through the nearly unbearable climb that is gearing up, over and over. They'll lose more players than they bring in, and the game won't last. Reducing diamond prices would go a long way toward making the game more playable, for both p2p and f2p players, but we asked for reduced prices for a long, long time, and it never happened. I wouldn't expect it to at any time in the near future; not until they start losing too many players.

It's not going to change. Like I said, if it's that unbearable, quit. You won't be the first to leave because of how p2w this game is, and you certainly won't be the last.

Yeah, people can just quit, but as BJ pointed out you have a few join dates going back to 2009 posting. They post cause they have seen all of their friends quit, it chips away at the enjoyment. And almost NO ONE leaves because something better came out. I have had close friends (some rl I've played with) say "I like it but it's too expensive" hell I've seen cheaper Cell phone plans.

I'm a heavy CS user, granted I can afford it but I have not spent a Dime since mid December. The three week sale was phoning it in, it ticked me off, and I noticed CS specials are even more expensive then the actual regular prices. Will I quit, no, but I'm showing them with my cash how disappointed I am with their direction, their punishment of paying players, their lack of presence. I feel all of this is intentional on their end, not to mention their exodus of staff is scaring me. Why am I going to put money in if they staff are dropping cause they know something we don't.

These are valid concerns, like SW lag, have you seen the Facebook page? That alone will scare new players. FI needs restructuring, damage control, and a good frontman with the ability to bring up moral. Either give us 110% or shut the servers down like so many are expecting.

FI you get what you put in, check my account, I've put more then enough in, as have many loyal players. We're the ones you need to listen too, not the f2p fanboys who hang on every GMs word and post about hamsters. As a business man I see the potential here, and it starts on your end, we have given for years, when is it your turn to give back. Anyhow I'm sure a fanboy will post "Everythingis fine, nothing to see move along"

Quoted from "refugee;506993"

I don't feel that simple cosmetics are going to keep the diamond buyers coming. There does need to be some incentive to buy. Making your toon perform better is more incentive than making it look better.
I do know many people who skin their outfits, but the majority spend money on puris and plussing stones, not skinning.

I don't mind having to use the cash shop, it's pretty straight ahead and it is a choice whether you use it or not.
My only issue with the cash shop is that some things are so crazily over priced.

It's simple economics, if something costs too much less people buy it so the total cash flow is lower. When prices are more reasonable, more people buy so the cash flow is higher. Since cash shop items are non-material, you do not have a manufacturing cost to calculate, so if 75 people buy puris at 50d each, or 200 buy at 25 each, your investment is the same you just get a lot more buyers at 25d.

I'm curious to know why you don't think cosmetics are enough incentive. Everyone wants to look cool, but not everyone wants to be an uberleet endgamer. Which really gives more incentive?

Many other games have nothing but cosmetics in their IS, and all the ones I can think of are much healthier games than RoM. RoM is still more fun for the time being, but competition is tougher than it was 2 years ago, and I don't see much evidence that Frogster has long-term plans to keep up with changing expectations. They barely have incentive enough to keep me playing for free, and certainly not enough for me to spend my money.

Now, no one in their right mind would make such a major change suddenly. The fact that it is a major change does not mean it has to be a shock to the economy or playerbase. You could start out by introducing many cool, never-before-seen skins, and permanently dropping the price of all equipment upgrades by 10%. Continue to add more skins and cosmetics, decrease upgrade costs, and gradually implement ways for players to obtain equipment upgrades by playing in the world. I can't think of any player, new or old, p2p or f2p who would complain about any of these steps.

So could RoM and the community handle these kinds of changes? I am confident that the answer is yes. Could Frogster handle planning, thinking, and working to keep up with a changing market? Yes, they could. Will they? We all know the answer, we just don't want to say it, or admit what it implies.

BJ, I did note that RoM is a gear-modding game. In fact, this is precisely what I said:

"And since RoM is or has turned into a gear-modification game, the microtransaction model works for it."

