Runes of Magic US / AU

ill just clarify my point a little if it is still getting missed.

1) I am talking about the cost mostly in reference to NEW players (so I don't know why anyone keeps bringing up or alluding to me whining about gear prices since I am neither NEW nor discussing MY gear purchasing behavior).

2) New players will have to plus/etc that gear and have to spend money on it. That is too expensive... I think we all agree there, and that puts the ball in GF hands... no need to really discuss that part.

3) Most new players will have sell diamonds to get gold for gear. This is because questing doesn't give THAT much. They wont want to spend forever trying to farm what they can just to get some gear. They wont get into guilds running end game content to get it for free. This adds a cost for new players in RL money, which is VERY on topic for this thread. Since lots will try to transfer diamonds to gold to get these things.

4) The less the gear costs the less they will have to acquire/transfer to get said gear. Thus reducing their IRL costs for playing, which will keep players longer... which was the point of this thread right?

I think most of us wants this game to succeed, and I would hope all of us would want to do what we can to keep new players around. I know there are those that do help out newer players. I just was making a point that people wanting lower IS prices, under the veil of helping newer players should also be the ones selling gear cheaper to these newer players (AGAIN I am NOT talking about the cost to me.. I am NOT a new player). If you aren't, then you are merely trying to manipulate the system to your advantage. Ill explain that assessment:

You want prices lower so you need less diamonds to get what you want
You still want to make large amounts of money for the gear you get, which equates to more diamonds you can buy.
You then have the same amount of diamonds to buy cheaper IS items.
Advantage you.

New players then can get stuff cheaper to gear up too with diamonds
However they are then still stuck needing lots of gold (which most will try to get by selling diamonds) equating to still a high cost for new players, since gear prices wont change.

I am just saying new players wont have it better till BOTH parts are addressed. People are taking this as an attack, which I still don't even get. It is still the truth for new players and still something driving them away. I know this from helping newer players and asking them. Have you asked them recently if gear prices is something that drives them away? So why cant we talk about REALLY helping others.. instead of getting defensive?


I would also hope we can agree, we need new players to stay as well as old players. Old players will leave when bored/etc, without new players replacing them the game will die. These ideas also apply to casual gamers (which again I am NOT so I am NOT referring to me I have no problem dropping over 100 mil for gear.. I am NOT the average player)

Erm... I'll have to be in the Item Shop dealing with Item Shop prices LONG before I spare a single thought for endgame gear prices. By the time I actually get around to an endgame stage, I'm really not a "new player" anymore and I'm also probably not dealing with my very first set of gear. I'm gonna need decent gear long before I hit 85.

It feels like this started out as a thread about new players, the ones that start with nothing at level 1, and became a discussion about new endgamers.

There may be a lot of ways that this game could be made more affordable, but the Item Shop was very clearly stated as the main focus of this particular thread and it's because that's where most purchases are made. If you had to prioritize, would you rather save $10 or $100? I'd rather save $100.

i think the point people have about the game is the fact that reducing the IS makes the game cheaper for EVERYONE. f2p, p2p, p2, endgame, newbie, everybody benefits from cheaper dias/cheaper IS.

endgamers selling gear cheaper would make it easier for people gearing, but endgame costs would increase.

dia sellers selling cheaper dias would make endgame cheaper, but p2w/p2p cost would go up.

imo, just doing either of those would do absolutely nothing except piss off 1/2 the population, which this game REALLY cannot afford(pun intended).

if you want to reduce BOTH dia and gear prices at the same time, the dia/gear ratio would still be the same, and, well, that solves absolutely nothing except making it easier for the casual f2p, which, even though i am one, i don't think it would be healthy for the game to cater to.

also there is the problem of massive inflation. i have a theory, not sure if it's 100%, but worth a thought. as the game population decreases, each quitting player usually gives his gold to good friends. so even the players that quit, their gold doesn't go with the char, it goes back into circulation, added to the already rapidly increasing gold supply. this simply compounds the problem.




