Runes of Magic US / AU

i proudly present the reason to get super geared to those who dont know:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9382/goofysmirkdave.jpg
(not my pic, not my typo, lol)

And yes, thats sarcastic simplified but holds truth. Why would you equip better than needed? Because of rankings,competition,etc.

You could also just call it a short version of Ravesdens great post

Quoted from "mrmisterwaa;505305"

Inb4someonecallsthepast10peoplewhopostedfanboisfordisagreeingwiththem.

For a few months, I thought I was a lone when it came to running end-game. Most of the people who post here, don't completely understand how painful it is to achieve it.

It costs a fortune to reach and maintain it. Some of you act like it's a simple fix to end all the problems on the server but realistically the main problem is the people who don't understand why items cost so much. On Grimdal, there are groups of people who do not understand why stuff cost so much (or so little) and it's people like that are pushing the Economy towards the ground.

End-game costs money, when anything goes up in price, the price of gear has to go up to compensate for the losses and to ensure you can continue to do so.

Sorry, I'm missing your point. I believe you told more then once that you are F2P, always been. So how does end game cost money in your example?

I'm nowhere close to any end-game, still having fun and learning about game, so insides like this help me realize if the game is really worth any (more) money.

Quoted from "Ravesden;505529"

If something overpriced, farm the damn thing. That person who has it on the AH did. Why can't you?

This is what I've always said, and exactly what I've always done.

On a related topic, I'm surprised how few people take advantage of the opportunities they are given. I offer a piece of gear 'free, your ABL' because I know you really need it, but you do nothing? Seriously? Man, I wish people offered the next step of gear I need for just an ABL! I'm always broke, but I would seal that deal in a heartbeat.

I'm also surprised how few people are thankful when you do help them. Perhaps the increasingly socialist government in this country is to blame, but people actually think they are owed something. I go out of my way to express appreciation when people help me (one of the reasons I'm always broke), and it comes back 100x over. Friends are better than gold or gear.

Quoted from "RoMage;505647"

Sorry, I'm missing your point. I believe you told more then once that you are F2P, always been. So how does end game cost money in your example?

I'm nowhere close to any end-game, still having fun and learning about game, so insides like this help me realize if the game is really worth any (more) money.

I believe Mr Sekrit is not referring to just dollars. It costs lots of gold to run instances too. You need supplies and a lot of them. Pet food, many potions, many hammers, lots of food, both made (HK, cooking) and bought from memento vendors. You need both long term buffs and short term.

And your gear has to be great too, which means you need to spend gold on best stats, on jewels, runes, drillers, etc. It might be dollars, it might be gold, but either way you spend a lot.

Even then, you will wipe out, many many times, losing most of your enhancements every time and having to redo them. Top of the line gear cost a lot because it cost a lot to obtain. Always has.

Quoted from "vfwiffo;505652"

I believe Mr Sekrit is not referring to just dollars. It costs lots of gold to run instances too. You need supplies and a lot of them. Pet food, many potions, many hammers, lots of food, both made (HK, cooking) and bought from memento vendors. You need both long term buffs and short term.

And your gear has to be great too, which means you need to spend gold on best stats, on jewels, runes, drillers, etc. It might be dollars, it might be gold, but either way you spend a lot.

Even then, you will wipe out, many many times, losing most of your enhancements every time and having to redo them. Top of the line gear cost a lot because it cost a lot to obtain. Always has.

^This.

Since the day I realised that if I wanted to help my server get better, I started making everything on my own.

I made my own cook, my own alchemist, my own blacksmith, own refiners and my own alt-guild to store all these resources.

Even after that, I still had to pay a fortune on diamonds to make sure I had the hammers to get that 5% extra DPS to make sure I am not gimping myself or my party when I am in a run.

On top of everything else, I have to sell all the gear I get, I also have to farm dailies, stats and constantly spam World to find Diamond Sellers to buy more Megaphones to find more sellers. Then from that, I will still wipe because someone in my party is not doing everything humanly possible to be end-game.

Still, your post is misleading, as DIAS that you're spending are brought by someone else.

Kudos for creating your own little empire, glad you could do it and had the time to do it. I know it takes a while, as I am in process of leveling my alts and giving them responsibilities (for now just material gathering alts) because whole system with skills is mess IMHO.

