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A Suggestion That Should be Done Before TP Resets

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MegaMouseSEC

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Tuesday, June 12th 2012, 9:43pm

A Suggestion That Should be Done Before TP Resets

Ok guys before you go off on this I thought it out real well and decided to post it here due to the MAJOR complaints about the TP resets.
I believe that Frogster should put a simple poll up letting the players vote on wether to have a TP reset or not. Nothing fancy just a simple Yes or NO. No discussion, no complaints, JUST THE POLL. Have the poll posted in the forums or even on the main website a week before any planned reset to give everyone time to vote.
Doing this will give Frogster some idea of wether the community that plays RoM actually wants a TP reset or not.

effervescent

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Wednesday, June 13th 2012, 7:03am

Or, instead of screwing players that actually do want resets...they could just send reset stones to everyone. Use it if you want to, don't use it if you don't want a reset.

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MegaMouseSEC

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Wednesday, June 13th 2012, 1:55pm

That could work also, but I still want to be given a chance to vote on it. Instead of beign blindsided by raises in TP costs.

effervescent

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Wednesday, June 13th 2012, 2:51pm

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;537202"

That could work also, but I still want to be given a chance to vote on it. Instead of beign blindsided by raises in TP costs.


What's the point in a vote if people are given an option? Not everyone hates TP resets. Some people like having them every now and then--reset stones are sold in the CS for a reason. And if TP costs being raised is your problem, then that's a whole different issue that has nothing to do with TP resets in the first place...since your skills would still be screwed up from lack of TP.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.

Nytefall

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Wednesday, June 13th 2012, 8:52pm

While the suggestion is appreciated, there are very valid technical reasons for this - Mainly, any change in the costs of a skill.

Example (using nonexistant skills and tp values):

Skill "SuperSmash" goes from requiring 500,000 TP at level 50 to 600,000. 500,000 TP invested in the skill means it would now be level 42.

This means that either:

1. you ignore this case, and people who already put TP in it have a permanent advantage over those who didn't, unless they use a TP reset. These players may also find themselves unable to level this skill further, or it can create problems with their character.

2. You have to retroactively de-level the skill on the people who have TP in it, and possibly break their action bars (Which are trying to use SuperSmash+50)

(Note: The above example can apply to skills that become cheaper, too)

The safest solution is to reset the TP, change the skill, and then allow players to reinvest in it if they choose. Everyone is placed on an equal footing, and nothing is broken.

Lastly, as far as I know, the TP resets are an everyone-or-no-one type of option. There's no "Skip this person" toggle. This is why TP was not reset during the Warden class update in chapter 4.

A mass-mailing of Advanced Skill Reset stones sounds like a good idea, but it carries some significant problems - It takes days, if not weeks, to compile such a list and prepare it for sending. This means that by the time you actually send it, you're operating on out-of-date information, and this invariably causes problems, like people not getting one.

(Disclaimer - I still do not have a list of which skills, if any, were changed in cost with Chapter V - It may have been simply a courtesy reset due to skill fixes and the planned implementation of new elite skills.)

MegaMouseSEC

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Saturday, June 16th 2012, 12:16am

Thanks Nytefall I do know that there was a pretty good sized list of skills that had their TP costs upped though. I play a mage and screenied all my skill sheets and even how much total TP I had before the reset. Got most of my skills back to where they were but not all of them. They may not release a list due to it beign way to long, but a bit of warning would ahve been nice.

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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 6:51pm

I don't think "breaking their action bars" is really an issue. If they're too lazy to drag the new skill down to their bar, that's really their own fault. You're catering to a minority few when so many other people suffered from massive tp gaps when everything was reset and no bonus tp was taken into account. Back when defensive formation was changed lots of people didn't notice the change but no one whined about it, we just moved the new skill down to our bar and threw the old one out and while i know that was an entire skill change and not a tp rebalancing, you see the idea. The reset stones should be the way to go, and if people are too lazy to move the new skills themselves, well not much you can do to fix stupid I guess.

