Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;505276"

This sounds more like the so called "Endgamers" pissing and moaning about the diamond sellers dropping their prices, and us that actualy spend RL money for diamonds. I wills tate this and hope you who never actualy read a whole post will get the point: There is no such thing as a true "Endgamer". The onlyw ay one can be an endgamer is if the game they palyed in were finished. RoM is no where near to beign finished. So those of you that claim to be "Endgamers" can jsut go stick you overpriced items where the sun don't shine and get over it. Times are changing, we the true players refuse to pay for overpriced gear in the AH anymore. You want millions of gold for something that only cost you a bit of time out of your pathetic lives.

I'm not and endgamer by anyone's standards but Palenque's, and as we're 8 bosses behind everyone else... yah.

Ummm, Mega. Lemme tell you a long and boring story, and maybe this'll bring the issue home in a way you can relate to.

*People who experience nausea and vomiting from my long posts should take a dramamine and skip to the bottom, mkay?

Once upon a time there was a little guild called Notorious, and they were just a wee band of noobs who had no clue. They did Sathkur and the Windmill Basement, they gloried in NoM and Kalin Shrine. All the way to Hall of the Demon Lord. When they got to DL, they realized they couldn't do it alone. They had to buy gear from "endgamers" and that was hard. One person bought a t9 OD Sword of Fear for their tank and paid 12 small puri packs for it. 12. That's 1500 dias, 75mil at modern prices. She didn't complain about it though, she was just so happy that her tank would be able to progress. People in the guild contributed gold so that one person after another could get geared up, and they all worked hard to farm the gold for one another.

Eventually, they didn't have to buy gear for each other anymore. They went in to places like Kawak's Tomb, and Raksha Temple together, and while only a few could go in there, they brought back lots of gear for everyone. They spent thousands of dias and millions of gold on unbinders, so that they could get the gear their guildies needed. They also had to spend millions of gold and thousands of diamonds to upgrade all their old gear so they could get better and farm faster.

Chapter 4 finally came, and it was a new dawn for Notorious and for the world they played in. Suddenly all the classes had a purpose and a roll, and they decided to tackle the new instances. It took some time, and some cash, and many many dias, and umptybillions of gold, but they eventually conquered Sardo Castle. Then they decided to take on Grafu Castle Hard. Many guilds on other servers had already done so, but Palenque is a bit of a backwater, as we all know, but the brave Palenque hillbillies decided that they too had the gumption to take on Grafu.

They ripped through the first three bosses only to come to an abrupt halt on the fourth. Conjurer Chapeunoir seemed unkillable. They spent 3 days dying over and over in the company of their brave colleagues from a friendly sister guild, just trying to get the strategy mastered. Try and imagine the scene: a dark dungeon, in the middle of the night, and they've all been awake and dying for 10 hours straight. Tempers flared and many tears were shed. Finally, finally... on about the 37th try, the boss fell to the floor dead. There was much rejoicing.

They sped towards the fifth boss, certain that beautiful weapons would be theirs within mere minutes.

Larvanger Barkud had other plans. Actually, he had 8 herds of zombies, and a strategy so complicated that our merry band of brothers would spend a whopping 20 days perfecting the strategy. Their friendship with their sister guild shuddered and nearly broke, and they soldiered on alone in that cavernous banqueting hall. Imagine what 20 days of failure look and feel like. 12 people, all alone in the night, wiping and resetting, wiping and resetting, sometimes 15-20 times per night. To this day, they have no idea how the guild itself survived Larvanger Barkud. Weeks passed.

Consider, if you will, the sheer amount of consumables used in those weeks. The number of golden hammers, hero pots, food, regular repairs, pet food, transport runes, instrument materials. The amount that they spent in dias to upgrade the gear they were getting from the first few bosses, in the hopes of being just that much stronger. The amount of cash, dias and gold spent is incalculable. During this period, they also passed out excess gear to guildies, to make the whole guild stronger.