Again, do those people who pay for DIAS really get worth for their RL money vs. all the time you have spent creating your own guild.... not so sure.

I'm glad system is working for you, and everything will be OK as long as there are DIAS seller...

And this topic was response to another topic about population getting smaller... it makes me worry a bit...

I disagree with everything Ravesden has said in this thread, just cause I can. :p

Oh I remember taking Raves into SC as a totally under geared d/s. He had maybe 80k HP fully buffed and had recently joined Ragnarok. He rocked it and then rocked gull GCH runs with the same gear. A big reason why he was able to reach end game is because of his skill as a healer. Not because he spends or doesn't spend diamonds on this game, and not because he was dragged through in any way. Not that dragging people is at all a bad thing. When you grab someone and "drag" them through GCH/SC you don't look for great dps or heals but you look for them to improve as they continue to run and ask questions and die with you and not complain!!!!

At one point I was dragged through to get gear and stats, and at some point we probably all are. As an end game player one of the responsibility I have as I see it, it to help gear others, to help improve the guild, not to exclude and ridicule people. I may get mad and I may yell in vent but end game isn't for the faint of heart.

My guild is in the process of doing this and with the help of Raves and Nekei our noob D/S is becoming a pro healer. End game is not for everyone. Just because you are not end game does mean you should have disdain for those who are and this goes the other way as well.

Quoted from "Quaffy2;505198"

Tried that, but Aces were too OP. They always got to be placed down first whenever they showed up. Meanwhile, they did a massive nerf to my Kings (who should be way more powerful, I mean come on, they are KINGS). But yeah, they can't be placed wherever they want, it has to be an open slot, or you have to wait for Ace->Queen to be placed down first before the King can even reach endgame.

The cards are not balanced at all, I'll see how the next solitaire patch goes though...hopefully those OP Ace-bladers get nerfed

Thousand LOLs to you ;-)

I seem to have thrown this thread into a massive derail. I apologize... this was not my intention.

I've read all the posts, and I agree with both sides of the argument. Endgamers are indeed the ones who discover strategies for beating new content, while spending a fortune on consumables and lots of deaths. They are entitled to put their drops for however much they want in order to recoup their losses. I'm not arguing whether this is good or bad... it is what it is. My issue was with the statement that endgamers were the ones who were supporting the game with their real money. However, many have claimed that they still do buy diamonds even after reaching endgame; therefore I take back my earlier statement and apologize once again.

I still do have a issue that endgamers are the ones who support the game. Though that may be true in part, I still believe that the bulk of support comes from people who have not yet reached endgame, those who are still gearing up. Now I don't know the exact number of diamonds each side buys, but those who are still gearing up must buy not only enough diamonds to sell, but also more diamonds to upgrade the equipment they do buy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen an endgamer use a world shout to advertise selling diamonds... they are always seeking to buy. Conversely, those who do sell diamonds are almost always still gearing up.

You may have indeed sold diamonds before you reached endgame, but now that you are there do you still buy the same amount of diamonds and continue to sell them? Btw, if you are complaining about diamond sellers' prices being overly high, I seriously doubt you are continuing to support the game with your own money. The fact remains that it's easier (cost-wise) to stay at the top than it is to get there.




Btw great story Fandrieth. Tales like that is why I play RoM.

Quoted from "Purre;505707"

The fact remains that it's easier (cost-wise) to stay at the top than it is to get there.

If I understand you correctly, this sentence pretty much sums up your whole post. I would have agreed with you a while back, but not so much anymore.

In some ways it is easier to stay ahead than to catch up. Once endgame, you can sell gear for a lot. Even though your costs are high, at least the cash is flowing. Newer players trying to gear up however, do not want to gear to the teeth in ZS/DL-WA gear to be able to run RT. They don't want to fully gear up in RT or KT gear either, since that too is nearing obsolescence at current endgame. Some people advocate "going through the same instance progression we did", but that is rather out of touch, and far behind the times. The population and market have changed enormously. Gearing is costly, and no newcomer wants to regear 3-4 times before they ever even see endgame.

