Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Heddin"

4) I actually like Zid's idea or of someone else above, too lazy to scroll up, in that you have to kill guards before capping, make it that towers simply cant be capped till guards are dead - that may solve all issues, imho

Just passing by to give credit to BB. It was discussed in the SW feedback thread on the latest big changes they made to it.

[Feedback/Discussion] SiegeWar Changes

Consequences of this TERRIBLE idea of requirement to kill all guards before capping

- End of all last second ninja caps which makes closely matched sieges fun and exciting all the way to the end.

- Less fighting just more boring defending. Why even bother going to the enemy's mid or home towers when you know it's almost impossible to capture it? You're far better off just having the whole guild go to your own mid tower, camping there the whole hour and setting defenses, and constantly healing your big guard.

- Every siege outcome will be 100% predictable right from the start. Closely matched sieges will always end in draws and mismatches of course always end with the stronger guild winning anyway. Guilds with weaker players will never capture a single tower and every siege will be a draw.

Quoted from "Mythomage"

Quoted from "Countduke"

Quoted from "Mythomage"

Fearless only against players, guards/traps can still hit you under Fearless.

Fearless is when u are imune to anything for a few seconds so gaurds /traps cant get you

Change Fearless to what I said,ty!

oh & i think thats not a good idea for that to happen to change it like that

A suggestion is always open for discussion. Instead of shooting it down, you should add to it. E.g. others said, make big guard a bit weaker if you need all 3 to be dead to cap tower. Tbh imo it's ridiculous as they are now. The tower guard is as strong as the one summoned by the Herald.

I feel siege now is a thousand times better than before when guards were so weak that all we did was farm them for merits the whole hour and never even bothered capturing towers and I don't want siege to head back in that direction again even one millimeter, so I feel weakening the big guard is not a good idea.

I also feel that any change that removes the last second drama of ninja capping, such as making fearless only work against players and not traps or guards, is a bad idea and diminishes siege by taking away one of the possible ways you can win or tie. I feel that more variety makes it less boring and predictable. It's the same reason I feel that no nerfs should be made to k/m or c/m skills because even though they are annoying classes to fight against, they make siege more interesting and fun than it would be if everyone was just a rogue or m/wd.

Maybe one thing they can do to rein in fearless capping is just make the cooldown for fearless longer, like 15 min. This way the most fearless caps you can do in siege is just 3 total, and since everyone saves one for the last minute anyway, there will only be 2 fearless caps for most of the hour.

Quoted from "radeon"

I feel siege now is a thousand times better than before when guards were so weak that all we did was farm them for merits the whole hour and never even bothered capturing towers and I don't want siege to head back in that direction again even one millimeter, so I feel weakening the big guard is not a good idea.

I also feel that any change that removes the last second drama of ninja capping, such as making fearless only work against players and not traps or guards, is a bad idea and diminishes siege by taking away one of the possible ways you can win or tie. I feel that more variety makes it less boring and predictable. It's the same reason I feel that no nerfs should be made to k/m or c/m skills because even though they are annoying classes to fight against, they make siege more interesting and fun than it would be if everyone was just a rogue or m/wd.

Maybe one thing they can do to rein in fearless capping is just make the cooldown for fearless longer, like 15 min. This way the most fearless caps you can do in siege is just 3 total, and since everyone saves one for the last minute anyway, there will only be 2 fearless caps for most of the hour.

There aren't thatttt many m/wd's in siege >.> lol

And +1 able enjoying siege more now, and not wanting to see any class nerfs even to one shot oriented classes, because it really does make siege more diverse and interesting. HOWEVER I do agree with magio that the big tower guard should not be equally as hard to kill as the honor guard minus the stuns ;p maybe drop him down to 15-20m hp but leave his atk/def the same

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

Quoted from "radeon"

I feel siege now is a thousand times better than before when guards were so weak that all we did was farm them for merits the whole hour and never even bothered capturing towers and I don't want siege to head back in that direction again even one millimeter, so I feel weakening the big guard is not a good idea.

I also feel that any change that removes the last second drama of ninja capping, such as making fearless only work against players and not traps or guards, is a bad idea and diminishes siege by taking away one of the possible ways you can win or tie. I feel that more variety makes it less boring and predictable. It's the same reason I feel that no nerfs should be made to k/m or c/m skills because even though they are annoying classes to fight against, they make siege more interesting and fun than it would be if everyone was just a rogue or m/wd.

