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ipeacefrog

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261

Wednesday, April 11th 2012, 10:12pm

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Saynomor on Palenque is spamming gold sales now.

Not trying to aggravate things here, but if it takes 2 days to get an automated response from support that we have to reply to in order that action be taken on it days later, doing that makes no sense for Frogster or us in dealing with Gold Spammers let alone obviously hacked accounts. In a day the Gold Spammer and used up the account Mega's and has moved on.

BYW, when I say hacked account I an referring to any account that is not logged on by the legitimate owner. I am certain that there are some add on's that are sniffing user names and passwords.

If we post it here, one of the forum people pass it on to Frogster, a GM pops in and listens to World chat for 2 min and then deals with the issue. Quick and easy.

Good for you, good for the hacked account owner and good for us.

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Elldarian, Leadership Council Dovahkiin on Palenque Lvl 12 Guild

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

262

Wednesday, April 11th 2012, 10:15pm

Quoted from "Dionaea;520896"

bannister, it is a general advice to regularly change your passwords and this goes for not only our game but any internet application you use that requires log-in details. It does not point the finger at anyone and also it does not imply that there has been any break-in in a certain time, just as we advice to regular scan your computers, update your security software and so on and so forth. These are general tips we are handing out, that is really all. If you deem the advice not useful, it is your own free decision not to comply, so to speak,thus is the nature of giving advice. Else we would order it, then you could maybe assume that something has happened in a certain time, but then assuming would not be necessary because we would tell you the reasons. Please do not fuel un-needed panic.

We will continue to maintain our security, investigate every reported hacked account for all possible options and, if needed, improve the security on our side, just as we ask you in advice to maintain yours.

There is really no big conspiracy going on.

Now I do understand that you are worried and want a definite answer to all your questions. But we can not answer you in the way you want us to, as what you want us to say would not be the truth. We are here to assist you, our support will assist you and investigate if your account was hacked and will return to you that which was lost by the hack, if possible.

STILL waiting for a retraction.

An honorable person would admit that BOLD'ed statement was a lie.

Oh wait, you keep saying that I want you to lie to me. Now I am confused.

Nytefall

Unregistered

263

Wednesday, April 11th 2012, 10:43pm

Quoted from "bannister;524299"

STILL waiting for a retraction.

An honorable person would admit that BOLD'ed statement was a lie.

Oh wait, you keep saying that I want you to lie to me. Now I am confused.


Bannister,

Please remain on topic in this thread - This post is irrelevant to the conversation, and technically a violation of our forum rules regarding vacuous posts and discussing forum moderation.

Issues with forum moderation or personal issues with forum staff are to be handled by private message only.

Once again, please keep this thread on-topic.

264

Wednesday, April 11th 2012, 11:04pm

yup, a couple more hacked accounts on our server, this afternoon

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"actions speak louder than lies"

265

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 12:00am

If someone is online to temp ban/kick the hackers it would eliminate the motivation. I understand it could get expensive to keep a gm online at all times, but it sure would help.

Much as I hate to say it, I think the next best thing would be giving a few trustworthy players per server the ability to kick or temporary ban hacked players would help.

Compensate with a heavy discount on cash shop items, or free diamonds and you'd have a few who would be willing to act as pseudo GMs

Make every temp ban or kick require a set procedure before it can go through, a screen shot showing the reason for it to prevent misuse should be good.

266

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 12:08am

Quoted from "refugee;524328"

If someone is online to temp ban/kick the hackers it would eliminate the motivation. I understand it could get expensive to keep a gm online at all times, but it sure would help.

Much as I hate to say it, I think the next best thing would be giving a few trustworthy players per server the ability to kick or temporary ban hacked players would help.

Compensate with a heavy discount on cash shop items, or free diamonds and you'd have a few who would be willing to act as pseudo GMs

Make every temp ban or kick require a set procedure before it can go through, a screen shot showing the reason for it to prevent misuse should be good.

Uh...

https://forum.runesofmagic.com/announcement.php?f=586&a=127

ipeacefrog

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267

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 12:29am

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Greendeath on Palenque

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Elldarian, Leadership Council Dovahkiin on Palenque Lvl 12 Guild

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

ipeacefrog

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268

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 12:56am

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Render on Palenque

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Elldarian, Leadership Council Dovahkiin on Palenque Lvl 12 Guild

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

269

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 1:43am

well i was hacked to day too impler on govenda

270

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 3:42am

I count 3 people hacked on Artemis over the last 6 hours -- and I have only been online intermittently for half of that time.
[img][/img]





ipeacefrog

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271

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 3:47am

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Ramisray on Palenque

The other thing Frogster ought to be able to do is take these names and check the IP address they log in from. Ought to point them a usefull direction.