DK, you are advocating for cheaper endgame gear. ok, thats great. are you prepared to sell dias cheaper as well? there needs to be a balance, or else, like i said, people get fed up and leave(even more people). the dia/gear ratio(and thus, $/gear ratio) will most likely remain the same UNTIL the dia/$ or IS items/dia ratios get adjusted. until that happens, gearing will cost the same, or more, real money.


kill the f2p player and you kill the game.

same thing for p2p. give p2p a reason to quit and you shoot yourself in the foot.

but you see that is YOUR case. Who said that is the same case as all the other new players? You might only save 10 dollars.... others might save thousands.


For instance we had two guildies, on spent 100 dollars to turn into gold to start buying stats/gear cause he knew some things he knew he would need. The other one decided to quit because just seeing the prices of gear with no stats or plussing he left cause he said he would never get there without spending loads of money.


And not to nit pick but the title says: "Make the game more affordable for new players" I would figure if was only for the IS, it would say "Make the IS cheaper for new players". It seems more to me that you don't like what I am saying, therefore you would rather me not say it. I wouldn't have figured such animosity considering my suggestions are ways to "make the game more affordable for new players". Just cause the "main focus" is one thing.. does that mean nothing else can be discussed while staying on topic? That is kind of... censoring.

I wont name names but there have been lots of people that joined the game and in less than a month were level capped and working on getting gear. I have seen lots of them on Artemis, some stay... some go. I consider THEM new players. People don't do that as often anymore.

Using your logic, most new players, not "new endgame players" as you said, wouldn't have much need for puris or plussing gems EITHER. So that just torpedoed the major part of the IS purchases, now wouldn't it? The ones you are talking about who wont be getting the gear, wont be buying puris or plussers, or tiering weapns either. So the IS prices wouldn't effect them as much. Since most will agree that plussers/puris/charges make up the majority of IS purchases...

So either we are talking about the players that will be buying gear, statting, plussing, tiering or we aren't. Cause I don't know anyone that would spend the money to Tier up armor, or tier up weapons... that wouldn't be wanting the best gear they could get to do that to....


Edit to add: Cike... yes I am ok with lower Dia prices. First I have said they are too expensive... haven't I? like 50 times on the forums. Honestly I don't care, CAUSE I DONT SELL DIAMONDS. LIke I have said. That isn't how I make my gold. I mean when did I say diamond prices shouldn't go down? I am really getting tired of people accusing me of things. I have said TONS of times 200k dias are too much!!!, 150k I would argue is too much. look at the dia npc threads you will see me saying that. Jeepers I have taken that point of view for a long time now and is openly documented on the forums.


Game losing its F2P players

post 4; 6th paragraph I say they shouldn't be 250k, that is just ONE time I have said diamond prices should be lower.

But thinking a piece of UD gear is worth 10 RL dollars no matter the conversion rate of dias to gold... scares off players.

another one:

Id be ok with a diamond NPC and a Ruby NPC... unlimited uses, set a price... don't really care what price it is. Instead of selling diamonds ........ Sell gold. Then everyone would need these NPCs to transfer their gold to diamonds to buy anything. I would be ok with that. Diamonds at 100k per, unlimited number of transfers... Instead of selling diamonds for 1k per 20 bucks, Sell 100 million for 20 bucks. Problem Solved

Ok there is a lot of back and forth with Gear/Diamonds here is what i think

I have been more than willing in discussions to meet in the middle.. which is more than I can say for most on this thread.

Well i like Cike post :

i think the point people have about the game is the fact that reducing
the IS makes the game cheaper for EVERYONE. f2p, p2p, p2, endgame,
newbie, everybody benefits from cheaper dias/cheaper IS.



endgamers selling gear cheaper would make it easier for people gearing, but endgame costs would increase.

LMAO ROFL!!!

ENDGAME increases because of ENDGAMERS!!!

