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81

Friday, February 10th 2012, 5:03am

Quoted from "regentego;508670"


@silenteye, You feeling guilty bro?


regentego, as a fellow player here from back before chapter 2, you should know that someone who has played as long as either of us, could never stick around as long as we have without putting money into this game. A real F2P gamer would've felt the pinch of the cash shop a long time ago, and would've either chosen to quit or buck up. And, like many who first come to this game, I dumped more than a couple years worth of subscription into it, before I even understood what the real valuable items were. Lastly, I now train up a guild of new players, boarding on about 40 active, and 50 semi-active gamers who I instruct on how to level up, gear up and overcome the level 55 wall to eventually be a moderate to advanced endgame character... one thing I've learned is that if you show people the way, and they get a taste of what the possibilities they can achieve are, they end up shelling out the cash hand over fist to become those uber-powerful players they actually get to see. Even the hardcore F2P gamers who absolutely don't put money into the game, I've shown towards the surveys pages and instructed how to get their "free" diamonds... so even there I've managed to push some of them into the cash shop, a number of which has no other means to support the game, but they do.

So no... I don't feel guilty. I feel upset that you're attacking one of the biggest content aspects of this game, and trying to lessen it by saying that these "freeloaders" need to pony up or GTFO. F2P or P2W, all players ARE content, and the more there are, the more fun this game is for everyone. Players, regardless of F2P or P2W bring in new players, which often generates more revenue, and players, regardless of their financial situation are one of the BIGGEST retention lines this game has. So many, many people have stuck with this game, or with a server that's fallen on hard times, simply because their friends are still playing, and haven't given up. Driving away or blaming F2P players because they're not spending as much as you have, weakens the game as a community, and thus drives away a large portion of the game's content. Every person who plays this game serves a purpose, and I would not wish to see that purpose cheapened because it's refused to be seen.

Do I think that people should contribute to the game more? Absolutely. But not because it's fallen on hard times. I think people should contribute to the game because they feel it's necessary for their character. Because they feel that if they do, they'll enjoy the game more. But I do not think that if they don't yet fell that way, it's okay for you to direct your misguided anger at their lack of financial support.

regentego

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82

Friday, February 10th 2012, 5:35am

Quoted from "Silenteye7;508796"

regentego, as a fellow player here from back before chapter 2, you should know that someone who has played as long as either of us, could never stick around as long as we have without putting money into this game. A real F2P gamer would've felt the pinch of the cash shop a long time ago, and would've either chosen to quit or buck up. And, like many who first come to this game, I dumped more than a couple years worth of subscription into it, before I even understood what the real valuable items were. Lastly, I now train up a guild of new players, boarding on about 40 active, and 50 semi-active gamers who I instruct on how to level up, gear up and overcome the level 55 wall to eventually be a moderate to advanced endgame character... one thing I've learned is that if you show people the way, and they get a taste of what the possibilities they can achieve are, they end up shelling out the cash hand over fist to become those uber-powerful players they actually get to see. Even the hardcore F2P gamers who absolutely don't put money into the game, I've shown towards the surveys pages and instructed how to get their "free" diamonds... so even there I've managed to push some of them into the cash shop, a number of which has no other means to support the game, but they do.

So no... I don't feel guilty. I feel upset that you're attacking one of the biggest content aspects of this game, and trying to lessen it by saying that these "freeloaders" need to pony up or GTFO. F2P or P2W, all players ARE content, and the more there are, the more fun this game is for everyone. Players, regardless of F2P or P2W bring in new players, which often generates more revenue, and players, regardless of their financial situation are one of the BIGGEST retention lines this game has. So many, many people have stuck with this game, or with a server that's fallen on hard times, simply because their friends are still playing, and haven't given up. Driving away or blaming F2P players because they're not spending as much as you have, weakens the game as a community, and thus drives away a large portion of the game's content. Every person who plays this game serves a purpose, and I would not wish to see that purpose cheapened because it's refused to be seen.

Do I think that people should contribute to the game more? Absolutely. But not because it's fallen on hard times. I think people should contribute to the game because they feel it's necessary for their character. Because they feel that if they do, they'll enjoy the game more. But I do not think that if they don't yet fell that way, it's okay for you to direct your misguided anger at their lack of financial support.