There IS a solution however, that is not overly expensive: shell gear. I know players who were running GCHM in shell gear when there were only 4 pieces. Now there is almost a full suit, and it is relatively easy to obtain. It is now possible for a new player to bypass all instances from FA to KT, and start right in on GC+. That has never been true before, AFAIK.

So while it may be more difficult to reach endgame than to stay there, it is easier to reach endgame than it has ever been, and certainly easier than it was when many old-time endgamers got there. Proof is all around you; players who played for years without even reaching level cap are now capped, geared, and running endgame--all in a few months. They spent a lot of time and/or money, but most importantly, they had the smarts and skills to get where they are. I know some players who are endgame geared, but don't really get into endgame parties. I know other players who only meet bare minimum requirements, yet get called back time and time again.

So, if endgame is your goal, and your budget is tight, I have two suggestions: 1) Do your dailies and minis, and spend most of your extra time mento farming; 2) Learn your skills. Study them--all of them. Learn your ohcrap! buttons, your procs, your CDs, your rotation, your buffs, etc. Imagine a situation in which each skill would be useful. Then think about--and always keep in mind--what your party wants from you, and make sure you're doing everything in your power to give it to them. If you deliver, you'll be called again.

Quoted from "Borella;505449"

No thanks. o.o Artemis would completely own every other server cause they're the best geared server from what i've seen.

Having the best gear means nothing. I seen a rogue using a T9 GCH dagger outdps a rogue using a T10 one. My main reason for saying server merger is because it will enable more runs to occur. For example ToSH(H) can be a long instance especially if you mess up. You have players from different time zones and schedules in your guild. If a merger occur it will enable the potential of more runs for different time zones. Not just ToSH but for other instances too and allow more progression for all players.

True a server merge would really help , but doubt it gonna happend and i just cant imagine the mess they are gonna cause if they ever attempt to do it =)

@Purre
Yes, you very very rarely, maybe never, see an endgamer shout that they're selling dias. That doesn't mean they aren't though. If you look, you may see people offering to trade dias for stats, for mementos and for OD mem pull gear. One of my tanks statted himself and his OD mem accessory set with dias, and he did this because while he could theoretically farm all of it himself, he simply did not have time. Also, we sell dias to each other a lot. Remember that a lot of progression teams are mixed pay to play, free to play, and you'll see that we have a market of 12 people right at hand. You think anyone could buy enough dias to need to sell any outside of that voracious 12 man circle? Not possible.

Also, and this is key- I started selling dias when I was a lowbee. I can't afford to now. I need every single dia I buy for my own gear, and I try and help out my guildies when they need little stuff, and I do trade a few for stats also. You won't ever catch me selling a dia. I buy as many as my sad small gold balance will allow, and it's never enough.

@ the thread in general
Everything that can be said, has been said, I think. Some people will always hate those who do better, no matter how silly that is. For those of you with more open minds, like Purre, badass endgamers are an inspiration, and will push you to better yourself and others along the way. You can do it Purre, and I think you will. People like Brogue and Raves are an inspiration to me, because I am far from badassery myself, and I strive to be more like my own idols.

When we stop hating the people who one hit us in siege, and start screenshotting their gear, and then use that as an impetus to push us farther and better, and pm and constantly bug the ones we really hated the most (*cough* Pazzuzu *cough*), we stop seeing them as the faceless enemy and get to know them as dear friends and allies. The truth is, most of those supposedly evil endgamers are actually rooting for all of you- we want to see you learn and grow and get better than we are!

This is offtopic a tiny bit, but let me tell you a tiny story. Really, a teeny weeny one. No dramamine required.

Noto started out very small, and we sieged in the 500-1500 bracket for a long time. This is the bracket most of you guys are in, and we were there a long time. We saw guilds that called us hackers all the time, and we called a lot of people hackers. We were noobies, and didn't know other people's skills, and we didn't know a hack from a bug. Everyone seemed more OP than we were, and it was so hard.

When we started to grow up a little, as players and as a guild, and we moved from the 1500 bracket to the 3000 bracket, it was a whole different world. We had learned the difference between a hack and a bug, and while we did of course actually see some real hacks at times, it was really rare. When we started inhabiting the 3k bracket for real, something really interesting happened. People from the opposition started getting on to Palenque just to whisper me about our sieges.

