Runes of Magic US / AU

then atleast 1 alt toon will be put in the siege, and we're back at the thread with 2 words changed in your post. and then 2 toons, then 3 ... etc. Until it gets to the point where really small guilds that do exist might be banned from Siege just because theyre small although they do join siege.

Short: Will not work that way. The only real solution is better servers that actually CAN handle the load of more guilds that WANT to compete in siege so registering will become a non-issue or atleast not a fight for the lowest ping.

Quoted from "YomanROM;530387"

then atleast 1 alt toon will be put in the siege, and we're back at the thread with 2 words changed in your post. and then 2 toons, then 3 ... etc. Until it gets to the point where really small guilds that do exist might be banned from Siege just because theyre small although they do join siege.

Not to mention that currently a lot of guilds who log in 3, 4, 5+ ghost guilds into siege for the purposes of eternally sieging on "easy mode" often do log in alts, mules, crafting toon, etc... and just leave them in the castle anyway.

*sigh*

This again. Look, we (Eye of the Tempest) went up against a guild last night which, as I recall, was once one of Govinda's better guilds. We faced them one time previously, a little over 2 months ago.

And it seems that they have, or had, only 7 or so people willing to or available for siege, both times. And both times were ROFLstomps for us. In fact, and according to WarRecord for last night, we had a total of ten (10) kills, across four characters, out of a total of 27 characters in siege for us. Siege lasted all of five (5) minutes.

I think there were two factors in play. 1.) The point differential and 2.) people farming XP and TP during the day's event. Our point score was ~1500 higher than theirs. And a quick siege meant that the 7 players on their side could quickly go back to farming various zones and instances for XP and TP.

After siege, that's precisely what many of *our* members did. (From Saturday through almost the end of the event @ 0200 hours CDT Monday morning, I got my main toon's Priest class up from 64 to 67, farming XP and TP, and burning four daily reset tickets at the end of it. Yay me. Slightly better heals and a bit moar IB powah, woot.)

But I think last night's siege was an isolated case, for us.

I know there are several main guilds on Osha that have alt guilds. No names, of course, but they know who and what they are. Same thing on other servers. Do I want to see those guilds banned or suspended from siege? Nope. It's not a violation of the ToS. That in itself is and should be the main point of consideration. And it's obvious that it's not to some peoples' tastes. Yours, for example. But like many "issues" which are complained about on the forums, it is, in my opinion, a tempest in a teapot. Sound and fury with no substance.

Slightly off-topic and WRT YomanROM's comment: I don't think that it's the *servers* themselves that are at fault for siege's stability issues. It's not as if there aren't enough signup slots available. I believe that Frogster kept the number of slots at 300, while reducing the number of *toons* which can participate for any given guild--36, for stability's sake. I'll gladly take that particular tradeoff.

Here's an analogy for you: It's not that a dancing bear dances as well as it does, but that it can dance at all. Keep in mind that as originally envisioned and engineered, RoM wasn't intended to support cross-server battles of that size, along with a map the size which siege has, along with all of the constructs available for use--defense towers, siege engines of various types, in-siege upgrades, offensive scrolls available from the Throne, and so on. In that respect, and as much as it might pain some people to do so, let's give Runewaker and Frogster just a little bit of love for coming up with the concept, along with struggling--and fairly successfully--with all of the various issues that have plagued the system for the past couple of years.

We scream and rant and rave when siege doesn't work (witness the WC dramas), and we do the same thing here in the forums in threads just like this one. But we rarely, if ever, give the programmers and publisher the credit they *deserve* for creating, supporting, and *fixing* siege when it breaks or becomes mangled.

More than enough said.

Quoted from "YomanROM;530387"

Short: Will not work that way. The only real solution is better servers that actually CAN handle the load of more guilds that WANT to compete in siege so registering will become a non-issue or atleast not a fight for the lowest ping.

Honestly, in the US, registering is already a non issue. Anyone who wants to get in siege does, and if they don't, it's probably because they forgot to sign up. I'm about as far as you can get from the servers, and I get in siege every time with ease, not even clicking the button fast and sometimes being a few seconds late (ie on the login screen) when sign up begins.