No I said they are welfare recipients, Freeloaders lurk, welfare users take with no intention of giving back, yet complain it's not enough. My anger is not misdirected, it's directed right in the cross hairs of the F2P. No one is in hard times, their mindset is, personal accountability is lost. How bought a compromise, F2P can chill and play, and take their free stuff, but they are not allowed to complain about anything, cause they are not doing anything to help resolve the matter, BECAUSE all fixes take MONEY! I don't know any other languages, how else can I say, people cost money, people fix things, no money no people to fix things. F2P BAD! Money GOOD!

Anyhow, you can tell I'm Republican : P But I saw this article on Yahoo, sort of relevant, but I love the comments more then anything I will link it

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/…-194851996.html

This comment made me laugh.

"RUNES OF MAGIC. Example of an excellent free to play game. Yeah in game purchases, but you don't really need them because there are SO MANY people that do play it and theres enough money to go around."

Anyhow my lesson of the day, you can't argue with people who collect welfare, be it in game or IRL.

83

Friday, February 10th 2012, 7:43am

Quoted from "regentego;508803"

No I said they are welfare recipients, Freeloaders lurk, welfare users take with no intention of giving back, yet complain it's not enough. My anger is not misdirected, it's directed right in the cross hairs of the F2P. No one is in hard times, their mindset is, personal accountability is lost. How bought a compromise, F2P can chill and play, and take their free stuff, but they are not allowed to complain about anything, cause they are not doing anything to help resolve the matter, BECAUSE all fixes take MONEY! I don't know any other languages, how else can I say, people cost money, people fix things, no money no people to fix things. F2P BAD! Money GOOD!

Anyhow my lesson of the day, you can't argue with people who collect welfare, be it in game or IRL.


I think I can still make one last reply without merely repeating myself.

First, your repeated comparison of F2P with welfare is really inaccurate. Never is anything forcibly taken from any player and given to another in the name of "equality". If that were the case, I concede that would be welfare. There is no welfare in RoM, because no one is forcibly taking anything away from anyone. ALL players are given certain things for free, yourself as much as any other. Those things include access to all quests, zones, levels, equipment, and the Token shop. Everything from the CS is, in an ultimate sense, optional for every one of us. No one forces anyone, great or small, young or old, short or fat, broke or wealthy, to buy diamonds and spend them. That is the individual's choice, and it is between them and their wallet to decide how much they want to spend on what the CS has to offer. The decision is never forced.

Free-to-play people do not affect your own freedom. Free-to-play people do of course cost Frogster money, but that is between them and Frogster. Free-to-play people cost you absolutely nothing at all. Frogster does not tax you, or take away your money by force to supply content to F2Ps. Nor do F2Ps take away your money or diamonds by force. Whether another person is F2P or P2P, their decisions do not in any way affect your personal freedom to choose if, when, where, and how much to spend.

Secondly, you keep reversing the law of supply and demand, and it's absolutely driving me crazy how messed up that is. Forget RoM, Frogster, and everything else for a second.

Le story:

Let's say I offer you all the free oranges you want, then offer to sell you lemons. Depending on your taste, you may ask the price before making a decision. If you like lemons, you may or may not buy any depending on the price. But for the purpose of example, let's say you don't like lemons. Rather than simply decline the offer, you mention that you don't care for those, but a peach would be lovely.

[I have several options here. If I handle it right, I could make a friend and a profit. If I handle it poorly, I could lose one or the other. If I really muck it up, I might lose both, and the opportunity may never present itself again.]

Your proposition, and Ending #1:

"I might be able to give you a peach, but you'll need to buy some lemons first. Hehe, you know it's pretty hot today, and I will really get tired if I have to walk over to those peach trees, pick a peach, and bring it all the way back. You'd probably better pay me for a lemon first, and then I'll think about getting you a peach."
"Meh, I think I'll pass then. I didn't think it would be so much trouble. Anyway, these oranges are good enough for me. You said I can have as many as I want, right?"
"Oh. Yeah. I guess you can have the oranges, but um... You sure you don't want one of these lemons?"
"No thanks. That one is actually starting to rot anyway... Hate to mention it, but.. yeah. That's partially why I didn't want it the first time."
"Ha! Complaining, eh? And you haven't even paid for it yet! The nerve! Here, I'll offer a 20% discount, and then you can complain all you like. Seriously, you can't complain until you pay something for it."
"Yeah... I'm thinking I'd better head home now. Thanks for the oranges. I guess."
"Come back if you want to buy my lemons."
"Right....."