I don't think that it's possible to turn back the clock and *change* the way the game is currently set up. Since gear modding--clean statting and enhancing--is the end-all for endgame and near-endgame instances and (to some extent) mob and elite mob hunting, such IS items as puris, Attribute Purifying Stones, and BLs/ABLs are necessary must-haves in the IS. I don't think anyone believes that Frogster doesn't make a ton of money from such sales--far more than they would or could make from "cosmetic" items such as mounts and costumes. Even if you consider transport runes to be "cosmetic", I'd bet that those are a poor fifth (or well below that) when compared to sales of the "must-haves".

Frogster advertised RoM originally as "free to play". It is, up to a point. Even if you, or mrmisterwaa, don't buy diamonds with your own RL money, someone else has and you (or mrmisterwaa) have benefited from it. And since RoM is a competitor to a very well-known and very successful subscription game (we name no names here), the F2P/microtransaction model works. Perhaps it would have been better to begin with a hybrid subscription/MT setup. I'm sure that it's been considered by Frogster, and perhaps rejected as being too difficult for them (and for RW) to implement at this late date. I don't know for certain, and nobody from the Frogster front office has whispered into my cauliflower-like ear to let me know otherwise.

I also did point out, but didn't dwell on it, that there are things in the IS that could be priced somewhat lower. I could also point out, as other have elsewhere, that perhaps instead, diamond packages could be improved--plumped up a bit. Neither would hurt Frogster's bottom line, IMO, and might even spark a modest increase in the bottom line.

IMHO, if game required you to pay 5-10$ per month to keep up with upgrade, many more people would buy/play. Fact that you need 50-100$ per month in order to properly gear, or like many F2P spending 24/7 hours per week to grind the game and users (from dias) makes this game not appealing to mass of new players.

How much game changed, you can see from tiering of weapon. For end game instances even after tiering has been made easier (starting T4) it still means that you have to spend 50 bucks if you like to T10 or 150 bucks for that T11 everyone dreams off.

Game has a lot to offer, but reworked CS could in turn generate more money for Forgster if prices are more reasonable and you can fairly progress in game with less spent per month.

I am very doubtful that FEU will ever do any of those. They don't even have slight idea what should be in CS and deals are just getting more annoying, even for those who don't care to spend cash on ridiculous prices.

If you want more coins, are you playing the mini-games as well as Daily Quests?
You can earn allot of coins doing it that way instead of just Daily Quests.
And yes, all posts are read by someone other than just myself.

Game is turning into 'work without fun'.

Doing dailies, 3 mini games (Survival, Curse of Terror and Goblin Games) every day. Tell me where is fun in that if this even takes me only 1 hour to complete?! And doing it EVERY DAY it's just slowly turning me away from the game.

The problem is that even if you do all of this EVERY DAY (just like most of us are doing), you still have to heavily depend on CS for progress. As soon as this game is costing more then 15 bucks per month, you can write off a large number of population that will instead opt for different format game.

Quoted from "RoMage;507345"

IMHO, if game required you to pay 5-10$ per month to keep up with upgrade, many more people would buy/play. Fact that you need 50-100$ per month in order to properly gear, or like many F2P spending 24/7 hours per week to grind the game and users (from dias) makes this game not appealing to mass of new players.

Game has a lot to offer, but reworked CS could in turn generate more money for Frogster if prices are more reasonable and you can fairly progress in game with less spent per month.

I am very doubtful that FEU will ever do any of those. They don't even have slight idea what should be in CS and deals are just getting more annoying, even for those who don't care to spend cash on ridiculous prices.

Again, naming no games here, there are a couple which I've played in the past which the developer/publisher have changed from *very* limited F2P/subscription models to widely F2P/subscription/game card models. They're quite successful and are almost continually expanding. However, and this is a key difference: Neither of those games have items in their item malls for modding gear. Those games are *not* gear-modding games, and never have been. This is one reason why they were able to change to their current payment models. The subscriptions to these games provide a certain and specific number of store "points" per month to the subscriber, based on the subscription type--standard monthly or premium yearly--which can be spent on mainly "cosmetic" mall items. There are *no* items available that will permanently give a character a combat advantage in those games.

