Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "regentego;521050"

They NEED our diamonds, trust me they won't hold out for long.

/join Overlords

yeah ... as if. but hey, go for it. why learn from mistakes that have been made throughout various games and times if you just can repeat them over and over again.

Good Luck

meanwhile ill sit back and watch you out-organizing organized people ...

btw...

WTB Popcorn , this is gonna be fun

regentego You and I will never agree on this. And yes I do buy quite a substantial amount of diamonds.
Money = power to you. Money = helping those less fortunate to me.

In my world those of us that have help those who don't. It is after all just money.

Ehhh... I buy as many dias as Ebil. And I sell none of them. I use em all on me and I go and get my own damned gear.

He doesn't need Overlordship.

He needs an endgame guild that can stand him lol.

If you don't like dia prices, buy your own.
If you don't like gear prices, go farm your own.
If you don't like option 1 or 2... well, WoW is ------> that way.

(I can't believe I didn't need to tell a story either o.O)

The only way P2P and F2P can finally stop this argument would have to be by putting in a subscription or a ViP status in game so that those who pay get what they feel they deserve and F2P does not get something they did not pay for. But after all.. its all 'bout The dolla dolla bills ya'll.

Quoted from "regentego;521064"

Looks like you're a bit worried friend. And im not organizing anything, I believe conversation is the spice of life, just throwing ideas and topics out.

The F2P truly feel they have the advantage, which should tell folks who spend real life money that they are being taken advantage of. I don't see anyone saying "I don't mind selling $50 rl cash in diamonds to get one piece of unstated gear" its a bubble, and it will pop one day. With the creeping CS prices it will happen sooner the later.

There's an even bigger problem lets say 35k per diamond is what's being sold now ok so lets say that we're talking about 100 million, that'd be 2857 diamonds. With 100% more diamonds that's still $50, you know what though the big problem is this: you can pay $10 at a gold seller site to get 120 million, why would anyone buy diamonds to sell them when you make 1/5th of the amount you would buying gold.

The lower diamond prices go and the higher tosh gear gets, the more likely people are going to take the risk and just buy gold.

I'm self sufficient in terms of diamonds, I don't buy or sell them from other people, that's just how I roll, but others do and will.

I just don't see why any rational person would ever buy that many diamonds when the void between how much diamonds are worth and how much gold sells for grows so much greater.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;521072"

He doesn't need Overlordship.

He needs an endgame guild that can stand him lol.

If you don't like dia prices, buy your own.
If you don't like gear prices, go farm your own.
If you don't like option 1 or 2... well, WoW is ------> that way.

(I can't believe I didn't need to tell a story either o.O)

A. Lol, I agree.
B. Still agree.

Now, onto the rest of this. Been playing for three+ years, and in the first two I never ever saw this argument come up. Anywhere. If I'm correct, it started after RT was released (maybe when DoD was released) and instances got a hell of a lot harder. Epeens got larger, some people got dumber, and some people got smarter. Natural selection at work I'd say.
I've argued this very discussion multiple times, and have come to the same conclusion everytime: without diamonds, there is no "OP", no end-game, no "how the hell do I get out of this rut", and no gold. Without gold, there is no gear, no diamonds, and yet again, no way to get out of the rut. Basically, if no one is willing to negotiate with another, no one is going to get anywhere. Do I think this arguement is pointless? Yes, yes I do. Do I think it's necessary? Yes and no.

Xaldyn, please humour me, I've learned a lot more about economics in the time you've taken away from the game. Was I the one shouting at people for raising the prices of diamonds when I thought that gear prices were acceptable? Yes, I was, but I still feel that they were acceptable at that point. Do I feel that the prices of gear (not stats, gear) and diamonds correlates perfectly now? Yes, I do. On Govinda, ToSHH gear is extremely cheap (Jenny shoulders UD are 15m, for example.) GCH gear has gotten to be even cheaper than that, with the exception of Annelia gear, simply because what needs to drop off the damn b**** does not lol. Now, stats, on the other hand, are a different story. I personally feel that they're all overpriced: magical, melee, and otherwise. I'd have to say priest and knight stats are some of the most expensive on the server, and that they all need to come down. But, I digress: without some give and take, it's not going to happen.

