Runes of Magic US / AU

Ok yall misunderstood me totaly. What iI meant was the gear that someone JUST got from an instance. They then remove the original stat and attempt to sell the now statless gear for more than one with the original stat. At the same time they then stick teh stat they removed from said item into the AH for even more screwing of the general populace. Cleaning a piece of gear is a totaly different thing which is what I believe yall thought I meant.

usually the good stats are actually USED by the players, because they need them. the extraction stone enables them to sell the item AT ALL. otherwise you would see 90% less items in the AH because every item stat has any usable stat on it would be destroyed.

and any other stat can be used as crap-t5 for tiering and saves them as much <price for a t5-crapstons> minus <40 dias * goldprice> (thats about 200k for me, dunno about US. crap-t5s 1mil , 39 dias stone + 1 charge = ~800k )

and of course if you want an item x with int/matk on it where the item is worth 30 million pure and the stat is worth another 25 million you will of course have to pay more for an item with int/matk on it...

oh, so your mad that people can use item shop items to turn a piece of gear into a clean item and a stat and sell them separately? BFD.

Quoted from "Balooga;521964"

oh, so your mad that people can use item shop items to turn a piece of gear into a clean item and a stat and sell them separately? BFD.

I think the issue is that the gear with the stat removed is still being priced way to high.
Example
In prior times a piece of gear with the skill set extracted sold for less then the piece with it intact.

That is not happening with gear that folks remove the stats from.
They not only try to get a high price for the gear they then sell the stat they removed.

Quoted from "TJBarnes;521981"

That is not happening with gear that folks remove the stats from.
They not only try to get a high price for the gear they then sell the stat they removed.

^ not necessarily, a lot of people are removing the stat for own use but finds it pointless to waste gear that can be unbound so try their luck in selling it..the item might be blank in AH but we're all just assuming that the stat is being sold separately ... Assumptions =/= Fact

Quoted from "TJBarnes;521981"

I think the issue is that the gear with the stat removed is still being priced way to high.
Example
In prior times a piece of gear with the skill set extracted sold for less then the piece with it intact.

That is not happening with gear that folks remove the stats from.
They not only try to get a high price for the gear they then sell the stat they removed.

Ding Ding Ding. Give TJ a prize. Someone here is smart enought o see what I am saying. Now maomiai I have checked the AH and seen both gear with no stats and mana stones with T5 stats in the AH from the same seller. Not gonna guess wether the stat came from a certian peice of gear but it is funny how the same seller has both the gear and mana stone in for the exact same ammount of time, but the gear is overpriced.

Someone mentioned the set skills. That is also a bane of contention. Witht eh set skill used a piece of gear becomes esentialy WORTHLESS to anyone else, no matter what stats are on it.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;521993"

Someone mentioned the set skills. That is also a bane of contention. Witht eh set skill used a piece of gear becomes esentialy WORTHLESS to anyone else, no matter what stats are on it.

That is completely false. The set skills are nowhere near as important as the benefit that the gear will give you. Most of the set skills suck anyway.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;521993"

Ding Ding Ding. Give TJ a prize. Someone here is smart enought o see what I am saying. Now maomiai I have checked the AH and seen both gear with no stats and mana stones with T5 stats in the AH from the same seller. Not gonna guess wether the stat came from a certian peice of gear but it is funny how the same seller has both the gear and mana stone in for the exact same ammount of time, but the gear is overpriced.

Someone mentioned the set skills. That is also a bane of contention. Witht eh set skill used a piece of gear becomes esentialy WORTHLESS to anyone else, no matter what stats are on it.

Your browse in AH today or in the last week or whatever reflects for all AH Selling History since the Random Attribute Stones came out? Nobody pm's sellers for discount and buy without AH being the middle man anymore?

You've definitely convinced me now... =.=

Quoted from "Borella;521997"

That is completely false. The set skills are nowhere near as important as the benefit that the gear will give you. Most of the set skills suck anyway.

Borella....not all skills suck...most do but not all and trying to convince some people that gear with set skill removed still has the same benefits as one with set skill intact is like .. well banging your head against a wall...pointless. People are entitled to believe what they want, whether they'll welcome advice or correction is a totally different issue.