Also consider that because they all spent so very much of their time inside that nightmarish banquet hall, they had no time to farm stats or mementos or do minigames, dailies or events. They even skipped their favorite part of the day at times, Siege War. Many people even resorted to the expediency of trading dias to others for the stats they needed, because there was no way they could spend the time to farm themselves. In this way they enriched FtP friends.

Finally, at the very end of a long night, as the first streaks of dawn crept over the horizon, everything came together and they watched in awe as Barkud's last fetid breath slipped from his poisoned lungs, and he hit the floor with a resounding thud. 20 days of effort, hundreds of hours of work, and mass consumption of resources had enabled them to finally reach their goal.

Now only Herl Grafu was between them and their true enemy, Annelia. It turned out that Herl was full of sound and fury, signifying nothing, and he fell over with a feeble whimper.

Annelia- that 55mil hp she-demon, that guild-breaking masochistic monster, loomed in the distance. She beckons to them still, and even after a week of misery and heartbreaking death, she eludes our merry band to this very day. How many days, how many weeks will they fight her? Only the great gods of Taborea know for sure.

*Ok, tl:dr purple prose is over. If the dramamine kicked in, you can safely resume reading.

Quoted

So those of you that claim to be "Endgamers" can jsut go stick you overpriced items where the sun don't shine and get over it. Times are changing, we the true players refuse to pay for overpriced gear in the AH anymore. You want millions of gold for something that only cost you a bit of time out of your pathetic lives.

The next time you see a piece of gear you'd like to have in the AH, and you start to curse the people who spent the time, the money, the diamonds and the vast quantities of gold required to go and get that piece of gear from a boss you can't kill yourself... close the AH and just log out. If you don't like the price, farm it yourself. If my merry band of retards and social rejects can do it, so can you.

Believing that all that gear cost was "a bit of time from our pathetic lives" is a statement of such profound ignorance of the reality of instance progression that it beggars belief.

That is all.

Inb4someonecallsthepast10peoplewhopostedfanboisfordisagreeingwiththem.

For a few months, I thought I was a lone when it came to running end-game. Most of the people who post here, don't completely understand how painful it is to achieve it.

It costs a fortune to reach and maintain it. Some of you act like it's a simple fix to end all the problems on the server but realistically the main problem is the people who don't understand why items cost so much. On Grimdal, there are groups of people who do not understand why stuff cost so much (or so little) and it's people like that are pushing the Economy towards the ground.

End-game costs money, when anything goes up in price, the price of gear has to go up to compensate for the losses and to ensure you can continue to do so.

jesus fandrieth...you must be related to charles dickens...just as wordy and just as good at sedating stupid mages ><

j/k ;p

yea ppl dont realize how much you spend trying to not be a floor tile in the new content as you learn it. plus most dont get that the majority of endgamers are free-2-play, least in my experience; everyone always assumes pay to win is dogma.

.........

Quoted from "Deltaninethc;505260"

Unfortunately, the vast majority of the active people on the forum are mediocre F2P people. It never ceases to amaze me how much the devs listen to their misinformed opinions. Think of all the drastic nerfs that have come from ridiculous complaints on the forums. Nerfs originate here but very few endgame players are active posters. Every time they listen to the cries for nerfs, it runs more endgame people off that have spent hundreds, if not thousands, on their toons. Before listening to the advice of any of them, they really should be checking to see if they have even managed to get to max level or run endgame instances.

I would bet that more than 50% of siege and sundry other nerfs over the past two years have originated with people that have never owned a t10 or higher weapon.

This. Most of the crying and the whining and the awful suggestions that happen on these forums come from people with less than 50K Hp unbuffed. And these are the suggestions that are getting forwarded on to Runewaker, suggestions from people with no clue how the endgame instances work. I have to admit it's quite hilarious to be reading the forums and seeing a post that sounds like they think they know all about the game, and everything to do with endgame, then you see them ingame and they have 30K hp.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;505276"

This sounds more like the so called "Endgamers" pissing and moaning about the diamond sellers dropping their prices, and us that actualy spend RL money for diamonds. I wills tate this and hope you who never actualy read a whole post will get the point: There is no such thing as a true "Endgamer". The onlyw ay one can be an endgamer is if the game they palyed in were finished. RoM is no where near to beign finished. So those of you that claim to be "Endgamers" can jsut go stick you overpriced items where the sun don't shine and get over it. Times are changing, we the true players refuse to pay for overpriced gear in the AH anymore. You want millions of gold for something that only cost you a bit of time out of your pathetic lives.

