Runes of Magic US / AU

I agree. Never understood why a Rogue could hit me as a X/Scout more accurately with throwing daggers than I could firing a bow/xbow.

first off, i agree that throw/ct could use some kind of a nerf to range or damage or whatever.

However, where are you getting the 150 foot range from? If you mean the distance unit that is attached to the skill; that does not translate into feet. If that where the case then we would be hitting each other with daggers and swords from 50 feet away, which would make even less real world sense.

I'm not trying to start a disagreement, just saying that you might want to use a different argument.

Zid:

Throw and Combo Throw have a range of 150. There is no mention of "feet", "yards", "meters", or any other discernible measurement. It is the same way with tooltip ranges for *any* skill, ranged or not. And please note that the ranges for T/CT are shorter than those for Eyes of True Knowledge, Faces of Treachery, Electric Towers, Flame Towers, and most ranged physical and magic skills.

And be careful what you ask for. *Really* careful. Siege is but one hour per day. PvE and instances are 24 hours per day. And it's entirely possible that one of your classes could suffer an RW mischief. Again.

Jguy:

The "to hit" chances for Throw and Combo Throw are based on PAcc and modified somewhat by PDef, the same as any melee or ranged physical attack. In our recent siege against your guild, and as an R/M, I noted that out of four *possible* hits with CT, I rarely achieved all four of them on you.

AlexanderD:

I could live with a small downward modification to Throw and Combo Throw. There is no need to change their ranges.

another thread about this? lol, the last one wasn't even closed...

since I'm here:
1) buff scouts
2) determine if rogue needs to be adjusted after scout fix
3) adjust rogues if necessary

Even as a rogue myself, I can't really disagree. Combo throw is very OP skill, and even as R/S I am not using xbow anymore. To me, neither the damage of arrows nor benefit of extra slot of stats justify foregoing combo throw. If rogue is to be nerfed (and that is always a contentious case to make), I couldn't say that combo throw reduction is unreasonable.

Be Very Afraidddddddddddddddddd.................

Rogue nerf gets asked for.. and u never know what RW gives. It like a mystery box of good or bad.

My views are all on the other thread where this topic was already beat to death.

Realistic? lol Have you not noticed the amazing heat-seeking-missile-like abilities of some of these skills lol

One siege I ran circles around a tree trying to escape a fireball, it got me around the second pass lol

I do agree that we need more balance in game.

Quoted from "zidlef"

Don't forget that rogues ARE AND ALWAYS will be a MELEE DPS!!! get it?? MELEE DPS!! not ranged

So it's conceptual problem of whether throwing a hidden weapon fits the concept of rogue? Well we always had it, right? Scouts had bows, rogues had projectiles. It has always been a part of the concept of this class, I guess, it just was sooooo weak that no one used it.

On German forum R/M guide is called: "Ninja, the new R/M". If you think of a ninja throwing shuriken - it does not sound weird at all. But I quite dislike the arguments based on what things "should be like". It's just your opinion, how you look at this, I don't care that much - sorry.

If you think rogues are OP - fine, we can talk about this, we can actually exchange some arguments (and I would probably agree with Cike - current situation can actually result in small changes to scouts which would make them really useful and would expand pvp strategies - nerfing rogues might make things just flat; but on the other hand - maybe a small nerf to throw is due). But it's a different subject, right?

Back OT: If it's about concepts - it will end up with me saying I look at things different than you do...

Quoted from "Uure"

Quoted from "zidlef"

Don't forget that rogues ARE AND ALWAYS will be a MELEE DPS!!! get it?? MELEE DPS!! not ranged

So it's conceptual problem of whether throwing a hidden weapon fits the concept of rogue? Well we always had it, right? Scouts had bows, rogues had projectiles. It has always been a part of the concept of this class, I guess, it just was sooooo weak that no one used it.

..... But I quite dislike the arguments based on what things "should be like". It's just your opinion, how you look at this, I don't care that much - sorry.

Funny how rogues were the ones complaining how a priest should ONLY be a healer class, but none of them want to be nerfed to ONLY being melee range

I say let them have a 75 or even a 100 range, but scouts DO need to be fixed right along with this: better range, more damage, and fix detection.