Not being able to register is mainly an EU issue

Yeah i didnt actually check US siege registration myself but it sounded logically that the same problem may exist here, too. If the "we cannot register because there are too few slots available" doesnt exist alt guilds should be a non-issue too because there are still enough slots? (So this thread is more or less useless?)

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;530468"

Yall missunderstand the whole point of this. Alt Guilds that do not actually participate in Siege should not be allowed to sign up. Seeing that there are over 1440 guilds on Reni alone, and only 300 available slots for Siege that leaves out a lot of guilds that would love to get into siege. I will give in and say this, there is a direct possibility that half of the guilds on Reni are just Alt guilds, which still leaves over 720 possibly active guilds wanting in on siege. Out of those 720 possibly active guilds lets remove 10% due to them not beign at the level where they can participate. That still leaves 648 guilds. Now take those numbers and multiply then by the actual number of US servers and you get a possibility of over 3000 guilds attempting to get into Siege nightly. Removing a few alt guilds so that the ones that actually want in should not be a problem for anyone.
Using the above is why I said it should be settup so that if a guild signs up for Siege then noone enters or actually participates in Siege the next day they should not be allowed to sign up for Siege. Yo you can look at the number of guilds on your server and see the numbers there. They should be the same or close to the same as we have here in the US. I would love to see just how many guilds are on just one server from the EU side for comparison sake.

Now do yall understand the problem?? It is not about the number of slots available in Siege (although I do wish they would raise the number), it is about teh pure number of guilds that want in. If you ahve one guild that has 4 alt guilds and all get signed up that leaves 4 less slots for active guilds that want into siege.

Or would it be better for me to suggest that Frogster puts a full stop on creating any more new guilds and gets rid of those that ahve not been active for a while?? Or even dare I suggest that Frogster makes it like Guild Wars and links every character so that when one joins a guild they all are in said guild? I do not believe that will go down very well at all.

Your math seems flawed. Every guild that has ever existed is on that list. Many many many more of them are abandoned/dead. The alt guilds aren't keeping anyone out of siege unless they are really not trying to get in. The percentages you take out are completely random ( it would probably be a closer estimate to say there are 720 active people who want to siege rather than 720 active guilds)

The problem with alt guilds are people who farming badges/honor pts by leaving empty guilds in to intentionally lose points so the main guild can switch to it for easy battles later. That's pretty much it

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;530568"

Seeing as I actually looked at the number of registered Guilds on Reni, and physically counted them. My math is not flawed. I will admit that saying 720 active guilds can be a bit high, I discounted 10% for those Guilds that are not at a level that is high enough to participate.
Now seeing as I wanted it to be know just how many actual Guilds are on ONE server I was using the numbers to give yall the extent of the problem. I hear it on a daily basis where several guilds could not participate in Siege due to tehre not beign any more slots. I was not talking about people actually getting into siege (that seems to ahve been fixed), but the actual Guild sign-up. Even with 720 people trying to get into Siege, if you seperate these into seperate and equal Guilds that leaves 20 possible Guilds per server (if you divide the 720 people by 36 which is the allowed number of players per side in Siege). Now seeing as Siege sign-up is full everyday it makes you wonder where all these players are hiding.
As I stated the problem is not Siege, nor is it the ability of players to actually enter Siege. The problem is Alt Guilds that have noone entering Siege or as you stated Quaffy the badge farmers. Letting this continue is unfair to those that actually want to participate in Siege, but cannot due to those alt Guilds that do not actually participate in Siege or purposefully lose just to get badges.
People are always complaining how unfair certian things in RoM are and now that I decided to address one of them yall want to bash it and attempt to bury it. Well I will not let that happen. I ahve already submitted it to support themselves so lets see what they do.

As of 3:30pm CDT today (05/15/12), I counted *thirty* (30) Reni guilds signed up for siege. More than *2/3rds* of those have point scores of 1500 or less. I didn't bother to count the number of Osha guilds which are signed up, but there are definitely more.