Maybe one thing they can do to rein in fearless capping is just make the cooldown for fearless longer, like 15 min. This way the most fearless caps you can do in siege is just 3 total, and since everyone saves one for the last minute anyway, there will only be 2 fearless caps for most of the hour.

There aren't thatttt many m/wd's in siege >.> lol

And +1 able enjoying siege more now, and not wanting to see any class nerfs even to one shot oriented classes, because it really does make siege more diverse and interesting. HOWEVER I do agree with magio that the big tower guard should not be equally as hard to kill as the honor guard minus the stuns ;p maybe drop him down to 15-20m hp but leave his atk/def the same

I'd say drop his hp down to 15m, personally.

@Radeon: If High Energy Barrier were to be changed, they should just make the buff be labeled as a Beneficial Effect. Then it would have a counter.

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

And +1 able enjoying siege more now, and not wanting to see any class nerfs even to one shot oriented classes, because it really does make siege more diverse and interesting. HOWEVER I do agree with magio that the big tower guard should not be equally as hard to kill as the honor guard minus the stuns ;p maybe drop him down to 15-20m hp but leave his atk/def the same

i have done all levels of siege both before and after the last changes and to be honest there is no 1 solution to fit all.
there are some guilds not many but a few that siege that can't take towers without fear cap and they give there all in siege win or lose.
Then there are other guilds that do immune capping or hide caps which to me is fine you are just using the skills you have and to me fear capping just levels the playing field.

i do agree the middle guard should be reduced in hp and or maybe a small decrease in defense that would make more of a difference in the lower to middle sieges then the higher ones but most of those at least the ones i've been in was more about number of players and skill/gear and planning.
the only other change that i think would help is have the guards aggro no matter if your immune or not that way it requires a little more timing and planning for those type of caps.

i have been in a wide range of points for sw and fear capping has always been there.
i do however agree that tower guard is a little to strong.
sw should be for every guild not just the elite end-game types.

Quoted from "timthum"

i have been in a wide range of points for sw and fear capping has always been there.
i do however agree that tower guard is a little to strong.
sw should be for every guild not just the elite end-game types.

The middle guard has way too much of everything, and honestly it's only made worse by the amount of HP it has in comparison to his partners at the tower, I still say hide capping is worse than fearless capping, at least fearless has a time limit to it.

Quoted from "radeon"

I feel siege now is a thousand times better than before when guards were so weak that all we did was farm them for merits the whole hour and never even bothered capturing towers and I don't want siege to head back in that direction again even one millimeter, so I feel weakening the big guard is not a good idea.

Again, you're assuming they will get weakened too much. I can't remember the last time I actually killed a Guild Guard Leader, even with a pretty decent sized group at the tower. Now they just get pulled away while the tower gets capped because any skills used on them is a waste.

The suggestion here is to weaken them so they're killable as a group and it doesn't take as long as it does now, but still too strong to solo/duo/trio in a short amount of time. Gotta find that balance. They were buffed from one shot scrubs to unkillable gods. When you find that balance, needing them to be dead to cap sounds a bit more acceptable.

Quoted from "radeon"

I also feel that any change that removes the last second drama of ninja capping

I, and probably most people here, have no problem with last second ninja capping as long as people actually earn that shot. When everyone in a guild is just keeping the main gate up using alts and %heal classes, while 3+ people hide around tower for the last half of siege just to ninja cap at the end it doesn't give that "oh they earned it" feeling. That's when it's just dumb. When siege becomes a game of hide-and-seek instead of PvP, because guilds are trying to punch above their weight, it's just a boring waste of time.

If a guild actually came out of their castle and fought to keep the opposition out of their castle for the full hour and then pulled a ninja cap to win at the end I wouldn't be mad, for long... because to be honest that's just amazing.

Quoted from "Magío"

If a guild actually came out of their castle and fought to keep the opposition out of their castle for the full hour and then pulled a ninja cap to win at the end I wouldn't be mad, for long... because to be honest that's just amazing.

Upgrades pretty much prevent that from happening though. The winning guild is going to easily get max upgrades, whereas the guild being crushed will have none. If you're being crushed on an even playing field in terms of upgrades, you're definitely not going to be able to do anything 0 upgrades vs max upgrades.

Quoted from "Magío"

The suggestion here is to weaken them so they're killable as a group and it doesn't take as long as it does now, but still too strong to solo/duo/trio in a short amount of time. Gotta find that balance. They were buffed from one shot scrubs to unkillable gods. When you find that balance, needing them to be dead to cap sounds a bit more acceptable.

