Runes of Magic US / AU

I guess I'll throw in my two cents.

I am not strictly a F2P player, I'll drop a couple bucks into the game when I can afford it and there is something in the item shop that I omgmusthavenao. I haven't dropped more than 60 bucks in this game total and i am by no means endgame or super geared (Mostly my own fault, but RoM's recent slip in quality didn't help it either) so i understand what its like to play with and without the benefits of the item shop.

What PTW has to realize is they already have a massive advantage over those who don't drop any money into the game. Imagine P2Pers, that diamonds were now bound and the only way to get new gear was to wait for the next patch so all the old gear goes on the AH at ridiculously high prices. Ohh and any and all gold earned from anything that required Diamonds is now gone. Thats kinda what being F2P is like, maybe not that extreme, but we don't have the luxury of opening our wallets and buying our way to the top, we have to work pretty damn hard at what we do and even then most of the time we can't come close to competing.

I do understand that P2P is the lifeblood of the game, without them nobody would get paid, but what you get in return is the ability to have an Easymode option for gameplaying. The more you invest, the bigger the easy button.

Pay to Play has more than enough benefits over the free to play players. I'd rather see a few more things in the Token shop personally, than give already overpowerd players another advantage over F2P

And think of this players, would you really want to play a game, advertized as free to play, where the only way you can be halfway decent is by dropping hundreds of dollars into the game? Imagine if you started playing a new MMO only to find that you are so limited in what you can and can't do and you're unable to make real progress for months, would you continue to play it?

In RoMs current state it feels and looks more like a Private server than an Official server run by a Major Corporation. Small population/community, usually same people posting on forums are usually the only ones playing the game... There is barely any "New" blood coming to RoM, few continue to play longterm once they start, many old rom'ers are moving on with life. It's 2012 times have changed and time will not slow down for RoM to catch up, its parent company already knows it and may or may not "cater" to its small diehard paying community.

P2P, PTW, F2P anyone can choose to be either...if people weren't so greedy and stuck up only interested in things that directly benefit themselves maybe RoM' might be better. Try and attract more "New" blood to the game, have more respect for people ingame, the more people make it harder for New players the less benefits everyone will see.

IMO maybe locking rubys is the answer. You can only get them by spending dias. Thus only someone that actually bought diamonds can have them. Extra backpack space or bank space isnt exactly power. And you want a guaranteed + on that weapon? Pay the cash for that ability. 4th drilling slot on gear/weapon? Not exactly OP. Honestly idk why rubys werent locked in the beginning. They have diamonds rubys and tokens as currency yet all are available to be obtained by f2p players and they still feel entitled to them.

It's like someone on food stamps arguing that the loacl steakhouse should take the EBT card because food is food. No, those that have a job and choose to spend their cash on a steak after a hard days work deserve to eat that steak. Not someone who doesnt contribute to society, you can also have food, but ramen noodles and eggs are more up your alley. The f2p feels entitled in this game too much.

Also, I believe the EU side already has some type of rewrds program (unsure), somaybe it is in our future anyways.

Quoted from "dexhunterz;515798"

IMO maybe locking rubys is the answer. You can only get them by spending dias False, you get 1 ruby when you spend tokens. Thus only someone that actually bought diamonds can have them. Extra backpack space or bank space isnt exactly power. And you want a guaranteed + on that weapon? Pay the cash for that ability. 4th drilling slot on gear/weapon? Not exactly OP. Honestly idk why rubys werent locked in the beginning. They have diamonds rubys and tokens as currency yet all are available to be obtained by f2p players and they still feel entitled to them. False, F2P doesn't feel entitled to anything, we are just saying that P2P doesn't need an even BIGGER boost than it does. In Example, the 1% of society that controls everything. Do you want to give THEM even MORE power to make life harder for you?

It's like someone on food stamps arguing that the loacl steakhouse should take the EBT card because food is food. No, those that have a job and choose to spend their cash on a steak after a hard days work deserve to eat that steak. Not someone who doesnt contribute to society, you can also have food, but ramen noodles and eggs are more up your alley. The f2p feels entitled in this game too much. False again.

Also, I believe the EU side already has some type of rewrds program (unsure), somaybe it is in our future anyways.

Replies in bold.

