Major Changes - Page 5 - Suggestions - Runes of Magic US / AU

Trainee

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 12:04am

Quoted from "Ziav;602104"

You need to educate yourself. Runewaker does code the game, but all the item shop stuff is done by Gameforge, Runewaker doesn't do anything with item shop pricing or even what is for sale.

Isn't that pretty much what I said? Or are you trying to split hairs here? Or did you just read something wrong?

I said, and I quote, "Gameforge could probably raise prices of what's left in the cash shop".

Are you trying to tell me that if the game no longer required ABLs, that the item didn't even exist in the game's database anymore, that Gameforge could still add them to the cash shop and sell them?

I don't think so buddy.

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Cike

Rogue

Posts: 4,171

Occupation: Being Human

82

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 12:34am

Quoted from "Lemonater;602060"

Rather than rework the system (which be what yer really are callin fer), they could maker it so that puris drop off bosses. Faster fix, easier, an exactly what yer doth be advocatin. Doubt this twill ever happen.

i think there was an idea floating around a while ago similar to this...didn't get very far...

my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

83

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 1:02am

Quoted from "Cike;602108"

i think there was an idea floating around a while ago similar to this...didn't get very far...

Free puries would allow everyone to clean tier I suppose. It might even get old player's attention. It would reduce the cost of gearing of course. For such a simple idea it does do alot.

However, to me it makes more sense to have just one item that's required to gear up from Gameforge's point of view. They could easily see how much they're selling and adjust the price of one main item. Plus rune sales of course.

At the same time, people can actually get a good idea what gearing up will cost them. They wouldn't have to guess how many plussers they'll need. They wouldn't have to figure out what gear they should tier up and how many puries they'll need in total.

For example, they could see that they need 6x15 puries, 4x15 runes, some transport runes, a few pots and some hammers, angel sighs, etc. Maybe each puri is 50 dias now, and they decide they want all lvl IX runes so 60 dias each plus 50 charges. So now they know quickly that 50x90 + 60x60 = 4500 + 3600 = 8100 dias they need. They wait for double diamond sale and bam $99 package gets them everything they need.

Of course, now that they turned you into a rom crack head, they can make a new mount or new amazing wings that everyone just has to have. That's how they should be making $$$ off existing players, not forcing them to pay out their butts to regear every chapter. IMO of course.

One of the main problems however, is if someone buys everything they need for $99 or even $199, then it's too easy to make gold to buy other player's diamonds to buy more hammers and angel sighs when they run out, because that's all they need to buy now. So I can understand GF/RW not wanting to give a permanent membership to the game for $99 or even $199.

However, those diamonds the player is buying, is getting someone else to buy diamonds. It's getting players with little time but more disposable income to what? BUY MORE DIAMONDS!!!

It can come to a point where all the demand for gold is gone and all the diasmonds in the auction house are bought up. If that happens, then the players with gold have no choice but to buy diamonds if they want more hammers, angel sighs, etc etc... But until that happens, what's the problem with people getting others to buy diamonds instead of buying them when they've already spent $99 or more on the game?

From my point of view, it's like they don't understand this concept. To me it seems like they're trying to control or trying to force everyone to buy more diamonds regardless of how much you bought before. To me it seems they're trying to do this by limiting access to ABLs and cleaners so people are forced to make new gear without the income from selling their old gear. Which means buying more diasmonds.

It might not even be what Runewaker had in mind at all. They might not of expected Frogster and then GF to limit access to absolutely necessary items such as ABLs. Then again they probably realized it early on and did nothing about it.

I could be way off. Again it's just how I feel. Maybe they are all angels with the best of intentions. rofl... But have they even given us any bloody reason that ABLs shouldn't be permanently available. One single logical reason?

Hope I don't get mod spanking for expressing my personal feelings. I'm such a bad boy.

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timthum

Master

Posts: 1,825

Location: Canada

84

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 3:33am

you seem to have missed my point ...............for your changes to come into the game it would require programmers.........from gameforge or runewaker.
and we all know just how fast both of these companies operate.and bottom line for gameforge is profits,this is why they "produce" the game.no company will operate with out profits.your ideas are good but they will cost more money to the company(programming the changes).we need to be objective here.
to have any changes the producing company has to believe that there will be more profits.this means trying to get more people to buy dias with thier hard earned cash.
the easiest way to do this would be to make it more bang for your buck.when alot of the packages in the shop are 500 dias or close to it.............20 dollars for 1 package.this is not good business.5 dollars for 500 dias would be a better solution.
this game was also originally to be a subscription based game.the PRODUCING COMPANY decided to go with a ftp model.
i do like some of your suggestions but i also know most of them will never happen.

