Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "gigilomann"

I can understand this fora mage or from a pvp standpoint. But as for pve i see this as more of apromotion jsut to use more buff alts. more buffs guys that means faster burn!

I think the idea has potential but could get abused. no thanks.

I don't think it'll be that dramatic in PvE. With asbw, I've never fad buff cap problems even with M/P, P/S, D/Wd, Wd/S, C/P at the same time. I mean, we dont use any HP buffs anymore...

And there's really only so many amazing buff alts that are better than 1 DPS. There's not an infinitely many number of buffs as good as C/P. Also, I don't really see the problem with more support classes even if people do want to bring more for raised buff cap. With so many people talking about how expensive endgame is, I'm surprised there's not more people rerolling as support to get on the "get endgame for free" bandwagon.

I didn't know debuffs count towards the buff limit though o_O That just makes no sense...

Removing all buffs would be nice. Really annoying to take stable buff and guild HP for sw then have it left after for that 40-50 mins. Only time I ever wanna hit buff cap xD

The more buffs you get the less you need other people. Instead of a party of real people doing an instance you now have one person with unlimited buffs. Cut the total buffs allowed to 10 and you will have to go back to playing with real people and no alts. Which these people would find a sad state of affairs.

Please tell me how you plan on getting unlimited buffs with a cap of 12 ppl on Hard Mode lol

Please tell me how you plan to do instances with 10 buffs only xD Fungus garden maybe, but endgame? Not a chance.

Buff limit at 10 would do nothing but drive people away. I doubt you run around all the time with less than 10 buffs, aardvark. Especially during sw or instances. There's BAS, Guild towers (that would be another 6 maximum), stable buff, mount, pet active buffs (1-3 buffs), class buffs, zodiac buffs, housekeeper buffs, and more. Just listed above is more than 10.

The number of buffs magnifies the class imbalances. Every buff added to dp increases the difference between the current op classes and the rest. As you increase the number of buffs the differences become more and more insane and make many classes unplayable. The difference between classes at low levels was manageable but as the classes grew and the number of buffs grew it is now just absurd.
Buffs are not the only part of the problem but they exasperate it the more buffs added to the current unbalanced state of the game make it worse in every way. Start by limiting the number of buffs and you will restore some of the balance.

Actually, if classes are affected by the same buffs, then they scale the same. 2X/3X can have an X factored out of it. There will still be a 2/3 difference between the two with or without the buff X. Only difference is when classes get different buffs. 2Y/3Z is not a difference of 2/3 and the whole purpose of different combos are for those different buffs. The only difference would be with scouts and rogues (it's not just rogues, but it's just an example) both getting an attack speed buff since scouts don't get a damage increase from more attack speed whereas rogues do.

A rather silly comparison 2/3 x and 2/3 y never end up with the same result when x does not equal y. A 2/3 buff of 1,000,000 damage which a lot of people in the op classes can easily do now is 666,666. But the non op classes are only doing 500,000 damage which is actually half of the op class damage while many classes do far less than half the damage of op classes and 2/3 of the 500000 is 333,333 so only half of the increase the op classes get. Making the difference between the classes even worse. Instead of original 500,000 damage difference the difference is now 833,333 making the class imbalance even worse. Each additional buff makes it worse. Same example starting with 100k hp you end up with 166k while starting with 50k you end up with 83k the difference at the end is what matters not the percent each gets .
It breaks down to a difference of 500k becomes 600k after 1 buff after 2 it becomes 700k etc by the time you get up to 10 buffs you can have a difference of millions between the classes. That is the current state of the game.

Which using round figures to show an example using your 2/3 example for buffs. The reasoning is that the buffs make the imbalance worse. It is the old story if everyone in a company gets a 5% raise the guy who makes 1,000,000 a year gets a 50,000 raise and buys a new BMW, the guy who makes 10,000 a year gets 500 and can buy hamburger once a week. That is what happens every time you use a buff and each buff stacks on the last which makes it worse.

What I was using the 2/3 as an example of is comparing two people with different values. Say one has the value of 2, the other has 3. Then, both using the same buff X, the ratio turns from 2:3 to 2X:3X. If you divide 2X by 3X, you still have the original ratio of 2:3. So, while, yes, each percent buff stacks on the other, if using the same buffs, they still have the original ratio. It seems like the gap is getting bigger, but that's because the % buffs work off of the individual values. What changes the ratios are when people have different buffs.

I'm trying to figure out your math aardvark...

2/3 of 1,000,000 is 666,666.
2/3 of 500,000 is 333,333.

666,666 - 333,333 = 333,333.

Where do you get 833,333 from?

500,000 + 333,333 = 833,333
1,000,000 + 666,666 = 1,666,666

That being said, 1,666,666/833,333 = 2 and 1,000,000/500,000 = 2 which is the same ratio as the values with the buffs.

What I have been saying is ratios don't matter as much as the actual damage done or hp added etc. As the difference in the actual damage done or hp or defenses becomes more and more out of balance it makes classes less and less playable. 2/3 of 10 k is a meaningless difference in this game but 2/3 of a million is enough to make classes unplayable. Focusing on ratios is absurd you have to focus on the actual damage done, hp or defense added. When those numbers are out of balance by hundreds of thousands and in some cases of dp millions because of added buffs as they are currently, it is ruining the game.

Even if buffs were capped everyone would still play the FoTM classes because they would STILL be better than the other classes in the game. Capping buffs fixes absolutely nothing.

But people would still choose the OP combos. They'll still be doing more damage, no matter if you remove buffs or not. Sure, the difference may grow ever larger, but that doesn't change the fact that the OP combos do more than the non OP combos. Removing the buffs would not make more combos endgame viable. Nothing would change other than being aggravating to people.

Limiting buffs won't make non-fotm class combos become any more OP or better than the ones that are currently fotm in the first place, the only way to make these class combos seen as viable is to make them either bring something to the table that's worth something, match their DPS up on par with the fotm classes, and/or (I personally dislike this one) nerf the fotm class combos

I have always wondered if they were to change the buffs setup what it would do to the game.

First, I would never say to reduce the buff cap. Instead I would alter what buffs "stack" and don't. There are already instances where there is an imbalance here. D/wd Pattk buff doesn't stack with Priest pattk buff... or it didn't last I checked. Yet P/s and M/P ones do. By reducing what stacks and doesn't would effectively reduce the number of buffs that one can use, while not having to alter the existing buff cap. Same could be done with debuffs, only one of each "class" of debuff allowed being classified as pdef, mdef, both, and misc. This would reduce the "alt to burn" syndrome.

This would make the game less "stack to win"... but at this point in the game I am sure doing this would probably cause more harm then good. It would most likely just drive off players. Looking at it from a "risk to lose players- to reward" angle... better to just increase the buff cap.

I don't think you can burn first boss of new instance, and not sure at all about 2nd boss's strat (if it has one) since I have yet to get that far xD. Also, d/w still doesn't stack with priest. Also, that still leaves the issue of debuffs being able to push off buffs.