Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Ravesden;505156"

There are a lot of people blaming end gamers for this, end gamers for that. But think about it, what does one do to become end game? They spend money.

Not true. I know plenty of endgamers who haven't spent any cash at all yet they have T7 or T8 gear with a T11 or T12 weapon...

This has to be the funniest thread I have read in forever, so many people getting so butthurt over what?. This thread accomplished absolutely nothing haha.

Quoted from "Ravesden;505809"

Lol, so even after people have said that they still buy dias at end game, you stubbornly stick with your misconstrued statement. That's fine, to each his own, no point in getting into an argument with someone who gives no credit to evidence (evidence being the many who have already posted.)

I've pugged TOSH HM bosses, I tank RT+ on my mage, and I die too many times in this game trying to solo content I shouldn't. According to my Zeevex account, it says I've spent a little over $100 on this game, which I'd say $80 of it was gifts for holidays, but that isn't what is important. Considering I've played well over a year and half right now, that's about $5.55 a month at a year and a half. I'm sitting with a T10+16 Shackles Staff, T7+16 Jenny's Robe, and much more gear that other servers haven't even got to drop yet. I've never sold a diamonds to anyone, but yet I can get more than in any given day to suffice my needs of gold to buy the diamonds I need to get through the next week and still have those 6 days of the rest of the week to blow it all. And in that day, here is the kicker, I do not participate in any runs to get that money. Maybe I just manage my money or manage my time better than everyone who seemingly runs TOSH HM on this thread despite servers just now posting that they've done it, but maybe that is also what you guys seem to be doing wrong...

Quoted from "CharlieBananas;505817"

I've pugged TOSH HM bosses, I tank RT+ on my mage, and I die too many times in this game trying to solo content I shouldn't. According to my Zeevex account, it says I've spent a little over $100 on this game, which I'd say $80 of it was gifts for holidays, but that isn't what is important. Considering I've played well over a year and half right now, that's about $5.55 a month at a year and a half. I'm sitting with a T10+16 Shackles Staff, T7+16 Jenny's Robe, and much more gear that other servers haven't even got to drop yet. I've never sold a diamonds to anyone, but yet I can get more than in any given day to suffice my needs of gold to buy the diamonds I need to get through the next week and still have those 6 days of the rest of the week to blow it all. And in that day, here is the kicker, I do not participate in any runs to get that money. Maybe I just manage my money or manage my time better than everyone who seemingly runs TOSH HM on this thread despite servers just now posting that they've done it, but maybe that is also what you guys seem to be doing wrong...

Matty, that's where the server difference comes in I bet. You're on Artemis, the most populated server in the game. Raves is on Reni and while they have a high population compared to say Osha, and god knows probably 5 times the pop. of Palenque... you're talking about pugging and not a guild run.

Imagine if you had to do it in guild. Imagine that no one on the server had cleared it yet. You and your guild were the only ones available to go. It'd be a different story, no?

Ask PPK if they spent some dias of their own when they were pushing that instance. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but the bottom line is that on a server like Reni, and ZOMG multiply that by a large number for us on Palenque... we don't have the resources you guys take for granted on Arty. We don't have as many dia sellers and we don't have as many gear customers either.

How much were you getting for a UD piece of GCH gear prior to the ToSH release? More or less than 3mil? Cause I get between 3-7mil (BYO-ABL) for UD GCH gear, and that won't buy me many dias. No one on Palenque has set foot in ToSH hard, so GCH gear is as good as it gets. I get 3-7mil if I can even find a buyer, and no is buying, so it sits in my backpack and takes up space. People get the shell gear and tell us to kiss off.

I have a feeling it was different on Arty.

Who knows, maybe I'm nuts. But you know me Matty, I wouldn't tell tales. We really do need to buy dias. And maybe we are "doin' it wrong." But that's the only way we know how to do it.

i'm confused... is this a thread to support the poor unfortunate god-mode players who have such a hard time having to endure the slings and arrows of outrageous "accusations"?

I personally know end gamers who got where they are buying their gear when the prices were reasonable.
Someone farmed this gear for them.
They in turn have hiked up the prices of the gear they farm to the point they are not affordable..

