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1

Wednesday, February 22nd 2012, 4:21pm

New Engine

**** Message to CM's : This thread is duplicate from the constructive suggestion, but Also I would like to post it as a discussion, please close this thread in the constructive feedback section if you wish to so by forum regulaitons, not in the discussion area, thanks.****

In order to stay competitive in 2012 Frogster should consider re-touching this wonderful game.

But before I give out arguments why, lets look at what runes of magic has to offer.

Runes Of Magic features :

There's too many features, I don't even think i can name them all but;

- Awesome crafting system.
- Houses, maids, furnitures and related bonuses.
- Gearing system (Tons of ways to get gear).
- Skills and classes becoming more balanced. (Great effort done by Devs)
- Minigames.
- Tons of quests, instances, world instances and world bosses.
- Extendable environment (New content added regularly)
- Equipment (Aggregation), character and mount customization.
- Humongous open world to explore.
- Game is still challenging even at end-game.
- Seasonal events with nice prizes, in-game/forums/facebook contests.
- Free to play. (It is possible to get at top ranks without paying a single dollar, even if it is time consuming).
- Awesome siege pvp concept (excluding the lag and the crash, but i'll get onto that later).
- Pvp arena and mini-games.
- Tradable in-game currency with premium currency (may have some risks depending on situation)
- Item shop offers alot of items. (Some may say it's pay to win to some point, but I have seen ALOT worse (scarlet legacy)).

I could keep on going but that's all I can think of now and anyways I do want to get to the point of this thread.

In so far, having exprience many different mmorpg (massively multiplayed rage producing geeks), ROM has the most and best features that any games offers.

Now the reason why I quit ROM hence the cons :
- CRASHES!!!!!!
- crashes
- crashes
and
- critical error, um crash...

Not just in siege but everywhere, all the times, about 30-40 times a day when I used to play.

There are tons of threads related to game crash or critical errors on the forums, therefore this issue obviously can't and isn't being ignored as per some CM says they are investigating what is causing the crashes.

Being a former technical support for a major ISP, when 2 or more clients have the same issue repeatedly in the same conditions, investigation on our side was required, e.g. 2 customers nearby had internet shortage at the same time, the node was malfunctionning and we had to send a repair technician.

Hence the cause of the crashes is in the game itself. Now knowing what are the conditions in order for the game to crash is mostly when the game has to many objects to load at same time, and or peaks when the amount of players reaches critical point in the same area.

This happens to every one of us, even if you have the Intel I9834774 core with 1973918391783 cores and 1028019809 gigs of ram with the latest ZTX 23213 supercooled at 2 degree kelvin display device using drivers dated from the year 2056.

So it seems more a massive compatibility issue from the ENGINE, or graphic engine more likely.

It is not impossible for a game to renew the graphic engine as some other games done it quite well actually (Aion, entropia universe)

The cry engine 2 was used to enhance the graphical textures and rendering. Less lag because the engine is to be more compatible for different platforms, hence different pc setups as well. Transition is possible to be done in a timely manner as it was done already by other games. This would also fix all the crashing issue every is experiencing.

Given all ROM's features has to give and add the CRYTEK engine, this game could be potentially the best 1 ever.

Hopefully this message doesn't fall on deaf ears, or in this case, blind eyes... Because I just hope for the best :)

Cheers!
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2

Wednesday, February 22nd 2012, 4:54pm

+1 Couldn't agree more.
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3

Wednesday, February 22nd 2012, 5:31pm

What we need is RoM2
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Wednesday, February 22nd 2012, 5:33pm

I can agree with a lot of what you say except one. Class balancing has been known to kill a game faster than a major hard drive crash. Yes some of the classes/skills need tweeking, but major and class destroying balancing is not needed at all. All taht is needed is for people to LEARN the classes, and figure out what is needed to defeat each class. Other wise this game is perfect.

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Wednesday, February 22nd 2012, 6:54pm

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;512023"

I can agree with a lot of what you say except one. Class balancing has been known to kill a game faster than a major hard drive crash. Yes some of the classes/skills need tweeking, but major and class destroying balancing is not needed at all. All taht is needed is for people to LEARN the classes, and figure out what is needed to defeat each class. Other wise this game is perfect.


perfect... if they'd get seige to work and get the game to be mroe stable =\
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6

Thursday, February 23rd 2012, 1:57am

Quoted from "Melanee;512000"


Hopefully this message doesn't fall on deaf ears, or in this case, blind eyes... Because I just hope for the best :)

Cheers!


That is what all of us hope for, but unlikely.
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7

Thursday, February 23rd 2012, 3:21am

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;512023"

I can agree with a lot of what you say except one. Class balancing has been known to kill a game faster than a major hard drive crash. Yes some of the classes/skills need tweeking, but major and class destroying balancing is not needed at all. All taht is needed is for people to LEARN the classes, and figure out what is needed to defeat each class. Other wise this game is perfect.


