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21

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 3:31am

Feedback & Suggestion

The issue is re-logging them into siege, swapping between five screen, if you can run that many, it's all a bit ridiculous imo. It should be made simpler.

Obviously people with the advantage won't like the idea and say anything to make it sound like a bad idea but I hope it's obvious to most that this is an awesome suggestion.


You shouldn't need to relog buff alts into siege. Buff alt clients should have their settings turned all the way down with their UI hidden as well to help minimize GPU/CPU strain. If all they do is sit in the castle, then there shouldn't be any special effects around to crash them.

It's not difficult to manage 5 clients for buffing. I run with 4 alts in siege and gain a total of 9 buffs from them. The video only shows 7 due to one of them being on CD and this was before I added the 9th. You'll see that as soon as I spawn on the roof, I pop Cloak's rebuff macro and land in front of my alts while Cloak is still buffing himself. While he is doing so, I tab over into my alt's windows and use their buffs. It takes only two seconds to go through all 4 of the alt windows and run their macros. You can see that each of the alts has a black box appear on their HP bar above their heads. This indicates them targeting me. It only takes 6 seconds for them all to target and buff me.



And here's my setup in siege:





Now, I still do like the idea but it would have to be done correctly. I would suggest that the buffs allowed be reviewed carefully as we don't want some OP buff stack to happen. It must be a buff that can be cast on others. I would say that if an npc existed to perform this action, limit the number of buffs to 1 or 2 tops. Any more and I could see this system being abused. Make the buffs cost like 100,000 or something like that and have them last 2 hours like the Varanas fountain buff. Also, make it so the buff cannot be removed upon death nor is it able to be purged. 2 buffs would be a stretch and with these guidelines in place, I'd only be comfortable with this npc granting ONE and only one buff. I don't mean the same buff for all, but you'll be presented with a list of buffs & you get one choice for that use. Also, limit this npc to 3 uses per day PER ACCOUNT. If you use the NPC again before the current NPC buffs has expired, the new one will overwrite the old. Lastly, these buffs should be lvl 75 capped imo unless it's a "cap at 50" buff.

Thoughts? A Penny for anyone's feedback?
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Rukifellth2792" (Jun 14th 2016, 3:39am) with the following reason: Added post title and Grammar fixes.


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22

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 4:17am

Quoting from Kokall
"I didn't say it was the game's fault! It's simply a suggestion to make things easier for everyone."

I remember before the 3 classes thing when getting from level 50 to 54 was a monstrous grind, and complained publicly through Swag's podcast that it had gotten too EASY to level with Xaviera, and the hyperfast questing through Redhills. I don't want it easier, I like having to work for it.

My vote is a big fat NO!!! Work it out. I was running three clients at a time when I was using an XP machine with only 2 gigs of ram and 512k vram. The power of your PC is no reason to dumb down the game. IF you don't have the scratch to build a gaming machine, make do.

My toons are not and probably never will be hyper-powered, super-geared beasts. The struggle is what I am here for.
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23

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 6:05am

As Grumpdaddy said, easy to level alts, easy to have a computer that runs 3 or 4 clients ( i run 12 clients on 1 computer as of now could run 16 on low settings)

People wants it all easy, here i know, sell a scroll in itemshop and let us have GOD MODE for our toons!!! people have always worked hard to level their toons/alt etc, why should it be different now?

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24

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 11:23am

I don't think having a buff NPC that gives people the healer HP buff is going to stop people from needing a healer or playing a priest. I don't think the people who choose to play a K/P would stop because one of their buffs can be obtained from an NPC. I don't think the people playing the combo that gives Awakening of the Wild will stop playing the combo because the buff can be obtained from an NPC.

Some combos are not popular and some are but I don't believe a single buff will change what people choose to play. People either choose what's popular or what they enjoy to play and I don't judge either one.

The fact is that it's not difficult to make alts and get these buffs already. It's just a real pain in the *SS in my opinion. Some may enjoy it, they feel it's part of the challenge, but in my opinion it's not a challenge it's just wasted time and resources. There's plenty of game challenges that are fun and that take skill and not just a second monitor and a good comp to beat.