It is a trend that has evolved. They were helped get where they are but don't help others that come after them.

This is not true of all end gamers but a blanket statement saying all end gamers are as pure as the driven snow is misleading.

Quoted from "TJBarnes;505953"

They in turn have hiked up the prices of the gear they farm to the point they are not affordable..

Diamond sellers hiked their prices, but we're expected to keep gear at the same low prices? And they are affordable. It it wasn't affordable prices would not be that high... we can only sell as high as people are willing to pay.

Quoted from "Borella;505955"

Diamond sellers hiked their prices, but we're expected to keep gear at the same low prices? And they are affordable. It it wasn't affordable prices would not be that high... we can only sell as high as people are willing to pay.

In my opinion, THIS is the reason that the inflation haven't ended.

The diamond sellers blame their high prices on the high prices of gear. They need to sell for more to afford to gear up.

On the other hand, gear sellers blame diamond sellers for raising prices. Now they need to sell for more to get diamonds.

This is a never ending cycle of blaming, I blame you, you blame me, and the problem will never get resolved, because people will always blame someone else. Unless someone backs down, inflation will never die.

I believe if one side backs down, the other side will have to too as well. Since they use each other as scrapegoats, they'll have nobody to blame on when the other side decides to stop being a scrapegoat.

The question is, who's going to take the first step?

Diamonds went down on Reni.. and so have stat and gear prices. Demon of the Hero was going for 25M just a few days ago, and you say prices are still as high as they've been? Diamond sellers did step down to a lower price.. though personally I blame the fact that the sales lately have been kind of terrible.

On Indigo, diamond sales have dropped by 20~30% (for most people)... but oddly, endgame gear prices have INCREASED... there's this guy who tried to sell me a temple stat for 16m gold because he's in one of those guilds who declare that since they're the only ones who can run instances that high, they can set the price to whatever they feel like. When questioned about it, their only response is always, "if you don't like the prices, run it yourself!" Forgive me if I say it straight out, but diamond sellers DID back down, and the endgame raiders are getting even MORE greedy...

There's a general rule of economics that seems to apply to this entire thread. It's the simple law of supply, and demand.

High supply generally means demand is going to be low, as the number of people who can obtain the item in question (be it diamonds, gear, stats or materials) is greater than with the reverse:

Low supply means demand is high, thereby translating to higher prices.

The current level cap and TOSH have been out for a while now. There's been time for several people to run through the instance and to obtain stats and gear from mem and shell farming. Overall prices on lower instance gears, which have been out longer, diamonds, and stats are dropping on Reni because supply is outpacing demand. Diamonds in particular are dropping because (a) the cash shop sales haven't been the greatest, (b) fewer and fewer people were able to sell them for significant amounts of gold (a primary function of buying diamonds, lots of people simply sold stats instead once they were able to run for them), and (c) because of the excess amount of supply, buyers got competitive when choosing the price to buy at.

Things will likely increase again if any of the above factors changes.

Quoted from "Silenteye7;506021"

On Indigo, diamond sales have dropped by 20~30% (for most people)... but oddly, endgame gear prices have INCREASED... there's this guy who tried to sell me a temple stat for 16m gold because he's in one of those guilds who declare that since they're the only ones who can run instances that high, they can set the price to whatever they feel like. When questioned about it, their only response is always, "if you don't like the prices, run it yourself!" Forgive me if I say it straight out, but diamond sellers DID back down, and the endgame raiders are getting even MORE greedy...

Lol. That's a strategy that is bound to backfire, especially if the buyer is incensed enough by the response to get good enough to run it themselves. Talk about a networking failure.

I do believe endgamers are people & some are greedy & some are not. Same goes for diamond sellers..

Quoted from "Silenteye7;506021"

On Indigo, diamond sales have dropped by 20~30% (for most people)... but oddly, endgame gear prices have INCREASED... there's this guy who tried to sell me a temple stat for 16m gold because he's in one of those guilds who declare that since they're the only ones who can run instances that high, they can set the price to whatever they feel like. When questioned about it, their only response is always, "if you don't like the prices, run it yourself!" Forgive me if I say it straight out, but diamond sellers DID back down, and the endgame raiders are getting even MORE greedy...