No, really. This happened again and again and again- people from a bunch of different guilds. Not to rant at me, not to accuse us of cheating- these people just wanted to say hi. To say "Great game, we love you guys, siege is so much fun!" and to talk about gear and skills and instance progression and stuff. To chat.

I couldn't believe it at first. Really, aren't we supposed to hate each other and be suspicious and all that? But, these people weren't like that at all. I mean, I play a p/s in siege, and people are supposed to hate our guts! Instead, they wanted to say how much fun it was being 2 or 3 hit by me, and how much they enjoyed being zerged by my 50 player strong Mongol horde o.O

This still happens to me, and I've started doing it myself. I can't tell you the difference this has made to how much my guild enjoys siege. We're at 7k points at the moment, and the process continues. There's a level of affection and respect between these top guilds that I never in my wildest dreams expected.

Why is this so at the top and not at the bottom? I think it's because these people are experienced, and most of those guilds have a high population of the so-hated endgamers. Call it honor among thieves if you must, but these people are good, kind and respectful, and they have always treated Noto with kindness and respect. If you take the glittery aggs off of your average endgamer, strip them down to essentials- underneath there is a real human being. These people are not universally good obviously, but in my experience a hell of a lot of them are. They are good at what they do, and they have worked very hard to get where they are. And if you give them half a chance, you might be surprised at just how humble and sweet they really are.

A few people have been complaining rather vociferously about how selfish, elitist and evil the endgame community is here in RoM. I beg to differ. If you give people a chance, instead of judging the book by the scary Locface cover, you too may come to love an endgamer or two. Under that steaming Locface mask is a single dad or a pimply teenager or a middle-aged housewife who's just as insecure and cuddly as you are.

I don't think people are differentiating end gamers who buy their gear and ones who earn it.

The first sentence really indicates which ones we are talking about...

Quoted

There are a lot of people blaming end gamers for this, end gamers for that. But think about it, what does one do to become end game? They spend money.

Not really, because then no one would have new gear. If you assume that everyone is buying their gear, then that mean you're also assuming that no one is earning it. This doesn't make sense because someone has to earn it, or else you wouldn't be able to buy it. Truth is, most end game players don't need to spend money to get their gear. Think of Demonlord and PPK from Artemis. The first 2 guilds on the US side to clear TOSH, but you can easily tell that very few if any sell diamonds at all considering the most world chatted thing on our server is them buying diamonds or adventure packs. Maybe this game is about money for most people to get to a certain point, but if you get to that point, either by money or hard work, you don't need to spend money anymore. And I reiterate, that if you do need to spend money, you're doing something wrong or you're not at that point yet.

Quoted from "Ravesden;505156"

They spend money. Without them, *this game would not exist*. Frogster is a business, they let you try out their business, but in order to progress after a certain point, you have to give them money. Yes, money. That's what pays for the game to exist. Your QQing doesn't.

I commented earlier and only briefly touched on this in passing...but after reading through recent posts, I have to say... this is kind of hilarious in a really sadistic way. Although no one has really got into it, the only big point coming across in this thread (to me, anyway) is that RoM could probably send all of us to the poorhouse. "Endgamers don't sell diamonds because they use them all" and "Endgamers buy from diamond sellers too" ... how much money are we talking about here? Rofl. And for what? Hundreds or thousands of dollars and your one and only benefit is to be "endgame" at an ever-changing cap? It's evident your money's not going towards bug fixes or siege war or stable servers or staff recruitment... probably the only benefit IS that the game is live.

Those who spend money, more power to you and I hope that you're enjoying the game, as you should. But it might also be a good idea to consider why RoM is sucking so much money out of you and where all this money is actually going. I wouldn't mind seeing some transparency from Frogster on that point >.>;

Anyway carry on... just felt like the big elephant in the room wanted some peanuts. /end slight derail

Quoted from "Ravesden;505797"

You're self-specifying who "we" are talking about, when in fact every single person who has replied here

Assuming every player who posted runs TOSH HM.

And Ill reiterate, if you have to buy diamonds and are running TOSH HM, then you are doing something wrong...