Runes of Magic US / AU

One last bit from me about the Cash Shop in general.

I would love to see a post here from someone in Frogster EU who can explain and/or clarify the current pricing strategies used in the cash shop. Several have stated that they are no longer buying items from it, as the prices are beyond what they're willing to spend on those items. So I would like to know the following things:

1. Is the increase in prices on most items in the cash shop intended to slow down the current rate of character progression? If not, then why the continued increase in prices, when that strategy resulted in the loss of sales from players who are no longer willing to pay the increased prices?

2. What is the reason certain items are being kept out of the item shop? This includes all X runes, Sigils, Grand Golden Repair hammers, Puri Packages (big and small) and a multitude of other items on both sides of the pond (I think I saw Yoman state that EU doesn't have constant ABL's.)

3. How can we, as a community, help to lower cash shop prices back to previous levels?

I'm a little different from Regent, FYI. I do not believe that pressuring Pay To Play or Free To Play is going to help the current pricing crisis as much as a few simple changes to the cash shop's current format and availability will.

I really disagree on the subject title of the OP post. To increase player happiness and volume of sales for the ROM item shop, management should be encouraging newcomers to stay. Uber items should be held at a high premium, yet everything below that should be easier to acquire: Pets to lvl 40 (why not?), mid level runes easier to get, sufficient as needed as high as tomb or TP. Give the newcomers something to sink their teeth into.

If more people play the game, by offering a combination of entry level pricing for lower damage/ protective stuff, and adding a "multi-collaborative attraction" that would give all players reason to attend on a massive scale, the volume of players would increase and could put the fun back into the game.

I recommend scrapping the current siege attraction altogether until it’s dialed in and only then re-implemented. It should be replaced with "The Gantlet" a feature I detailed in an earlier post (you'll have to search my previous posts).



Weldax on Grimdal

Have a nice day

Quoted from "LadyMacV;509299"

1. Is the increase in prices on most items in the cash shop intended to slow down the current rate of character progression? If not, then why the continued increase in prices, when that strategy resulted in the loss of sales from players who are no longer willing to pay the increased prices?

2. What is the reason certain items are being kept out of the item shop? This includes all X runes, Sigils, Grand Golden Repair hammers, Puri Packages (big and small) and a multitude of other items on both sides of the pond (I think I saw Yoman state that EU doesn't have constant ABL's.)

3. How can we, as a community, help to lower cash shop prices back to previous levels?

1. By comparison to US prices, a lot of EU diamond prices are cheaper. Since you're talking here about character progression I'll just rattle off some prices from the Upgrading category. Some prices are the same both here and there, but others are different. So let's see...
Golden Repair Hammer = 19 d
Expert Weapon Driller = 79 d
Expert Armor Driller = 39 d
Expert Accessory Driller = 39 d
Expert Back Slot Driller = 85 d
Purified Fusion Stone = 39 d
Bind Lifter = 25 d (No ABLs unless it's a sale; when on sale it's same price as US)
Star Jewel - Revelation x10 = 59 d
Moon Jewel - Revelation x10 = 29 d
Sun Jewel - Revelation x10 = 29 d

Then there's a section for packages, so for example, High Level Refining Package is 284 d (star jewel - rev x10, moon jewel - rev x10, sun jewel - rev x10, adv weapon driller, adv armor driller, adv accessory driller, golden repair hammer x10). There's also a PVP Package, Adventurer Package, Refining Starter Package, Promotion Package, Transport Package, Enhanced Experience Package, and Enhanced Talent Package. Check a database for those if you want, I'm not going to list all the contents/prices here. X_X

And for the Ruby Shop (wasn't going to mention this, but changed my mind):
Mighty Phoenix Wings/Holy Angel Wings/Flower Fairy Wings = only 118 rubies each >.<
Master Armor Driller = 55 rubies
Master Weapon Driller = 99 rubies
Master Accessory Driller = 55 rubies
Master Back Slot Driller = 120 rubies
Perfect Star Jewel Revelation = 118 rubies
Perfect Moon Jewel Revelation = 58 rubies
Perfect Sun Jewel Revelation = 58 rubies
Perfect Nebula Jewel = 118 rubies

I glanced briefly at the Phirius Token Shop and from what I saw I think prices are the same as here.

