Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "RoMage;508957"

Library is not free - we pay for it. It's included in our taxes, so whole example is kind of wrong, it's more P2P then F2P.

And as you can join only library where you live (because that is the one you pay for), it all looks more like P2P.

Yeah... and we paid a lot for that library too. That metal, wood and herbs doesn't just grow on trees. Well, wood does, but you still have to gather it. And then there are guild runes and rubies and giuld sto... what? Not that type of library? Darn! Never mind, then.

What?? It is a ROM thread. I can make stupid jokes.

Quoted from "RoMage;508957"

Library is not free - we pay for it. It's included in our taxes, so whole example is kind of wrong, it's more P2P then F2P.

And as you can join only library where you live (because that is the one you pay for), it all looks more like P2P.

Not quite. P2P is people paying a subscription fee on a monthly base, a lot like a bill for using the service. It's also for only people playing the game.
Taxes are typically not monthly (I'm thinking income taxes and W2s and such that you fill out in January). On top of that, taxes are imposed on the majority of people whether or not they stand to benefit from the services it supports. Even if you don't use a library or don't go to school (as in the case of an elderly person) you are still paying taxes.
I can't imagine there ever being a tax-like system for a game >.> Just try walking up to a stranger and saying "You have to pay this company x-amount of money for me to play a game even though you don't play it and have probably never even heard of it " Yeaaahhh... wouldn't work out.
That's why it's not at all like a subscription. There are subscription libraries that function differently than a public library and are more closely comparable to a P2P. At the moment, the funding for a public library is comparable to what Regentego has been suggesting for a few pages; not really a subscription, but something like a donation, even if it's a small amount, that everyone would contribute (in the same way that everyone pays taxes). That's the main reason why I brought it up as an example. I'm interested in whether this is really what he was getting at or not. We have a lot of perspectives being voiced in this thread, but not much in the way of suggestions for improvement. We have all identified a lot of problems, but nothing constructive has really been brought forth beyond the concepts that Regentego already voiced.

EDIT: LOL vwiffo xD Your humor never ceases to amuse me haha

Quoted from "vfwiffo;508961"

Yeah... and we paid a lot for that library too. That metal, wood and herbs doesn't just grow on trees. Well, wood does, but you still have to gather it. And then there are guild runes and rubies and giuld sto... what? Not that type of library? Darn! Never mind, then.

What?? It is a ROM thread. I can make stupid jokes.

Without help from Dio, I mean Eva, we would still have III, now with IV we can die more frequently in instances... Wonder what happens when we upgrade it to Library XII. :p

@EsxCape - Don't get me wrong, I like those literal pictures you guys are creating about (IMHO overpriced) game. Ahh, it's free, like library, but not according to my property tax that is due next week.

I do have to pay it, or they will kick me out from my house. (those things happens in RL... )

Back to game - I created a thread suggesting fixes to make this best F2P game, that will bring more profit to Frogster, but imho current powers are trying to milk everything they can from current game population instead of making it cheaper and more affordable.

You can compare situation with new technology - first year it's new and very expensive, next year is cheaper and as time progress it gets cheaper. OOhhhh, wait, it's opposite, this game get's more and more expensive, even with them selling virtual goods....

ps. What happened to technology that never get's affordable in price?? (ask owners of HD DVD )

I believe DDs are given free non-alcoholic drinks in many bars. This is in everyone's best interest: the bar owner benefits because he makes more sales to the drinkers, who benefit because they can drink and enjoy themselves knowing they have a responsible DD, who benefits because he gets free drinks for the night. It's a win-win-win situation. The DD himself is not directly supporting the bar, but he is indirectly responsible for many more sales. It is very narrow-minded to see the DD as a freeloader, or call him a welfare recipient just because he doesn't drink alcohol. Calling him that to his face, or allowing other customers to do so is also extremely bad business, and will eventually cause him to leave, taking many of his buddies with him.

I struggle to understand how this could be lost on anyone. What's more, this is so fundamental I fail to understand how anyone could make a decent living while ignoring these principles.

