Runes of Magic US / AU

Now this is just food for thought but what about the people who have to be f2p? I'm talking about the kids whose parents won't let them put money into a game. I've only put in $10 into this game during the current dia sell, and only because i needed a mount and to get a Fruit of Forgetting. Just think about that.

The F2P people spend countless hours, farming instances and daily items so that the P2P people don't have to. Without the F2P people the diamond sales would just about end because there would be nothing for the F2P people to buy.
There is no such thing as a real F2P person, in order to play the game you have a choice to spent money or time to advance. The F2P people spend their time the P2P people their money the exchange of time for money is how this world works in game or out.

..........

Quoted from "regentego;508479"

What would you all think of this

$4.99 per month sub.
You receive 400 diamonds
1 adventure pack

Now those with the sub will have the ability to Send gold via mail, and COD.

Those without the Sub cannot send gold or COD, but they still can receive gold and trade it. Its an annoyance, but with a steady stream of revenue frogster can drop their CS prices.

Just an idea...

Currently $5 gets you 105 diamonds. Why would frogster want to limit their f2p players (who, as has been pointed out many times, indirectly drive Frogster sales) while giving more to their current p2p players? You're basically suggesting that a company cut out a large (albeit less profitable) portion of their market and simultaneously cut their margins on their most lucrative market segment. I'm sorry, that just doesn't make any kind of business sense.

Diamond buyers get rubies. F2P don't.

But what you're looking for here is to have an advantage yourself over the majority of the player population. To me, this seems like a personal ego booster that anything. Yeah, your rogue has 180k or some odd hp, but why? What's the point? I just see it as your attempt to elevate yourself above others. You even admit yourself-you come home from work, and have nothing to spend money on other than a video game where you have to point out almost each time you post how great your character is.

Here's my advice-go out, go club, do something. Stop giving money to a game that fails its player base repeatedly. Go make up for whatever it is you feel you couldn't achieve when you were younger in real life. Its not gonna happen in a video game.

All this coming from (until the BS that is siege war) a paying player.

I'm seriously offended by this post. As a long time, deep pocket spender when I first started playing, to the current "occasional" spender I am now, I would have to say, someone who would even suggest this topic has NEVER taken the time to level a character without spending copious amounts of diamonds for it. Do you, regentego even have a clue just how difficult this game is without having a monetary backing? Before CoO/Xav, I would say it was completely impossible to level up a new toon in any feasible time (and yes, I was playing with DFR was the only way to go...). Now, with the way that gearing is possible to purchase, it has made just about any endgame content unreachable by the average F2P gamer.

Now, you're saying in addition to the fact that F2P gamers have a harder time leveling, virtually have no-chance in a PvP system versus a P2P player, and will never see current patch endgame content until the next chapter(s), unless being run-through BY heavy diamond buyers... you want to make things even LESS F2P friendly? Why not just re-title this thread, "GTFO F2P, I HATE YOU ALL!!"

You gotta think man... without the F2P gamers here, it would be a practically empty game, with 10% of it's current population, all trying to run things on different schedules, and trying to sell whatever they've gotten to each other, which none of them need or want.

So, the product frogs are selling is access to servers that you need to play the game. And the argument is that if you consume more product by playing more and putting more time, you should have to pay less money. All righty then... That makes lots of business sense to me.

Quoted from "regentego;508521"

BJ I thought the point of a F2P and P2P was to make money? Most F2P put major sanctions on people who spend less then $5 per month. ROM is not the norm, RoM gave the keys to the kingdom away in hopes everyone would chip in a few bucks. With your logic Frogster could say Oh you want that ticket answered? Wait you made the choice not to pay, we made the choice to get to your ticket...never"

The weight of the world is not on my shoulders, but I bet the Frogster America employees who were let go feel that way, people who are f2p scream fix this, where is my support ticket. But real world, all those things cost money. But ill just concede and from now on I'll say "Everything is good here, the F2P told me so."

Now I'm confused... I believe you've said you're a business man, so I'll ask you: in your mind, is it your customers' responsibility to keep you in business? Because if that's what you think, I'm impressed that you make enough to spare money on RoM. It's not our job to keep Frogster's office lights on; it is Frogster's job is to offer us enough enjoyment that we will both play, and spend money on their game. I have no responsibility for Frogster; if they fail to provide a needed/desirable service, let them fold. I'm not shedding any tears.