2. No clue? Why are certain items kept out of the US item shop? xD We have stuff the EU doesn't have, they have stuff that US doesn't have. Who knows why. Obviously some stuff would be better to have in there permanently because they'd be making more revenue. If an official statement was made about this, I'm not aware of it.

3. Don't you think it's a bit out of our hands? Even if we were to change our habits, Frogster still calls the shots. If they want to keep things overpriced there's not much we can do about it. The only thing we can change is what we sell diamonds and rubies for to others...and that won't help at this point because even if it's fair for the people you sell to, it's still going to be unfair for the diamond buyers unless Frogster changes something. Try writing a professionally composed letter to Frogster asking them to revisit their dollar to diamond ratio? I don't know xD

In general, in regards to EU pricing, it looks really good to me because I am used to US prices, which I didn't like at all. However, I only have USD...I don't have Euros. So how this actually looks to someone who lives in Europe, I'm not sure. I don't dare compare USD to Euros because of our current RL economic situation. I think 1 dollar is like 0.75 Euros? Well anyway... suppose I just use the Diamond NPCS in-game, then yeah I'd say the prices are looking pretty good to me. Even the cost of recoloring is cheaper (slightly cheaper, but cheaper nevertheless).

Just my opinions from someone who has seen both sides. I'm sure someone who has always been an EU player could offer more insight if any are lurking here

Don't forget the Tax to sell in the United States thats why EU prices generally much cheaper than US prices . Strange to that the Dollar is worth more than the Euro . Limited Edition items, if you ain't Euro You no get limited edition:p

3k diamonds EU = 100 EUR
3k diamonds US = 100 USD
1 EUR = 1.317 USD
bonus depending on payment method and double dias are the same.

puri EU without any sale: 39/3000 = 1.3000 EUR = 1.7121 USD
puri US without any sale: 50/3000= 1.6666 USD = 1.2500 EUR
ive been told it costs 50, so if not, correct me.
on average i'd say were paying the same everywhere, but some items differ and some items are not available at ALL in EU (Recon runes, tier7 "chapter4" runes as as tier7 sale...). X runes have not been available in US until lately
dunno for Australia (Frogster) or Russia(licensed FROM Frogster...) though.

long story short: both sides of the world complain regularly about prices being too high and both are right. just take into account what a whole set of gear upgrades costs, and not even talking about doing stuff tier7, or the amount of money people sink into this game to acquire the gear.

Last sale i'd call great was some of the stuff around christmas and the new extraction stones.

Quoted from "EsxCape;509314"

1. By comparison to US prices, a lot of EU diamond prices are cheaper. Since you're talking here about character progression I'll just rattle off some prices from the Upgrading category. Some prices are the same both here and there, but others are different. So let's see...
Golden Repair Hammer = 19 d
Expert Weapon Driller = 79 d
Expert Armor Driller = 39 d
Expert Accessory Driller = 39 d
Expert Back Slot Driller = 85 d
Purified Fusion Stone = 39 d
Bind Lifter = 25 d (No ABLs unless it's a sale; when on sale it's same price as US)
Star Jewel - Revelation x10 = 59 d
Moon Jewel - Revelation x10 = 29 d
Sun Jewel - Revelation x10 = 29 d

Then there's a section for packages, so for example, High Level Refining Package is 284 d (star jewel - rev x10, moon jewel - rev x10, sun jewel - rev x10, adv weapon driller, adv armor driller, adv accessory driller, golden repair hammer x10). There's also a PVP Package, Adventurer Package, Refining Starter Package, Promotion Package, Transport Package, Enhanced Experience Package, and Enhanced Talent Package. Check a database for those if you want, I'm not going to list all the contents/prices here. X_X

And for the Ruby Shop (wasn't going to mention this, but changed my mind):
Mighty Phoenix Wings/Holy Angel Wings/Flower Fairy Wings = only 118 rubies each >.<
Master Armor Driller = 55 rubies
Master Weapon Driller = 99 rubies
Master Accessory Driller = 55 rubies
Master Back Slot Driller = 120 rubies
Perfect Star Jewel Revelation = 118 rubies
Perfect Moon Jewel Revelation = 58 rubies
Perfect Sun Jewel Revelation = 58 rubies
Perfect Nebula Jewel = 118 rubies

I glanced briefly at the Phirius Token Shop and from what I saw I think prices are the same as here.