Our pathetic lives huh? You who are sitting here on the forums yelling about how we overprice things and you aren't geared enough to get them. If you think something is too expensive, don't buy it. Go get it yourself like we all did.

A little bit of time... really. May I bring up my first time in GCH lastboss, Annelia. We wiped for SIX HOURS. SIX, REPEATEDLY, and didn't manage to bring it down. So next time you call us pathetic, or that we overprice things, you go die for 6 hours straight in an instance and then have nothing you want even drop. Then you can complain that prices are too high.

TL;DR?

Don't whine about the price of endgame, because if you don't like it, go get the gear yourself.


@Fandreith

You are amazing. I read that entire post, couldn't have put it any better. I thank you.

Quoted from "Borella;505386"

This. Most of the crying and the whining and the awful suggestions that happen on these forums come from people with less than 50K Hp unbuffed. And these are the suggestions that are getting forwarded on to Runewaker, suggestions from people with no clue how the endgame instances work. I have to admit it's quite hilarious to be reading the forums and seeing a post that sounds like they think they know all about the game, and everything to do with endgame, then you see them ingame and they have 30K hp.

I so agree with this statement lmao , sad but true.

From my personal experience ,we whiped over and over and over at 5th gch just to figure it out and people except the cheap quick sales of loots when in return they sell us diamonds for the imba 100k per.
As for ToSH hm we will whipe , and whipe and whipe over over to get it down sometime but then the server expect us to sell it for cheap. Even then sometimes lol , my guild get blamed for slowing down the WHOLE server progression because of selling the gear to high , or just not selling it at all. Im sorry but we all went the hard way farming up and getting better , in no way you should be able to get to endgame with putting close to 0 effort doing so.

Edit : my grammar blows :/

Quoted from "kossploss;505390"

I so agree with this statement lmao , sad but true.

From my personal experience ,we whiped over and over and over at 5th gch just to figure it out and people except the cheap quick sales of loots when in return they sell us diamonds for the imba 100k per.
As for ToSH hm we will whipe , and whipe and whipe over over to get it down sometime but then the server expect us to sell it for cheap. Even then sometimes lol , my guild get blamed for slowing down the WHOLE server progression because of selling the gear to high , or just not selling it at all. Im sorry but we all went the hard way farming up and getting better , in no way you should be able to get to endgame with putting close to 0 effort doing so.

Edit : my grammar blows :/

Yep.. they all expect stuff to be super cheap, while we wipe over and over and over again on one boss for a 72 dura drop. Uhm, no? Especially not if you're still going to rape us on diamonds. Even at current diamond prices on Reni of 35-40K per, it takes over 100M just to t10 a weapon.

If you want to blame someone, blame Frogster for making this game take so many diamonds.

Quoted from "Borella;505403"

Yep.. they all expect stuff to be super cheap, while we wipe over and over and over again on one boss for a 72 dura drop. Uhm, no? Especially not if you're still going to rape us on diamonds. Even at current diamond prices on Reni of 35-40K per, it takes over 100M just to t10 a weapon.

If you want to blame someone, blame Frogster for making this game take so many diamonds.

I cant say it any better

Quoted from "Ravesden;505156"

There are a lot of people blaming end gamers for this, end gamers for that. But think about it, what does one do to become end game? They spend money. Without them, *this game would not exist*. Frogster is a business, they let you try out their business, but in order to progress after a certain point, you have to give them money. Yes, money. That's what pays for the game to exist. Your QQing doesn't.

I see a lot of people on here saying OP this, OP that, nerf everyone whose better, etc. There are many of you who seem to not be mature enough to accept thw fact that maybe, just maybe, that person who 1 shot you spent more money on the game/has better gear. Its always "I always get killed, so nerf them." Honestly, if that's your thought process, I want YOU nerfed.