1st : Diamonds went as high as 300K per on AH, why? some endgamers buying them all at 80K they were and raising the prices to 300K, WHY? to be F2P forever and not giving a crap about the economy or the other players.

2nd : Now diamonds are being traded on Reni for 100K per, as the price of gear/stats gone down?? hell no it went up!!. Keep thinking endgamer will give you better prices, lol, they won't.

3rd : Would be nice if endgamers would do like 2 years ago, make pug groups and help people get their set-skill, quests done in hardmode, but NOOOOO!!! if a good piece of gear drops we need to sell it for 300M so everyone in that party gets his/her share to remain F2P.

4th : We try our best in Disturbed and other guilds on Reni to help where we can, help with quests/gear/set skills etc. Would be nice to see more people doing it, but too many are just being mean and disrespectful to others and try to bully them around.

5th : If more help was offered to players and new players, the community would be thriving, too much greed, self centered individuals that don't give a crap. So why should we sell diamonds to those people? let them get a job and buy their own. You sell your diamonds for 100K per and pay 1 piece of gear for 200M? come on, they are ripping you off.

6th : Ya IS prices should be dropped by 50% to make it more affordable and put items in there that need to be there full time.

As players and a community we can do a lot, but a few rotten eggs makes whole servers look bad. For new players it will make them turn around and say : hell with this, no one is willing to help. I don't mean hold them by the hands, but give them directions and the knowledge you acquired over the years. Stop bleeding people out of their diamonds at cheap prices for selling them gear at premium prices all the time.

It's all about the community and helping people, help others, it will help you in the end.

Okay, then to put this into perspective...

My classes are all level 30. My character started from 1. I have a mount, which allowed me to get wings (ruby bonus benefit). I bought charges so I could turn those fire elements from the event into a zodiac pet. I bought purified fusion stones because there's no regular fusion stones in the AH...used those to put some crap yellow stats (from the AH) on my cape to help with questing and leveling. Yes, people actually DO that, even though it's not endgame gear! I may even want a second piece like that, which means more purified fusion stones or gambling with a fusion stone NPC and possibly more charges. I like crafting, so some diamonds go towards those ends. Obviously, I have more than 3 classes, so there's another Item Shop purchase.

Not all new players would buy the things that I bought, but to act like the item shop has nothing of interest for new players is silly. There are a lot of things that can be purchased that have nothing to do with endgame or high levels. So far, 100% of my RL dollars went towards the Item Shop. 0% of my RL dollars went to endgamers. I don't feel like you're advocating for new players at all.

Can we also mention the fact that the reason ppl can flip items and diamonds is a direct result of the lack of a gold sink in the game, so the net gold on any given server taken across all toons and accounts is always non-zero positive? Thats a pretty terrible economic strategy.

Quoted from "Sturnidae"

Okay, then to put this into perspective...

My classes are all level 30. My character started from 1. I have a mount, which allowed me to get wings (ruby bonus benefit). I bought charges so I could turn those fire elements from the event into a zodiac pet. I bought purified fusion stones because there's no regular fusion stones in the AH...used those to put some crap yellow stats (from the AH) on my cape to help with questing and leveling. Yes, people actually DO that, even though it's not endgame gear! I may even want a second piece like that, which means more purified fusion stones or gambling with a fusion stone NPC and possibly more charges. I like crafting, so some diamonds go towards those ends. Obviously, I have more than 3 classes, so there's another Item Shop purchase.

Not all new players would buy the things that I bought, but to act like the item shop has nothing of interest for new players is silly. There are a lot of things that can be purchased that have nothing to do with endgame or high levels. So far, 100% of my RL dollars went towards the Item Shop. 0% of my RL dollars went to endgamers. I don't feel like you're advocating for me or new players like me at all.

Where did I say "the item shop has nothing of interest for new players " NO WHERE CAUSE I DIDNT SAY IT!!! I said the majority of IS purchases are those items. See, this is what I don't get... you don't even read what I post.