Although the packages are the same for the amount of diamonds you get, the Euro is currently worth more than our Dollar is. I think by about 30 cents to the dollar, although the rate varies from day to day. At first glance, it may look like the EU is paying a lower price per item, but it is costing them more per diamond to purchase diamonds.

I don't know if that completely makes up for the difference in pricing on two different sides of the pond, but it's a large chunk of it.

Quoted

2. No clue? Why are certain items kept out of the US item shop? xD We have stuff the EU doesn't have, they have stuff that US doesn't have. Who knows why. Obviously some stuff would be better to have in there permanently because they'd be making more revenue. If an official statement was made about this, I'm not aware of it.

That's why I asked the question. To me, it makes no sense, fiscally or otherwise, to be keeping players from purchasing items that are supposed to be available for game play.

Quoted

3. Don't you think it's a bit out of our hands? Even if we were to change our habits, Frogster still calls the shots. If they want to keep things overpriced there's not much we can do about it. The only thing we can change is what we sell diamonds and rubies for to others...and that won't help at this point because even if it's fair for the people you sell to, it's still going to be unfair for the diamond buyers unless Frogster changes something. Try writing a professionally composed letter to Frogster asking them to revisit their dollar to diamond ratio? I don't know xD

Do I think it's out of my hands? Absolutely not. I've already displayed why their current sales strategy is failing to draw in business they would have otherwise had. They have to change the direction the cash shop is taking if they don't want to lose more potential business. The cash shop is something that is under their direct control, and not subject to Runewaker's approval.

By offering a wide range and variety of items in addition to catering to both the small spender and the large spender, they stand to make far more profit in both the short term and the long run than under their current system. They can improve the variety by not restricting which items are available, and they can appease the player base's desire to lower diamond prices per item by supplementing their cash flow with items not currently available for sale. Continuing to overprice their items is only going to drive sales down further- why would they do that when a little restructuring is all that's needed to bring in more revenue?

There is also the potential for Frogster to be able to get faster fixes to their clients, which also helps to retain existing business. If Frogster is able to keep Runewaker in the black, they can then approach them to say: "Hey, we sold X amount of X items this month, which is X amount more than last month. We believe the increase in the sales of X item is related to the content in (insert Siege War, instance name, crafting, etc. here), but in order to continue the increase in sales, we need X, Y, and Z in that content fixed pronto."

Quoted from "regentego;509153"

OMG what I posted is what they teach in high school economics, if that's all you have to contribute then go drink some more of the Kool-Aid. Lol you just schooled me bwahahaha...back to another 14 hours of playing for you.

I seriously have to put your statement as my sig, hell may be my desktop wallpaper! Do you have any proof to back that up...lol!

So instead of providing a proper reply, you decided to throw a couple of punches instead. Very mature.

Nearly everyone in this thread has been putting the effort into finding a suitable equilibrium in which f2p and p2p can come to a slightly more stable state.

People have even pointed out flaws and you are constantly bashing them because you refuse to listen to other people's ideas.

Quoted from "LadyMacV;509356"

Do I think it's out of my hands? Absolutely not. I've already displayed why their current sales strategy is failing to draw in business they would have otherwise had. They have to change the direction the cash shop is taking if they don't want to lose more potential business. The cash shop is something that is under their direct control, and not subject to Runewaker's approval.