Next is the tergothen events. I've seen a lot of people complaining about how those are unfair, the elite always win. Lets be honest, they set up transport points to the best returns, and using their fast mounts, beat those who *gasp* do not spend as much, or spend anything at all. Ever heard of spending money to make money? Well, this is a perfect example. Don't expect to win unless you put in as much as that other guy does into this game. It is truly pay to win, yes, but that's how Frogster makes a profit. Its how they keep the game running (granted, very broken at times). Its about the money. No money, no benefits.

I wasn't always "end game." Ive been playing since chapter 2 and never hit the level cap until chapter 4. I know what its like to not have those benefits. But guess what? I spent money on the game, and now Im one of the top druids on Reni. The key here, is money. If you dont spend it, expect the game to give you as much as you put in.

tl;dr Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I was reading this thread and as I progressed through the pages it seemed to derail here and there, so I'm just going to reply to the OP and hopefully that will help keep things on topic...

In so far as blaming one branch of the community or another, well guess what we're all part of the SAME community (albeit across many servers). You can look to your neighbors and point fingers, but you might as well point your finger back at yourself when you're done. A lot of us probably don't have the luxury of saying "Well I've never done anything to hurt anything or anyone or the economy in this game, ever." Even if there is someone that can say that, I ask you this: "Even if you didn't contribute, did you do anything to resolve it? Did you do anything to help?" Probably even less people there, if at all... Assuming this first point was probably referencing the economy (judging by later posts), we're all equally to blame because we all participate in the economy (unless you can say you've never bought, sold, or traded anything).

All (or most) f2p games can function because people are willing to buy items from the cash shop, which is what keeps the game running. I think this is just common fact... Although some cash shops have less "necessity" items than others...those games which can be considered more f2p-friendly, so to speak.

To be honest I can't really think of a single point in time where this game had balance. In *some* cases, those who shout "OP!" are warranted. Does being OP warrant a nerf? No, it warrants a balance. Does Runewaker know how to balance? I don't think they do, but then again the whole class structure doesn't lend itself well to begin with... If it was simply a matter of "they spent more money" then fine. But rarely is that the case when there's already some overpowered advantage to be had from the start (case in point: which would you take to RT in Chapter 3? Scout or Warden?). I think Chapter 4 was a great start TOWARDS balancing, but it's still got a ways to go. If we were at a point where we could say "That guy beat me because all he had over me was the money put into his character" then that would be a pretty nice place to be.

It's pay to win, but you don't have to pay with your own personal funds. I know a ton of endgamers that say they're f2p because they haven't spent any of THEIR money. But of course, someone somewhere DID spend. Those endgamers simply bought from diamond sellers (that's where Frogster is getting the money) using in-game gold (free for the endgamer) or trading gear/stats (on which they can break even or profit, which makes it seem "free"). In fact I know a lot of endgamers who say they wouldn't spend a dime of their own money just because of the way the cash shop is and how much money it would cost overall...they are very content having someone else do it for them. On top of that they can afford it because they have the resources (gear, stats, and gold). If you're in that top group of gamers and you're f2p you can manage very well, compared to someone just starting the game who is f2p and has no resources (no valuable gear, stats, or gold).

So I guess people would want to know if I'm agreeing with the OP... well, yes and no. Kinda sorta maybe. The semantics I can argue, but the overall idea that this game is pay to win, you can't dispute. Of course it's pay to win. Almost every f2p game I know of is, that's how the company can make money. Whether or not endgamers are at fault for anything going wrong with the game...well whatever... about as much as everyone else is. Doesn't really matter if you've helped fund Frogster or not. And honestly I haven't seen those funds go towards improving the game lately soooo.... >_<;

Point is.. this game is free to play. You can log on, you can play the game, you can even get to endgame for free if you're willing to put a ton of time and effort into it. Sure, once you're an endgamer it's much EASIER. I haven't bought diamonds in months, yet i'm doing just fine.

Free - to - Play, Pay to Speed Up is the way i view this game as a whole.

Quoted from "xerosleep;505375"

I actually read all that.