Quoted from "maomiai;522001"

Your browse in AH today or in the last week or whatever reflects for all AH Selling History since the Random Attribute Stones came out? Nobody pm's sellers for discount and buy without AH being the middle man anymore?

You've definitely convinced me now... =.=



Borella....not all skills suck...most do but not all and trying to convince some people that gear with set skill removed still has the same benefits as one with set skill intact is like .. well banging your head against a wall...pointless. People are entitled to believe what they want, whether they'll welcome advice or correction is a totally different issue.

You gotta remember Elvie that Megamouse thinks that mages should stack Dex... so trying to convince him/her/it of anything is really not a possible thing.

Quoted from "Borella;522002"

You gotta remember Elvie that Megamouse thinks that mages should stack Dex... so trying to convince him/her/it of anything is really not a possible thing.

It's not personal and frankly how people stat aren't my business (as long as they're not asking me how to stat then go and do something opposite to what I advise). All I was trying to say is that not all items have stats removed just so the seller can sell it 'twice'.

Earlier a pair of 119 mage boots dropped with a Int/HP stat. Here's a question...the mage who won the roll wanted the stat for use, now do you expect the mage to puri the 119 boots for the stat or rip the stat out with an cleaner so the 119 boots can still be of use? The mage in party already has OD boots, do you now expect a pair of 119 gear to be sold for dirt cheap so it's 'fairer' on the buyer because it's 'clean'?

Quoted from "maomiai;522003"

Earlier a pair of 119 mage boots dropped with a Int/HP stat. Here's a question...the mage who won the roll wanted the stat for use, now do you expect the mage to puri the 119 boots for the stat or rip the stat out with an cleaner so the 119 boots can still be of use? The mage in party already has OD boots, do you now expect a pair of 119 gear to be sold for dirt cheap so it's 'fairer' on the buyer because it's 'clean'?

I am not asking for dirt cheap prices, but what I am asking is fair value for something that now must be fully statted. It will cost the buyer more gold to get the clean item statted than if he/she got the item with a semi decent but usable stat. i can see someone wanting to remove the stat from gear to use it that is not a problem. i ahve a problem with players puirposefully removing a stat, good or bad, jsut to stick it and the gear into the AH in an attempt to get more gold. Pretty much they wasted their time and diamonds when there was a possiblilty of jsut sticking the item in teh AH for a little more and a possible sale. As far as me statting Dexterity so teh fck what, I survive much longer in most instances due to me beign able to dodge attacks at a much higher rate than any other mage. People only look down a tunnel when it comes to stats. they never actually READ the benifits of each stat thus depriving them of something that could durn well do them some good. Too much of a good thing is not so good. everything in moderation si waht it is all about.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;522055"

I am not asking for dirt cheap prices, but what I am asking is fair value for something that now must be fully statted. It will cost the buyer more gold to get the clean item statted than if he/she got the item with a semi decent but usable stat. i can see someone wanting to remove the stat from gear to use it that is not a problem. i ahve a problem with players puirposefully removing a stat, good or bad, jsut to stick it and the gear into the AH in an attempt to get more gold. Pretty much they wasted their time and diamonds when there was a possiblilty of jsut sticking the item in teh AH for a little more and a possible sale. As far as me statting Dexterity so teh fck what, I survive much longer in most instances due to me beign able to dodge attacks at a much higher rate than any other mage. People only look down a tunnel when it comes to stats. they never actually READ the benifits of each stat thus depriving them of something that could durn well do them some good. Too much of a good thing is not so good. everything in moderation si waht it is all about.

I sell "cleaned" (read "stat-sucked" for "cleaned") gear- and like Elvie said, it's a good thing for everyone. I only waste stat-suckers on stats I can use. Those things are rare as hen's teeth. No way I'm gonna suck an int/mdef off a piece of gear.

Mega, I think you think endgamers do all kinds of crazy crap. And you ascribe the absolute worst motives to people for no apparent reason.

Apparently, we hold secret meetings and set crazy gear prices, we use our jackboots to kick dia sellers into submission, we horde vast quantities of gold like dragons, we hold back gear to keep the little guilds submissive to our will, we intentionally try and make a profit... oh wait. That last one is true.