Quoted from "YomanROM;508877"

hi, im new here. Is this the "beat Fandreith's walls of text" thread?

pure unadulterated WIN


took me the better part of 5 hours to read her last post...dear god if someone beats her Oo ima have a stroke.

but anyways, you gotta admit eb it is a lot harder now remaining f2p than it was in ch3. 15 minute diamond runs made a constant flow of loot. think the most gch we did in one day was 5 runs and i wanted to kill at least half the ppl in my guild after and didnt log in for a week.

i think ppl would faint if they knew how many..um lets say: packages were sold of a sale item on a weekend.

and i just logged in in NoM. wth

Quoted from "pazuzzu;508975"

pure unadulterated WIN


took me the better part of 5 hours to read her last post...dear god if someone beats her Oo ima have a stroke.

but anyways, you gotta admit eb it is a lot harder now remaining f2p than it was in ch3. 15 minute diamond runs made a constant flow of loot. think the most gch we did in one day was 5 runs and i wanted to kill at least half the ppl in my guild after and didnt log in for a week.

i think ppl would faint if they knew how many..um lets say: packages were sold of a sale item on a weekend.

and i just logged in in NoM. wth

If not prepared the toughest part of being F2p is when starting to push content and drops are scares and boat loads of consumables are used and add on to that wifey rage for playing too much.

Wife: "Lets go to bed babe"
Me:"Be there in a few minutes"
.......Three hours later.......
Wife: "WTF are you still doing up playing your stoopid wizard game"
Me: "Its not a wizard game damn it, and we are close to getting this boss down"
Wife: "I REALLY hate that game"
Me: "Me too"

Not gonna read all pages, just add COD option when wanting to send a CS item to a player.

You can still gift for free, but there should be a 2nd option for COD. Reducing scams would increase revenue on both ends.

So in threat where OP is trying to make it harder for F2P you're making suggestion to make it easier??

I still say, make game more affordable, cheaper then subscription game, and you'll make more money.

Look at iTunes or Google Music.

Quoted from "RoMage;508991"

I still say, make game more affordable, cheaper then subscription game, and you'll make more money.

QFT.

I stopped spending money on this game a long time ago and never intend to spend another dime on it, its just too expensive. More and more people are going this way and the item shop never gets cheaper. Unless some smart person figures out the game is too expensive soon, well.....

My friends and I used to spend about $600 a month between the 7 of us. This continued for nearly 1.5 years. I am now the only one left and I am now p2p. This is not a choice but I refuse to pay a game for horrible customer service and too many bugs that are never fixed. And do not get me started about Siege.

Interesting artical I read yesterday

The dark side of free-to-play gaming

.By Chris Morris | Plugged In – Wed, Feb 8, 2012 2:48 PM EST.. .


On the surface, you can't beat free-to-play games. After all, having access to titles people used to pay $15 a month for without ever having to open your wallet? It sounds too good to be true.

Unfortunately, it often is.

While some free-to-play games live up to the billing, too many take advantage of our inherent desire to save a buck. Instead of paying cash up front (whether it's $60 for a retail game or $1 for an app), you'll often end up paying much, much more on the back end. Or worse, you'll wind up playing a cut-rate version of the game while others have all the bells and whistles. After all, you get what you pay for.

Here are a few things to watch out for:

Free-to-play = Pay to win

If you haven't learned by now that there's no such thing as truly "free" in this world, a free-to-play game will teach you quickly. You'll very likely have to put up with a barrage of advertisements just to get going, but that's an annoyance most people are willing to tolerate in lieu of a lump sum payment.

It's the more subtle fundraising that surprises many, however.

If you want to advance in any real way in a free-to-play game, you'll quickly learn about microtransactions -- small payments for in-game items that help you become more competitive. A buck or two may not seem like much, but over time, you'll find yourself buying more and more items, since not doing so results in your continued death or being left behind by your online friends. Before you know it, you may well have spent more than the game would have cost you had you bought it in the first place.

Disabled features

Just like it's sometimes hard to spot a fake Prada bag, you might be deceived into thinking free-to-play players get the same benefits as those with monthly passes.

Take recent free-to-play conversion DC Universe Online. Folks who opt to pay $15 per month have everything unlocked, but those who opt for the free-to-play version have some serious restrictions. Want an expansion pack? It'll cost you. Planning to create more than 2 characters? Open your wallet. Inventory? You can carry less than half as much as paying players. Auction slots? You get none. You also can't trade items or form a league. In other words, although you can technically play for free, you probably won't really want to play it for very long.

Surprise bills

If you've got a kid playing a free-to-play game on your mobile device, keep a close eye on them -- and your credit card statement.