In my opinion, people who think they will lose their advantages are more prone to respond to this thread. In my mind, there's no doubt that this buff NPC would be welcomed by a majority of players even if that's not reflected by the responses.

Maybe I'm biased but I simply don't see a real downside to this suggestion except maybe if people don't understand the suggestion and rush to judgement on how it will affect the game. I suppose it's possible people could ragequit not understanding that it's buffs we can all easily get with alts right now so the devs are just making this part of the game simpler for everyone.

Anyways, that's my opinion, everyone has one but I think over time, if people understand the suggestion, they would agree that all it does is make things that should be simple, simple. I'm not asking to remove mechanics from instances or reduce xp/tp requirements. I'm saying, why make me load alts and swap screens for nothing. I can go buy another computer and waste my time swapping and loading toons but why? It doesn't make sense to me.

On a side note, I just heard from a guild member who currently runs endgame content with another guild that half their 12 man group is ALL alt buffers. So how many people are being excluded from their runs because they feel they need the space for alts more than they do for guild mates who've chosen to play a less popular class combo? Now I'm not suggesting every endgame group and guild does the same thing. But it makes the point that having this buff NPC would actually free space for real players. Just one more benefit to add to the list imo.

Also, it could be a choice of skills you add to the NPC after doing some work equal to power-leveling an alt. I mean if people are serious and find power leveling a fun challenge they can make it that way, I'm sure. But it may just end up being harder to get then it was to power level. But even that I wouldn't mind as long as it's reasonable. Personally I find it strange that I need to run multiple instances of a game to compete in siege. It doesn't seem right. I'm playing one game. It shouldn't indirectly require multiple clients to be loaded if that can be prevented. On the other hand, I like being able to load a second toon for other reasons but that's more of a choice then a virtual necessity. Hope that makes sense. For example, I like having one alt at AH while I farm on another. But I just do that by choice not by a need to match other players power. Anyways, enough said, hope people understand and support the idea, I've gone on long enough. Thanks for listening.

This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "kokall" (Jun 14th 2016, 12:13pm)


25

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 3:26pm



On a side note, I just heard from a guild member who currently runs endgame content with another guild that half their 12 man group is ALL alt buffers. So how many people are being excluded from their runs because they feel they need the space for alts more than they do for guild mates who've chosen to play a less popular class combo? Now I'm not suggesting every endgame group and guild does the same thing. But it makes the point that having this buff NPC would actually free space for real players. Just one more benefit to add to the list imo.


I agree with you up to here. There's still gonna be a half a party of alt buffers because you still need the short term buffs those alts provide.

I support this suggestion. Anything to not have to run out every 10 minutes to get buffs. I don't know how that's "challenging" or "fun" to anyone. It takes next to zero work to make a level 50 buff alt. It's not a challenge it doesn't make the game more interesting it's just another damn grind you have to do to be competitive in this game.
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26

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 4:06pm

I am torn on this. I would much rather heal on D/WD or D/S because I heal much better on them than on D/W but, I always end up playing D/W because of AotW. If all the Physical DPS chars could go get AotW from an NPC in Varanas that would last the duration of the raid, that would allow me (and other players) to have more choice in what we play.

On the flipside of this argument is that no one would play D/W unless it was a W/S group. I would image this would be the same for lots of other class combos (relegating them to the ranks of D/M, W/P, Wd/M, etc).

I do like Cike's suggestion of making the NPC buffer decent but not maxed. Getting a level 80 AotW cast on you by the NPC still leaves a lot of value in getting a level 97 from a player. Althought I think the fact that we have to have buff alts in the first place is a game fail.

WRT P/R purging skills that people pay for in SW? I think that is HILARIOUS and would make P/R the GO TO healer for SW.
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27

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 5:44pm

I think if people choose to stop playing a combo because they no longer need the main buff from it then it wasn't a combo they really wanted to play but were in essence forced to play like the previous reply suggests.