When they manage to find that balance, if they don't require all three guards to be dead, every tick of "Playerx from Guildx guild is attacking Bellin Tower" should be an auto taunt for all three guards (or any of them that are still alive) and immediately put the player in combat. Then, you'd need someone to be able to tank them even with the auto taunt to keep the cap going.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Upgrades pretty much prevent that from happening though. The winning guild is going to easily get max upgrades, whereas the guild being crushed will have none. If you're being crushed on an even playing field in terms of upgrades, you're definitely not going to be able to do anything 0 upgrades vs max upgrades.

Ok assuming a guild is being crushed that bad, why should they get a chance to win at the end just because they can spam alts on a gate? If they're being crushed that bad either they got a bad matchup or they don't deserve to have that many points. Or you think they do?

I'm pretty sure most people annoyed by fearless capping are thinking of the situation I mentioned.

Ideally, how many people should be required/present/coordinated to cap one tower?

The auto-attacks of the middle guard could carry a purge/anti-fearless effect. The burning blaze aoe and/or the small guard auto-attack could also carry such an effect. (In addition, capping should generate a small amount of aggro per second on all guards.)

Quoted from "Zerienga"

@Radeon: If High Energy Barrier were to be changed, they should just make the buff be labeled as a Beneficial Effect. Then it would have a counter.

I do think you are right that high energy barrier should be reduced because that would make castle attacks to destroy buildings an actual tactic that we can use right from the start and not only after one guild has totally dominated the other one and is trying to take the crystal. This would introduce another way to win or lose and make siege more exciting.

Quoted from "Magío"

Again, you're assuming they will get weakened too much. I can't remember the last time I actually killed a Guild Guard Leader, even with a pretty decent sized group at the tower. Now they just get pulled away while the tower gets capped because any skills used on them is a waste.

The suggestion here is to weaken them so they're killable as a group and it doesn't take as long as it does now, but still too strong to solo/duo/trio in a short amount of time. Gotta find that balance. They were buffed from one shot scrubs to unkillable gods. When you find that balance, needing them to be dead to cap sounds a bit more acceptable.

The problem is where is this balance? I don't see how this is any different than the instance problem of trying to balance burn or die or burn or strat. Right now you say that out of 100 guilds that siege it's almost impossible for any to be able to kill the big guard. Suppose they lower the hp down some number, say 10% or whatever. How many guilds do you think would be able to kill the guard then in a reasonable time to be able to cap the tower? Maybe 1-5 guilds? So what are the other guilds suppose to do, just log in and sit around for an hour putting heals on the big guard and high energy barrier on their gates? Seriously when you put this restriction of having to kill the guards to cap, most sieges will end with not one single tower ever being taken, regardless of whether you weaken the big guard a little. When there are no towers being taken, there's no activity and you end up with boring as hell sieges.

Being able to cap the tower by distracting the guards is the best 'one size fits all' solution. It's a great idea and better than any other idea. Every single guild is capable of taking a tower by this as long as you have at least 2 people (including warden pet) working together. Instead of just 5 guilds being able to cap a tower quickly in the case of having to kill all the guards, we have 90 out of 100 guilds that can cap the tower. Do you want to just turn siege into a hardmode instance where you have to have enough power to be able to burn the boss quickly in order to get the prize? Siege is not just a dps contest.

Quoted from "Magío"

I, and probably most people here, have no problem with last second ninja capping as long as people actually earn that shot. When everyone in a guild is just keeping the main gate up using alts and %heal classes, while 3+ people hide around tower for the last half of siege just to ninja cap at the end it doesn't give that "oh they earned it" feeling. That's when it's just dumb. When siege becomes a game of hide-and-seek instead of PvP, because guilds are trying to punch above their weight, it's just a boring waste of time.

If a guild actually came out of their castle and fought to keep the opposition out of their castle for the full hour and then pulled a ninja cap to win at the end I wouldn't be mad, for long... because to be honest that's just amazing.

Quoted from "Magío"

Ok assuming a guild is being crushed that bad, why should they get a chance to win at the end just because they can spam alts on a gate? If they're being crushed that bad either they got a bad matchup or they don't deserve to have that many points. Or you think they do?