By offering a wide range and variety of items in addition to catering to both the small spender and the large spender, they stand to make far more profit in both the short term and the long run than under their current system. They can improve the variety by not restricting which items are available, and they can appease the player base's desire to lower diamond prices per item by supplementing their cash flow with items not currently available for sale. Continuing to overprice their items is only going to drive sales down further- why would they do that when a little restructuring is all that's needed to bring in more revenue?

There is also the potential for Frogster to be able to get faster fixes to their clients, which also helps to retain existing business. If Frogster is able to keep Runewaker in the black, they can then approach them to say: "Hey, we sold X amount of X items this month, which is X amount more than last month. We believe the increase in the sales of X item is related to the content in (insert Siege War, instance name, crafting, etc. here), but in order to continue the increase in sales, we need X, Y, and Z in that content fixed pronto."

The problem is, that's the stuff that's been said for a long time now. Their customers (people like you, among others) have been very specific about what can be done that would greatly benefit them as a company. We tell them this all the time. But it doesn't really qualify as something we do that helps, since even though we have constructed these scenarios/statistics/models for them, they haven't actually done anything. They don't take our words to heart. In short of one of us buying up stocks to become the biggest shareholder and then telling them "I OWN YOU, NOW DO THIS" I don't know if we all can actually come together to make a positive change. EDIT: Wait, do we actually have someone in the community rich enough to do this? rofl

Bottom line is that Frogster pulls the strings and decides what they put in the cash shop and how to price it. It can be related to feedback from customers, but on the other hand it dosn't really have to. They can completely ignore us if they want and I don't see what there is we can do about it.
I agree with you that a few changes could go a long way to increase their revenue, and I'm in favor of most of these changes. The potential is surely there. But Frogster has not taken any initiative, they haven't shown any sign of making these changes, despite everything that has been said by the players for years now, and if they choose to continue down this path and see diminishing returns over time, then it's on them and more or less out of our hands.

"Continuing to overprice their items is only going to drive sales down further- why would they do that when a little restructuring is all that's needed to bring in more revenue?"
^ But they already have been doing this for quite some time. It's an excellent question and it would be great if Frogster could actually answer it. Afterall, I'm sure everyone is as interested as I am as to why they have ignored every shred of common sense that has been presented to them >.>

Ebilone, frogster already has a plan. They do not care what you think or what we think. Your entire tirade is worthless. They will not tell us their plan, either. As for your F2P's playing several hours of the day; that is only a very small minority. Most of us have moved on and just do our dailies, if that. Because I am laid off of my full time job, I have tons of time. Even still, I only play about 1 hour a day. The game is not even worth playing for free anymore and you foolishly still spend a small fortune on it.

They failed to keep the game is good condition. That is why sales are down. If you wanted to act all high and mighty at the F2P back when the game was worth playing several hours a day, then I would see your point. They took our money and wasted it instead of fixing the game. Now that the game has fallen apart, we see no reason to give them money for a bad game. You, however, are still giving them money.

That qualifies you as insane. Insanity can be construed as continuing to perform the same action over and over, expecting different results. You continue to hand frogster tons of money, even though the game continues to go downhill. you expect them to get better when history shows the exact opposite.

When the game was good, myself and many others did give them money, some of us signifigant amounts. You want us to pay them for a service that is no longer worth paying for. If it was not for my friends, I would not play at all.

You do not act like a player. Instead, you act like a frogster employee trying to boost your own paycheck. You are trying to sell an inferior product and are being irritable when a customer tells you no. I know you are a player, having fought you in siege many months ago, back when the game worked.

If frogster wants our business back, then they need to make a product worth paying for. They used to have such a product, but they did not take care of it when we were paying for it.

Quoted from "regentego;509392"

I have asked other people to lay it out like a business, without their theories or personal opinion. Never get emotionally involved with a plan. Sort of like saying "diamond prices are high because the sales are awesome."

Bullet points, not walls of fictional text. Thanks for jumping in though, you are the biggest user of this game, you have used their support played an average of 14 hours a day but can't even throw them $5. You have taken advantage of the system.

That is getting emotionally involved.