Similar to microtransactions in other games, these titles make it incredibly easy to buy in-game currency -- often used to eliminate long wait times by instantly refreshing energy used to take turns, for instance -- using real world funds. And often, players can shell out up to $100 for the faux coins without realizing it.

How easy is it for a child to run up a bill? Ask Stephanie Kay, who watched her 8-year old Madison rack up $1,400 in charges while playing "Smurfs Village" on mom's iPad.

Welcome to Jerk Central

Griefers -- players who intentionally and consistently harass other players -- are a problem in every online game, but they really come out of the woodwork when it's free-to-play. It's one thing, after all, to put a lot of money into building a character simply to terrorize other people. But when it doesn't cost them much (if anything), griefers will just create new accounts even after they've been banned by the game's administrators.

They might come looking for the person who got them in trouble in the first place, or they might find someone new to annoy. Either way, it's a breeding ground for gamers with annoying habits.

Land of confusion

When you're playing for free, it probably won't come as a shock that customer service isn't that interested in helping you out. After all, those agents have to get paid themselves, and wasting time on freeloaders doesn't earn anyone anything. Instead, players are often just advised to check the forums if they're confused about game rules or tech issues.

That's easy enough for some core gamers, but new and casual players (who the publisher might be trying to upsell to a paying subscription) often find the forums confusing and/or hostile. And rather than digging deep to find out what they know, they give up entirely.

Here today. Gone tomorrow?

Free-to-play games are a lot like casinos. They depend on a few high-paying customers (called whales) to foot the bill for everyone. If a title can't do that, the game disappears. Just ask players of Lego Universe, which shut its doors last month after failing to "convert a satisfactory number of players to paying subscribers." If you plan on playing a free-to-play game and not spend a dime, don't be surprised if it doesn't last long.


Chaw chawakeePosts: 2Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:23 pm

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idk..rom certainly has its flaws...but it doesnt have hidden costs, a bazillion griefers (trolls yes but they sometimes are entertaining) etc.

in my experience with the customer support it didnt seem to matter that i wasnt a recent "donator" to the frogster fundz. the one time i asked was incredibly helpful, above and beyond their job req's (<3 nytefall, no homo).

main thing with rom is theres a lack of chairs.

Regent, I have a question for you.

Everyone in this game starts out as being a F2P player. Every single one.

How does making it harder to be F2P send a message that new players are as welcome as the older, more established players? Especially in a game that is marketed as a Free To Play game?

There needs to be a period of time between the point at which a new player starts playing the game and the point in which cash shop items start to make the game easier. Otherwise, all you're going to do is drive people who would have eventually used the CS in some capacity out of the game.

Props BJ, after reading thru this whole forum the DD analogy is best yet and right on!!

Quoted from "regentego;509041"

I posed a question and got 100 I hate you ebil go eat peanut butter sandwiches posts.

I'm not familiar with the bar scene, so I'll not argue that one. But playing the victim card here was lame. Very lame. I've respected your opinion, but that just dropped you ten points. If you have a legitimate argument that actually makes sense, and that actually helps everyone, please get to it. All I'm seeing anymore is finger pointing and whining.

Quoted

I touched on this in another post, but it seems to me Frogsters only business model to increase revenue is to impose more costs overall on the paying player base. Given the actual percentage of paying players is roughly 10%, I don't see continual increases as a sustainable way to keep that 10%, its a plan that has gradual negative affects and will change the habits of those of us who buy diamonds.

First off Eb (if I may be so familiar with you), Frogster's entire business model is built around the paying customer (player) base covering all the costs for the company and creating revenue for them. You're taking that notion and morphing it into a complaint, towards what end I'm not sure. Particularly since you've no hard facts to base any of these arguments on. Which leads me to your second point concerning the percentage of players that pay for the game. I, like many others I'm sure, would like to know where you're getting those figures. Without hard evidence they're just made up statistics, and I'm suspicious of any unverified figures as means to justify an agenda.

Quoted

It seems those who are F2P Are quite comfortable and have methods to stay that way. They often brag about it without taking into consideration that someone had to pay for those diamonds they so easily attain for now. Now every other F2P rewards those who financially support their game, while limiting f2p to some extent.

It's true that some F2P players are quite comfortable, though they usually fall within one of two categories: (1) they have attained endgame status and can thus supplement their diamond needs or (2) they're a casual player still working their way through the game. I think you're a bit out of touch with the casual ones, and have mostly experienced the first type, which I'll grant you has most of the arrogant players. And the rewards you mentioned for other F2P games? Those quite often involve having to pay for additional content, classes, or even character slots. I'd rather keep RoM on the model it is now, should I ever decide to return to the game.