My proposition, and Ending #2:

"A peach you say? Absolutely! I have three varieties here. Care to try one of each?"
"Oh sweet! Sure, I think I will try one of each. I know I probably shouldn't, but--WoW! These are really good!"
"I'm glad you like them! I have plums too, in case you're ever interested. Oh, don't forget that the oranges are free to everyone; you and your friends can have as many as you want, any time you want."
"Seriously? You're... That's very nice of you! Not only are these the best oranges around, but your peaches are incredible. And I have this one friend who really likes plums, man..."


In the second scenario, not only did the guy sell three peaches, he also gained several potential customers, and THE most important form of advertising--word of mouth. Does it make sense now? Offering to sell something a person DOESN'T want so you can afford to sell them something they DO want is really ludicrous. Offer what people want, and they will gladly pay for it. So please, please, PLEASE do not reverse the law of supply and demand again. I will call you out every single time.
$0.02 - free sarcasm included
Cinnie - 70P/K/S - Govinda
Retired May 2012

84

Friday, February 10th 2012, 8:09am

The OP can also be taken in another direction: since the OP is stating that the whole of F2P is nothing but welfare queens, the OP himself is advocating this because he's spent too much money on a game that seems to be going downhill, and he's afraid that the money he spent will be long gone.

zaeltaeth

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85

Friday, February 10th 2012, 10:32am

Wow, Ebil... you are just one bundle of love and understanding.

And you still miss a very important point. To repeat:

Firstly your whole tirade on welfare is just unfair, bigoted and plain wrong in the general sense. Sure, there are some people like that, but they are not the majority.

Secondly, who are the ones complaining, who are not putting money in at the moment. Half the time they are players who were supporting the game and buying money, but have stopped in protest of the crap that's gone on. They are NOT free to play players... they are refuse to pay players. There is a MASSIVE difference between the two categories.

The refuse to pay people have demonstrated that they can afford to buy diamonds, and have done so even in the face of the months / years of letdowns and drama. I see no welfare mentality there...

The key is that they REFUSE to buy diamonds... not that they can't afford them. I dare say if the problems were resolved, most of them would go back to buying diamonds.

"Oh well you should have kept buying diamonds to help pay for Frogster to fix things."

For how long? Some issues are YEARS old. Not weeks, not months, but YEARS! Years that these same people have been harping at Frogster and Runewaker for fixes, while still supporting the game. When is enough enough? How long should a once heavy CS user wait to get their housemaid / chest issue resolved? A month? Two? Six? A year?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result; and yet you're basically yelling in the ears of the refuse-to-pay people that they should return to something they deemed insane a long time ago. Sorry, but that's just fail on every level.

Frogster have had plenty of time to fix issues, and they have not. Runewaker have had plenty of time to fix issues, and they have not. Are you now going to condemn those who have decided not to support the game any longer because their complaints were not dealt with when they were supporting the game?

I think personally you need to get a grip, and get over yourself. If it irks you that much to have to share the server with F2P people then go make a private server or something, and go play on your own.

Pumping more money into a game that is not going to be fixed makes no sense. For the past 2 years the game has not been fixed; Swag came out and said there were things that would never be fixed... everything points to the fact that Runewaker have no interest in fixing the glaring problems with the game, so why keep flogging a dead horse? Us pumping money into Frogster and Runewaker won't change a thing if they have no ability or intention to fix up the problems with the game.

I'll refrain from retorting to your 'lesson of the day'... there are things I could say about arguing with overstuffed money-bags who are so full of their own self-importance that they value their own status and entitlement over the wellbeing of others. So you got a good job. So you have lots of money... Big friggin' deal. One day you'll die and it will all turn to dust anyway. It's all vanity, vanity - chasing after the wind. The big question is, what difference have you made in the life of somebody less well off than you today...?
Retired from RoM. Sorry Froggy/Runefailure. You've had years to fix this game and you failed on every level. Completely, epically failed. Until you get your poop in a pile and fix this game, I'm gone.