It isn't just personal opinion, it is supported with the weekly/weekend sales for the past 6 months. I felt that the sales in the past few months were too good and kept diamonds on very high demand.

I don't need to lie to anyone about how I play a game. I refuse to play for any game. I will gladly use other people's money to play a game as well ... because there is nothing wrong with it. They get the enjoyment that I do when I give them very expensive gear that people like you only have a few hours a day to play and refuse to spend those 4 hours to do mini-games, dailies and to farm their stats.

Any game that is based so strongly on the f2p player-base will die out if a subscription is introduced. That is fact.

If you don't want to do your dailies, you don't want to farm your own stats, you don't want to farm your mini-games for you. You don't want to farm your own instrument material, you don't want to farm your own materials for consumables. Guess what? People like me will do ALL of that and buy your diamonds in exchange.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't played that much in the past month (due to exams, yay, I am finally an Engineer) ... but as much as I would like to admit it, this game will die if the players don't start working together.

Frogster can only do so much to improve the game-play on your own server. I said this a few months ago, be the change you want to see on your server. It takes only one person to convince 50 people to start running end-game ... you just need to push for it.

Quoted from "regentego;509392"

I have asked other people to lay it out like a business, without their theories or personal opinion. Never get emotionally involved with a plan. Sort of like saying "diamond prices are high because the sales are awesome."

Bullet points, not walls of fictional text. Thanks for jumping in though, you are the biggest user of this game, you have used their support played an average of 14 hours a day but can't even throw them $5. You have taken advantage of the system.

This is really sad. Completely misses the point that itis not the size of the subscription that matters. It doesn't matter if it was 5 cents or 50 dollars, it is the fact that it is a subscription that matters. People want to spend their money for a game when they feel like and on what they want at that minute not when someone else tells them.
People who would refuse to spend $1 a month on a subscription that would include everything are paying $100 on diamonds when a new area opens. It doesn't make sense but that is the way that most people think and act. That is why this game is still going after years and why the other subscription based games have failed and are now going to this plan.

Quoted from "regentego;509092"

Sales director: We have 20,000 player, of which 5% pay an average ticket of $20 per month, 7% pay an average of $10 once every two months.

CFO: So 2,400 people are paying, how do we get the other 17,600 to pay?

Sales: well sir there are always going to be people who won't pay.

CFO: I want that number up to 20% by end of quarter and I want a proposal on my desk next week detailing how we are going to do it. We have Three games in the pipeline, we already had to shut down FA if we can't turn this around we will shut them down entirely.

Sales: Yes sir.

See BJ that's real life they are not talking about unicorns and how blessed they are to have all these F2P, they want cold hard cash, and as much of it as possible. Rainbows lollipops and F2P players don't pay the bills.

Well, I'd say the best way to get that number up is by making paying seem "worth it" to those players. Many of those currently F2P players that you seems to vilify so much were once paying customers who decided that the game is no longer worth their money. Whether it was because of a missing chest, their lack of customer support, CS prices seeming too high, siege not working, memories of the diamond fiasco, etc - they have decided that all incentive for paying real money on the game is gone.

So there, my proposal would be to address these issues so that people want to spend money on the game again. The only thing I see your $5/month doing is making all those now F2P players leave the game (which might be the real reason for your plan, judging by what your F2P strawman says and the letter it wrote). But yeah, have them go with your plan, and play your newly created MMORPG...minus the MM part.

In the end I see forcing people to pay $5 each month leading to this conversation:

Sales: I have good news and bad news about that new payment plan we implemented.

CFO: Alright, let me hear it

Sales: Good - We now have 100% of players paying regularly!
Bad - That percentage is 1 out of 1 active players, Ebilone

btw, anyone remember when iceblade was the biggest problem this game had? Those were the days, lol

Quoted from "EsxCape;509391"

The problem is, that's the stuff that's been said for a long time now. Their customers (people like you, among others) have been very specific about what can be done that would greatly benefit them as a company. We tell them this all the time. But it doesn't really qualify as something we do that helps, since even though we have constructed these scenarios/statistics/models for them, they haven't actually done anything. They don't take our words to heart. In short of one of us buying up stocks to become the biggest shareholder and then telling them "I OWN YOU, NOW DO THIS" I don't know if we all can actually come together to make a positive change. EDIT: Wait, do we actually have someone in the community rich enough to do this? rofl

Well. At least in my own personal experience, over the last few months, that hasn't quite been true.