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Elldarian, Leadership Council Dovahkiin on Palenque Lvl 12 Guild

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

272

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 6:14am

Too easy!
Just waiting for my 2 month old dusty Dias you owe me >|

EsxCape

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273

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 6:45am

In response to Dionaea's Post:

I will reply to this as respectfully and constructively as possible.

“Attempts to bypass this technical limitation did not succeed 100%. So when we switched to the new system the in-game option was removed.”
The proper approach to increase efficiency, instead of decrease it, would have been to fix the technical issues or take the time to rebuild the in-game report system from the ground up. Both are probably time-intensive solutions, but would have been far more worthwhile and beneficial to your players and Support team in the long run. The lack of this feature is now something that causes the game to suffer. Having finally settled into the new system, it may not be such a bad idea to revisit this feature and try to make it better than it originally was.

“With the Knowledge Base support portal and the few additional steps needed to contact support, we also lowered the ticket load by those requests…”
It is likely that the ticket load also decreased due to lack of service use. The new system is not at all user-friendly. It is difficult to navigate, complicated to understand, and overall very cumbersome to those seeking a fast and easy resolution to their problem(s). Both old and new players across all Frogster games have mentioned that they feel this way about the new Support system. The how-to guides and tutorials for the system have not swayed these players to feel differently.
Many are discouraged from creating an account with it despite its obvious benefits. From those that do create accounts, some do not return to it after their first experience with it due to all the reasons mentioned above. It should not come as a surprise that ticket load decreased. In fact, it should have been expected, as what I have already stated is fairly obvious and has been mentioned publicly across many of Frogster’s own forums.

“So bottom line, the new system saves time and aggravation for both players and supporters needed on responding to ticket requests. It is more efficient.”
This is also a bit of a false statement. The new system often takes longer than the older system to navigate in its first few uses. On average, both the new and old system probably take about the same amount of time to use. Some could argue the current system is slower than the older system because it is lacking an in-game report feature, which was capable of handling simple reports very quickly (simple reports being something that could be described in 1-2 sentences, like explaining the absence of a quest item).
The aggravation with the new system is about the same as the old system and occasionally noticeably higher. At the worst, it includes the delay in handling the missing house chest fiasco, which I guess caused documented and/or player provided and/or logged information to be lost. And at the least, it includes the increased time between report submissions and player-to-employee contact. As mentioned already, it takes approximately 2-7 days on average for a normal player to progress through the automated Support messages, assuming that they do so properly. This is an issue plaguing all players of Frogster games as all of the games are handled by one Support team.
Based on everything I have said up to this point about the Support system, I think we can safely say that the new Support system is not any more efficient than the previous system. Both parties involved have noted this. However, as it is not currently Frogster’s priority to revamp their internal Support system, the feedback from either party just gets shelfed.
Although I know you are trying hard to remain positive and objective within a negative atmosphere, this last statement about efficiency is offensive to read coming from a CM, who likely knows that this is not completely accurate, and who likely also knows that the readers know it’s not accurate. I would kindly and respectfully request that you refrain from these types of statements in the future.

“We will continue to investigate and give advice what you can do on your side, while we investigate on our side. Still, at this point, no security breach has been found. We will continue to investigate on all frontiers.”
This is something you have said before and which we are glad to hear and which we appreciate hearing. It is understood that the investigation is on-going and that the necessary Frogster departments remain vigilant in their pursuits in this regard.
However, Zarli was asking about measures of prevention, not investigation. Prevention is taking action to ensure that detrimental incidents do not occur in the future. Prevention may include things like re-evaluating the password system or trying to come up with ways to fight keyloggers and brute force hack attempts. Regardless of the source of the hacking, it is up to Frogster to make the game as secure as possible for their users. In the case of keylogging (something that originates on the user side), it may be beneficial to look into ways this can be countered using server-side security measures.
If Frogster has not yet begun discussing such things, press them to start now while they are still dealing with the issue directly (problem-solving is often best done when the problem is in front of you and you are hands-on with it). This is something the company needs to talk about as it is not the first time Frogster has had a run-in with hackings. You could even discuss it with the community; I’m sure there are players here who work in the computer/programming/online security industry that would have some great suggestions.

“But it is simply not feasible to have GMs online 24/7 in all zones on all servers.”
This is very true. GMs are simply not available to work all the time. However, you do have A LOT of people who probably are more than willing to help in-game and who would be authorized to use limited versions of GM tools. If you haven’t guessed it already, here it is: volunteer staff. I’m specifically thinking of the senior members of the moderation team. Runes of Magic is fortunate enough to have many volunteer staff members who play the game across all clients and servers. If you asked them, I’m sure at least a handful would be willing to help out the GMs at least temporarily. Even a simple mute or kick function (which could be done anonymously) would be sufficient to help aid players and save some accounts a lot of trouble. One Frogster game already does this; maybe Runes of Magic should consider it if they are short-handed.