There is a huge difference between the number of active guilds on a given server, and the number of guilds on a given server that actually sign up for siege, much less actively participate in siege.

So, your math is flawed.

I am not, and have not bashed your concern. What I *am* saying is that it is a tempest in a teapot. It is not an "OMG, this just absolutely RUINS the game!" kind of thing. Always was, and it still is.

If any of my alts which are still in the guild Fubar on Osha were the GL--that guild is dead, by the way--I'd bet you a cookie that I could sign Fubar up for siege *right now*. There are 300 signup slots available. Go and count the number of guilds which are actually signed up for siege today. I'll bet you another cookie that there are < 300 guilds signed up, right now.

Help me out here. I'm going to crib a quote from your starter post:

"[COLOR=black !important]Ok here is something I thought of while reading another post. We all know that it can be a pain to sign up for Siege. We all know that a lot of players only play the game for Siege.
It has come to my attention that some of the Guilds that are signing up for Siege never actually have anyone show up for it. This is wrong as it prevents Guilds that actually want to participate in Siege cannot due to there not beign an open slot."[/COLOR] [emphasis added]

Now, since there are 300 slots available, and there are fewer than 300 guilds signed up for siege on any given night...how is it that guilds are not able to sign up for siege due to there not being an open slot? I *just* counted the total number of guilds signed up for siege tonight--05/15/12. There are...wait for it...210 guilds signed up.

That means there are *90* open slots.

If what I quoted above is the basis for your complaint, then fail complaint is fail.

Oh, and gimme my cookie!

Quoted from "Malignatus;530685"

...Now, since there are 300 slots available, and there are fewer than 300 guilds signed up for siege on any given night...how is it that guilds are not able to sign up for siege due to there not being an open slot? I *just* counted the total number of guilds signed up for siege tonight--05/15/12. There are...wait for it...210 guilds signed up.

That means there are *90* open slots.

...

I just attempted to sign up my guild and it showed queue as full. Therefore there are not 90 spots available.
Not sure of the number that siege now, but by what you have listed, my guess its 210 max guilds able to sign up.

Carry on...as this is an interesting debate

Quoted from "Craigers;530689"

I just attempted to sign up my guild and it showed queue as full. Therefore there are not 90 spots available.
Not sure of the number that siege now, but by what you have listed, my guess its 210 max guilds able to sign up.

Carry on...as this is an interesting debate

It's 200, 100 max battles, there are definetly more guilds than there are siege spots, it fills up max every night.

It's not as bad as it once was, but if you don't sign up when siege registration starts, you won't get a spot, most of that is because they've been slowly decreasing the number of actual siege spots.

Just my 2¢ on the issue of guilds using alt guilds to lower their score and switch to that guild so they can siege a weaker guild.

I know there are holes in this but I have 2 suggestions to inhibit this behavior (one of these not both).

1) When you join a guild, that toon can't enter Siege for 3 days.
2) When you leave a guild you can't join another one for 3 days.

I agree with some penalty being set forth, but that would pretty much end mercs, which is the only way some people play siege. However, this point shaving crap is ridiculous, not to mention an exploit, dishonorable, and downright cheap. If you can't be big enough to lose a few but stay in your appropriate bracket, then you have no business doing siege. I remember each guild we face that does that and for the ones on our server our guild and many of our fellow guilds refuse to do any sort of business with those that shave points like that. And yes you could argue forever as to who is actually doing it, but we all know. When their guild has 10+ 70/70's all 80k hp and up and are still in the 300's range....yeah c'mon. We know who does it, they know they do it, and it needs to stop. Not only is it unfair advantage when they actually fight, but it's also no fun at all when we face them and no one shows up while they shave points to stay low ranked. Why so many people see this as acceptable is beyond me. It's cheating, plain and simple. Idc what the EULA says. This is a moral issue, and it seems morals is something few people understand anymore.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;530773"

2 A new member of a guild cannot join that guilds Siege until they have been in the guild for 24 hours. Truthfully not sure if that one is still in place or not.

Has that EVER been in place? Cause i've certainly always been able to join a guild 2 minutes before registration closes and siege that night.