And we all make fun of dex-stacking mages.

Too much of a good thing is... just enough, if you mean Int. Show me a mage with too much Int and I'll sell you a pretty bridge in NYC.

Back on topic: I know I seem to keep harping on the same thing over and over, but really... if you want gear, and you don't like prices, go loot it. You can. If my bunch of retards can do it, literally anyone can.

If you want to sell dias for crazy prices, have at it. Someone will buy 'em no matter how crazy you price them, if they run out of Phoenix in the middle of the night.

If you want pretty gear with the stat intact, again... and I can't stress this enough... go loot it yourself. Looting your own gear solves a whole host of problems, although it comes at a pretty high cost. But try it, you just might like it.

Just for fun, lemme tell you a quick story.

Ok, so we cleared ToSHhm last night, right? Well, when we killed the sixth boss (finally, I still have scars), our rogue looted a beautiful 115 OD Giant's Heart staff for our druid, and he linked it in worldchat cause he was so excited. Someone from a smaller guild yelled and said to stop bragging, and we were like... "We're not bragging, we're so excited we peed ourselves." Anyway, the lady who objected to the bragging whispered me, and we had a little conversation.

She said to me, "No one would grats us if my guild clears GC normal, which is what we're working on! Why do you have to talk about what you get all the time?"

I told her, "Look, you are so wrong- I would grats you myself! We know how hard it is, we were working on GCN not that long ago, and it's hard as heck when you just start progressing. Any time someone gets a group together and actually works together to make progress at whatever level, we all get excited!"

And that was the truth. She and I had a nice long chat, because I think she thought I would make fun of her and her guild, and instead she got my sincere respect. When we were done, I think we both understood each other's point of view better, and she'll be proud to worldshout when they get the last boss in normal down.

And, just out of curiosity, can I see a show of hands from the so-called "evil endgamers" here?: How many of you feel proud when absolutely anyone stops complaining long enough to get in an instance and actually run something? We want to see people succeed! Most of us want to see our servers progress. Very few are so jealous of their own success that they feel threatened when someone else tries. We all want a healthy economy. We all want to see people strive and win.

Sure, there are actual "evil" endgamers. Just like there are "evil" greedy mid-gamers who basically want everything handed to them. There are "evil" diamond sellers who want to start cartels, and "evil" f2p'ers who greed everything to stay on top. But the vast vast majority of players just want to play and have a good time with their friends.

The extraction stones, believe it or not actually help to drive down the prices of gear. Why? Because of the gear not being destroyed, it is rather put on the AH, which in turn means more gear, which will drive down the prices. There is literately an overabundance of ToSH gear available on Reni. At this point it is not worth it to argue. If gear was given away just for the price of an unbinder, people would still complain. If the gear was being given away completely free they would complain its not OD. If OD gear was given away, they would complain its not OD ENOUGH.

Complainers complain, doers pew pew. Decide which you want to be.

Frogster could end it asap. All they need to do is implement the diamond seller NPC and the gold seller NPC that is in Varanus Central. They have already done that on the EU servers. This would deplete the gold supply on the server quickly and in turn lower prices on gear as no one will have 110 mil gold.

Another note the prices for diamonds is 20k gold per diamond from these NPC's.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;522055"

As far as me statting Dexterity so teh fck what, I survive much longer in most instances due to me beign able to dodge attacks at a much higher rate than any other mage. People only look down a tunnel when it comes to stats. they never actually READ the benifits of each stat thus depriving them of something that could durn well do them some good. Too much of a good thing is not so good. everything in moderation si waht it is all about.

Funny how theres only 1 mage in RoM versus the many who study and know the game's mechanics in and out thinks this.

Sorry for ripping out that stam/dex fail stat, didnt know you wanted it.

If he still wants to think that the little dex he has helps his cloth in tosh agaisnt bosses just let him because all the reasons why that is just not possible have already been explained lol.

Quoted from "Gladerius;522122"

Another note the prices for diamonds is 20k gold per diamond from these NPC's.

Just another point that the price on the EU servers when introduced was higher than the going rate - in some cases twice as high. If this price was going to be implemented here, it would be completely different than the EU introduction if they undercut players that had bought their diamonds with real money. I don't think they are ever going to do that.