Zymologist wl/ch/m/p
Matronmalice p/s/m
Ceviche wl/ch

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

85

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 4:01am

Quoted from "timthum;602111"

you seem to have missed my point ...............for your changes to come into the game it would require programmers.........from gameforge or runewaker.
and we all know just how fast both of these companies operate.and bottom line for gameforge is profits,this is why they "produce" the game.no company will operate with out profits.your ideas are good but they will cost more money to the company(programming the changes).we need to be objective here.
to have any changes the producing company has to believe that there will be more profits.this means trying to get more people to buy dias with thier hard earned cash.
the easiest way to do this would be to make it more bang for your buck.when alot of the packages in the shop are 500 dias or close to it.............20 dollars for 1 package.this is not good business.5 dollars for 500 dias would be a better solution.
this game was also originally to be a subscription based game.the PRODUCING COMPANY decided to go with a ftp model.
i do like some of your suggestions but i also know most of them will never happen.

Ever hear the saying never say never? Granted it's unlikely, but to be so smug to say you know something for sure. Why be such a pessimist? Why not just say you think it's unlikely?

Why not just admit that you have no way of truely knowing what profits they would make or lose?

Or why not just say you think they would lose money but that it's just your opinion?

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timthum

Master

Posts: 1,825

Location: Canada

86

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 4:24am

i am sure your changes will come into effect when they un-nerf p/s

Zymologist wl/ch/m/p
Matronmalice p/s/m
Ceviche wl/ch

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Whippingboy

Intermediate

Posts: 194

87

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 9:16am

Quoted from "kokall;602112"

Ever hear the saying "never say never?" <snip>

Except, at this point, not even James Bond can rescue us.

And don't even think about have Chuck Norris take over for James Bond, as he would just exterminate everyone in the Runewaker building, probably the last few with explosives.

[references to old movies, well, old to most of the RoM player base]

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

88

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 2:16pm

All we need is Mr. John Tang, I think he's the one with real power.

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effervescent

Professional

Posts: 969

89

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 5:01pm

Quoted from "kokall;602109"

Of course, now that they turned you into a rom crack head, they can make a new mount or new amazing wings that everyone just has to have. That's how they should be making $$$ off existing players, not forcing them to pay out their butts to regear every chapter. IMO of course.

From my point of view, it's like they don't understand this concept. To me it seems like they're trying to control or trying to force everyone to buy more diamonds regardless of how much you bought before. To me it seems they're trying to do this by limiting access to ABLs and cleaners so people are forced to make new gear without the income from selling their old gear. Which means buying more diasmonds.

You don't seem to understand the Gameforge and Runewaker only care about profits, not what is preferable to the playerbase. To not require people to "pay out their butts" to regear constantly would lose them a lot of money. There's only so many mounts and costumes you can buy before you don't want to spend money on them anymore...and unless they were obscenely overpriced, they wouldn't come close to matching what people spend on gear currently.

Bottom line, Runewaker isn't going to spend a lot of money to re-code their game just to make less money than they do now...and Gameforge certainly wouldn't like that either.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.

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Ziav

Professional

Posts: 755

90

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 5:34pm

I don't know why you all keep debating with the OP, he is clearly set on the idea that the game companies need to make it better for the players and not themselves. Until he starts up a gaming company, realizes his idea will never work in the real world of business, he will never understand. Never.

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

91

Saturday, May 25th 2013, 9:00pm

What you both don't understand is that without customers a business doesn't make any money.

A business can't just set any prices they want and expect to get customers.

The market determines what a business can charge, not the business.

One of you even left the game.

How much money are they making off you now?

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timthum

Master

Posts: 1,825

Location: Canada

92

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 12:49am

i do understand and i think i understand better than you do,i have run a successful business for 15 years (never once have i been in the red).
remember i do like your ideas but i am also realistic in how to get more players and still making Gameforge a profit.
15 YEARS EXPERIENCE AT RUNNING MY OWN BUSINESS!
and now i will wash my hands of this absurd argument.i will reserve my ideas to those that understand a business model and can relate to making profits.