Runewaker's openly stated that they will never be finished balancing the classes in this game. So here's how that goes:

Forums: Class X is overpowered.
Runewaker: *Nerfs All Classes*
Forums: NO! No nerf bat!
Runewaker: *Overpowers 2 classes while upping damage of the rest*
Forums: Now X and X are overpowered!
Runewaker: *Balances all classes with nerf bat*

Etc. Ad Nauseum. It isn't going to change.

Now to the OP:

I myself started a fairly long thread on why Runewaker needed to upgrade their game engine a while back, but sadly it got lost when the current forum mods decided the old threads weren't necessary. Anyway, these are the primary reasons why Runewaker is going to refuse to upgrade to a different engine:

1. They coded and are currently running off their own self-made engines. Upgrading to a new engine would mean learning an entirely different coding language.

2. Expense: Licensing of an engine like the Unreal 3 engine can run upwards of $500,000 (although depending on how negotiations at the table go, those costs can typically be reduced to around $150,000-$200,000 for a skilled negotiator). Runewaker currently cannot get another company to publish their future games, which does not speak well to the bank that has to fund the expenditure (cause the cash shop from this game is NOT going to cover that kind of expense plus all their other fixed costs.) Granted the Unreal 3 engine is probably beyond Runewaker's abilities to code in either graphically or otherwise, as it requires an artist that knows how to draw without raising the poly count to an astronomical amount.

3. The same people that did the coding for the areas that currently are causing the majority of in-game crashes (Dalanis and Varanas) are not at the company anymore, which would require both the graphics and programming department to go back over coding they didn't write. It's like trying to learn French as a native language when you have English there already, and they would likely only make things worse.
In a world of black, white, and grey... I'd be bright friggin' purple. M/P on Reni.

8

Thursday, February 23rd 2012, 4:06am

Quoted from "LadyMacV;512174"

snip
1. They coded and are currently running off their own self-made engines. Upgrading to a new engine would mean learning an entirely different coding language.
snip

My understanding is that the game engine was NOT coded by Runewaker, but was built upon some 'borrowed' client-to-client game engine from the 1990s, with only some client-to-server verification layered on top.

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9

Thursday, February 23rd 2012, 11:18am

New engine = learn new coding language = bad = bs = man up and be a programmer and stop b*tching. A company needs to innovate, change and adapt to survive if this game is going to be viable in another 3 years its going to have a tough time if its still using a calculator as a game engine. Heck all I want is a stable game even if the characters look like stick man.

just my 2 cents

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Thursday, February 23rd 2012, 9:15pm

Quoted from "Whippingboy;512190"

My understanding is that the game engine was NOT coded by Runewaker, but was built upon some 'borrowed' client-to-client game engine from the 1990s, with only some client-to-server verification layered on top.


Well... not according to Runewaker, anyway.

"About Runewaker Entertainment Ltd.Runewaker Entertainment was founded in August of 2004, with headquarters located in Taichung, Taiwan. The founding members were all very experienced in the field and decided to come together to pursue their dream. Currently Runewaker employs over 100 highly skilled programmers, designers and artists and is constantly expanding. Runewaker specializes in making massively multiplayer online role playing games (MMORPG). The company has built their own engine from scratch which rivals some of the best available on the market."

That quote is from an article linked on Runewaker.com, you can see it here: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressrelea…es_of_Magic.php

Either Runewaker lied, or that GM didn't have their facts straight... take your pick.

Oh, and Gary- I get where you're coming from, but only to a point. If Runewaker can't even fix the majority of their own coding issues, there's a snowball's chance in hell of them fixing someone else's coding language.
In a world of black, white, and grey... I'd be bright friggin' purple. M/P on Reni.

11

Thursday, February 23rd 2012, 10:05pm

I don't see the point in making a new engine when Runewaker clearly don't have the ability or skill to fix this one. Basically, I'd be happy that this engine hasn't fallen apart, oh wait......

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Friday, February 24th 2012, 2:57am

Quoted from "UncleMart;512487"

I don't see the point in making a new engine when Runewaker clearly don't have the ability or skill to fix this one. Basically, I'd be happy that this engine hasn't fallen apart, oh wait......



Well the odds of RoM getting a new Engine are about NIL considering they are using the same one (Rena) for their new game.
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Friday, February 24th 2012, 7:09pm

Quoted from "UncleMart;512487"

I don't see the point in making a new engine when Runewaker clearly don't have the ability or skill to fix this one. Basically, I'd be happy that this engine hasn't fallen apart, oh wait......