To all of you diamond buyers who think you control the economy, you do, to an extent. I believe you control about half of the economy, while the rest of the player base (F2P) control the other half. If you raise prices of diamonds, the playerbase raises the prices of gear and stats in order to compensate, and it allllllll goes downhill from there. If you lower the price of diamonds, sometimes the playerbase will corelate (spell check please?) and lower the price of gear and stats. There will always be those knuckleheads who will keep their prices (yes, I used to be one of them, but if you're a good seller to me I personally give considerable discounts). It all really just comes down to working with people.

As an old player, I'll just point out that you can play RoM without relying on diamond sellers and also stay at an endgame level (though not bleeding edge) and keep up with content. Maybe it's just because I've been with RoM a long time and know all the tricks and trends and yadda yadda, but it is true, it can be done. Part of it probably has to do with the fact I have been playing a long time, but it's really nothing that anyone else couldn't do (f2p or p2p). I'm actually fairly convinced that both types of players could be self-reliant if they wanted to, but of course they won't be for one reason or another.

It could be that I'm too far removed now from the "conflict" to really emphathize, but how will this make a positive change? It just sounds like another transition to economic chaos, like a shockwave from the initial inflation issue. There hasn't been legitimate economic balance since that happened. A lot of ideas on how to "fix" the economy were voiced, none came to fruition... Actually if that hacker had kept going around stealing people's gold and if Frogster hadn't restored lost gold from hacked accounts, we could have gotten close to a balance. rofl. I don't suppose that had been his/her intention? xD (I joke.)
Really, there were a lot of good ideas voiced on the forum. If anyone had the nerve to follow-through on them I think there could have been many benefits. But nothing happened, nothing changed, and as far as I can tell this thread is not unlike any of the others that I've already read. =/

People must just be forgetting the standard tactics... play smart, don't waste anything (time, effort, resources, currency, opportunities, etc.), engage the content (don't be a passive player), stay in the know (check forums, website, social networks). Just those alone will help you get where you need to be regardless of f2p or p2p. I don't see any point to the feud at all. I'm inclined to agree with Fandreith's post. EDIT: Also some good points in Zanda's post.

The only point i can say for both f2p and p2w players is:

If you are not happy with the price of diamonds from p2w players and gear cost from f2p players dont buy until you get those for the price you need/(can afford).

If no one buys prices will go down on both sides. There is no rule in this game that a p2w players have to sell diamonds at restricted price and f2p players have to sell gear at restricted price. All those transactions will go based on understanding between players. So please stop this topic here before it leads to more misunderstanding between players.

While we're at it, I'mma go ahead and come at this from a 3rd angle...

To all you daily quest item, consumable crafters & resource gatherers... if the prices for both the diamonds and the end game items increases further... then let's REALLY put the hurt on everyone and charge out the rear for stuff they need every day! I say 2mil for stacks of strong stimulant; 5mil for stacks of dog meats; 250k per stack of mid level green resources! Let's show them where the real gold sink will lay!

... or we can just lay down our guns, everyone sell at reasonable rates, and go back to playing the game instead of trying to play "dominate the economics"

Quoted from "Silenteye7;521087"

While we're at it, I'mma go ahead and come at this from a 3rd angle...

To all you daily quest item, consumable crafters & resource gatherers... if the prices for both the diamonds and the end game items increases further... then let's REALLY put the hurt on everyone and charge out the rear for stuff they need every day! I say 2mil for stacks of strong stimulant; 5mil for stacks of dog meats; 250k per stack of mid level green resources! Let's show them where the real gold sink will lay!

... or we can just lay down our guns, everyone sell at reasonable rates, and go back to playing the game instead of trying to play "dominate the economics"

I can't actually find anything to argue about with the first part of your post. It's pretty amusing to me really, even more so because that's how many lowbies nowadays make monies. The second part is even funnier because of the first. Not quite sure why.

First off, I should mention a Shints dagger is VERY rare for a drop. Secondly, few guilds can make it to last boss HM without serious trouble.

The real answer to this, is not to buy gear your consider over priced. The problem however is there's always some nub gold buyer out there or something that will pay it.

As long as these people keep paying the price for things like this, people will keep pricing it accordingly. Be honest, if you sell something, you always try and get the best price right?

What I'm saying, is by you guys all getting together and raising price, all you'll do is force the prices on everything up. I know your intentions are good, but if you do stuff like this you'll have the opposite effect. Plus it'll hurt people like me who sell tosh hm gear pretty cheap if im begged. Only a few days ago I sold an under dura mage staff from there for 12m. I more often than not just sell most under dura piece for enough gold to let me get by. If those prices go up then it forces me to charge more as a result.