Zymologist wl/ch/m/p
Matronmalice p/s/m
Ceviche wl/ch

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

93

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 11:06am

Quoted from "timthum;602174"

i do understand and i think i understand better than you do,i have run a successful business for 15 years (never once have i been in the red).
remember i do like your ideas but i am also realistic in how to get more players and still making Gameforge a profit.
15 YEARS EXPERIENCE AT RUNNING MY OWN BUSINESS!
and now i will wash my hands of this absurd argument.i will reserve my ideas to those that understand a business model and can relate to making profits.

Your experience doesn't make you right. Just like guessing what risks GF/RW would take doesn't mean you know what they'll do.

I have more business experience then you do but that doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong.

Why not try thinking of some real arguements.

For example...

What happens to existing puries? If someone has 400 puries in their CS bag, and prices are raised, they're getting a huge boost to their value. That's a decent arguement!!!

Similar arguement, what happens to ABLs & regular bind lifters? Do players get a refund?

I think those are good arguements but I'm sure solutions can be found to solve those problems.

What I would like to see is arguements relating to quests and mana stones. Are there any issues with the story line that involve mana stones.

Then at least I could say, ah ok, this will never work.

But to say you know what it's going to cost them and if it'd be worth the risk, that's total BS. Heck you could run a similar company that produces MMO's and I still wouldn't take your educated guess to mean squat. Without actual experience with their code, you just wouldn't have enough information to make an estimate of the time and costs involved to make the suggested changes.

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Ravesden

Master

Posts: 1,810

Location: Reni

94

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 11:26am

Quoted from "kokall;601384"

I've been a marketing consultant for over 20 long years. Not that I have any experience with online MMOs, I'm not gona BS and say I do. But there's some basic knowledge all business owners need to know. The customer is always right. A happy customer is a repeat customer. Don't ever promise something you can't or don't deliver. Just to name a few of them.

I should be charging them for this advice. I accept payment in diamonds.

Quoted from "kokall;602228"

Your experience doesn't make you right. Just like guessing what risks GF/RW would take doesn't mean you know what they'll do.

laf.

Ravesden, D/S/Wd 80/75/62
Retired. Click siggy for old RoM vids, among other things.

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

95

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 11:49am

HA! There's a big difference! I know I could easily be wrong regardless of my experience. I even pointed out how my experience didn't include MMOs.

This dude thinks his experience gives him magical powers to predict costs of any business and how much people, that he doesn't even know, are willing to risk.

Have I ever said that I know it won't cost much to make these changes?

Have I ever said that these changes present no risk to GF/RW?

Why not make some real arguements instead of failing at making me out to be the bad guy?

Experience might teach you things but it doesn't make you psychic or infallible.

Thanks for bump tho. laf.

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

96

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 12:54pm

Oh another good arguement, what happens to tier stones people have already made. It might really tick people off if they lost 3 tier 10s or 3 tier 11s mana stones!!!

Maybe a seperate tiering stone might be good. Convert all mana stones into stat runes and seperate tier stones. Maybe let players remove tiering from gear too. Could still use charges to build tier stones.

So if you had a tier 6 stone with 3 stats, you'd get 3 runes and a tier 6 tiering stone. If you had a dirty tieir 11 mana stone, you'd get 6 crap stat runes but a tier 11 tiering stone. If you had a clean tier 8 chest, you could remove the 6 stats but keep the tier level. Or you could remove the tier level and get 3 tier 8 stones, and use it on something else, or combine them into t9 if you have 2 others to use with it and upgrade your gear or weapon.

So once you invest in tiering stones you don't have to keep making them. You can extract tier stones from your weapon or gear and use it on other gear.

Still makes it's simpler to understand than using mana stones that both stat and tier gear. Adds income from charges but not everytime someone upgrades a friggen item.

But then the problem with that is people with old t11 weapons become rich. However, someone did invest into that old weapon so whoever bought it just made a wise investment. Not sure that would fly though. lol

Anyways, just another suggestion.