Ninja caps only come in to play when it's closely contested, when guilds are fighting for the mids. No guild that's being crushed and lost every tower ever wins by a last second ninja cap. If this ever really happens, then that means one guild failed miserably and deserves to lose. But again, if you take fearless caps out by either eliminating it altogether or requiring all the guards to be killed before capping, siege will no longer be unpredictable and exciting all the way to the end.

Quoted from "Magío"

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Upgrades pretty much prevent that from happening though. The winning guild is going to easily get max upgrades, whereas the guild being crushed will have none. If you're being crushed on an even playing field in terms of upgrades, you're definitely not going to be able to do anything 0 upgrades vs max upgrades.

Ok assuming a guild is being crushed that bad, why should they get a chance to win at the end just because they can spam alts on a gate? If they're being crushed that bad either they got a bad matchup or they don't deserve to have that many points. Or you think they do?

I'm pretty sure most people annoyed by fearless capping are thinking of the situation I mentioned.

That wasn't really a comment on fearless capping. Just that what you asked for is an ideal that doesn't actually get realized in a real siege.

Although in a siege like that, if you had an entire siege to build up defenses, there should be reason that the opponent can even get close to a tower to holy aura. Their home tower, perhaps, if they had a K/P, but certainly not a mid tower. They would just be killed as soon as they even leave the castle. With all the defenses, no opponent should be able to hide, and if three people can walk through completely unnoticed while they get feared all over the place, what was the stronger guild doing?

Stop making ignorant assumptions. I know it's happened because people were just too fed up with having to log in P/R alts one day and just went with it, guess what? They lost 4 towers. I'm sure Kinky bragged about it. Idky people here from Govinda have no idea...

I'm not surprised you have no idea what I've experienced since you're in a lower point bracket where sieges are a bit more even. People get alts, sometimes even mains (even if they're on a combo they don't usually play as their main class combo vs an opponent of their same caliber e.g. a K/W goes K/P or a R/M goes R/P for the sole purpose of fear capping towers), and hide em for 40+ minutes. You realize how vast the siege map is? The forests around home towers and the mountains on mid? You really think it's necessary to have 1 hour sieges searching for Lv50 alts when we should just be able to overpower and take their crystal if they weren't able to spam alts on a gate?

This is when Siege War is not Siege War anymore but Hide-and-Seek, while I spam my main gate with 2+ Ch/M's, P/Wl, D/W... While K/P's R/P's are doing nothing but trying to get in position all siege. One of them is going to be able to sneak by at some point if they didn't afk in the forests since early in Siege War before defenses are massively placed on the map.

Tell me, how do you stop a K/P or R/P from ninja capping other than Purge?

K/P has Holy Aura, Serenstum+Holy Shield. That's 10s immune to get to a tower while moving super fast with Hall of Dead Heroes, Spellweaver, Thunderforce/Assault Time/Godspeed/Mad Rush

R/P has Escape, Serenstum, Holy Aura, Spellweaver, (Siege Speed Buffs)

Even if Ch/M barrier were made a Beneficial Effect, guilds already log in 2+ Ch/M alts so they'll just make more. So we'd need to make a ton of P/R alts to counter that too. This is Siege War not Alt War...

You say "If you're dominating that hard you should be able to stop ninja caps at the end". That's not the point of Siege War, if a guild is getting dominated that hard they should lose.

Quoted from "Magío"

Stop making ignorant assumptions. I know it's happened because people were just too fed up with having to log in P/R alts one day and just went with it, guess what? They lost 4 towers. I'm sure Kinky bragged about it. Idky people here from Govinda have no idea...

I'm not surprised you have no idea what I've experienced since you're in a lower point bracket where sieges are a bit more even. People get alts, sometimes even mains (even if they're on a combo they don't usually play as their main class combo vs an opponent of their same caliber e.g. a K/W goes K/P or a R/M goes R/P for the sole purpose of fear capping towers), and hide em for 40+ minutes. You realize how vast the siege map is? The forests around home towers and the mountains on mid? You really think it's necessary to have 1 hour sieges of searching for Lv50 alts when we should just be able to overpower and take their crystal if they weren't able to spam alts on a gate?

This is when Siege War is not Siege War anymore but Hide-and-Seek, while I spam my main gate with 2+ Ch/M's, P/Wl, D/W... While K/P's R/P's are doing nothing but trying to get in position all siege. One of them is going to be able to sneak by at some point if they didn't do it early and afk in the forests since early in Siege War before defenses are massively placed on the map.