Obviously this buff NPC would affect some people's choice of which combo they play but only when it was combo they didn't really want to play in the first place. Someone who loves a combo probably won't change because of one buff.

Could people feel pressure to play something else because of a secondary non buff skill, or short term skill, that's possible but like I said before I think people will either play what's popular or what they like to play.

Personally, I don't think every combo has to be used to call the game a success. And if only one buff is keeping people using a combo then it's probably a sign that the combo needs something else to make it a desired combo. I could be wrong. I myself don't want everyone playing one of three combos either. But if a few combos lose a few players it's not the end of the world and points the devs to a problem with the combo in my opinion. Again, I could be wrong, I don't know.

As for the the level of buffs, the option to reduce or cap the buff NPC's power is an option the devs should consider for sure, but I think that would defeat most of the purpose really. It might give me an acceptable alternative so I think it would be better than nothing, but I would much rather the buffs be equal to what an alt would provide. But that's just my opinion.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "kokall" (Jun 14th 2016, 5:57pm)


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28

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 6:22pm

If done correctly it could be an alright alternative. Problem is there are sooooo many different opinions on a suggestion like this. For example, which buffs should be included from the npc, what duration, how often a day can u get them, should they be maxed, how much should they cost, ect ect. My opinions were given with PvP buffers in mind, for example the main 3, w/p k/p and warlock. I never took PvE into consideration because you suggested this idea to replace the needs of alts, however the buffs that those alts provide in a run as Borella said are all short duration and would be MUCH to over powered if given at a long duration from an NPC.

So again no thank you from me. However the one way I can personally see it helping fairly is paying for lvl 50 versions of the 3 common siege buffs, k/p w/p wl for 2 hours through death. (Though as I said before even that doesn't help much if your guild works together to provide each other with those buffs.)
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29

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 7:37pm

I could be okay with this IFF ( if and only if ) you have to clear a HM-type instance to get to each buffer. You are allowed to buy 1 buff scroll per run costing 5k honor points. Someone maxed on honor to go through w/ a party 5 times to get 5 scrolls. Give the scrolls 3 day timeouts.. if you don't use them in 3 days, they go poof. Maybe have a 5% chance you get a 7 day scroll. When you purchase your scroll, you choose from a list of 8 random buffs that that particular npc has for that run.

Now people can buy buffs, but you really need real players to buff you when you don't have access to the buff scroll you need.

30

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 7:52pm

Now you're just over-complicating things...
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31

Tuesday, June 14th 2016, 8:29pm

Just to be clear I'm not talking about any short term buffs or skills. There may be exceptions, I don't know, but I trust the devs to use common sense.

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32

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 12:41am

...but I trust the devs to use common sense.
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33

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 1:39am

Gotta love Cike's personal attacks since we don't agree with his friend, but omg if i would have done it. You want NPC's for buff? no problem, Level 50 max buffs. But oh wait now he is not talking about short buffs, he wants hours/days/weeks buff?

Ycavan has some thing with his proposition, gotta run hardmode to be able to purchase them so not any lazy yahoo could get the best buffs player have worked or leveled for.

Hey Kokall how many hours a day do you play the game btw? really wondering, one hour a day? 5 hours a day?

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34

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 8:27am

I would love this for PvE. Then we don't need to run back for D/Wd, M/P and P/S buffs anymore.
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35

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 2:53pm

If you think that my propsal is over-complicated, then how about we break it down by max buff level on the skill scrolls?

level 10 buff scroll vendor when completing something like NoM
level 15 buff scroll vendors @ the end of HoTO, Hos, ZS, DL
level 20 buff scroll vendors @ the end of RT dia
level 25 buff scroll vendors @ the end of Sardo Castle
etc...

Buff scroll vendors always have 8 random buffs to choose from. You buy scrolls using Honor points.

I'm still opposed to something like this npc, but it seems other people think it's a good idea so I'm proposing something that makes it so regular schlubs still need to do something to earn the buffs. It takes effort to make the buffers guys... it should take some kind of effort to get buff scrolls. & something like this could also make people want to run lowbies through too.