How does RoM compare to other MMOs? You're right, some F2P MMOs are more restrictive with F2P content than is RoM. Then again, many others are much more open too, and have a CS with nothing in it except skins and cosmetics. RoM is somewhere in the middle. Overall, RoM's CS seems to be more expensive than most, but this is primarily because they have not properly adjusted prices to account for the expansions they have made, and not because of their original business model.

Let me also mention, Ebilone, that if they made RoM a sort of hybrid sub/CS game, you would find it very difficult to keep up. Sure, you could ride your current stash for quite a while, but since I am able to play many more hours per week, I'd catch up and pass you. Besides, there is already enormous reward for being p2p. It is possible to get over the hump and stay there for free, but it is not easy. You mentioned somewhere that you are able to play some 4-6(?) hours per week. But you know, if I take away all the time I spend doing dailies, minis, farming mentos, farming events, and farming gold, I probably only have about the same amount of time as you to actually enjoy the game. If there were no F2P, you couldn't sell diamonds, and couldn't buy cheap stats--you'd have to farm them yourself or farm your own gold to pay for them. Sound like fun? It isn't. I promise.

Overall, I'm really confused by HOW you (or anyone else) would benefit from any of the changes you've suggested. You'd fall behind everyone who has more time than you. Most F2P would be driven off. Everyone, F2P and P2P, would have their freedom of choice taken away. And Frogster would lose a huge portion of their playerbase because that freedom of choice is the number one reason people keep playing.

Quoted from "regentego;508521"

BJ I thought the point of a F2P and P2P was to make money? Most F2P put major sanctions on people who spend less then $5 per month. ROM is not the norm, RoM gave the keys to the kingdom away in hopes everyone would chip in a few bucks.

Wrong. RoM gave the keys away in hopes that certain people would spend thousands to make their character as leet as possible. Think about what really pays Frogster's electricity bill. Now stroke it. Seriously, Frogster doesn't much care WHO spends the money, so long as SOMEONE does. If you spend $500 a month and 99 F2P spend nothing, it is the same to Frogster as if everyone spent $5 that month. Except, if you start charging a minimum of $5/month, not all F2P will start "contributing"; most will simply leave. You might be left with 5-10 people, each paying $5/month, and all pissed because they can't find any runs.

Quoted from "regentego;508564"

Silenteye, I'm not giving any original ideas here, these are all implemented in some very well established F2P. The fact is people are saying "I shouldn't have to spend money, because I spend alot of time playing" wouldn't you think they should kick in a few bucks for using the game so much?

I once worked in a company that had a saying, "a business thrives by the number of people seen in the lobby." The general idea behind it is, that a company stays successful by how many people see how many other people are taking part in it. Word of mouth brings in new people and potentially more business. A business that has shareholders, but no customers doesn't last long, because no one knows they even exist, and are crushed by other similar companies that cater to advertisement and customer loyalty to their product.

The reason why players in this game are rewarded for spending time here, is because the more people that are seen playing on a server, encourages other players, who are potential customers, to continue playing as well. If you are on an empty server, you don't stick around long. Human beings are social by nature, and this is a critical selling point. Additionally, the longer you play, the better the chances are that you'll end up buying something, because there are just some things you CANNOT get without paying for them. Whether you pay someone in-game earned gold for their diamonds or you buy them yourself, you're still getting money to the pockets of Frogwalker.

All those stats you've bought, all those pieces of gear you've picked up from someone else, all those stacks of daily quest items you've purchased, those were all gained by someone who put the TIME into the game to earn them. You can only buy that stuff indirectly, or earn it yourself.

You can argue all you want about how the privileged class is the more important role in your opinion, but without someone to clean the dishes, or haul the trash (doing all the crap jobs you just don't wanna do)​, your world comes crashing down around your shoulders.

Gifting for gold was not supposed to be done, but Frogster turned a blind eye to it because dias were removed from the AH until they could come up with a fix for that issue. They basically turned an exploit into a game feature and used it to sweep an issue they couldn't solve under the rug. Now the game seems to be in even bigger trouble than when Dias were removed. The time between now and then has brought nothing new on the Diamond trade issue because the players solved the issue and it's gave FA no blame if someone got scammed.