I'm sure that you, like the rest of the community, noticed it when FEU released the random attribute stones and the stone that allows us to strip a selected stat off a piece of gear.

Someone had to take time to code that. Someone had to take time to make the graphic icon for it. Someone had to test it across every item available in the game in order to implement it.

I'd suggested it some time back. I posted that in a gear modification game like this one, it made no sense for me not to be able to take a single stat off a piece of gear. Not only did Frogster listen, but Runewaker did too. And that isn't the only thing they've listened to me about either. Granted, I have no way of knowing if it was my feedback that resulted in the creation of those stones or if it was something that had been in the works for a while.... but it goes against the old business model, where you had to wait for the attribute purification stones to go on sale and/or use a puri, plus losing the gear. In short, they lost a little cash in the short term on those more expensive items...

But they sold a ton of diamonds with the introduction of those two items. I know because all of a sudden, Reni had diamond buyers again.

It also shows that Frogster and Runewaker are becoming willing to make changes to the game, whereas before they simply coasted on adding new instances with new gear.

I get where you're coming from. I was around for it. That period of time in which the players' suggestions fell on deaf ears, dumb eyes and lip service. I also watched how hard this community pushed to get the GCD change reversed. It took some time... and it was mostly reversed, with a damage/healing boost for the casters it affected.

Runewaker and Frogster ARE listening now. They weren't for a long time, but they are now. Which is precisely why we need to keep giving them feedback... because if we stop, we can never expect anything to change. I'm not going to give up based on the past, not when there's finally light at the end of what was a very long tunnel. It just isn't who I am.

Quoted

Bottom line is that Frogster pulls the strings and decides what they put in the cash shop and how to price it. It can be related to feedback from customers, but on the other hand it dosn't really have to. They can completely ignore us if they want and I don't see what there is we can do about it.

1. You can tell them you aren't happy.
2. You can tell them why you aren't happy.
3. You can show them how they can make you happy.

^That's what you do. If you come from the viewpoint that it'll never happen because the other guy isn't willing to listen, but didn't even bother to tell the other guy how you felt or what you thought needed to be done in order to come to a compromise or solution, you have only yourself to blame for things not turning out (at least somewhat) the way you want them to be.

Quoted

I agree with you that a few changes could go a long way to increase their revenue, and I'm in favor of most of these changes. The potential is surely there. But Frogster has not taken any initiative, they haven't shown any sign of making these changes, despite everything that has been said by the players for years now, and if they choose to continue down this path and see diminishing returns over time, then it's on them and more or less out of our hands.

"Continuing to overprice their items is only going to drive sales down further- why would they do that when a little restructuring is all that's needed to bring in more revenue?"
^ But they already have been doing this for quite some time. It's an excellent question and it would be great if Frogster could actually answer it. Afterall, I'm sure everyone is as interested as I am as to why they have ignored every shred of common sense that has been presented to them >.>

Please see the first part of this post about Frogster not taking initiative. We're not dealing with the American team anymore (at least, not in any major capacity). By and large, they seem to have been the ones who were causing the communication issues between Runewaker and the US servers. Because EU has shown initiative when it comes to changing the cash shop. They even got rid of the gashas and gave us a permanent backpack slot, plus 16 jewels not in a gasha form... they are making changes to what they can. The current pricing is something they can change to benefit everyone.

I don't expect the changes I suggested to be implemented right away, or all at once. It's going to take time (and probably some persuading of the bean counters that be) in order for Frogster to determine if they are any good in a real-life business situation. But I do expect them to keep making changes to suit the client base, as they've demonstrated they have the capability to do so.