Quoted

Now looking forward Frogster is known to go to extremes, mark my words if sales drop you will see the ability to gift diamonds disappear. Do I Think we need that, absolutely not, but Frogster should begin rewarding its small paying player base rather then simply relying on us with no reciprocation. And at the same time need to make things a bit more difficult for the f2p to continue to abuse a very giving f2p model.

Here's where you're presumed percentages are starting to lead your arguments into agendaville. You sound genuinely angry that other players aren't paying what you do, though you readily admit that not everyone makes the same kind of disposable income as you. I'll be honest here, at this point in your post you're just starting to troll.

Quoted

IMO every player at some point should throw the game a little cash, not brag about how they get around the system. I'm frustrated the cost of the game are continually imposed on the most loyal players, the paying ones. So I ask if anyone feels the same way, and how would you place sanctions on the F2P?

I've spent money on RoM, as have most of the people I know in the game. Even the ones who, as you put it, are comfortably F2P now have probably at some point put some money into the game. Hell, I've recommended to new players that they buy between $10 and $20 worth of diamonds and get themselves a mount in the least, aiding themselves and giving some back to the game that they got out of it.

Now it seems a bit strange to me that you're arguing that a few (most likely) exceptionally gifted/lucky players have managed to circumvent buying diamonds to reach their in-game goals should be punished when the vast majority of posts concerning the price of this game resoundly argue that it's too expensive to progress. Even your posts suggest that the price point of diamonds is right on but not the CS prices (which are linked, IMO).

The problem with your argument, as I noted before, is its lack of hard evidence. You propose that maybe 10% of the player base cover the majority of the &#8220;cost&#8221; for the game. I'll counter-propose to you that 10% of the player base pays what I would term excessive amounts for diamonds in one shot while somewhere in the area of 30-40% pay 80+% of the total diamond sales by buying consistently and not all at once. And yes, for diligence sake, I'm pulling those figures off my head, based on experiences I had with other players while playing the game.

I didn't play with the elites who either &#8220;bought&#8221; their way to the top or those once there casually went about making others pay for their positions (that's a class warfare statement that I'm not sure is unwarranted in this discussion). I played with average people, with lives outside of the game that came with jobs and other responsibilities. Average people who still talked about the latest diamond sales and how much they were looking forward to the next one so they could stock up, but also discussed frequently the gold cost of purchasing diamonds from someone with more spending power than they had to supplement their game.

Honestly, I think hurting the F2P players isn't going to help the game. Sanctioning actions that the gaming populace clearly doesn't want doesn't make for a better product, or help the bottom line. Aside from RoM considerations, look at the DRM conflict in gaming. Developers like CD Projekt and resellers like GoG.com have bucked the DRM trend by offering products with no DRM, and they are doing just fine. Look up figures for the Humble Bundle (which features a &#8220;Pay your own price&#8221; option) and see how well it's doing.

No, I don't think they should sanction the F2P players, but then again, I'm one of those guys who think the paying benefits in RoM should be mostly cosmetic in nature.

Quoted from "wolfowl77;509048"

No, I don't think they should sanction the F2P players, but then again, I'm one of those guys who think the paying benefits in RoM should be mostly cosmetic in nature.

If they had cosmetic-only benefits that were more extensive than what they already have, my wallet would be in trouble. xD Pretty much all the money I ever spent on this game has been for cosmetic purposes >.<; In retrospect, I probably should have been buying more useful things like puries...but no one is going to convince me that my character doesn't look badass with purple skin...NO ONEEEE. xD I've spent money on aggregators, coloring, costumes, hair changes, skin changes, you name it and I've done it.
But really, you'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't?) about how much people are willing to drop on cosmetics ._. And unlike other items in this game, cosmetic changes are still pretty decently priced. They add up over time, sure, but they're not going to cost you an arm and a leg for each purchase. I have my eye on a few costumes that haven't been put in the cash shop lately (if at all) and I must say I watch that cash shop like a hawk O.O The second any of those costumes come out you better believe I'll be one of the first to buy it (with diamonds, with gold, whatever I need to have it).
I mean yes, there's still the quality of the game to consider...but really RoM could probably make a fortune on cosmetic items if they really wanted to. >_<;