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86

Friday, February 10th 2012, 11:19am

During my time playing RoM I've had the pleasure to know 2 people receiving "welfare" with few spare dollars to spend on the game.

The 1st had a terminal illness & passed away about a year back. I miss her!

The 2nd I guess you could call him a "welfare recipient", he was horribly maimed fighting for his (your) country but where I come from he would be called a hero!

Funny world we live in where many don't see the shades of grey...
"I can stand brute force but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect."
Oscar Wilde

87

Friday, February 10th 2012, 1:01pm

*holy crap, i just saw how long this was x.x *

someone tell me if i'm wrong here

<DISCLAIMER> all numbers used as currency for this post are fictional and to be taken with a grain of salt. they are for comparison purposes only

so unless i miss my mark, this game model is 'pay for diamonds so you can get permanent mounts, get items to enhance your quipment's game statistic properties, change your equipments aesthetic properties, and allow trasition of equipment to other persons.' that's very very basic, and it works.

now, lets do some math (remember the disclaimer)

say it takes you 150 dollars worth of diamonds to get your equipment to top of the line playability, but you can only purchase in increments of 200 dollars. you end up with a surplus of 50 dollars. this is no problem you can save it for later.

now, lets inject a player base to this situation. 100% of the people that play are paying this much to enhance their gear. we're going to go with 100 players in this game for now. 100 people times 200 dollars worth of purchases equals 20,000 dollars. nothing looks bad here so far. the game is rolling in the money, they just got 20,000 dollars, they're in the black. the players have gone and done their getting gear, upgrading gear, etc. now, they run the dungeons. over and over. and they backstock all this gear that's useless to them. or they vendor it. or whatever. you have no reason to sell to joe, becuase he's already done it too. and... well, what would you get from him anyway? you already have all your stuff. he's already got all his stuff. now you're standing there with this surplus.

now, we add time frames. say it takes 4 months to add a content level for programming, etc. ok, so after month 1, you've all spent your 20,000 dollars. month 2 comes around. company is still in the black, but it won't be next month. all of you already have everything you need, you've gotten your gear all set up, you've spent your surplus diamonds to make it look pretty, etc. (also note, you've gone beyond what your average p2p cost is, which is 15 dollars a month). month three comes around. you people still don't need anything, so you buy nothing. company is now running in the red, they need a way to make money. they could bring in more people, and they have to be able to afford said 200 dollars for their gear. they could give you new things to increase with, and make them more expensive. but i'm not going in to that.

so month four is here, company is farther into the red, and at the end of the month, powie, you're gonna get more content. you spend your 20,000 dollars in preparation because you know what it's gonna take. company falls farther and farther into the red, because time frame versus spending needed is imbalanced. so, they speed it up. over this next third, they speed up their development, but they had to lose a little with the design. it now comes to you buggy. and at three months. you're ok with this, company is still in the red, they need to speed it up. so they do so after two months. even buggier. couple people don't like the bugs, they quit. see where that's going?

ok, add in the other player base, the free to play. these people spend no diamonds. they play the game and use the slow in game processes of progression. and, they buy the diamonds. some of them, by pure skill playing, manage to succeed in those places you payed to do. and he wants to sell you a new piece of gear you don't have. he offers it to you for.. 10 dollars worth of the surplus you had. that's cool, no problem, you didn't really need to turn that one thing blue anyway. there are say... 1000 of these free peoples playing.

now, there are people who want this stuff you have no use for. they offer to buy it for an in game currency, gold. what do you do with the golds? well... you can only play a few hours a day. that's minis, dailys, some fun stuff, etc. or, running your dungeons over and over, which is ideally, what the game is about. these people farm up the daily items those 100 payers use, and those payers need to find a way to get them from the other people, that way they can use their time more efficiently. so, you offer items for those items. but, what if they don't like the items you have? well then, you can pay them with another form of currency. you buy some more diamonds. company just got more money. which they use to afford to keep staff hired, and working. now, there are not just 100 people out and about saying how cool this game is, there are 1100. and all those voices get more people, some of them that will pay for the enhancement, some who don't.