First don't get me wrong. There are some very nice people in the game. And some that really help others out from the kindness of their heart. And others that are totally in it just for the fun.

And that makes sense for the first few times. But eventually a lot of those runs are an everyday occurrence and doesn't cost barely anything anymore since they already have all the gear to survive it.

With that being said the problem becomes that there are a lot of very very greedy people who control a lot of prices and exploit others as much as they can. And once they sell one of those for a hundred million then they think it's not worth it for them to bother selling anything else for less. And they have an insatiable appetite for money. Some have billions and billions. BILLIONS! It's like a disease for them. They have to have more and more. Then you get this top few people who have it all and control it all. And yeah some of them help their guild out but just so the guild can help them in the long run (because they can't get it alone).

It really makes me sick when I see the incredible greed in this game for some. Super super competitive. Super greedy. No real natural affection for people. We are just sheep to be slaughtered to them for their own gain.

Now I can handle it in the game. It's just a game. I find a nice group and stay away from bad ones. I guess the part that bothers me most is that these people are probably the same way in real life. They are, or border on being sociopaths (just talking with some of them in game and it's very apparent how loveless they are). Reminds me of the very same people who run corporate America. They would grind us up and sell us for fishfood if it would make them a dollar and was legal.

And for the record I've sold many things and was able to always sell it for way less then those ones who try to control the market. I've actually single handedly dropped the market in half on some Items. I still make a great profit too. I couldn't figure out why they were selling so high when it cost me so little to make or get. So I passed on my deals to others. Although at times I've noticed that when I do those same ones may attempt to buy up my items so they can keep selling theirs for more and keep the mark up super high.

Anyway. So I don't think it's unjustified for others just trying to play and have fun to feel exploited. It does happen......a lot

Yes, people who manage to live through the misery and vast expense of breaking what for whichever their server or the game is new content can and do become billionaires in the farming phase, and smart ones can leverage that to permanent ftp status. However, as Ravesden and some of the other people here have mentioned, it can also happen that they blow through those gold reserves pretty quickly in the next phase of instance progression, and end up pay to play again.

For many many of us, it's a cycle: blow through megabucks during progression, recoup while farming, blow through gold reserves gearing in the next instance, hit bottom, more megabucks, more farming, more recouping; lather, rinse, repeat.

All of this probably varies server to server. Obviously, servers like Govinda and Reni and Artemis have a notable advantage, as they are more progressed than the rest of us. Osha and Palenque and to a huge degree, Indigo and Grimdal, lag behind a bit, and so those players have less chance to farm and recoup. Less time to farm between progression periods means less time to farm, and less gold available. More dias are needed to make that progress.

I have had a birds-eye view of this process. Some of my progression team has always been free to play, and some of us are among the biggest dia buyers on the server. We were the first to break RT dia back in Chap3 on our server (waaay behind the other servers, we were even behind the PvP servers at that time, I believe) and so I got to witness that process first hand. The fact that many of Palenque's best players were from countries that at that time had no access to dias complicated the issue even further.

My point, underneath all my Dicken's like prose, is this: if my group of rejects can do this from scratch, through a combination of pay-to-win and free-to-play; if we, on our underpopulated and backwater server, can manage to attain a decent rate of instance progression- what excuse do others have to complain about gear cartels? Getting a group together and gearing them for GCH and ToSH on your own, without purchasing gear from the "evil endgamers" is possible.

Mega more or less said that he was a "real player" and that the people who sell gear can kiss his patootie.

That's fine of course, the game has mitigating things like the shell and mem gear in place to make that possible.

But complaining about gear prices and meanie old endgamers is a bit... silly? Don't like endgame cartel pricing? Don't buy the gear. Use the shell/mem gear, get your stats from minigames/TB events, spend your dias improving yourself, and learn the strats and do the instances to get the gear yourself. At that point you could break the gear cartels if you so chose.

Of course, once you make the massive time and money investment, you might suddenly feel differently, which is pretty much my whole point.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;505425"

Yet Another amazing post by Fandreith inserted here

+1 all of it. All of it.

your not endgame if you buy diamonds. that means you dont get items others cant and sell them for gold and then buy dias with gold. period, plain and simple.