“For affected accounts, the support really is the best address. They have the tools and means to assist as fast as possible and to investigate the possible sources of the intrusion on our side and player side.”
Support is the best place to go to in order to handle, process, restore, and investigate the issue AFTER THE FACT. Simply put, it is not possible for Support to work fast enough to deal with the current situation efficiently at the time of the hack. The current system does not have time on its side; it’s simply not set up to work that way.
The fastest way to address the situation involves two things that you already claimed Frogster cannot give: in-game reporting methods and in-game staff. Unless Frogster is prepared to take a more aggressive approach with the hackers by bringing more resources into the game to address the hacking as it’s occurring, Support is really not just the “best address,” but actually the ONLY address. Players simply don’t have any other choice right now because the other faster, more effective options don’t exist.

“Should we have any more information to share with you, we will do so.”
And hopefully my novel-length post has not dissuaded you. I promise not to write you any more books. ;)

TL;DR: This is specifically for Dionaea, not other players. I trust Dionaea will sit down to read it in its entirety. For everyone else, feel free to skip this post if you want. :p EDIT: Although non-lazy players may be interested in select passages and find it beneficial to read for the information therein.

ipeacefrog

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274

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 8:04am

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If that was only for Dionaea, you should edit it out to blank and PM her with it.

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Elldarian, Leadership Council Dovahkiin on Palenque Lvl 12 Guild

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

EsxCape

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Location: USA

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275

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 8:45am

Quoted from "ipeacefrog;524413"

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If that was only for Dionaea, you should edit it out to blank and PM her with it.

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It's a response to her with information everyone has a right to read and be aware of and respond to. I merely said that I don't expect people to read it, as I'm sure you probably didn't bother reading it. PMs are for private information and keeping things hush hush. There's nothing I said that the community doesn't deserve to also read, same as anyone else who responds to a specific person with quotes. Thanks :)

276

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 12:13pm

Quoted from "refugee;524328"

If someone is online to temp ban/kick the hackers it would eliminate the motivation. I understand it could get expensive to keep a gm online at all times, but it sure would help.

Much as I hate to say it, I think the next best thing would be giving a few trustworthy players per server the ability to kick or temporary ban hacked players would help.


Quoted from "bannister;524332"



Not the same thing at all, the post you linked reads as a request for an 'answer guy' :

[COLOR=blue !important]Your responsibilities will include:

  • Having fun and helping others!
  • Using your experience as an active and motivated Runes of Magic player to support other players and answer their questions by email.
  • You will be in close contact with Frogster’s teams in Berlin and discover a new side of Taborea…(Ever wondered what happens behind the screen? J).
  • If you consistently fulfil your duties in an epic manner, you may be offered additional interesting opportunities in the future!

[/COLOR]

277

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 12:39pm

At this point im sure everyone can accept its not ppl just handing out theyre account info. There never seems to be a GM on to ban the hacked accounts, instead the just spam until the drain the account of megas then go to guild or zone chat. What ever it takes RoM needs to address this issue and fast. You are losing the trust of players and most importantly the ppl that pay the bills for you with diamond purchases. So get off ur butt and do something useful and fix the problem. If this was a real business you would already out of your job, how much longer do you think you are gonna last if people can't trust that theyre accounts wont be comprimised. This game is already over priced on item shop stuff, so why buy any thing that may get removed, taken, or stolen from your account. The most expensive free game ever, and you cant even secure your paying customers. GREAT JOB

278

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 4:36pm

Yes, I too have seen the hacking on Artemis, as soon as I logged back in this morning...then when I went to check theromwiki, that page has now been deleted, as of today. I have a friend who is unable to log in this morning, it looks like his password has been changed so he is, of course, worried about hacking. I have seen this fabled page, and believe that whoever deleted it should have thought a little more before doing that. It did not have ACCOUNT names, what it listed was the PLAYER names of all the hacked people. Why try and cover that up? We all already know it's a very large list, and growing. Let the conspiracy theories begin.

RoMage

rustyx is lame rogue

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279

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 4:49pm

Gruum hacked on Reni...

Do I really like to create support ticket for this?

Not really... but I will forward all suggestions further...

280

Thursday, April 12th 2012, 4:58pm

Couldn't this problem be resolved by making your primary and secondary password be different. And after 3 failed attempts at a log in your account be locked for 24 hours?