I will finaly stick my 2 cents worth in here. Most P2P people look down on the F2P people with cold uncaring eyes. They really could care less if those that don't sink massive ammounts og RL money into the game get anywhere at all. Slowly though that semintality is changingbut there are still some moneygrubbing holdouts that refuse to buckle and they are the ones that ruin the game for the rest of the crowd. Yes I have been know to drop a couple hundred dollars on RoM during diamond sales, but I am by no means an "EndGamer". I prefer to assist others even if they pass me by. I play RoM to have fun but it seems the number of people with my ideals has dropped to the point where having fun and work are colliding at a pace that rivals the best nascar crashes.
Perks for people that pay for diamonds?? I might have agreed on that when i first started RoM but not now. We really do not need the haves getting even further beyond reach of the F2P people. People complained when i suggested armor packs in the item shop, and yet now someone is suggestiing that the P2W crowd get perks to leave the F2P crowd in the dust. Well no thank you I want nothing to do with that at alla nd I feel it is a very bad idea.
L:ike the old saying goes "You can't have your cake and eat it too." that goes for gaming also.

I like the idea posted earlier about dia buyers getting a discount like 5% off everything in dia shop or whatever % it was. Yes I'm a dia buyer when they're on sale, I use my Zeevex tokens, but I'm not hardcore like those who pump into RoM about $1k per month.

Someone who understands any of the foreign languages should totally check out all the other versions of RoM & see how everyone's CS operates & what not as well as if they even have similar issues like our p2p vs f2p issues... I think only Frogster's version of Radiant Arcana is called RoM...... everyone else's version is called the real name Radiant Arcana or Mystic Stone or Runes of Might, or whatever. Something tells me that Frogster's model is a huge fail but I have no idea coz I don't understand any of their forums, let alone even think about downloading their version & trying to play it lol.

Quoted from "Dkjester;515776"

i still dont see why no one thinks reduce CS item prices for return customers is a good idea. I would think F2P players would LOVE this. You make friends with someone that always buys diamonds (who would then get a discount on CS shop items) and pass them on to the F2P players when selling the diamonds.....

I am actually shocked more F2P players dont like this idea. I would love it as a paying player, i know those that buy diamonds from me would love it, and i know it would promote more repeat buyers. That Frogster would love.

I wouldn't think most would be against that O.o. The OP and several others in this thread have asked for massive perks like private channels with boosted exp and whatnot...that is going way too far. Discount for return customers...of course that would be a good idea. Doubt it would ever be implemented though :s. We've discussed the same thing many, many times before because of how expensive the cash shop is, but it just falls on deaf ears. I definitely agree with things like this that reduce the cost for paying players (because seriously, hundreds of dollars for a single statted set is beyond ridiculous...and I'm sure the price has gone up since I last played ._.), but beyond that, do not want.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;515748"

On a personal note, honey- we all know now that you're a successful white male with chiseled good looks and probably a six-pack

Katie katie katie, U know i don't like it when u talk about me on the forums. please you're making me blush.

This idea of a discount in the CS for diamond buyers is confusing to me... If you in the CS at all arent you a diamond buyer? lol
What would be the diffrence for someone that does not buy diamonds and someone that does... discount? *boggle*

And, this fantacy about suggested *perks* for high end buyers providing some kind of HUGE advantage is another point of confusion for me... why do you think it will provide some kind of advantage to have a exclusive skin or portable vendor or portable crafting devices?... There are already portable mail, AH and banks you can Rent for Diamonds (i have each for a year rented) Does that give me a HUGE advantage?.. NO.. but its convient and i get them with diamonds.. would you call that a perk? i would, yes... why cant i get some exclusive skins with a locked CS page or some kind of additional rental features... I dunno why some of you keep falling back on how Paying player are so far ahead of the f2p.. isnt that an Obvious result of paying for CS items and not paying?

The argument in this thread is circular.

I played f2p the first 1 1/2 years. Now I spend depending on RL situation. Sometimes $20 sometimes alot more. What the f2p exclusive players need to realize is alot of people that spend uber amounts on this game, spend it so they CAN have that power. And IMO they should have that power. The p2p is what gives you this game to play free of charge. That is a cold hard fact, like it or not. This game was made to make money, not to be nice and give you something to spend your time doing. So honestly your input on what benefits p2p players get, is not really wanted, its not really valid. Because instead of saying something like "Yeah, I can see how p2p players should get exclusive aggs", you say "Wtf, why do the p2p players get all the benefits in the game that we dont?" <<<<Really? What incentive does your f2p build offer that would entice people to spend money if they get no clear advantage? Just spend a few hundred because p2p thinks Frogster needs the charity money? Your reasoning not only isnt sound, it doesnt even have a hint of logic in it. The game is f2p, p2p if you want to keep up with endgame. The people at endgame still have to get ahold of diamonds, whether they buy them through Frogster or an in-game seller. The more perks Frogster gives to people that actually buy diamonds, the more likely people will spend money. Whether it means a big baller spends 1k instead of 500, or a f2p decides to drop 10 on it for a cool mount.