so here we are, with an increase in people and money, keeping the game going. i see nothing involving freeloading here, i see some people not wanting to do work for themselves, and so are paying other people to do things for them. it's looking more like there are employees getting paid for things. and it just so happens, a lot of them enjoy their time doing these jobs. thing is, they can't be fired honestly. you choose to pay them for a service, or not to. someone else will pay them for it if one of the others don't.

ok, lets add in an earthquake. they release something buggy. the paying players want it fixed. the non paying players want it fixed. no prob, they'll get right on it. it's an important 'thing' that's buggy. it takes thema while to weed out the problem, things get back to normal. however, during this time, 10 of the paying players quit the game over this important bug that prevented their enjoyment of the game. these's a profit loss. the rest of them don't want to spend money till it's fixed. the free players keep doing their things, slowly going in whatever directions they were. now, the company has lost profits due to this thing. the paying players lost friends, lost time, and lost enjoyment. where does this look like it's going? becuase here comes another earthuake. 10 more payers quit, and 100 free players quit. now you're only at 80 payers, which is ONCE EVERY FOUR MONTHS, 16000 dollars. the company now gets farther into the red each month that passes. his leads to firing, cut backs, having to puch more things out faster to get money, raising prices, etc.

if you ask me, this looks more like the paying player's faults than the non payers, because they are failing to pay these people who are giving them a service.

ok, so, lets see what happens when you change it up. it now coses everyone 5 dollars a month to get the farthest progression, to unlock the most needed things. that's 100 players paying 5 dollars, and buying 200 dollars worth of stuff. and then half of the free players do it. that's now 23000 dollars the company gets every 4 months. but now, there's less need for people to buy other things. they get a freebie amount with their five dollars. next month, that's 3000 dollars. the math above spoke no definites on how much it costs the company, but you know at 20,000 a month, they went red in the third month. we have to say it costs them less than 10,000 but more than 6000 a month to meet the bottom line. this helps keep them afloat longer, but still makes them run in the red, which keeps the exact same problems. more now, because there's less incentive for people to buy more diamonds, because now everyone who plays has access to them for 5 dollars a month. and you still have a bunch of players that play for free, not getting anywhere, and knowing this, quit and leave a lot of people without what i'm going to call the 'labor force.'

now, what happens when the inevitable earthquake happens? well, now you have PAYING CUSTOMERS all sorts of them, giving the game a bad rap, and quitting.

well, now that all that has been put out there: you can't classify free to play players as freeloaders. they're classified as a labor force. a mercenary labor force, that sells their services to the highest bidder. what happens when your employees in a job find a better place, that pays more and treats them better? they go to it. they aren't freeloaders, they're getting paid just the same as management in a business, or the owner of a company. and when they find a better job over the horizon, they leave you high and dry. they give a reason for the game to have so much stuff in it. you can't run everything about a business by yourself that has that many open ends in it, ESPECIALLY not do that and put out a proper product in a reasonable amount of time. they serve a purpose to everyone in some way shape or form. look deep, and you'll find it. that monster card you don't have time to farm, they pull those stats you can't get, heck, they fill the healer role that one of the payers is too incompetent to handle.

if the free to play people gripe about things being too expensive, it's usually found in something simple. and that simple thing is usually someone who wants to get more for less. the paying player wants more dog meat, and doesn't want to spend as much. the free player says: well, you used to do this much for this much, wth? what do you EXPECT the reaction to be? and, just the opposite. the free player says i want this, but i only want to give you half the dog meat i used to. you go find another dog meat seller, your dog meat seller goes and finds another diamond seller. and when it finally gets out of control, because some people want too much for something, you end up with what you're seeing. the ones who want too much, looking at the people that can't or won't afford it, getting at odds with each other.

freeloading in this would be logging in, being able to click on the item shop, and get free golden hammers. paying players don't do that. free players don't do that.

if someone runs a business, they understand that 'time IS money.' 10 hours a day, someone makes x amount of money for something they do. doesn't matter whether it's mopping the floors (the person selling aggs someone might like), running the cash register (grinding dog meat to sell), being the chef (healing an instance in gear that lets him succeed), or being the manager (buys diamonds [keeps the store running out of the profits gained, and gives those excess profits to the owning company] to support the game and himself, and gets the tidy little profits at the end, of having the best gear).

there are no freeloaders in RoM. they're the labor force.

