Runes of Magic US / AU

Or weak/ low population guilds can just merg and become stronger.

Quoted from "kingzamorak"

Or weak/ low population guilds can just merg and become stronger.

been saying that for ages but for instances

cant make ppl do stuff they dont want to

Quoted from "Cenre"

issue with going purely on points, is that you will end up with the same enemies everytime if you're the top guilds. Which is not fun for them, nor the people below them, so people will move to low point guilds and just crush 400-500 point guilds.

Only reason it might not work is population. By points I mean randomly
get matched up with idk either one of the 5 guilds below/above you.
That's 10 guilds you can get matched up with for middle guilds. Top 4-6
guilds might need a little tweak...

Basically this below... I don't see much point in being a small guild anymore.

Quoted from "kingzamorak"

Or weak/ low population guilds can just merg and become stronger.

sounds alot like with how the old points system was, just without point droppers. I would be fine with this situation.

Honestly, before this most recent change it seemed like the time of signup influenced matchups. That's why I said "points and ONLY points".

I know because a few times my guild would sign up really late and we'd get matched with another guild that was signed up late even tho our points were 50k+ in difference. Just because we both signed up at similar times.

Also, sometimes we'd camp the guild that was a good match for us, and a fun siege, and sign up right after they did. Worked too often.

Cannot say i ever noticed that, interesting theory though. would love to know if that was the case or not.

Having to sign up several guilds for seige I can attest to the late signing thing. But not the sign at same time thing. Over the years (lol, well since they changed seige sign up to 2 hours before instead of 23 hours) what I have noticed is that if you sign up in the first 45 minutesr everything seems to come out normally. But, boy, if you sign up in the last 15 minutes matchups are all over the place. Now, with this latest change, well, there is definitely a castle level influence way out of proportion to points, and though we are now seeing different guilds than we saw before, I cannot say that that is an enjoyable experience for either side.

Since the change in siege line-up, our guild has decided not to play, we are hoping the situation changes soon as we have always been a sieging guild. Siege is the best part of the game for a guild, its the one place (besides Tempest Heights) where everyone can play together as a group regardless of level or class. We have always enjoyed the hour of siege where we can play as a team and enjoy the abilities and fun of the characters we've created. There is more camaraderie in siege that really makes a guild form a family in this game. The other great thing about siege is that it is one hour of the day, and allows all of us a set time to play without having to worry we can't do it because of real life responsibilities, we can plan it and know we are done in an hour. When we go on runs its a different situation, sometimes they take several hours and people drop in, others have to drop out, no one's fault, it just is. Siege though really brings us all together and along with it, the best fun we have, just being with good friends we've made, sometimes we have laughed so hard for that one hour that none of us are ever likely to forget it. Please fix siege, we miss the best part of this game!

Quoted from "Yungyeezus"

How on earth did siege require more skill before, it was literally whoever can spam their buttons faster and has a better computer just wins cuz whoever gets the first shot off wins lol. Atleast now the fights are longer and there's more opportunity now to use different skills and items and such, as opposed to rogues just dominating because of hide.

[scout] [rogue]

Quoted from "Indigo-Luiz"

Quoted from "Yungyeezus"

How on earth did siege require more skill before, it was literally whoever can spam their buttons faster and has a better computer just wins cuz whoever gets the first shot off wins lol. Atleast now the fights are longer and there's more opportunity now to use different skills and items and such, as opposed to rogues just dominating because of hide.

[scout] [rogue]

That only apply s to people using Honor gear, anyone not in honor gear is still a 1 hit depending on type of class.

May I suggest to group the 1st 6 guilds with highest point and random match against them. and group the 2nd patch of 6 guild and random march up. so by this way the low point guild will not be match against the high point guild and they have fun to fight among the low points guilds.

Quoted from "Indigo-Luiz"

[scout] [rogue]

Good rogues know that the range of shadow prison is the same (or nearly the same) as detection. So a rogue uses some kind of speed buff, and before a scout can see +react to hit the rogue, the rogue could shadow prison the scout, then combo throw (or if they're fast enough just run up and low blow). Back in the day before the prevalence of honor gear, this was 100% a dead scout. EVERY time. Without fail. The only time scout accomplished anything is when a rogue didn't see the scout firist which was rare (invis pot, invis tower, hill/wall blocking vision).

Here is how I would potentially design the siege war matching system..

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High level:
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- Tier based.
- 'Randomized' within each tier with some priority focus based on points and if did s/w the prior day.
- Doesn't matter when a guild registers for siege war within the registering period (e.g. right away vs. last minute).

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Variables at play for people to keep in mind
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- How many teams sign up for a particular siege war time slot.
- How many even number of teams should be put in a tier. Six can be initially suggested, but it could be more (or less). The lower the number teams per tier will typically result in the same teams being matched up more often.

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Process Flow:
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1) For each team that signed up (and after registration period is over), order them all by points first, then by if they played the prior day or not if there are the same amount of points across different teams, then simply by guild name if the first two options are identical (this third option shouldn't happen too often).
2) For each even <x> number of teams, put them in tiers of available choices (tier A, B, etc). The lowest tier may not have an even number depending on how many guilds sign up.
3) For each tier of available choices, now order the teams based on if they were previously matched, then points. If, for example, a guild that signs up for this next match hasn't fought anyone the day before, that guild will be processed first. If there are others in a similar boat, then it will be sorted by highest points next, then simply by guild name if the first two are identical.
4) For each tier (and team) going in order, go down the list until no more teams are available for that tier by randomly assigning the current team selected against another team that is available in that same tier. If that team that gets selected matches who this current team fought against the day prior, than try randomly assigning one more time.