Quoted from "bannister;521026"

This guy is stalking regentego in multiple threads.

new forum account as of March 2012? did your primary forum account get banned?

No. I don't play on US servers. I play on Macantacht and decided to make an account on US forums since I can get here some nice info, too.

Atm dia price on Macantacht is 25-27k because diamond sellers know their place and most behave nicely. They know they need f2p players if they want to get geared or to see any endgame instance from inside. There were 2 or 3 trying to push the limits, but guess what? They had competition from other dia sellers, f2p refused to buy from them, most people don't buy dias from them even if they lowered the prices and now they enjoy their zs/ds and RT normal runs because nobody wants them in GC HM, SC and TOSH.

Quoted from "regentego;521110"

Now everyone says "well you can do this" why though? Why can't we do something else, why can't we control diamond prices and keep the f2p honest. In a perfect world there would be a happy medium but there is not. There are far more F2P then P2P. Meanwhile I look at some of these diamond sellers and they are struggling in terms of gear. The gold is getting recycled back to the same f2p.

Free market economics still control diamond prices. Players buy virtual gear with real currency; diamonds just happen to be their gateway to doing this. Players don't just sell diamonds for the sake of having gold. What a player is willing to sell diamonds for is a reflection of the prices on the items they are currently seeking. If the price of items sought is greater than what they are willing to pay, they do not sell diamonds and the value/price of the diamond goes up due to a lack of supply until proper supply / demand is met.

It seems like there are too many diamond sellers for your oligopoly to work. Last I knew, diamonds were 100k each on Artemis and gear was much more expensive. No one really gets hurt except the "middle class" player (player who can't farm end-game and doesn't sell diamonds to other players) when these fluctuations in the value of gold take place. The same principles apply here as they do in the real world when you debase a currency. It's the role of Frogster to play the role of the federal reserve, and historically they haven't done too well.

3150 Diamonds = $100, 315 Diamonds = $10, 31.5 Diamonds = $1, 1 Diamond = 3.1 cents

@50k per 100 Diamonds = 5M = $3.10
@45k per 100 Diamonds = 4.5M = $3.10
@40k per 100 Diamonds = 4M = $3.10
@35k per 100 Diamonds = 3.5M = $3.10
@30k per 100 Diamonds = 3M = $3.10
@25k per 100 Diamonds = 2.5M = $3.10

Current Diamond rate = 35k per

@ 35k per ToSH Chest Plate = 200M = $177.00
@ 35k per Stam/PA Hero = 35M = $31.00
Other stats 5M - 35M (AVG 5 stats= 20M @35k per = 481 Diamonds = $14.91)

^
Example on Govinda

@35k per, a Guardian of hero costs $31

which is making the economy worse IMO.

$31 is too dam much :/

$15 would be reasonable wouldnt it?...

@10k per x 472.5 (Diamonds) = $15

472.5 Diamonds = 4M 275K Gold...would it be too crazy to sale Guardian of Hero @ 4M 275K ?

Not alot of gold for money but ALOT more reasonable being $15 bucks for the stat and 10K per Diamond !

Why not drop the prices, so we can drop ours more...Isnt that what F2P players want?...

The F2P players wanted the Diamond sellers to lower rates...we did. But I dont want to pay $31 bucks for a stat now, can we meet halfway?

*BTW, I have cleared everything on RoM, I have goten my own drops, but I do not condone the overpricing, any one who looks at MY crap on AH knows I do not try to squeeze every ounce of gold out of anyone who needs it.

* Yes im in RQ, yes I am very aware that people will do what they choose, but why cant everyone realize exactly what their doing to the economy ? I dont get why some ppl would make some one pay $177 dollars for a chest peice? Or $31 for one stat? Serious, this has gotten way out of control since I've been gone.

* On another note. I dont mind any diamond rate, as long as the entire economy's products match it in fairness and eqaulity. I believe in teamwork, communication and compromise...why cant something as serious as this be worked on?