Why is it that every time someone says 'ftp' on these forums everyone spams 'you arrogant entitled %&*!' ?

The point that was made a few posts back was NOT that p2p players should have exactly the same game experience as ftp and should have no advantage over ftp. If this happened, obviously whats the point of p2p?

Lemme say something that might shock some people: MMO's such as rom make their money by converting ftp players to p2p players! -GASP!- *Rapid intake of breath!*

Yes, a game will make more money with everyone paying a small or medium amount of money than with one person paying a large amount of money (obviously theres a point where the two are equal, you can do the math for it tho. that point comes sooner rather than later.)

So now we must ask: What is the best way to convert ftp players to p2p players?

So, lets say rom took the stand that p2p players got their own chat rooms, their own zones, etc etc, that ftp players could not even access or talk in. There would LITERALLY be a wall between ftp and p2p players, so that the two are not even in the game together. p2p would be comparing themselves only to p2p, and ftp only compare themselves to other ftp-ers.

One of the easiest ways to convert ftp->p2p is to allow the two to play side by side, so that ftp-ers say "Wow, that guy is awesome! How do I get like that?!?!?!"

The worst way is to make a disconnect in the two communities so that p2p-ers always say "Wow, those loser ftp-ers cant even get into this chat room! Lets make fun of them some more!" and ftp-ers say "Wow, those p2p-ers need their own chat room! What arrogant &%*!#@%!" This is -NOT- the way to form that admiration feeling of ftp-ers of p2p-ers.


Also on a side note that came up in this topic and has come up before: I am FIRMLY against selling of power in this game, and for it to be as successful as possible (make the most money humanly possible) they must stop selling power in the item mall and sell convenience. But, as this is a giant risk in the eyes of this company and therefore we will probably not see this happen anytime soon.


so...much...text >.<

My point is that a f2p game model that would benefit everyone equally cannot exist. It would fail. What incentive other than perks that f2p players cannot get is there to get people to spend money? It is the exact reason people pay that f2p players want rid of? Rofl. Let me see, spend $20 on this game, or play the game for free to get the exact same thing? Tough decision. I think ill go tell my boss "Hey man, im not coming to work today, but i expect the same paycheck as everyone else, because it wouldnt be fair for them to get more than me." Ill let you know how that works for me.

I'd like to point everyone to the starter post ( http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthr…ll=1#post515545 ) Please go back and re-read what Valentinc had to say, and also note that he mentioned a couple of games which have a truly mixed income model. I've played one of them (LotRO), after it went "Free to Play". I believe it began as a strictly subscription game, and only recently (within the past six months or so) evolved into a mixed subscription/F2P game, with the additional option for players to buy game cards for use in the game store.

LotRO and its stablemate, DDO, offer two subscription levels: Standard and VIP. The differences between the two levels are somewhat minimal, other than the sub prices. VIP allows for more characters per account per server, and more store tokens (Turbine Points) per month than the Standard sub does. Both allow players to reach the current level cap (70 for LotRO, I believe), and access to all of LotRO's content. DDO is or was somewhat different, as even Standard and VIP subs still needed to buy into some of the content. The monthly store tokens take care of that need.

Casual (F2P) players in LotRO can have two characters per account per server, are capped at level 65, and don't have access to all of the game content. They do have the option of buying LotRO game cards, redeeming them, and being able to buy content, extra character slots, or in-game items from the game store. And, of course, they can convert their account to a sub (Standard or VIP) at any time. Sub accounts can also buy the game cards if the player(s) feel they need more game tokens.

One difference I've noted: Absolutely F2P players in LotRO have the ability to gain store tokens and can purchase a permanent mount (using gold, from an NPC, or using the store tokens, if they gain enough of them), along with the needed Riding skill (store item that all characters must have to ride a permanent mount.) There is an associated mount-travel routine that costs nothing but in-game currency, for the most part, but it's off-topic for this post.

Having said all that, I've seen in at least one other thread that it's been suggested RoM migrate to that kind of model. Unfortunately, I don't think it would work very well. The biggest difference in the *gameplay* models is that LotRO does *not* sell permanent power items or skills in their game shop. All "power-ups" are time-limited once you've activated them. Gear modding in LotRO is also very limited in comparison to RoM.

Had the basic income model for RoM never allowed for or offered permanent "power" to be sold in the Item Shop, then perhaps RoM could fairly easily convert to a similar mixed income model (subscriptions + microtransactions.) Instead, Frogster (and we) are stuck with the original microtransaction model. Or, at least, I don't see a way to achieve some sort of "balance", limited as it might be, between sub accounts in RoM and F2P accounts. That sort of situation might actually be worse than the "balance" we have now, based on the amount of "power" that a given player can purchase from the Item Shop. ("Power" can be considered as puris used to add stats to gear, enhancement jewels, runes, and so forth, that are permanently added to gear items, BTW.)