This is the tragic story of Runes of Magic. As you know there are bugs in this game which have existed since beta. SW has been in beta for years, but will never get out of it due to it being managed by an unqualified development team. If anyone wants to make a case for why it's a bad idea to outsource their developers, Runewaker gives you all you need to see.

Frogster probably thinks they're making the best out of a bad situation, but they're also flawed. I'm sure that for any given moment they're maximizing their profits, but they need to think beyond that scope. The corporate policy of gauging the high rollers with ridiculous prices will only lead to the high rollers having no one to play with, thus a low player base, and their eventual leaving the game as well.

Frogster could've had myself and several other players for hundreds of dollars. Instead, they got frustrated players looking to buy diamonds off of other players, an eventual demise... and now they have nothing. Looking back in restrospect I think this is probably one of the best things that ever happened to me. If I wasn't forced to leave, I surely wouldn't have. Only after leaving did I realize how much time I wasted here, and how much more of my life I have now.
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14

Friday, February 24th 2012, 8:04pm

Quoted from "Collusion;512765"

Only after leaving did I realize how much time I wasted here, and how much more of my life I have now.
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15

Friday, February 24th 2012, 9:40pm

The thing that really kind of sticks in my craw about this whole thing is that Frogster, albeit the entire company is currently being phased out into Gameforge, has access to the Unreal 3 engine (which could run ROM with much better finesse than Runewaker's current engine.)
In a world of black, white, and grey... I'd be bright friggin' purple. M/P on Reni.

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Friday, February 24th 2012, 10:17pm

Quoted from "LadyMacV;512804"

The thing that really kind of sticks in my craw about this whole thing is that Frogster, albeit the entire company is currently being phased out into Gameforge, has access to the Unreal 3 engine (which could run ROM with much better finesse than Runewaker's current engine.)

Frogster has no control over the game engine used in the game. That is the sole responsibility of Runewaker. Not sure what happened but the quality of the game started to drop just after Thunderhoof Hills was released (Dalanis lagfest anyone). The only thing that Frogster cna do is let Runewaker know about our complaints and cross their fingers hoping that they didn't fall on deaf ears or worse yet a major misscomunication due to the language barrier. Yes using a new engine might solve the problems, but that would mean a complete rework of the game and then taking down what is current, plus attempting to recreate god knows how many characters. The logistics of this would be inhuman. Yes it could be done, but do we as the players want to risk losing everything we worked for just for a possible fix??

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Saturday, February 25th 2012, 3:48am

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;512821"

Frogster has no control over the game engine used in the game. That is the sole responsibility of Runewaker. Not sure what happened but the quality of the game started to drop just after Thunderhoof Hills was released (Dalanis lagfest anyone). The only thing that Frogster cna do is let Runewaker know about our complaints and cross their fingers hoping that they didn't fall on deaf ears or worse yet a major misscomunication due to the language barrier. Yes using a new engine might solve the problems, but that would mean a complete rework of the game and then taking down what is current, plus attempting to recreate god knows how many characters. The logistics of this would be inhuman. Yes it could be done, but do we as the players want to risk losing everything we worked for just for a possible fix??


You are correct that Frogster has no control over the game engine being used. They've got very limited control over anything anymore. Gameforge, however, has their own programming department and is more than happy to "discontinue products that have failed to meet growth expectations." They cut Hellbreed and Mythos out already, despite having contracts with those developers, and Runewaker cannot keep the game functional without a publisher. There is, in all likelihood, not much stopping Gameforge from moving Runes onto the Unreal 3 engine Frogster had access to, as the contract agreement they signed with Runewaker looked a lot different from the one Frogster did. They're not happy with them as it is. "The company is also currently exploring co-publishing options."

In all honesty, I think this game is about to go down the drain thanks to a lack of financial improvement in at least one of the parent companies. We'll see come March-April when the new financial quarter starts.
In a world of black, white, and grey... I'd be bright friggin' purple. M/P on Reni.

18

Saturday, February 25th 2012, 4:16am

Quoted from "grimoru;512778"

Why still posting on the forums?


and why are you still posting on forums?
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19

Monday, February 27th 2012, 11:10pm

once you realize all of ROM is still in beta and not just SW it all starts to make sense =)
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20

Tuesday, February 28th 2012, 12:08am

I would love to see stability increase. I love this game and my friends and guildies that I play with, however the crashing is starting to drive me a bit up the wall. I can barely go into central plaza without crashing now :( I have a ati hd6850, i5 goodies and only 4gb of ram but that should run one client fine. Why is it over patch times that my frames are degrading and I'm crashing far more often than I used to when Dal was released etc. I've gotten to the point where every time I log my char I just open a new client.

+1 to fixing the stability/crashing/low fps and I hope they're reading :)