Quoted from "ray1981;521121"

3150 Diamonds = $100, 315 Diamonds = $10, 31.5 Diamonds = $1, 1 Diamond = 3.1 cents

@50k per 100 Diamonds = 5M = $3.10
@45k per 100 Diamonds = 4.5M = $3.10
@40k per 100 Diamonds = 4M = $3.10
@35k per 100 Diamonds = 3.5M = $3.10
@30k per 100 Diamonds = 3M = $3.10
@25k per 100 Diamonds = 2.5M = $3.10

Current Diamond rate = 35k per

@ 35k per ToSH Chest Plate = 200M = $177.00
@35k per Stam/PA Hero = 35M = $31.00
Other stats 5M - 35M (AVG 5 stats= 20M @35k per = 481 Diamonds = $14.91)

^
Example on Govinda

@35k per, a Guardian of hero costs $31

which is making the economy worse IMO.

$31 is too dam much :/

$15 would be reasonable wouldnt it?...

@10k per x 472.5 (Diamonds) = $15

472.5 Diamonds = 4M 275K Gold...would it be too crazy to sale Guardian of Hero @ 4M 275K ?

Not alot of gold for money but ALOT more reasonable being $15 bucks for the stat and 10K per Diamond !

Why not drop the prices, so we can drop ours more...Isnt that what F2P players want?...

The F2P players wanted the Diamond sellers to lower rates...we did. But I dont want to pay $35 bucks for a stat now, can we meet halfway?

*BTW, I have cleared everything on RoM, I have goten my own drops, but I do not condone the overpricing, any one who looks at MY crap on AH knows I do not try to squeeze every ounce of gold out of anyone who needs it.

* On another note. I dont mind any diamond rate, as long as the entire economy's products match it in fairness and eqaulity.

You didn't factor in offers such as +100%, +150% and even +200% more dias. Since most players buy their dias during these promos, the prices you computed should be at least half. So 3.5 kk gold equals at most 1.5 USD.

As for why f2p don't drop their prices so dia selers don't drop their prices: it would be nice, but it isn't players fault that there are massive amounts of gold in game, from botters, gold sellers etc. Froggy should step in and find a way to reduce inflation.

I would really like to see prices dropping for both gear and dias as that would help little players who farm dailies and sell potions and foods and boosting them means we will have more players in endgame. Which means cheaper gear, which means cheaper dias and so on.

Quoted from "wipemaster;521123"

You didn't factor in offers such as +100%, +150% and even +200% more dias. Since most players buy their dias during these promos, the prices you computed should be at least half. So 3.5 kk gold equals at most 1.5 USD.

As for why f2p don't drop their prices so dia selers don't drop their prices: it would be nice, but it isn't players fault that there are massive amounts of gold in game, from botters, gold sellers etc. Froggy should step in and find a way to reduce inflation.

I would really like to see prices dropping for both gear and dias as that would help little players who farm dailies and sell potions and foods and boosting them means we will have more players in endgame. Which means cheaper gear, which means cheaper dias and so on.

No, i didnt forget to factor in those bonus sales, You simply can not throw those into the equation. Most P2P have a job/career, which limits their time in RoM. Have you bought diamonds on sale recently? I havent, not with their 1 hour specials while im at work.

And anyways, you cant negate the fact that not every single diamond buyer buys only during specials, thats not fair accross the board. This is about making thigns fair accross the board, not highlighting some players over others. Yes some may buy during sales, but some may not so that negates the trait of equal oppurtunity, which is not a valid part of the eqaution.

With the cost of items on the auction house, and the way the economy is right now, ROM will always have a tough time recruiting new players. The cost to be semi competitive in this game is staggering. There has to be a compromise, or soon your will be playing this game alone. If everyone compromised there would be enough diamonds and gear for everyone at a price everyone could afford.

Quoted from "tourettes;521127"

With the cost of items on the auction house, and the way the economy is right now, ROM will always have a tough time recruiting new players. The cost to be semi competitive in this game is staggering. There has to be a compromise, or soon your will be playing this game alone. If everyone compromised there would be enough diamonds and gear for everyone at a price everyone could afford.

^ You and I may be the only two players on RoM with enough foresight to realize this...

JK, I agree 100%, Every decision has good and bad outcomes, I reazlie that somewhere along the line, some ppl may have been greedy, with Diamonds or gear. That is not my concern, my concern is why has it gone on so long?

I know that with the outcome of chapter 3, the AH has been overflodded with clean gears and stats, I blame it on chapter 3. But how has this gone on so long without compromise? I didnt come from a time of "Greed to sale" so this has never intrigued me, my runs were almost exclusively for guilds, or eachother, not the server. I know its different now, but these prices make me sick.