Also as has been pointed out in the past, gold sinks are great for removing excess gold, but it isn't going to make the super rich poor while leaving moderately wealthy players alone. Sell say, puri packs for gold and loads of gold would vanish, but the super rich players would still be super rich and have a higher % of the server's gold as they could afford not to put all their gold into such an offer. And as the offer would be limited presumably then they would also spend less percentage wise of their bank balance.

Economies, of even simple things like game servers, are never simple or easy to understand and predict.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;522055"

I am not asking for dirt cheap prices, but what I am asking is fair value for something that now must be fully statted. It will cost the buyer more gold to get the clean item statted than if he/she got the item with a semi decent but usable stat. i can see someone wanting to remove the stat from gear to use it that is not a problem. i ahve a problem with players puirposefully removing a stat, good or bad, jsut to stick it and the gear into the AH in an attempt to get more gold. Pretty much they wasted their time and diamonds when there was a possiblilty of jsut sticking the item in teh AH for a little more and a possible sale.

If the pair of 119 boots dropped with an Int/Def stat, does this now mean that the boots should also cost more than a pair of cleaned boots? My point is stats aren't the only factor on sell value, if we had left the Int/HP stat on to group sell, I can guarantee that there'll be a (min) extra 40mil tag added for the cost of the stat, does the OD + stat price tag now make it more appealing? I'm inclined to believe potential buyers will complain more than welcome that price tag. I understand your argument over some sellers selling 'twice' on one drop it's understandable, but it must be realised that unless you're in the party or the seller themselves any theory people have about the price tag and what happened to the stat on a piece of item are only assumptions.

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;522055"

As far as me statting Dexterity so teh fck what

You're right, I for one couldn't care less if you stat dex as a mage and this thread isn't about mage statting.. quit on that topic please people.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;522069"

If you want pretty gear with the stat intact, again... and I can't stress this enough... go loot it yourself. Looting your own gear solves a whole host of problems, although it comes at a pretty high cost. But try it, you just might like it.

I couldn't agree more, earlier in the thread someone theorised that endgame guild are holding gear to manipulate the market. Nothing and I seriously mean nothing is stopping people from farming themselves, when I first entered ToSH (on both S/R and D/S) I was a mix of gch/zs/dl/rt gear..my druid replaced my last remaining imp stats about a month after we cleared ToSH (still have a lot of temple/tomb stats but who cares...it doesn't hinder my healing). There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Chapter 3 stats/gear to farm Chapter 4 instances, only thing that is stopping players from doing so is the mentality of 'I can only clear endgame content with the newest and best stats/gear' .....Bangs is still going in ToSH with dirty statted imp ZS/DL gear =.=
Gear/Stats =/= Skills

PS grats on ToSH clear (little delayed on grats I know hehe)

Quoted from "MegaMouseSEC;522055"

As far as me statting Dexterity so teh fck what, I survive much longer in most instances due to me beign able to dodge attacks at a much higher rate than any other mage. People only look down a tunnel when it comes to stats. they never actually READ the benifits of each stat thus depriving them of something that could durn well do them some good. Too much of a good thing is not so good. everything in moderation si waht it is all about.

Nah... *If* you happen to live longer its because you don't do anywhere near enough DPS to pull agg. Sub 6K Mdam and 40 somethin Mattack ain't gona get it done in ToSH... stack all the dex you want.

Quoted from "KatalanOrk;522128"

Also as has been pointed out in the past, gold sinks are great for removing excess gold, but it isn't going to make the super rich poor while leaving moderately wealthy players alone. Sell say, puri packs for gold and loads of gold would vanish, but the super rich players would still be super rich and have a higher % of the server's gold as they could afford not to put all their gold into such an offer. And as the offer would be limited presumably then they would also spend less percentage wise of their bank balance.

Economies, of even simple things like game servers, are never simple or easy to understand and predict.

ROMs economy is actually quite simple. There are basically 2 gods in ROM and a bunch of sheep. Once the gods make a decision we can very easily make a very accurate prediction on how that decision will affect the economy. We can do the same for possible changes like you did in your post.

The economy is simple. How to fix the economy is not so simple, because different people will have different opinions on what "fixed" is.