Well, at least now you have somebody to blame

as for nerfing: there are two diferent things people are asking for.

nerfs are asked for on certain abilities that are the staple, and by that, meaning the only ability you use because it hits that hard, abilities on a class. for instance: hax blade. descriptively, it hits too hard, too fast. it wouldn't be so bad if other abilities had to be used mid combat, if that particular class couldn't sit at 220 range and press that one button over and over again and kill literally anything but a priest with a bajillion mdef (i'll cover this in a moment). or low blow for more than anyone's HP, being the only skill a rogue has to use to kill someone. or snipe shooting through walls, or (s/p) being a 1 second cast. rogues being able to two shot well geared people with a bow (scout territory), combo shot killing in those three shots faster than a heal can be started. there are others, but i'm tired.

that's the zone for nerf calls. if you can't see the difference between a nerf call because you have too high a weapon and a nerf call for 'you don't have to do anything but press this one button every now and then to own -nearly- equivalent players, you've got 'i don't wanna be able to lose to someone who can just plain outplay me' blinders on. nerfs i particularly want don't mean i want someone nerfed into the floor, i want them to not run around 'lololol i press this button once every second and i kill ur guild even though you're only one dungeon gear level behind me'.

second part: defenses. this could fix a lot of issues, and possibly not require any nerfs. they could fix everything by just bloody making damage ratios NOT compare number to number and imply a damage reduction based on the individual number, not the difference between the two. someone without 200k pdef will still take plenty of damage compared to someone with 80k, but by god, some of these people may be able to play their classes.


as for running end game: different servers have different issues. there aren't enough buyers on some, sellers on others. but it still comes down to the same thing everywhere. people should be able to get things they want, and not feel raped. i mean honestly, 20 bucks on double dias (if they'd put the right freakin sales back in the IS) gets enough to stat almost everything you can to a dungeon running level and beyond. why in the name of god should someone sell an item for more gold than the same thing would take? one piece of gear (not plussed, not tiered and statted) should go for a modest amount, because other people have to go through the same hell you did to stat it. you're now leveling a penalty to other players by selling them an OD piece of equipment to them for more than it cost you to stat three pieces of gear. and it holds true, believe it or not in most circumstances, it's a propagating cycle of greed. 'you wanna sell a piece of equipment for that much? diamond math says you're now trying to get three pieces worth of dias off me. i'm raising the price on you.' 'he's charging so much for diamonds, i have no idea why, i'm just gonna have to sell for more.'

everything on this is coming from one person's point of view, that's human nature. it's also in human nature to recognize, analyze, and comprehend an issue, and make it right. it IS up to both sides to see and understand. yes, you spent a bunch of gold repairing, buying potions, food, etc, to do what was done. i do it too. however, i also understand the value difference of a single piece of equipment compared to trying to sell it for fourty purified fusion stones. what i also do, is things to help mitigate my costs, by crafting some of my own stuff, selling all this trash that drops to a vendor, making my own free tier stones, and in general, contributing my time to the betterment of all if i can manage.

the last part of that is when you overdo it. now you compound that initial problem above with the part where you not only want to be able to do things, but now that you have, you want to do it better, thereby, needing more stuff, more stuff, MORE STUFF! and losing track of the reality, that you are now trying to go beyond what's needed, and penalizing people even more for doing so. yes, you'll have to do it over again next time. taking advantage of summply over demand is good, but you know, that supply keeps growing. after you sell off 5 pieces, and some other dude sells off 5 pieces, and everyone else does, the demand goes down, making it so you don't sell anything, as opposed to keeping a constant price which everyone can grow into.