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Typical S/W complaints to address based on this matching system:
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- 'Teams not matched up with anyone' - There are times when I see high level point guilds not matched up with anyone even though plenty of other lower guilds have been. I don't get this and this system would not allow this to happen. At least not when many guilds sign up. Now, if there happens to be an uneven amount of teams that registered, then someone in the lowest tier would not be matched unfortunately. Typically, a bunch of these guilds are afk or not trying anyways. Regardless, #3 in the above process flow shows what would happen though in terms of 'fairness'. That guild that missed out due to uneven amount of teams registered would then get higher priority the next day in their new tier.
- 'Players Mercing' - Still allows this behavior should guilds want to allow this to happen. Just be warned that you might put your guild in a higher tier the next day(s) if taking on players that are higher than what your actual guild's playing ability is at. Something else needs to change if this is too much of a 'problem'.
- 'Point Dropping' - Still allows this behavior should guilds want to allow this to happen. Something else needs to change if this is too much of a general 'problem'.
- 'We keep getting matched with <y> team' - As noted in the variable section, depending on how many teams sign up and are included in a tier will influence this behavior. In addition, as part of #4 in the process flow above, there is another step that even tries to avoid having to face the same opponents multiple days in a row. I can't count the number of times I've heard people say in the past... "Why do we keep getting matched with these guys?".
- 'High point guilds facing low point guilds frequently' - As noted in the variable section, depending on how many teams sign up and are included in a tier will influence this behavior. Hopefully, this sort of process would match guilds of closer playing capability though (based on points). Battles are typically seen as not fun from both sides otherwise.


Any problems with this approach? Any further refinements? Highly doubt RoM management cares on suggestions like this, but I'm more interested what the community thinks on this approach. One can never satisfy everyone, but I believe this would make the majority of folks happy/happier than the current matching system.

@modrune - that seems pretty much how seige matchups were before this last terrible change. The obvious problem is that the #1 guild in a tier might be grossly stronger than the #6 guild. Another problem is that you end up fighting the same few guilds over and over and I think everyone gets tired of that after a while. The only real long-term solution to foster competitiveness and diversity of opponents is handicapped matches.

Quoted from "radeon"

@modrune - that seems pretty much how seige matchups were before this last terrible change. The obvious problem is that the #1 guild in a tier might be grossly stronger than the #6 guild. Another problem is that you end up fighting the same few guilds over and over and I think everyone gets tired of that after a while. The only real long-term solution to foster competitiveness and diversity of opponents is handicapped matches.

Unknown what 'logic' they were using before, but I defer to my s/w complaints section that addresses some fixes of even the previous version. Would it fix all situations and make everyone happy? Nope. Better than now and before? I'd say so.

The #1 (or #2) guilds for a particular registration hour will tend to be super OP. It may not matter if you are the 6th in point ranking or the 20th. Someone has to unfortunately face them. It makes more sense for those 6th in ranking to face them more as they would genearlly offer more resistance. The same goes for the other tiers.

Which tier a guild fits in can change each day based on the different variables involved. An example...
(day 1)
20 teams sign up for s/w. Your guild ('A') is 6th in point ranking this day and was matched up with guild ('B'), which was 1st in point ranking this day. Guild ('C') is 7th in point ranking (and was close to your points) and was matched up with guild ('D'), which was 8th in point ranking. After this s/w was over, guilds 'B' and 'C' won. Guild 'C' took over your guild in points now.

(day 2)
22 teams sign up for s/w. The same 20 teams of the prior day sign up, however, one higher point guild registered and one low guild also signed up. Your guild ('A') is not in the first tier this day and has the option of going against some team in the second tier.

Etc..

Hopefully they fixed it, but there seems to be an issue with the new matching system leaving multiple guilds unpaired, hence no siege. It would be understandable for an odd number of guilds signing up, say 15, that one of those will be without an opposing team, but three of them not matched is not helpful.

I recommend going back to the point system. True it was flawed, but that is because you will always have players working around the rules. But at least the old point system would match guilds, even if unfairly, so they would get some rewards.

Also I would recommend an option to yield the siege. This would still give the OP guilds the win rewards, the non OPs the minimum rewards, and more time to do instance runs or other activities.

unmatched guilds may be unaccepted declarations. Also late registrants tend to go unmatched.

Badly matched seiges tend to end in 15 minutes or less regardless. I've seen the higher powered guilds end matches in 5 minutes, when little to no resistance.

But that reminds me of something I thought of the other night. If GF wants to see how bad the new system really is then all they need to do is look at the seige results board 15 minutes in to see how how many are already resolved.

Quoted from "Auros"

I've seen the higher powered guilds end matches in 5 minutes, when little to no resistance.

Hmmm how is that possible without hacking? Even if you get herald and scrolls in less than 5 mins which is dubious without being able to kill opponents, you still have 2 gates and there are cooldowns for both tornado and scrolls.

Would be closer to 10 but really doesnt take long, one person farms mid, 1 takes towers, boom easy herald in less than 5 min, all the while a ram headed to front gate with some players to burn it down, once down herald nado+2 scrolls on inner, ez crystal cap and done.

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

Would be closer to 10 but really doesnt take long, one person farms mid, 1 takes towers, boom easy herald in less than 5 min, all the while a ram headed to front gate with some players to burn it down, once down herald nado+2 scrolls on inner, ez crystal cap and done.

hacker