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36

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 4:06pm

Ycavan your proposition makes a lot of sense as long as they make it hardmode runs and maybe people would have to run the instances instead of being pulled through.

I am also opposed to having an npc for buffs, just amazes me how people are so lazy even playing a game.

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37

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 6:09pm

how about... an NPC that takes current buff and extend their timers to 2hrs? so you log in ur buffers, get their buffs, go to the NPC and he turns those 15-30min buffs to 2hrs. so everyone gets what they want! hard work and extended time! yay! I'm a genius! :pump:

38

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 7:07pm

Purely from a PvE standpoint:

Currently the only buffers that I know of that are of any use that AREN'T ALREADY in an ENDGAME run are magic buffers: P/S, D/Wd, M/P
  • this can be solved with having teleport crystals in the instance to make running back easier. will make it overall for everyone and runs over faster. (if party wipes, someone crashes, need to rebuff, etc.) STILL have no idea why this was only for the 55 instances. :pillepalle: So now we have a fix to running instances more smoothly, able to get buffs efficiently without the need of this new NPC which you know Runewaker will break/bug/whatever else you can imagine.
  • All other alts in ENDGAME runs provide too strong of buffs to not be in the instance, and would be too OP to be extended.
  • If you have a problem running too many clients, you need to find a player to actually run those toons then. (or get a better computer, but thats just a financial problem and will just leave that out for now)

From a PvP standpoint:

This is where it does make sense. The advantages of having buffers through the siege is very strong. The people who cannot run multiple clients in already laggy environment is at a disadvantage. With the ever increasing stats from players, all these %buffers become stronger and stronger. OP players become more OP leaving the lesser gear players to the dust.

how about... an NPC that takes current buff and extend their timers to 2hrs? so you log in ur buffers, get their buffs, go to the NPC and he turns those 15-30min buffs to 2hrs. so everyone gets what they want! hard work and extended time! yay! I'm a genius!

What kind of limitations are we talking here? I mean people are only logging in the most important buffers. But now you can extend more buffs? So not just w/p, k/p, 6%, mage buffers. Now we add even more: d/r, d/m, nourish from d/w, that one w/p buff that increases HP that is normally a 3 min buff, p/r, p/m. I mean the list goes on. The people who have toons with these buffs become that much more OP than others. Are we going to limit people to just a certain number of buffs that you can get from the NPC.
Now you're just over-complicating things...
^ for this suggestion and my response LOL. sorry but thats just how my brain works :P
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39

Wednesday, June 15th 2016, 9:57pm

[quote='zidlef','index.php?page=Thread&postID=663591#post663591']Ycavan your proposition makes a lot of sense as long as they make it hardmode runs and maybe people would have to run the instances instead of being pulled through.[/quote] I just had a thought about these instances to get to buff vendors... make them all strat instances. No real mobs, but mobs that stun, slow, etc... while you have to unlock 5 rooms to get to the buff vendor. Make the mobs do 1% damage or something so any level can go, but everyone in the 6 person party must participate to unlock the room. Kinda like the 1st boss in ToSH or the Super Mario Bros action before the 5th boss boss in Beth. Instead of 1 person doing all the work, everyone has to make it across.

& also have some HM tank & spank instances for those that like to just kill things. But not make the strats stupidly difficult for someone. I think Madman, in DoD, is a good type of boss for that kind of instance. You learn his timing and avoid the X.

Anyway, like I said, it should require effort to get these buff scrolls.

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40

Thursday, June 16th 2016, 3:49am

<snip>

I personally don't think buff alts are a healthy part of the game, but by this point its pretty much a core part of how people play the game, and unless we get some serious overhauls to PvP as a whole (which will not happen), I don't think this will change. It just doesn't make sense for a computer that can run 3+ clients to be a requirement in any sort of competitive play, so I think these buffs should be freely available to balance the playing field, since buff alts are extremely unbalancing especially in PvP, as Shaynoff already pointed out.
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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "ruisen2000" (Jun 16th 2016, 4:03am)


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