Nothing of what you said is NEEDED as a player, except MAYBE the mount. You don't NEED those classes, you don't NEED plussed wings, you don't NEED a zodiac. Extra classes SHOULD be expensive. Mounts will prolly never go down in price. As you said "Not all new players would buy the things that I bought" I would actually say 90% of them wouldn't, exception being the mount. So you are not the AVERAGE new player, which is what I am advocating. I never said I advocate for each individual new player and their infinite possible combinations of wants. Again putting words in my mouth.

So even if they do make "most used" IS items cheaper.. it woulda saved you very little money... if any. So why get so heated about this topic then? I get heated when people continuously misquote, make assumptions and change what I say to make their point. I mean I have already said... 2 times on this thread I agree with the IS being cheaper... but merely bringing up another idea to make the game better and as the topic says "cheaper for newer players"

which you didn't comment on most of what I said, but still managed to say I said things I didn't!

Also I said specifically "USING YOUR LOGIC", meaning that wasn't even my assessment but an inference made from YOUR comments.

Edit to add: Agreed Darwec

If the topic isn't about the Item Shop in its entirety and if it's not about new players that are new players, then yeah this topic has no interest for me. All my posts were based on what the OP stated in his first post, so if I misunderstood his points, then I apologize. From my understanding, the OP's main points have been completely derailed and I don't want anything I post to contribute further to that.

@DK: My recent comments simply support why I don't agree with your argument. Likewise, you don't have to agree with me either. I didn't come here to be persuaded one way or the other, just to voice my opinion on the topic as I understood it. But, I don't want to give a mod another reason to come back here by going back and forth with you on it. There's no point in that. Agree to disagree?

that is the part I really don't get cause I agree with the main part of your points... which is it needs to be a cheaper IS--- 4th time I have said this?

I just am saying it is ALSO (in conjunction with) a problem for newer players to gear if they have to spend lots of money to afford gear.

BOTH things are unappealing to new players that I have heard. I get why some people violently disagree with me on that....


But really as a new player, knowing that some gear might cost you $10 bucks a pop on top of IS items needed, doesn't put you off at all?


I get IS items are a bigger concern.. I am just adding other ways the game can be "cheaper for new players", since that is the topic of the thread. Cause we all agree on one way to make it cheaper, so lets talk about other ways too. Things that don't require GF to make a change... that is all.

@Dkjester - Thanks for targeting my guild in particular. You seem to know a LOT about us So much infact that well, you dont even know us. I know for a fact we help out many people besides our own guildies. Many times we have offered gear at low prices, or even free. Do we HAVE to do this? No.. The way you target us, and endgamers in general isn't right. For one, we get the gear from the instance that people use. I guess if you really wanted we could just start giving away gear, eventually leave the game due to being completely bored, and then no one would clear the endgame instances. Either way, you're pretty quick to assume. But if you'd rather I can offer you many references to people whom I have helped along with other guild mates. But enough ranting here, enjoy your day.

ok Nin, you are right that isn't 100% fair, there are people like you, Kanu and BB recently that have been doing good things. Those are just the ones I know off the top of my head. I should never say all when I mean majority. That is unfair but I was a little tipsy when I posted that so my usual, careful picking of words was not up to par.

I would like to apologize for that.

Now I have heard from some members of your guild of the inner workings and discussions. So they aren't assumptions, the only assumption I make is that this person isn't lieing to me.

The fact a new member in your guild was asking to pay for my identity is pretty hilarious though.

it may even be that most of the ones I know are part of the problem are gone... cant say for sure, so maybe my %s are off.

Well to me regardless of how new or seasoned a member is in our guild, they felt you were attacking us. When our family feels we've been attacked we don't take kindly to it. I understand mistakes are made, but you cannot blame a whole guild for a server/game problem. It just doesnt work that way. They merely wanted to know who you were so they could ask you why you were doing this on the forums if I recall. But to be on subject Josua is right. IS items are very overpriced. Its to a point now that I dont buy diamonds. I used to buy diamonds quite frequently, even after joining my guild and being geared. This game has become too expensive for me to deem it necessary to spend real money on it.

well they screwed you on your wand too, which is just not cool.

and yeah IS is overpriced, why would I NOT support getting more for my dollar? I would be a Ree-ree.