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Monday, July 16th 2012, 8:13am

Quoted from "niburian;545321"

I don't think "breaking their action bars" is really an issue. If they're too lazy to drag the new skill down to their bar, that's really their own fault. You're catering to a minority few when so many other people suffered from massive tp gaps when everything was reset and no bonus tp was taken into account. Back when defensive formation was changed lots of people didn't notice the change but no one whined about it, we just moved the new skill down to our bar and threw the old one out and while i know that was an entire skill change and not a tp rebalancing, you see the idea. The reset stones should be the way to go, and if people are too lazy to move the new skills themselves, well not much you can do to fix stupid I guess.

Um I never said anything about breaking someones action bars. All I was asking for was a bit of a warning before another TP reset so we can take screenies of what we have. Doing it may avoid some of the support tickets that are put in unecessayrily.

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Monday, July 16th 2012, 9:46am

It really does not matter if tp is reset or not, we can just lvl the skill back to where it was in a couple of mins.
The real problem is can the GM Ensure us that no loses of tp occurred when tp is reset.?
Tp can reset every week for all we care, but kindly inform us few days in advance so we take take screen shots of our tp to keep as proof if tp lost occurred .
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niburian

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Monday, July 16th 2012, 7:56pm

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;545698"

Um I never said anything about breaking someones action bars. All I was asking for was a bit of a warning before another TP reset so we can take screenies of what we have. Doing it may avoid some of the support tickets that are put in unecessayrily.


Wasn't replying to you, read what the GM posted

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Monday, July 16th 2012, 7:58pm

Quoted from "CROMI80;545713"

It really does not matter if tp is reset or not, we can just lvl the skill back to where it was in a couple of mins.
The real problem is can the GM Ensure us that no loses of tp occurred when tp is reset.?
Tp can reset every week for all we care, but kindly inform us few days in advance so we take take screen shots of our tp to keep as proof if tp lost occurred .


That was the major issue with this last fiasco...they didn't tell us until the day before they took the 2 day downtime, and not everyone was able to log in and get screenshots. Yes, we should know by now not to take it on faith that major patches won't reset tp, but players shouldn't have to cover their own backs in a game that's supposed to be taking care of them.

Nytefall

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Monday, July 16th 2012, 9:50pm

Quoted from "niburian;545791"

That was the major issue with this last fiasco...they didn't tell us until the day before they took the 2 day downtime, and not everyone was able to log in and get screenshots. Yes, we should know by now not to take it on faith that major patches won't reset tp, but players shouldn't have to cover their own backs in a game that's supposed to be taking care of them.


A lot of people offer anecdotal evidence that they lose TP when we do a TP reset, saying that they, or their friend, or their ex-guild-member from six months ago lost talent points.

As an anecdotal response, I've spoken to several users on this and have not been able to verify any loss on any of them - In all cases, the user's TP was either unchanged, or increased (due to mobs they killed or quests completed post-reset).

I've run into a lot of people who didn't understand that the "Current TP" pool of Un-spent TP is already included in the "Total TP" value, but I have never seen proof of a player losing TP from a reset.

I've also seen a lot of people state that "bonus TP" is lost. This is also an "old forumgoers tale" that circulates, and simply is not true.

All TP, whether bonus TP, from TP orbs, from quests, from bonus TP events, or from kills, accumulates in the same pool - The original source does not matter, and it is impossible to differentiate based on the source.

It is far more likely that you would lose all your TP before you lost TP obtained from a single source.

As a result, I'm very confident that no TP is lost during resets, and fully believe that the reset works correctly with no loss or detriment to the player, other than the few minutes spent re-allocating your skills.

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 9:39pm

Quoted from "Nytefall;545830"

As a result, I'm very confident that no TP is lost during resets, and fully believe that the reset works correctly with no loss or detriment to the player, other than the few minutes spent re-allocating your skills.


That may or my not be true, but, when skill TP cost is changed, without any warning to us, without any list of what is changed, or without any mention of how much x skill now costs at y level, it is the same as losing TP. When before we had, via whatever means, all skills we were currently using maxed out, to come back, even if we have the exact same amount of TP as before, and not be able to level those skills is a TP loss.