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Ziav

Professional

Posts: 755

97

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 5:10pm

For someone who claims to be a marketing consultant for 20 years, you sure are clueless how business works. As many people have tried to point out to you, no business is going to lose money to attract new customers, if THEY don't see it as profitable. Your original post has them losing money over the long term while maybe gaining a handful of new customers. THAT IS NOT PROFITABLE. You have continually suggested the company make a move to make it easier for players to gear up and spend less money, biting into profits. I don't care what field the company is in, I don't care what product they produce, every company cares about profit over customers. The old cliche's that are out there haven't been relevant for years. Sure they sound good, but try going into a store and telling them "I'm the customer, I'm right". You'll get laughed out of the store.

Companies view customers as a means to an end now. Companies know that if they keep prices in the same range as another company, people will still buy, even when they know the item is overpriced.

Now, about RoM. The item shop is not the only thing driving people away from this game. Just look through the forums and it'll become obvious. Until THAT is fixed, it won't matter how cheap anything in the item shop is, there just won't be players to buy any of it. If you think lowering prices will magically fix this game, then you are more clueless than anyone in this thread even dared dream. Right now the item shop is only one on a very long list of problems that keep potential new players away.

With that, I'm washing my hands of this very pointless and possibly troll thread forever.

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timthum

Master

Posts: 1,825

Location: Canada

98

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 5:28pm

Quoted from "Ziav;602256"

For someone who claims to be a marketing consultant for 20 years, you sure are clueless how business works. As many people have tried to point out to you, no business is going to lose money to attract new customers, if THEY don't see it as profitable. Your original post has them losing money over the long term while maybe gaining a handful of new customers. THAT IS NOT PROFITABLE. You have continually suggested the company make a move to make it easier for players to gear up and spend less money, biting into profits. I don't care what field the company is in, I don't care what product they produce, every company cares about profit over customers. The old cliche's that are out there haven't been relevant for years. Sure they sound good, but try going into a store and telling them "I'm the customer, I'm right". You'll get laughed out of the store.

Companies view customers as a means to an end now. Companies know that if they keep prices in the same range as another company, people will still buy, even when they know the item is overpriced.

Now, about RoM. The item shop is not the only thing driving people away from this game. Just look through the forums and it'll become obvious. Until THAT is fixed, it won't matter how cheap anything in the item shop is, there just won't be players to buy any of it. If you think lowering prices will magically fix this game, then you are more clueless than anyone in this thread even dared dream. Right now the item shop is only one on a very long list of problems that keep potential new players away.

With that, I'm washing my hands of this very pointless and possibly troll thread forever.

+1

Zymologist wl/ch/m/p
Matronmalice p/s/m
Ceviche wl/ch

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effervescent

Professional

Posts: 969

99

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 6:02pm

I really don't think anyone here is under the delusion that the CS is fine, OP...but it still doesn't change the fact that making the changes you suggest would lose Gameforge and Runewaker a lot of money. Sure, they'd gain more people buying diamonds...but how much? You're not going to spend hundreds upon hundreds every 3-6 months on costumes or mounts, and only having to buy puris would cut down a lot on the cost of gearing - which, yes, is beneficial for players, but it's also detrimental for a publisher that's already failing to keep its playerbase's interest.

100 people buying a crapload of charges, ABLs, normal BLs, drillers, plussers, puris, etc, is going to add up to much, much more than 200 people buying only puris, costumes, and mounts - the latter two of which are permanent and one-time things.

Plus, without tiering, that's already a lot of puris cut out of the equation. People who clean t8 things are pretty common, and there are even some who will clean t10. Do you realize how many puris/diamonds that takes, from just one person?

No, I'm not making excuses for Gameforge, and to be honest, the p2w aspect is one of the main reasons a lot of people have left - though, as Ziav said, certainly not the only reason. There are a lot of things wrong with RoM, and simply making the CS less p2w will not cure everything.

That said...a business is a business. For better or for worse, RoM was designed around such a p2w gearing system. Runewaker made it that way. They're not going to suddenly go "Just kidding!" and make the game less p2w and less expensive to play. They're not a charity. They're a business...and making money is all they're after.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.

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kokall

Trainee

Posts: 158

100

Sunday, May 26th 2013, 9:13pm

Quoted from "Ziav;602256"

no business is going to lose money to attract new customers

A business would never do that! That'd be crazy!

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