now, when the company in question makes a bad product and sends it to his distributors, it goes to the customers. when you get a cold, burnt pizza with the wrong toppings from the restaurant, what do you do? do you say: i understand, mistakes happen, i'll eat this and pay for it. or: this isn't what i ordered, it's cold AND burnt, wtf? get me a new one!

most people will go with the second. what happens when they do it again, the same day? and every day for that week?

well, we all start looking at a new restaurant. has nothing to DO with how much they make, whether they stay in business. that pizza place will either correct the mistake immediately, give a refund and/or lose a customer. regardless of whether the customer comes in and orders a family size pizza, or an order of breadsticks, the quality and the service are expected to be the same. if they aren't, people take their business elsewhere. it IS up to the company to give a product that is quality, regardless of if it's the pizza which pays an entire person's wage for the day, or the guy who orders breadsticks that barely covers the waiter's hourly for that hour. the customer is doing something for the customer every moment he's in the lobby, whether it's making the business look busy, or going to tell his friends that it's a great place to go for food. all businesses are founded on the nothing ventured, nothing gained scenario, where greenmail is invested first to make a proper and exceptional product, and THEN get paid for it, and KEEP that standard of operation.

TL;DR

there are no freeloaders in this game.

the company itself is fully responsible for keeping itself from becoming a forgotten dusty page in history.

aardvark3

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88

Friday, February 10th 2012, 1:30pm

It is just a sad person who believes that a person's time (F2P) is not worth anothers money (P2P). To think of this just as a game is very uninformed there are people around the world who play this and other mmorpg games as their jobs. In ROM it is just done voluntarly by some people while in other games it is done in sweat shops. This game just found a way to do away with some of the sweat shops in the Chinese prisons.

YomanROM

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89

Friday, February 10th 2012, 2:15pm

hi, im new here. Is this the "beat Fandreith's walls of text" thread?

:D

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90

Friday, February 10th 2012, 2:34pm

Quoted from "YomanROM;508877"

hi, im new here. Is this the "beat Fandreith's walls of text" thread?

:D


LMFAO. ^ This is best post of a completely fail politically driven thread.

At least fan's post I enjoy reading as they are story driven and interesting. Fan come tell us a story!!!

regentego

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91

Friday, February 10th 2012, 2:59pm

Quoted from "YomanROM;508877"

hi, im new here. Is this the "beat Fandreith's walls of text" thread?

:D


that just made me LMAO!

This is my other favorite quote from that great wall of china post.

" you ask me, this looks more like the paying player's faults than the non payers, because they are failing to pay these people who are giving them a service."

Service or laziness, wish I could sit around playing a game all day, wait I can but I would be poor. Perhaps you could say the F2P should be thankful I and others pay so they have a game to waste their time on. Hmm am I supporting others poverty by paying.

Runewaker and Frogster makes a game, they put it out there hoping you like it to kick them a few bucks, I mean they wouldn't put the CS there if they didn't want you to spend money.

10th Best Rogue on Artemis.

92

Friday, February 10th 2012, 4:55pm

The statement you mentioned in deus69xxx's post was but a small excerpt from a relatively straight forward scenario that pretty much described the situation. By pointing out that one line and basing his whole argument on that, is really using it out of context.

While I agree to some extent as to what you're saying here, in that it's everyone's responsibility to contribute to the success of the game, I don't think you give proper regard to the services provided by the F2P community, and that just clouds the entire topic with a degree of misguided rage. You also can't shake a finger at someone who isn't buying a flat tire at a higher cost than what they normally paid for an inflated one in the past, and tell them that if you just pay for some fix-a-flat too it'll be good to go.

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93

Friday, February 10th 2012, 5:40pm

Regentego......Do you sell Dias to other players? If you do you should stop and start nagging Dias sellers to stop selling, so the F2Pers have to start buying their own dias. Not like I think this would happen but if no one sells dias then F2Pers have to buy them or move on.
I reject your reality and choose my own instead!
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94

Friday, February 10th 2012, 5:45pm

Perhaps this analogy would make a little more sense.

Let's say there is a restaurant that serves 2 meals. Either steak or peanut butter sandwiches. If you are willing to pay you get steak. If not, you can have peanut butter for free. The restaurant also allows you to get steak for free, but only if you work in the kitchen for several hours each day that you want the steak. If you pay for the steak, you do not have to work at the restaurant at all.