Tell me, how do you stop a K/P or R/P from ninja capping other than Purge?

K/P has Holy Aura, Serenstum+Holy Shield. That's 10s immune to get to a tower while moving super fast with Hall of Dead Heroes, Spellweaver, Thunderforce/Assault Time/Godspeed/Mad Rush

R/P has Escape, Serenstum, Holy Aura, Spellweaver, (Siege Speed Buffs)

Even if Ch/M barrier were made a Beneficial Effect, guilds already log in 2+ Ch/M alts so they'll just make more. So we'd need to make a ton of P/R alts to counter that too. This is Siege War not Alt War...

You say "If you're dominating that hard you should be able to stop ninja caps at the end". That's not the point of Siege War, if a guild is getting dominated that hard they should lose.

this guy gets it

Quoted from "Magío"

Stop making ignorant assumptions. I know it's happened because people were just too fed up with having to log in P/R alts one day and just went with it, guess what? They lost 4 towers. I'm sure Kinky bragged about it. Idky people here from Govinda have no idea..

I'm not surprised you have no idea what I've experienced since you're in a lower point bracket where sieges are a bit more even. People get alts, sometimes even mains (even if they're on a combo they don't usually play as their main class combo vs an opponent of their same caliber e.g. a K/W goes K/P or a R/M goes R/P for the sole purpose of fear capping towers), and hide em for 40+ minutes. You realize how vast the siege map is? The forests around home towers and the mountains on mid? You really think it's necessary to have 1 hour sieges searching for Lv50 alts when we should just be able to overpower and take their crystal if they weren't able to spam alts on a gate?

The very first argument you have is to call me ignorant? That's says nothing, really, and I'm sure you're mature enough to realize that. And yes, I realize your guild has a lot of siege point. If the very second argument you have is that I should therefore instantly be convinced by everything you say by virtue of that, I will have to tell you that I am also not very convinced by that argument.


Yes, I did see it last night. KW tied with PPK. I've seen my fair share of ninja caps. Single ninja caps are common, double caps rare, and triple caps, almost never. I have seen in two successful triple caps so far in the past year (I don't remember longer than that).

I do recall that PPK was one of the first (well known) guilds to spam alts on gates. I remember when a couple guilds actually declared that they won't siege PPK because of the alts they were using on their gates back then. So if you have the least to complain about regarding not being able to cap a crystal because of them.

Quoted from "Magío"

This is when Siege War is not Siege War anymore but Hide-and-Seek, while I spam my main gate with 2+ Ch/M's, P/Wl, D/W... While K/P's R/P's are doing nothing but trying to get in position all siege. One of them is going to be able to sneak by at some point if they didn't afk in the forests since early in Siege War before defenses are massively placed on the map.

Tell me, how do you stop a K/P or R/P from ninja capping other than Purge?

K/P has Holy Aura, Serenstum+Holy Shield. That's 10s immune to get to a tower while moving super fast with Hall of Dead Heroes, Spellweaver, Thunderforce/Assault Time/Godspeed/Mad Rush

R/P has Escape, Serenstum, Holy Aura, Spellweaver, (Siege Speed Buffs)

Even if Ch/M barrier were made a Beneficial Effect, guilds already log in 2+ Ch/M alts so they'll just make more. So we'd need to make a ton of P/R alts to counter that too. This is Siege War not Alt War...

You say "If you're dominating that hard you should be able to stop ninja caps at the end". That's not the point of Siege War, if a guild is getting dominated that hard they should lose.

Ninja caps will inevitably happen. I'm personally indifferent to it, so I don't know how I was dragged into this from just pointing out the ideal of fighting back vs impossible upgrades cannot be realized. But anyway, you mentioned that triple caps are what's bothering you most with ninja caps in one of your previous posts, if I recall correctly. Those should not happen that easily (try doing a triple ninja cap with your guild vs a dominating guild, and you may appreciate the difficulty of even trying to leave the castle with a million flame towers everywhere and not get noticed). Your guild should NOT be consistently allowing opponents to triple cap your towers if you're crushing them that bad.

If you had an entire siege to defend, your defenses should be well spread far out. Electrics have a long range, and unless you're defending against a large push, they can be spread fairly thinly and a few will cover a huge area. That's only assuming if your opponents can even leave their castle without being seen.

If you were "too busy" managing your alts and just expect the opponent to quietly roll over while you focus your attention elsewhere, I'm not sure what you were expecting.