Maybe I am just still bitter about the "we are gonna charge 100 mil for an UD piece of gear" offensive that was launched and failed. Or maybe some of the actions of some members, that I wont ever forget. I prolly shoulda just left that whole thing out... mighta been easier to get my other point across.



Which is cheaper all around for new players is a good thing.

Everyone needs to go to the nearest lowbie they see and tell them "Shell gear is amazing".

Even better if they added a 4 piece set bonus of like 2k matk for each set of shell gear they release every level cap raise (since proof set bonus is like 1500 for 2 pieces, so 2k for 4 pieces should be decent without being too good).

I've read thru this and majority of you are way off.. The Subject of the thread is Make the game more affordable to NEW.. YES N..E..W.. Players. A new player is Level 1- 30ish. I keep reading posts about mid to endgame players. What does selling ISS OR endgame gear UD/OD no difference here, for any amount of money have ANYTHING to do with helping the level 1 to 30 player? The person NEW to the game. The take i'm getting here is everyone just trying to help themselves with the guise of helping the "new player". Yes the game is expensive, Most of the stuff your talking about though a level 1 - 30 could give 2 flippin sh*ts about. They don't care about IS prices, Not yet. Thats level 50'ish when you have to start gearing. New Players only care about 1 thing people. If the game is fun and friendly. They want to make friends and do stuff with people. Think.. Thats what brought you in when you were that shiny new level 1 whatever you are.

If the new player doesn't care about the IS, why would they care about the prices IN the item shop; and if they only care about game being fun and friendly, well, that costs nothing. In my book, when something costs "nothing", that means it is free. How much less expensive can that get?

+1 Drakkar :)

Nothing is as cheap as free :D

I don't remember spending ANY real life money until I got up around the 50's. So, for all intents and purposes, lvls 1-30 are freebie zones where RW gives IS items for free ( up to level 35? ).

& to be honest? I still remember those zones fondly... well, except for running all over Silverfall. lol Any of you remember how nasty Angry Jerkface was around Harf?

IF we're really talking about making things cheaper to entice new people? Have some common sense when you put stuff up in AH. There, I agree w/ DK.

As far as the Item Shoppe? It's always a work in progress... It all comes down to 1 thing that we've been told countless times... All GF cares about is the purchase of diamonds. Prices in IS could be 10x higher & they wouldn't care if people are still buying diamonds. So if you truly want to vote on IS pricing, vote with your wallet as I've seen many people do.

Make no mistakes, this has 0 to do with making the game more affordable for new players. All of the "Endgamers", "Midgamers", "f2p", "p2p", "p2w", lazy nerds... all of us are where we are from playing this game. It takes a combination of time and money to do anything in this game. If new players enjoy it and enjoy putting lots of time in the time, good for them; it's a free game. If a new player enjoys the game but doesn't have time to play and are willing to spend real life money, good for them; it's a fun game.

I don't know about you guys, but when I start a new RPG, I don't put much faith in anyone helping me out. I solo'd all of the lower instances and died multiple times at, or a little above level. I didn't join a guild until probably after my 4th or 5th toon. What I'm saying? New players will survive, unless they don't.

If you have a new player that quits because they can't buy their way to "Endgame," ( with gold or diamonds ) is that really a player this game needs?

I find the description of new players being only 1-30ish level wise a little bit humorous. By this definition, some new players would only be classified as new for 1 day. Others a few days. While it might be quite gray on a definite definition, I cannot disagree more with that classification.

personally, I think "new" is relative to time spent ingame, and with it, comes the knowledge base developed by simply playing. time of playing, level, its all irrelevant. heck, I know some people lvl 80+ that I would still classify as "new".