Runes of Magic US / AU

1) buff scouts detection range and skill range
2) bring a scout into siege
3) why is there a #3? the problem is fixed....


seriously, the problem isn't the skill itself, the problem is the counter is ineffective...


so this thread should just be relabeled "Buff scouts!!!"

Quoted from "timthum"

they end up dead due to throw and combo throw.

please refer to this post...

The only way to make this an effective tool on a PVE server is for them to buff a scouts detection to a distance greater than throw or combo throw and include invis pots and evasion and vanish and escape in the detectable skills. Running scout side, I am dead before the detect picks up a rogue in hide due to the range of their throws. I don't have a problem going up against anyone or any class in sw, as long as one has at least a chance. Not enough ppl actually play their scout side enough anymore to make it a viable option as is. So far any skill that any class has that is able to take down a rogue with any ease at all, has been nerfed to the point of not even being useable. Example, scout/warden charged chop. That received a cast time because it was considered op against rogues. So lets make it more of an even playing field, and put a 1 second cast time on hide. Oh wait, I can hear it now, but then it could be interrupted. I say welcome to the rest of the class combos in RoM.

agreed Cike, seems like weve talked about this allready in a different post. But i agree Timthum. Something needs to be done, but wont be done.

Quoted from "gigilomann"

agreed Cike, seems like weve talked about this allready in a different post.

we did...i can't seem to find that thread...it had a bunch of great points about how to best balance rogue and scout pvp without even touching pve functionality...

edit: nvm, it's right here...

Yes i think everyone how isn't a rogue in sw will agree and say they are waaaaaaaay OP and a 5 second cooldown on hide would make that better its still useful and scouts could use buff's they are almost useless as far as i can see pve or pvp i don't even think there's someone with a scout main on reni as far as I know.

The idea that they would ever buff any Scout skill is just absurd. The worship for Rogues and the hatred for Scouts that has existed for the last few years will prevent it. It is far more likely the Scouts will get another nerf and the Rogues damage and range will increase and they will not have to come out of hide ever,

no aspho, don't nerf hide...
/facepalm
if scouts were fixed, nobody would have any problems with rogues that couldn't be fixed with bringing a scout along...

I've changed my mind about hide. Imo, hide is not the problem. Rogues with 5 second CD on hide will still be insane in PvP.

I'll focus on PvE geared rogue vs PvE geared other classes first, than PvP damage reduction second.

I think the main problem is the insane burst damage output of Rogue skills. Rogues have stronger swift burst damage than almost any class. PvE geared rogues can hit other PvE geared classes for as much as 250k Lowblow, sometimes even higher. R/M combo throw in 2 or so seconds dishes out 120k x 4 = 480k damage against PvE players.

I have seen no other class in siege with such burst damage capabilities. The highest damage I've taken from any other class from an instant cast is around 120k, whether melee or ranged (exception: 290k from W/M when they were first OP, but since the nerf I've only been hit for 120k or so). The highest lowblow? 350k.

Yes, I do have 40k more Mdef compared to Pdef. Yet, the highest magical instant @ 105k I've taken is still a far cry from the average lowblow I take, and would not get anywhere near even if I had the same Mdef.

For PvP reduction:

I've seen a lot of arguments that "nerf PvP damage by 80% and all of the problems with rogues will be solved!" or "Get everyone to use PvE gear!". I've ran scenarios over and over again, and simply do not see that happening.

Prior to Damage reduction, assuming max damage PvE gear output and nearly max for rogues:

Rogue hits you for 200k Lowblow, you hit rogue for 100k.
Whoever gets the first hit wins.

With 80% damage reduction (situation is pretty much identical with 50% from PvE gear).

Rogue hits you for 40k LB, you hit rogue for 20k.
Here, after the damage nerf, the difference in damage affects the outcome even more. Now, the excessive damage from rogue does come in play, and Rogue wins, doing twice your damage per hit.

or R/M uses combo throw, hitting you for 20k x 4 = 80k. You hit rogue for 20k.
Meh, this is actually worse...

I know one of the primary concerns is PvE as well, and IF RW decides to balance rogues a bit , they'll need to balance PvE and PvP very carefully. I think they've done a fine job with the W/M nerf - I still see W/M doing very respectable amounts of DPS against other equally geared classes, and hope that RW does not accidentally ruin yet another class. Rogues being Scouts V 2.0 will help nobody.

Quoted from "timthum"

The rogue skill hide is a pvp skill and needs a cooldown.

Whatever cooldown is suggested, there will always be some saying it's too short (non-rogues) or too long (rogues).