The game in its current state is hurting Ebilone more than the us. He pays for steak each day while we either eat our peanut butter or work in the kitchen. In the current situation, Ebilone is still paying for his steak, but they are serving him peanut butter instead. He hopes that the restaurant will start giving him steak again, but instead of complaining to the restaurant, he complains about the people who eat peanut butter.

Basically, Ebilone is being ripped off more than the F2P because he has spent a small fortune on a game that he fears is dying. He does not want his INVESTMENT to be wasted, so he is badgering the F2P to start spending to make the game profitable again. The problem is, the game was profitable when it was fun and most of it worked. When the game went downhill, it was no longer worth the investment of money; at least not much money.

The game deteriorated while it was profitable. Since the problems were not fixed and actually got worse, people stopped paying (like myself) and went F2P. Now problems are even worse to the point that even the F2P are stopping entirely because the game is no longer fun. I would be willing to wager that a strong majority of those F2P are actually only logging in for dailies now. Only a small portion play all day still in the hopes of earning some steak.

I WANT THIS GAME FIXED TOO, BUT I WOULD ALSO NOT CARE IF THEY CLOSED THE DOORS TOMORROW. If they fix it, and bring back good customer service, I would not only return to play more, but I would buy diamonds again, even though only for my own use. I paid for diamonds when the game was good. When it started falling apart, I stopped buying until the fixed the problems. Some people just cut back on diamonds, but still bought for their own use. But they do not fix problems anymore. In fact, they have only gotten worse.

A company has to have a product that is worth paying for if they want people to buy it. In its current state, ROM is not good enough quality. It has become a social site with a little bit of gaming, not a MMORPG anymore.

regentego

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95

Friday, February 10th 2012, 5:53pm

Quoted from "Silenteye7;508905"

The statement you mentioned in deus69xxx's post was but a small excerpt from a relatively straight forward scenario that pretty much described the situation. By pointing out that one line and basing his whole argument on that, is really using it out of context. What I gathered from it, is that you seem to be a snooty blowhard who get's his jacket back from the dry-cleaners still stained, and instead of directing your frustration at the business, you go outside and yell at the public service attendant who's emptying the trashcan on the sidewalk, because instead of taking his clothes to the dry cleaner to help them afford proper cleaning products, he washes his own clothes.


Yeah bad assumption, I do my own laundry. You poor? Wait that's an assumptive question just like your entire post. You guys just keep trying to justify playing a game for hours a day, using their server, using their support, complaining about the game, yet you can't pay $5. You think a movie theater is gonna let you in for free to make it seem more crowded? Nope... See I got analogies too. Difference is I don't need walls of text to distort things.

Btw if you have paid for the game at any time, even if it was $5 to buy a mount, thank you I'm sure EoM appreciates it, even if they are terrible at telling people Thanks.

96

Friday, February 10th 2012, 6:01pm

Quoted from "regentego;508921"

Yeah bad assumption, I do my own laundry. You poor? Wait that's an assumptive question just like your entire post. You guys just keep trying to justify playing a game for hours a day, using their server, using their support, complaining about the game, yet you can't pay $5. You think a movie theater is gonna let you in for free to make it seem more crowded? Nope... See I got analogies too. Difference is I don't need walls of text to distort things.

Btw if you have paid for the game at any time, even if it was $5 to buy a mount, thank you I'm sure EoM appreciates it, even if they are terrible at telling people Thanks.


Do you know that many new and emerging night clubs actually pay people to stand outside in line, to make other's think that it's the place to be? When they make their way through the line, and get into the club, they then just go out the back exit change a jacket or something, and get back in line again. Their sole purpose is to just bring in more business to the club, simply by being there.

regentego

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Friday, February 10th 2012, 6:09pm

Quoted from "Silenteye7;508923"

Do you know that many new and emerging night clubs actually pay people to stand outside in line, to make other's think that it's the place to be? When they make their way through the line, and get into the club, they then just go out the back exit change a jacket or something, and get back in line again. Their sole purpose is to just bring in more business to the club, simply by being there.