If Diamond trade "gifting for gold" is removed now this game will crumble in a few months, the F2P community will leave as soon as new content hits. At this point the game can't afford to loose the F2P community because there will be no one for P2Pers to sell items to. The P2Pers are going F2P or leaving already.....what's left to do besides close the game down?

Ok.....Hypothetical questions! Here is the situation Dia Trade is removed, players can't "Gift for Gold" how could/would the game go on?

1. How are F2Pers going to stat gear?

2. How are F2Pers going to new gear.

3. How are F2Pers going to enhance their own gear? (Plus/ Hammer/Drill)

4. How are F2Pers going to sell their old gear and or any drops they get that are Bound?

Quoted from "regentego;508578"

Yes I'm a businessman, no I don't do free work, and I would never ask my employees to work for free, but that's what every F2P player here is asking of Rom. You want things fixed fast and answered fast, and you want it all for free...

No, I'm not asking Frogster employees to work for free. I'm casting a vote that their game is not worth my money. Every dollar I do or do not spend is a vote for or against a particular product or service. The service that Frogster is providing is not worth my money. If RoM IS worth it to others, it is up to those people to vote for it. I have NO responsibility to keep Frogster going. I pay for services I want, and don't pay for services I don't want. It's that simple.

Problem BJ you're looking at the little picture, there is a whole lot of selfishness in the F2P welfare mentality. I'm looking at keeping the servers on while F2P players just assume others will buy enough diamonds so that they can play hours a day without ever showing RoM financial support.

First, I find your welfare inferences offend my pride a little. Not because I'm sensitive or guilty, but because I've been through tougher times than I bet you'd care to imagine, and have never once considered a government hand-out. I do not, and will never accept anything that was forcibly taken from someone else. Secondly, you're bordering on ad-hominem here, which I want to avoid stirring. But really, welfare (socialism, communism, etc.) seems much more fitting to your attitude. You seem to be saying that we should subsidize RoM, simply because you don't want the servers to shut down. I say, let them earn it. Give me a game worth paying to play, and I'll gladly pay. RoM is not that game for me right now, but that fact does not mean I am selfish or have a welfare mentality.

If $5 a month is too much for someone for 100 plus hours of play then I think it's time to rethink life, not just a game. Seriously I'd be embarrassed to show my face to the world if that was my financial situation.

Can't afford $5 a month Hah! That's funny and scary at the same time. Maybe I'm just cut from a different clothe, I work 12-14 hours a day so I don't have to worry about money, if I ever needed to take second job to get ahead I would have one under a week. And I would happily become the best at whatever it was.

Who knows? Perhaps you really are a cut from a different cloth*. No doubt there is much I could learn from you (for once, I'm not being sarcastic).

Let me note however: "Wouldn't pay" =/= "Can't afford"

No one here will agree with me you're all on mental and most likely some kind of government welfare. So you all win =D

PS Silenteye, at the age of 14 I was a dish washer, at the age of 18 a line cook, at the age of 21 a waiter, by 24 a nightclub manager, by 26 I ran 5 nightclubs in 3 states. Every crap job there was I did, and did them so well I was catapulted to the top. Since the age of 14 I have been without employment for a total of maybe 3 weeks. I'm 35 now and run an entirely different industry, because numbers are numbers, no matter the field profit and sustainability is what matters. I'm up 15% in one of the worst economies. My world will only crash if I allow it too. I've started at the bottom before intentionally cause I knew I would run the place. That's just me though.

Impressive. I mean that. But please understand that you've got a tremendous head start on me (and I'm sure, others) financially. The fact I (admittedly) am not at the same level, does not mean I'm on mental or government welfare, nor does it in any way indicate that I'm lazy. You've just got a head start.

Now, I'm not apparently as rich as Ebil, nor am I at "end game" status gear wise, but I do buy diamonds to both sell for gold and enhance my gear, yet at the end of my $100 monthly diamond spending spree, I always feel... jipped. For $100 a month I should get the dang worth of my money, yet the type of diamond prices in game make me feel like I paid $50 for 8 ounces of warm milk.

This player who was buying at least $150 worth of diamonds a month is tired of feeling like he's getting bent over and given the rough end of a cactus enema. I understand P2Pers like me help keep people employed and help keep the servers running, but RoM's damned prices for things are so high for things I never feel like I get my money's worth. Item shop prices need to be cut in half and I'll go back to buying. Maybe also give people who buy diamonds an exclusive form of currency that can only be used for your character.