enough of that, it's not gonna make a difference anyhow, but if it's kept in mind and understood, everyone gets to be able to afford more, making a better flow, and securing you more deals for cheaper prices in the future. mcdonalds cheeseburgers are cheap for a reason. they sell more at a lower price, thereby making more money. if you've ever said: the customer is always right, i suggest you take a good look at who the customer really is. if you don't believe that, (and you shouldn't, it's false [when it comes down to what most people think it means]) then you should remember that vendors offer lower and lower prices, because steady inflow makes for better fiscal profits. this isn't gasoline we're dealing with. it's not a substance that's used and irreplaceable, this is a trickle down item that will be around making everyone's lives better when it's sold to another person,and suddenly, that person has their money back to buy from you, because the prices are now within more people's ranges.

that was more than a moutful, and i can't think of a good summarizing tl;dr note. o.O

I've actually read through every single post reply to Rave's original statements and, to get back to the point, I see a few things daily in-game.

First, all the whining and ire against better-geared players is ridiculous and I can't help but wonder how much comes from pure, old-fashioned jealousy. No one needs to be nerfed! Here's a simplistic solution, Ask. For. Help!

I am not, by any stretch of anyone's imagination, a mondo-geared, OP player, not on either my mage or warden but I am moderately effective because I keep learning new things from my mates who do understands subtleties about the game I don't know! Have I acquired some excellent gear and stats? Yes! Some came from running through instances with my mates and, yes, some I managed to buy after doing the tedious tasks like harvesting and selling and a whole lot of them came from my mates trying to help me improve. In my opinion, that is what every guild should be doing... helping their mates! I really do believe that a helping hand from their guildmates would cut down on the frustration and, hence, the QQing. People get frustrated then they look for a target for that frustration.

(Personal note: Not much makes me go high and right faster than seeing a mid- to upper-level guilded toon with gear that should have gone into the hopper 20 levels ago. There's two possible answers to why they're walking around with sub-standard gear; either they're too embarrassed to ask for help or their upper-level/endgame guildmates don't give a damn about their own mates who might need a helping hand. And that's all I'm going to say about that.)

Along that vein, being powerlevelled does NOT improve your toon! If someone is being carried along they are never going to learn the intricacies of each instance and then will be, essentially, useless to anyone else. There's a huge difference between asking for help to learn an instance and being carried. All the veteran players know that and, again, from my personal experience, they are willing to help others learn said instances and, as a result, gain the gear and/or stats they need.

As for diamond-buying, I must be denser than a redwood because I do not understand the vitriol being spewed against those of us who are financially lucky enough to be able spend our own RL cash. It's my money, am I not allowed to spend it however I choose?

To another point that was brought out here, yes, there are some genuinely greedy people in the game. This is a microcosm of the real world here and there are greedy drek in real life and there are also generous people. Do I think the current in-game diamond prices are obscene? Oh, hell, yes! I don't sell diamonds in world but I have sold to my friends and that usually ends up in a "discussion" about how I'm not charging enough! That is my choice! You want the in-game prices on diamonds to go down? STOP buying them from the overpriced sellers! It's a supply and demand market, folks!

At the end of the day, if you're lagging behind and feel frustrated, ask someone who looks like they might be able to help you. If your own guild is not stepping up to help out their brothers and sisters, shout out or go looking for a guild that is willing to help and encourage their mates. Nerfing anyone is not going to solve the problem.

finally someone had to say this excellent post above.

@soeidhal I can agree with what you say. But here is where a major problem lies in the community at large. Most if not all so called "Endgamers" refuse to assist anyone with getting gear. Yes there might be a few, but even hearing them in guild chat they complain about having to run low level members through instances. Several guilds that I personaly know will not help out anyone that is not within their guild. Why not?? The majority feel that if someone isn't in their guild it is a waste of time to go out of their way to help them. I have yet too see any "Endgamer" helping someone in an instance far lower than what they feel is worthy of their time. Well we all ahd to start somewhere. Get off your lazy butts and help out the low level players. Go out and donate a million to a low level player. You never know that player you help out might become a better person for it. Unlike now where noone gives a crap about teh low levels and especialy the new players.
New players are what drive a publisher to create more and new content. No new players means no new content, and the eventual death of a game. Do we want that? I know I do not. Change your attitudes or else we will all be looking at a new post by FA that tells us the RoM servers will be closing for good.