Runes of Magic US / AU

Why not change it to 10% offhand attack speed increase. No one (well no one should...) uses the "rogue" set. Off-hand damage is pointless enough. May as well make them swing faster.

If you are wondering, the 240 crit from the "scout" set benefits more than the off-hand weapon damage. Unless something is done to off-hand damage, all skills that increase it are kinda lame.

Quoted from "ArkanaROM"

My understanding of these sets that have "Off-Hand Damage Rate" is that it does increase the speed not flat damage. Having said that with current Boss pcrit resist that from my small amount of initial testing seem's like it's being pushed down the pcrit curve (rather than being a simple linear reduction) means that imo pcrit is more important than an extra few off-hand white hits.

There's a possible case to be made for say r/m to increase how many procs of enchanted throw you can get but even that represents a small % of my overall output damage as a r/m.

But yes, if it is the case that it's simply increasing %damage per hit the yes it would be more sensible to have it as a speed modifier.

WTB Tooltip clarity...

I'm almost 100% positive that it is damage. If you equip a set and then look at off-hand damage, you will probably see the weapon damage increase. Though the increase would be small, I think it would be a decent jump from %off-hand damage.

At least it would make off-hand weapons more useful. (Yeah I'm a rogue/mage and want the extra enchanted throw procs lol)

Quoted from "Rossbot"

Agreed.

Here are some other suggestions for bonuses that aren't just more of the same but good for Rogues:

• Successful offhand weapon hits increase attack speed by 1% and offhand weapon damage is increased by 3%. This effect can stack up to 5 times and lasts 7 seconds.
  
  Change "Sneak Shot" to do this. Make it a 15s buff, or make it proc upon using. I'd prefer it to be a buff since energy rotations are already set in stone.
  
  
• Main hand weapon hits have a 10% chance to trigger an offhand weapon attack. (This attack will not trigger any on-hit effects from passive or buff skills.)
  
  I'd like to see this turned into "Night Attack". I can see that being a 10 minute buff.
  
  
• Offhand weapon hits ignore 10% of the target's resistances, dodge, and parry rate.
  
• Offhand weapon hits have their damage increased by 10% Main Hand Weapon DPS.
  

There are many other ways to give rogues increases to make their offhand weapons to be more than just stat-sticks.

My suggestions in bold. Changing the most unused rogue item-set skills.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

your missing the point.

The point isn't so much that offhand damage adds major damage or anything, but rather the 240 points of crit at a certain level of crit adds nothing. Better to have the little amount of damage then absolutely nothing (240 crit).

Im all for adding more offhand relivance aka more damage or triggering better buffs using sneak attack etc. I say bring on the better offhand suggestions for rogue sets. Offhand SHOULD be a major part of rogues in some way or form.

Either way if I was to grab full set sandos vs the scout one I would rather have sandos. I know that's not a popular statement to most but so be it.

Dex is seriously underated and pa is seriously overrated. Not to say that its not important so please don't start spewing about PA I am aware of its value but honestly 10k pa more buffed makes very little difference especially when ya taling about 200k vs 210k pa. But 3k more dex buffed can be the difference between living and having your face planted on the ground.

That being said I choose not to go full betho set either set. Im full POM 2 piece Sandos.

I understand where you stand with the 10% damage > 240 crit. Though crit wins this game.

Moving on.

"Dex is seriously underated and pa is seriously overrated". Dex is very much so a pvp attribute. I can say that it is infact something you shouldn't use as a rogue, unless it has the secondary stat as "Physical Attack."

Still... crit wins. Crit damage is cray OP in this game...



Also take note on how low the damage from "Attack" was.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

your still missing the point. (You're missing the facts. I base my statements on evidence and numbers.)

your wounds critting at 88% how much more ya think 240 point of crits gonna add? answer is nothing I assume your around 6k-6.5k crit. (If unknown choice procs, I hit 9,500 crit)

yes crit wins to point then it becomes a case of diminishing returns. (You can't have too much crit IMO)

as for dex its more than just a pvp attribute but if you wanna think that that's fine everyone can have there opinion. (This isn't an opinion, you gain little extra damage from dexterity modifiers.)

Yes I know uber rogues that stat with str only (are you from the aussie servers? I heard they did that...), but replace all those detonation/abilities with vengeance/triumph and youll have MORE pa as well as the dodge/accuracy/damage the dodge being the most important of the 3.

1) From 78% crit, to 80% crit (thats over 500 crit, for just TWO PERCENT) I see my total DPS go up by AT LEAST 10%. That is crits, not offhand damage. So if you are not stacking crit, you WILL see a difference with 240 crit.

2) If you are stacking dexterity for the sole purpose of having dex (because of damage modifiers), i hate to say it, but they are poorly implemented. They do little little little damage.

You have 30k dex in a burn. Take a .3x dex multiplier. 30,000 * .3 = 9,000 extra damage.

I for one will be statting like one of my guildies. 5x dex/physical attack, and 1x stam/physical attack. I don't like to see strength on my gear. If you have the money / patience, I suggest you DO NOT stat with stam/dex or dex/ anything without patk. I see TONS of rogues doing this because they see the dexterity modifier. It is not worth statting so that you get extra damage from a dexterity modifier.

Quoted from "TWMXC"

So really when you suggest using 10% more offhand damage you're really only increasing your white damage by some insignificant amount and I would much rather have the shot at an extra crit on a boss fight, even if it's only one more simply due to the way skill damage uses mainhand %.

A crit on any skill doing xxx,xxx more damage vs an added 3k-5k more white hit damage I know what I'm going with.

This is why I will use a set with crit in it. You may be hitting harder with EVERY offhand white hit... but what? 3k harder? You know... if you crit ONE more time with a skill... you will deal at least DOUBLE the damage.

Let's take this into theory;

If you were to hit the boss 100 times in a boss fight on your burn, including skills... attacks... and got NO crits... and let's take say... you deal 10k extra off-hand damage per hit with the 10% boost. Great. No crits and you dealt 1,000,000 extra damage thanks to the set.

If you were to hit the boss 100 times in a boss fight on your burn, including skills... attacks... and got 10 crits... you would be dealing possibly over 5,000,000 damage from crits.

Any critical attack will beat that 10% base damage. Period. Critical attacks affect everything. Skills, offhand crits, mainhand attack crits. Off-hand damage turns your twig, into a twig with an extra layer of bark.

Quoted from "TWMXC"

If one person wears crit set other wears offhand set and they both have the same gear (and same stats) in all other slots the difference is minimal.

200 crit isn't a game changer, but when trying to min/max I'd rather have more crit as explained in my post above.

Right on the money.