I have heard people say cash shop item people are better geared, and that is NOT always true. There are F2Pers on my server who are 10x better geared than me because they are in F2Per guilds that run instances over and over and over and sell their loot for millions while as I don't have time to do that. Time for minigames and mentos runs for hours upon hours? No. Money to buy a similar effect? Yes. Why not allow me to hang in there with those F2P end gamers by giving a resource the entire community needs and frogster wants? (My money)

...hmmm, you put crimson+ stats in the item shop and I will give everyone at frogster enough money for Christmas bonuses for the next 5 years. Not really but you get what I am saying.

*shrug* I see a lot of people here arguing F2P issues and sides and stuff, and I think alot of it is valid. But some arguments.. well you just have to be as dedicated as P2Pers like us to really understand how bad of a deal you feel you got each time you buy.

I am F2P for 3 reasons. They are because the game is horrible broken, customer service is gone, and prices are insanely high. When diamonds were in the AH, I bought them occasionally and they were cheap. That was because not a ton of diamonds were needed for the game. After that I bought diamonds myself a couple times during double diamonds and last time during 2 year anniversary. Again, the CS was a little high, but I did not need an overbearing amount; at least the first 2 times. At the 2 year it was getting expensive.

Now endgame is insanely too expensive. I know that even paying $15-$20 a month would not even get me close to endgame. Therefore, I do not bother to try. And after the 2 year anniversary, diamonds sellers quit or became F2p by the droves. Since I cannot afford to pay insane real money amounts or the gold to buy from those few that do; I just play a hour or so a day in the hopes that someday they will get the game working and seriously drop prices.

If they do fix the game, and drop the prices to reasonable levels, I would gladly start paying again, even if only $10 a month.

The last time I bought diamonds outside the 2 year anniversary, +6 was the best you could do, and clean t4 yellow gear was all you needed to run top instances. If +6 was all you could do now and the equivalent gear would be clean t5, maybe t6; then endgame would not be nearly as expensive. Back then, they did not sell runes in the CS either, so tier 5 runes was considered great.

RW and frogster just kept making and selling more stuff we could do to improve our characters while creating a higher and higher price tag with each new level. In a crazy race to be the best, many players would try to outgear everyone else and Rw had to keep making instances even harder to compensate. In reality, the hardcore gamers that have to be the best, are what causes the companies to sell even more upgrades. If everyone played at reasonable levels, instances would match that gear level and there would be no need to become OP.

In summary, RW and frogster saw that players wanted to be better than everyone else, so they sold them stuff that allowed it. If all those elitest players had scaled back, the game would be cheap enough that there would be a lot more paying customers. Sadly, many of those elitest players have quit long time ago, because they realized how much they were spending. I sincerely hope the game gets better, but I have already moved on to another game and give it a lot more of my time. I am even considering spending cash on the new game, even though I have only been there 3 weeks. I do not need what the money can buy yet, but I like the game, it has good customer support, and it runs smoothly. Runes currently lacks all 3 of these things. Get them back and I will return with my money.

These guys: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions explain why ftp players are actually rather important to a mmo like runes of magic (see roughly 2:15 and beyond, but the entire video is a good watch, those guys are brilliant).

It's way too late for ROM to switch to a less friendly F2P system. The game would die quicker than the pace its on now. If runewaker and frogs want to save this game they need to focus on pvp. PvPers are a huge chunk of the mmos populations and ROM has a very small piece of that group of gamers.

Quoted from "keymakr;508602"

These guys: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions explain why ftp players are actually rather important to a mmo like runes of magic (see roughly 2:15 and beyond, but the entire video is a good watch, those guys are brilliant).

WOW! That was absolutely spectacular keymakr, I've been trying to explain this for so long to people like regenteo, and this video just put is all right there, served up in crayon. Couldn't make it more simplified. Bravo... personally, I think you need to make a whole new thread with just this link as the opening statement, and title it for attention to FM/CM/GM's to forward to Frogster & Runewalker, because they're at the "wrong way" point and this video explains it from top to bottom.

Seems my previous statements have only beven reinforced.

Honestly, I could care less if they shut the servers down. Im a sw guy, and its been almost 3 weeks-and its gotten worse. Amidst all these faults people expect others to PAY? Hell no.

Give me game that is WORTH 5 or 10 dollars a month, and I *might* agree. This isn't that game, not at the current state.