And, to get back to the original topic...I'm opposed to Valentinc's suggestion that diamond buyers be given extra perks or incentives for *being* diamond buyers. They already have more than enough advantages over F2P players, and don't need any more. Better to encourage P2P players to buy their own diamonds every so often, as they can afford to or, as their *parents* can afford to. Keep the latter in mind--we do have a fair number of younger people playing RoM who don't have credit cards, PayPal accounts, or ready access to game cards.

So If i get 100 Rubies for buying $20 worth of diamonds that's wrong? I like the idea lock rubies, make it a VIP CS, call it a day. There best and easiest solution, the F2P won't miss it. I'm still floored few people think paying players should get a few perks. I mean were keeping the servers on...

Quoted from "regentego;515931"

So If i get 100 Rubies for buying $20 worth of diamonds that's wrong? I like the idea lock rubies, make it a VIP CS, call it a day. There best and easiest solution, the F2P won't miss it. I'm still floored few people think paying players should get a few perks. I mean were keeping the servers on...

There should be some perks for different lvls of spending. I like idea different titles with interesting bonues - PARTY BUFFS (let the p2p continue to carry the f2p), movement speed, drop rate, tp, xp, +all attributes, +mount speed, hp regen, whatever.

I choose to NOT play games where the p2p an f2p difference is so obvious that it be stated from the get-go. Yer seem ter ferget that PERMENANT mounts, bank slots, bag spaces (well, Froggy messed wit this one), an other items aren't available ter the f2p, UNLESS someone who be p2p helps em out (usually in "exchange" fer some gold, of course). Iffn there twas a limit cap, "extra" gear, bonus power, etc., available in this game, me wouldn't even have stopped in. There be a reason me choses NOT ter play those games, an if Ebil an others desire those kinda rewards, maybers they should find a different game ter play. There be plenty o those games out there.

Quoted from "Lemonater;515947"

I choose to NOT play games where the p2p an f2p difference is so obvious that it be stated from the get-go. Yer seem ter ferget that PERMENANT mounts, bank slots, bag spaces (well, Froggy messed wit this one), an other items aren't available ter the f2p, UNLESS someone who be p2p helps em out (usually in "exchange" fer some gold, of course). Iffn there twas a limit cap, "extra" gear, bonus power, etc., available in this game, me wouldn't even have stopped in. There be a reason me choses NOT ter play those games, an if Ebil an others desire those kinda rewards, maybers they should find a different game ter play. There be plenty o those games out there.

While I understand you don't want clear line discriminating the f2p, at what point do they have so much access that paying players start to see this and stop buying diamonds. Your argument of take nothing from the f2p give nothing more to the p2p is an unfair perspective. In fact no f2p have any right to comment on what I should get if I buy diamonds. This isn't an exclusive club, its open to everyone, all you have to do is buy diamonds.

I make that choice to buy diamonds, you make the choice not too so who the hell is anyone to say "oh ebil you deserve nothing for spending your hard earned money" You f2p are a piece of work trying to dictate what I get when I'm the one paying so you have the privilege to play freeloader.

The OP posed the question to the P2P, not to the have nots who want to have all the say. The biggest problem is most of the players are totally f2p, so those of us that do are a minority voice.

You know what all p2p sell your diamonds for 100k per, make them pay for YOUR hard earned money. Maybe then they will be a little more open to the P2P getting a little pat on the back.

regentego, you already have exclusive benefits as a paying player. HOWEVER, some of your fellow paying players are more than happy to spread those benefits around, for example trading diamonds for gold and trading rubies for gold.

THERE! DONE! You may not like it, but THAT is the way it goes. The F2P players have access to the same benefits as the P2W pay-to-win players, only as long as the P2W players allow it.

Another "I want more for my money" argument. And people wonder why they get labeled elitists.

On the one hand, the argument sounds almost reasonable. "I put more money into the game than other players, I should recieve more benefits." But that argument sets aside, and expects those the message is delivered to do the same, the already abundant benefits that a paying player gets over the typical F2P (excepting of course the endgame f2p players, which are a whole other ball of wax). You get direct access to purified fusion stones, rubies from purchases made in the Diamond shop, all exclusive to the paying player.

The added channel for paying players only is something that just bothers me. It speaks of a "us" and "them" mentality, and the paying players can't even associate or play in the same channel as the f2p. Because who wants to hang out with a bunch of freeloaders right? For me, that's the beginning of a slippery slope into pure segregation, which I don't think anyone really wants. (And I could be paranoid )