It doesn't need a cooldown (I play a Warrior and a Mage - not a Rogue). It needs a 2-3 second casting time!

no, just no

no nerf is needed tbh....

I agree with Cike, There is no need to nerf rogues in any way. I used to play one and I have seen some amazing players that I didn't stand a chance against. You guys make it sound like rogues just run around siege invincible, killing everyone, and never die. If that is the case your guild is sieging around 1k or below. I play warlock every siege now and I get my ass handed too me by rogues now and then. I go grab some invis tower and a eyes and set up shop wherever I am needed. I also have some built in aoes that help but in the end I rely on our tanks and wardens to really deal with the rogues. Our wardens laugh at rogues that walk up and hit them or shoot them with their 5 hit immune what is a rogue going to do? If you are fighting a guild full of rogues and you have good wardens then u will win siege. Put some magic players and a healer with that warden and u have a rogue destroying army. Place them eyes people, As a former rogue they are a pain in the ass. Sure you get escape but that only is a one trick pony with a cooldown.

I have yet to be in a siege where a single OP rogue decides the match. I've been in plenty where a single OP warden does. Yet strangely enough I am not starting stupid "nerf wardens" threads.

I will say that I have played other games w/ rogue-types that have a 1-3 second casts on invisibility ( hide ) & never had a problem there. The interesting thing in one of the games was that a rogue could not go invisible if ANY ENEMY could see them ( players or mobs ). So I don't think a 1 second cast on hide would hurt too many rogues 'cause if they really need to get away quickly, there's Vanish.

OTOH, if anyone believes this will lower rogue kills in siege? not gonna happen. If you are currently killable by a rogue in hide, you're still gonna be killable by a rogue in hide w/ ANY cast time/cooldown. Just saying. :)

Quoted from "Cike"

1) buff scouts detection range and skill range
2) bring a scout into siege
3) why is there a #3? the problem is fixed....


seriously, the problem isn't the skill itself, the problem is the counter is ineffective...


so this thread should just be relabeled "Buff scouts!!!"

Agreed, even though I hate rogues and the skill hide. But the problem is not necessarily the rogue, it's the counter measures to counter the hide.

1) Increase the detection range
2) Buff scouts to do a bit more damage so they don't die everywhere in PVP and can actually do damage.
2.5) If you are a scout, pray that a rogue walks right on top of you because that's the only way you'd be able to see them.
3) Lay Eyes
4) Lay more eyes

I do agree that Hide should get a casting time or a cooldown. I want rogues not to be able to disappear standing next to other players, that is just stupid to be able to do that. Scouts should have detection increased to match the rogues ranged attacks.

Stop thinking only Rogues of Magic, it is not.

Another point i hate when you face fail rogues in siege and their excuses :

LAG
LAG Swicthing losers
Supposedly bad internet
Porting in increments of 200 feet

The other night we faced a guild that i had the person targeted, i had no debuff whatsoever, pressed all my attack buttons, like 12 of them, none went off. I was moving forward and following my opponent and BOOM got hit 6 times, never saw a single shot from him, you are dead WTF?? well pretty easy LAG Switching, if we have to do the same thing as them to match their tactics it would just be so wrong. Too many that are losers in their real life, have to cheat in a game to feel like a winner, well bad news, you are now a cheating loser. That player said bad internet LOL.

I have faced many rogues over the 4 years i have been here, i have met quite a few that were awesome to fight and made it fun. I have enough skills to pop them out of hide or find them and kill them. But my skills have long cooldowns to ue again.

But you always have those certain individuals, like that other person in a different thread on the forums, who wants to pay people in diamonds to be 82/82 with all endgame gear, because he has money, loll, and that is the society we live in.

BTW is there any other place in game that hide is useful at all?? in instances?, farming? PVE?? etc? NO it is not. Also eye of true knowledge shouldn't have a cast time at all, instantly pops out someone out of hide, no if or buts. Get near it and boom you are out of hide, stunned.

Runewaker nerfed scouts, nerfed Priest/scouts, nerfed charged chop, any class that can kill rogues gets nerfed, plain and simple. As i always said, they get the best weapons always, the best gear and that always drops a lot more in instances than any other class gear, they get the best luck always, no matter if i run 2 Loot V, luck potion etc and they just have their little treasure hunter skill on and get more luck, lol.

Wanna get more players have fun, balance rogues to other classes or stop nerfing any class or combo that can kill rogues, simple.
There is other classes in game than rogues, unless Runewaker didn't notice, might want to send them the info in tawainese since english doesn't seem to be going through them.

Have rogues ever even had a nerf? even mages have had a nerf at least i think...