As I said previously, I do not think that Frogster could easily change their payment model to include a monthly subscription which includes a specific amount of diamonds every month which can be spent in the Item Shop, however attractive to the players this might be. It would be a bear for a relatively small company to manage, not to mention that it would need to be managed across three sets of regional servers (EU, NA, and AU.) Toss in the availability of various "diamond" cards (mostly different for all three regions), along with other diamond payment methods, and the perils to the players of using those methods.

IS prices are relative, and I've stated that yes, there are some items whose prices should be adjusted. However, considering the number of calls by players for "balancing" the game, perhaps increased prices for some items may be justified. After all, if you've purchased a diamond package, Frogster has already received your money. They get no additional money when you use your diamonds in the Item Shop, right?

But players with large amounts of disposable income (the "haves" or "1%") have a distinct advantage, in either PvE or PvP, over the "have-nots" who have less, or no RL money to spend. This is a fact, not an opinion. For example, I personally cannot afford to buy up transmutor charges in the IS so I can take a weapon up to T10 or T11. *That* is a fact which I must live with, and while it doesn't have a huge effect in PvE, it *does* in PvP (Guild Siege). I simply cannot be "equally geared" against a similarly-leveled character played by someone who has deep pockets. They have the advantage and ability to dig into those deep pockets in order to buy things from the Item Shop, or "sell" those diamonds to others for gold, so they can either buy gear or stats from the AH and improve *their* gear for Guild Siege and, obviously, for farming instances in order to acquire even better gear. I simply cannot compete, gear-wise. But I don't grind my teeth over it, or complain on a daily basis on the forums. (I'm not going to call anyone out here, but they know who they are.)

I whole-heartedly agree with BJhawk, the game can transition from my idea to darkdevil's idea, turning the Diamond shop into a convenience store instead of a dividing wall. The guys over at the new frogster support could really use a few more voices supporting the idea of this thread. They have been very receptive to everything I have been sending them, so I ask that more people give them a try. Please be polite, these guys are not the complaint department.


Brief Recap: The item shop needs to adapt to the current version of the game so that free players can actually enjoy the game too. Tokens and Rubies need to be more useful so that the game can retain a larger population of players. Free players are essential to the longevity of a free-to-play MMO.


Example: Introducing the arcane transmutor at lvl 10 only to realize how expensive and wasteful it is to use it before lvl 50+. The fun in an MMO should not be hidden at "end-game."

Quoted from "Malignatus;507479"

I simply cannot be "equally geared" against a similarly-leveled character played by someone who has deep pockets. They have the advantage and ability to dig into those deep pockets in order to buy things from the Item Shop, or "sell" those diamonds to others for gold, so they can either buy gear or stats from the AH and improve *their* gear for Guild Siege and, obviously, for farming instances in order to acquire even better gear. I simply cannot compete, gear-wise. But I don't grind my teeth over it, or complain on a daily basis on the forums. (I'm not going to call anyone out here, but they know who they are.)

Responding primarily to emphasized text.

It depends on what you mean by complain. Many players, myself included, buy few if any diamonds because the game does not offer enough reward for the cost. I can build myself a new computer and overflow my Steam library with awesome titles for what endgame could cost in RoM. I'm not complaining about that expense; I'm simply stating the facts. And the fact is, fun/cost (a.k.a. bang for buck) ratio is too low for me to spend much on RoM.

Additionally, many competing MMOs are offering ever higher fun/cost ratios, and the more I look around, the more RoM seems to be slipping behind the competition. One cannot over-emphasize that happy customers are paying customers. I'm a semi-happy customer: RoM is worth playing, but to me it is not worth paying. If Frogster can find ways to make me happier and the CS more appealing, I will start to spend money.

I do give kudos to the EU sales guys, because they finally removed the +16 Gashas which were a major turn off. The new attribute extraction is also a big step in the right direction. So they have made some good decisions lately, and I applaud their efforts. They need to continue this kind of innovation, and remember the bottom line: make us happy, and we spend our money here; frustrate us, and even if we continue to play RoM, we spend our money elsewhere. It really is that simple.