Server Merger thats all folks see ya soon : )

Quoted from "edmb1;505438"

Server Merger thats all folks see ya soon : )

No thanks. o.o Artemis would completely own every other server cause they're the best geared server from what i've seen.

Not to go offtopic, but at the point I see people complaining and going on about greed by 'endgamers', I feel like telling them to hit up #OccupyVaranas or I decide to plan a trip to Newfoundland to do some punching baby seals in the face.

Back to your regularily scheduled RoM Rant Programming.

i do not blame all endgamers for everything, just some that are inflating gear prices when they already have a huge fortune saved up.im not saying they should give these items away just maybe be a little more resonable. and yes i have spent alot on this game.(lots before i even knew what i was doing). some of the gear prices seem a little too close to spammer prices

Man, I think I have finally reached "cranky old endgamer" status, which is ironic, because apparently no one on Palenque even qualifies as an endgamer.

I agree 100% with every word in Ravesden's last post.

Am I tired of being asked by people with 12k hp for Puppet Queens? Yes. Am I tired of people complaining that 100mil for a Juggler's knife is too much? Yes. Am I tired of paying 50k per dia? Yes. Am I tired of having to pay 30mil for a Glorious stat? Yes. I pay 30mil for an Int/Ma Glorious stat, but I am supposed to be ashamed of asking for 12mil for the piece of gear to put it on? Yes. Am I tired of yet another thread about the evils of teh Ice Blade? Or the Rogues (who supposedly are all cheaters and meanies :mad? Or the Scouts? Or the Warriors? Or whatever class "one hit me zomg nerf them RIGHT NAO!!1!" (which by the way, is just about all of them, even the druids)? Yes.

Really?

Yes.

Ok, so. I think we came to some good conclusions in this thread. Endgamers aren't always greedy sonsab!tches. We're people too, just like FtP players, and casual players, and weekend warriors and PvPers and whatever else RoM has to offer. Some of us surely are greedy sonsab!tches, just like every other demographic has their share of Greedy McGreedersons. But- and this is the key thing I think we've really nailed down: at the end of the day, if you don't like the price of the gear, you can always go farm it yourself. Conversely, if you don't like the prices of the dias, you can always go buy them yourself- and I think it's quite interesting that almost no one brought up that very point.

All to often, we look at prices and don't stop and think what the real cost is. There's a reason that Glorious stat is 30mil- every mage on the server wants 10 of them. There's a reason that dagger is 100mil- it took 10bil collectively to get to the point where the peeps that farmed it could get it.

There's also a good reason why that 120k mage with the t12 Shackles hit me for 120k with a Fireball.

This is a pay-to-win game. We just have to accept that. We can and should complain when things get ridiculous- I think FI needs to start realizing how ridiculously high costs have become. That said, we all need to start facing the facts that Rave put down so succinctly in this thread. If you choose not to pay to win, don't belittle those who do.

If we all took a deep breath and stopped being so very angry at each other for a minute, we might start to see why the other feels the way they do, and we might even learn something. We might find that we need the other person. FtP people need the dia buyers. They need the endgamers. They need things we can go and get them- if they choose not to go the shell/mem route.

The dia sellers need the endgamers. They need the FtPers, they need a market to sell to. It's a cycle, and if the cycle breaks down, we all suffer. Remember the terrible inflation we saw after chap 4? We still have it, though it has improved.

We all play these roles, and it is up to us to see the others as enemies or as friends. I personally prefer to see them as friends, and as such I try and help them out when I can. I hope that they will do the same for me.

Whether you are an endgamer, a FtPer, a dia seller, or just a casual quester- we all have a place in the RoM economy, and the more of us that recognize that and embrace it, the better off our economy will be. Of course, it would also help quite a bit if FI would recognize their own place in the economy, but that's a whole nother post.

The best rogue on govinda and another super geared scout both put a decent amount of real money into the game
both run tosh
if you enjoy the game and have money to blow to get super geared why not
lol
doesnt make you any less op or make your dps worse if you spend money on the game