We also have those of us who had a max leveled skill when the skill gets changed to an unlevelable skill. All the TP we invested in that skill is gone. We don't get it refunded, we don't get it put 'back in the pool of TP' we had. We lose it.

So, until those issues are dealt with, giving us the TP to max the skills we had maxed, giving us the TP removed when a skill is turned to one not leveled, and the like, we ARE losing TP. I, personally, find it more than a little... ignorant... to expect us to not complain about TP loss when we are not given enough TP to level the skills we need, as is. And that is WITH TP house bonuses.

But then, Froggy needs the money we have to pay for skill pots, TP furniture, and the like, so THAT will never change. Just don't tell me I haven't 'lost' TP when I can't level skills I used to be able to. Or when TP is taken from me. (how about that Warden skill change, hmm?)

Nytefall

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 9:58pm

Quoted from "Keyshana;547098"

That may or my not be true, but, when skill TP cost is changed, without any warning to us, without any list of what is changed, or without any mention of how much x skill now costs at y level, it is the same as losing TP. When before we had, via whatever means, all skills we were currently using maxed out, to come back, even if we have the exact same amount of TP as before, and not be able to level those skills is a TP loss.

We also have those of us who had a max leveled skill when the skill gets changed to an unlevelable skill. All the TP we invested in that skill is gone. We don't get it refunded, we don't get it put 'back in the pool of TP' we had. We lose it.

So, until those issues are dealt with, giving us the TP to max the skills we had maxed, giving us the TP removed when a skill is turned to one not leveled, and the like, we ARE losing TP. I, personally, find it more than a little... ignorant... to expect us to not complain about TP loss when we are not given enough TP to level the skills we need, as is. And that is WITH TP house bonuses.

But then, Froggy needs the money we have to pay for skill pots, TP furniture, and the like, so THAT will never change. Just don't tell me I haven't 'lost' TP when I can't level skills I used to be able to. Or when TP is taken from me. (how about that Warden skill change, hmm?)


Our records indicate that no TP costs were increased with the warden changes, and an Advanced Skill Reset stone (like the one you were given) will restore all TP, even that spent in the no-longer-level-able skill(s). It works on skills that have a cap implemented as well.

If you still feel you are short of TP, you may wish to invest in another reset stone. The difference between a +70 and +72 skill is a huge number of TP, and can easily be the difference you are noticing.

Alternatively, if you allocated your TP in a laggy area or were in a hurry, you may have over-allocated TP to a single skill - i.e., it says the skill is +72, but you leveled it to +75 (And can't benefit from that, as you're not level 75).

Keyshana

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 10:17pm

Quoted from "Nytefall;547106"

Our records indicate that no TP costs were increased with the warden changes, and an Advanced Skill Reset stone (like the one you were given) will restore all TP, even that spent in the no-longer-level-able skill(s). It works on skills that have a cap implemented as well.


My reference to the warden was referring to a skill turned passive and no longer levelable.

Quoted from "Gilderoi;546504"

I have found the problem. We once had abilities with training points applied to them. They are now changed to passive abilities with no TP to be applied. Even though we have a training point reset stone, the points used in previous applied abilities that have been turned to passives, is now lost and no longer factored in. I am finding this issue with my Warden Druid because I was actually using Crystal Heal and now all the TP I put into that ability are gone because it is now a taunt that does not have the ability to be upgraded. When using the stone, it only refunded applied TP, so what I once applied to Crystal Heal is completely lost to me.

Nytefall

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 10:57pm

The TP that was once spent in those skills is refunded.

The "Total TP" value did not decrease on the affected players.

The Advanced Skill Reset Stone simply de-levels all skills that it can, and sets the "Current TP" value equal to the "Total TP" value.

Therefore, even in these cases, the TP is returned and none is lost.

Leveling another skill instead, or other skills higher, may indeed create the illusion that you lost TP in this reset.

However, no loss has actually occurred.

Keyshana

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Friday, July 20th 2012, 1:52am

Thank you, Nytefall. If that is the case, then the only issue for TP is skill cost changes, which occurred during the expansion update, as an example. I have no idea why skills should be changed to cost more, but it does happen. Ah, well, life goes on.