Remember the part I said, I used to run a chain of nightclubs? What they actually do is have the doorman slow down if not hold the line. They will use "Were at compacity" In fact every nighclib owner in San Diego, Arizona, Texas I knew used this. Never heard of anyone paying to make line, maybe its an LA thing. Let me know the names of those clubs though, I would love to google it k.

I like my movie theater analogy better. Everyone else either needs peanut butter sandwiches or myths about nightclubs...oh and FYI nightclubs are not nearly as glamorous as MTV makes them out to be.

BTW thanks for the PMs about other games, I dl'd a few one got me hooked, ty guys

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Friday, February 10th 2012, 6:31pm

Yes, I have been paid to sit in a theater to make it seem it seem more crowded. I regularly get free tickets to concerts when they are undersold so people will think the group is popular or the group will think that it is a popular venue. I have been given free subscriptions to mmorpg's so they would appear to be populated. Also I have been on cruise ships for nominal fees (less than 5% of the regular price) so the ships would not appear empty. Appearances of success are vital for success without the right amount of buzz and people around it doesn't matter how good a product or game is , that is true for this game too if the 80% of the people who are F2P stopped playing the game would go under in a month.
If you know where to go and keep quiet about it you will find that you can get almost anything for free. If you are willing to go when and where they want. Magazines subscriptions have run out years ago but keep running because they make the majority of their profit off ads not the subscriptions and the more people who get the magazines means they can charge more for the adds.
People pay more to be in the top 10% and people will pay 10 times as much to be in the top 1%. Business knows this so without changing the product by adding the number of people they can get people to pay more just by adding more customers.
Appearances of success are vital to success without them great products often fail. Having the F2P is as vital to this game as the P2P people.

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99

Friday, February 10th 2012, 7:32pm

Enough about hypothetical situations, peanut butter, steaks, and laundry. X_X I'm sure we can use real life examples to better illustrate points.
@Regentego, your movie theater example was a good one. "You guys just keep trying to justify playing a game for hours a day, using their server, using their support, complaining about the game, yet you can't pay $5." <--- I have to counter this with a real life example: have you heard of a library? xD When you think about it, libraries and f2p MMOs are incredibly similar.

At a library you get a library card (like making an account on an online game) for free. This gives you access to all their resources; books, magazines, encyclopedias, dictionaries, CDs, DVDs, wifi, computers, etc (the same as you would have access to all the features of a game once you make an account; zones, instances, arenas, guilds, quests, items, etc). The library content is rented. You can use their resources but they are not yours (the same as accounts and all items contained therein are still property of the game company; they can take away your account or items whenever they want, it's in the ToS). You can sit in a library all day, using their resources, sitting in their chairs, enjoying their A/C or heating, all for free (same as you can use a f2p game as much as you want without having to pay). Can't find something? Have a complaint? Need help? There's a library assistant for that, both paid and volunteer (same as games have customer service and staff, both paid and volunteer). If you want to support the library you can make a donation or join a library support group like Friends Of The Library. However, at no point are you forced to do either. You can use a library as much as you want and it will always be free to you (same as players in f2p games have the option of spending money or remaining f2p).

The slight difference, and perhaps what would be a bit like a resolution to your complaint, is that *most* libraries are funded by the government (federal or local) via taxes. This isn't really comparable to a game subscription though, as a subscription actually forces players to put money down on a game at a monthly rate (comparable to a subscription library, but not a public library). For example, even if a person doesn't pay taxes (either illegally or from exemptions/exclusions), they can still use a public library and everything therein is still free for them to use. Some libraries would even allow illegal immigrants to use their services, no problem.
If there were some kind of funding for a f2p MMO comparable to how libraries are funded by the government, I assume you would feel more at ease? I'm sensing this kind of funding principle is what you're trying to suggest for implementation, since earlier you didn't sound like you were promoting a subscription. However I don't really see how we can implement something comparable when gaming companies are usually private businesses. The p2p people are functioning both as what would be considered a supporting group and tax payer at the same time.

Anyway maybe that gives you and everyone else here something to think about to further the discussion xD

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Friday, February 10th 2012, 7:59pm

Library is not free - we pay for it. It's included in our taxes, so whole example is kind of wrong, it's more P2P then F2P. ;)

And as you can join only library where you live (because that is the one you pay for), it all looks more like P2P.