Throw/combo as it stands now is as powerful than almost any scout skill. Somehow the concept that a rock or knife can be thrown at great ranges far more accurately and doing far more damage than an arrow or bolt just should have never happened but ii did and now to a great extent it had unbalanced the game.
It creates a character that has one of the best melee dps (notice I didn't say the best as there is always someone who would argue about it} one of the best ranged dps {see previous} combined with the best evasion and dodge skills. In addition better armor than the caster classes and the same armor as the scouts.
The Rogue is as close to being a god mode character as is possible in this game. An appropriate nerf would be to limit it to a range of 50 with a 50% chance of the target dodging: projectiles move far slower than bolts or arrows.. That would restore the balance to the game better than trying to buff every other class to compensate for this one skill.
That would still leave the Rogue as one of the most powerful melee dps classes with the highest chance of critical hits, the best dodge and evasion in the game and a slightly less overpowered ranged skill.

No damage nerf. That's my opinion. A range nerf all the way, but not a damage nerf. The reason I say this is because the throw/combothrow damage buff made some classes like R/P more viable as a filler. That shouldn't be taken away. What should be taken away is the range. It should be max 75-100. Little more than melee skills but not a ranged class.

Do keep in mind that this discussion *only* considers Siege or PvP. It does *not* take into account the relative usefulness of Throw/Combo Throw in PvE or dungeon/instance runs. So, Caveat Nerftor!

Quoted from "vfwiffo"

Even as a rogue myself, I can't really disagree. Combo throw is very OP skill, and even as R/S I am not using xbow anymore. To me, neither the damage of arrows nor benefit of extra slot of stats justify foregoing combo throw. If rogue is to be nerfed (and that is always a contentious case to make), I couldn't say that combo throw reduction is unreasonable.

It's amazing how often I'm Shot-spammed to death by an R/S after farming tower guards. I almost always open with Enlivened Blade, kill the two charging Guards, then target the Guard Leader and CT him as he comes for me. I almost always have to use Escape (Atrocity ISS) once the Guard Leader does his '"shadow prison" effect so I can finish the job. Since his AoE also causes damage and bleeds, I can' go back into Hide until the bleeds wear off. Hence, a defending R/S (or any X/S or S/X) can Shot-spam me while I'm trying to run away.

I say nerf Shot. Make it cost 25 focus and reduce its range to 100, so I can pop Godspeed, Spellweaver, or Mad Rush, turn 180 degrees, then kill the R/S with CT whilst running backwards!

Just kidding. There's no such thing as a "good" nerf. it's that "Caveat Nerftor" thing again...

Quoted from "ghostwolf82"

Funny how rogues were the ones complaining how a priest should ONLY be a healer class, but none of them want to be nerfed to ONLY being melee range

I say let them have a 75 or even a 100 range, but scouts DO need to be fixed right along with this: better range, more damage, and fix detection.

Um, Rogues were not the only players who were kvetching about Ice Blades. Virtually *every* complainant was either ranged or melee Phys DPS. There were some Mages in the mix, too. About the only ones who did *not* consistently complain were Knights, Druids, or other Priests, since they already had a fair amount of MDef that could *reduce* the damage that Ice Blades could (and can) do. But enough about that. It's past history that will not be changed.

No need to reduce the range of T/CT, there are already many ways to mitigate a Rogue in Hide who's stalking targets, with malice (and Combo Throw) aforethought.

As I said earlier, I could live with a small reduction to the main-hand DPS damage for Throw and Combo Throw. The actual projectile damage is relatively inconsequential, in general. The only real exception to that are rare (purple) projectiles such as One-Kill-A-Day.

Also remember that prior to RW changing T/CT, few Rogues, if any, bothered to put TP into those skills, or used an ASRS to reallocate that TP into other skills around level 55 or so. In order to utilize the "new and improved" T/CT, they either had to reallocate TP again, or use TP orbs to boost up those skills. Costly, either way.

I would say no damage nerf but maybe a range of 70-60 or something and definitely buff scouts power a little more so they are melee ranges dps again and not cannon fodder that's in the way and no nerf to the chances that it can hit

Imo, the R/M elite that made Combo Throw hit 4 times should have decreased the speed of casting to offset it, rather than made combo throw hit faster as well.

I think the range should be left alone and the damage should be brought down to a believable level, as R/M my CT/T are at level 60 each but they both hit way harder than my R/S lv80 Vamp Arrow/Shot coming out of a 10.6k pdam crossbow with combat master on, there is no way that should be remotely possible -.-

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahha

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Imo, the R/M elite that made Combo Throw hit 4 times should have decreased the speed of casting to offset it, rather than made combo throw hit faster as well.

The wording on the skill is hard to tell if it means it changes it to a .5 second cast, or adds a .5 second interval between the throws. But after getting the elite you see that it does in fact make the skill take longer to cast, 1.5 seconds total.