Runes of Magic US / AU

Cd to iceblade breaks the class for maybe pvp, which is one hour a day, but not for pvp, the other 23 hours of playtime. I know a few end game p/s's on Reni and they can heal any end game instance very effectively. Before people realized the OPness of ice blade in siege/pvp the class was never considered broken. So saying it BREAKS the class is a bit over dramatic. You will still be able to heal any end game instance as a p/s with some changes to ice blade, lol. Now if all you do is play p/s for siege then it will feel like the class is being nerfed. Blanket statement such as "heals are useless in siege" and "OMG the class will be broken" are again not the truth.

I personally don't think that ice blade needs a CD, but yes make it act like every other projectile. Its really a combination of circumstances that make p/s so deadly. Instant ranged attack that doesn't act like a projectile at all, heals, immune's, and its just flat out easy to play in siege. People who play p/s in siege know how simple it can be to play effectively and of course they don't want to lose that. Just like playing a rogue can be easy.

The problem is there are too many trolls in this thread and to many people just flat out stating some serious BS on both sides of the argument so now this discussion has turned into a big pile of pooh.

Raves, I would love so see you swap out your gear with Nyyx or Risen and see how OP you would be in siege . BTW what instant skill are you going to spam on all of us? You have no full immune as a druid like holy aura. You have no instant spammable kills like ice blade. Like I said its the combination of many factors that really no other ranged magic class can duplicate. In between the squabbles I see a p/s has made a compromise, (Zandra) and that is have IB act like every other projectile, like i stated above, but people are so busy just wanting to argue .

Quoted from "Ravesden;527259"

If a mage were to let me borrow their gear for a day I'd be hitting *harder* than 86k.

Cool stuff. Too bad you can't do it with one skill that's instant and has no cool down and from 200 meters. =]

Brogue - really we're gonna throw out insults? isn't that troll in itself? and/or inciting more horrible arguing?

sigh.

again, heals aren't useless. healers rock. love to healers.

Many P/S have spent a ton of money gearing the way they want - as a damage dealer. Because they're able to, and with good reasoning behind it. But not all are able to have a healing set and a DPS set.

As you say, put a CD on it, and they'll have to play the class another way for PVE to be viable. Play it another way from the way that they've been working on, spending a lot of money and time on. Over night, all that work for a class that takes a major set back.

That's what I mean by breaking the class. To have to play a class a different way because of something that happens during an overnight patch - that's breaking a class' old way of play. There's no need for it, and I'm glad you agree.

don't insult pooh bear, he's the man.

Quoted from "Cronrs;527266"

p/s is up to par with any current dps class in pvp

iv seen hits like these in sw

w/r hit 320k
on r/s iv hit 420k
w/m 460k
m/w 560k
wd/s 230k
w/k 180k
p/s 80k
s/wd combo shot 3x 80k, shoot 190k double hit

point is damage is way out of whack in sw not p/s. plus just about all dps do not stat for siege they stat for pve so they are insanely squishy with huge amounts of PA... result? they hit really hard but they also get hit really hard. you check out few people who actually stat for pvp like the p/ks and the s/ks you see running around and they don't get hit nearly as hard.

At 92k patt buffed and 9kish damage, I can't hit past 180k on r/s. So either you're 200k+ patt buffed and 20k damage (which is not possible) or you're total bs that a rogue/scout can hit 420k IN SIEGE WAR.

Nope he is right. Pop all cd's + music + farm buff + premed blind spot and you can break 400k on a squishy. Is also about stating correctly, as in having enough physical attack.

What can I say, its 35+ pages and threads this long about these topics on this forum generally turn to pooh. Just gotta try not to step in to it .

PLEASE DO NOT STEP ON POOH.

He's yellow, loving, and just wants some honey. <33 He wears a Tshirt but no pants because that's how pimp he is.

But, if you see poo around, we should stay clear.

edit: though tigger >>>>> pooh. just sayin

I actually went through and tested the damage equation of Ice Blade back during the last thread on the topic.

1. The equation for IB doesn't allow it to do significantly more damage than Fireball in the same gear. It gets 10% more from the fairy buff, that's it. It also doesn't have that chance to cause extra damage that Fireball has.

2. Same for Lightning. 10% more damage.

3. Significantly less damage potential than most physical damage skills that it is being compared to like Low Blow. At maximum ratio (Atk >>> Def), level 70 IB maxes out at ~4.5 * MDam whereas LB maxes out at ~1300%-1400% DPS.

[EDIT:] The ~4.5 number is based on my rough estimate of the magic damage equation multiplied by 1.1 (fairy buff). It leaves out the water damage passive since it is roughly equivalent to (actually slightly less) the dagger passive.

4. Icewind Blade damage equation is ~50%-60% more than IB equation. They can't really be directly compared either. IB is more similar to simple instants like Fireball than it is to the big nukes like Magma Blade.

5. In mage gear, Druids have several instants that would hit roughly as hard as IB. The main problem is that their low CD skills are mostly DOTs, and DOTs suck. That's a completely unrelated issue to the IB issue though. The initial hit off Mother Nature's Wrath plus its initial tick is probably about the same for example. (Most people don't believe it I know, but the initial ticks were actually fixed to deal damage. At least in every skill that I have tested. The remaining bug is that the first hit is invisible. The target takes damage but the damage is not displayed in the console or graphically on the screen, so most people don't believe the damage is being done. I tested it extensively a couple months back though.)

5. P/S doesn't actually get a whole lot of extra damage in a DPS potential sense. With standard consumables (i.e. more Cast Speed), Rising Tide still produces more DPS. IB helps in other ways, mainly in the equation that deals with the Atk/Def ratio.

6. Since it was mentioned, D/W is in a different situation than it was in Chapter 3. In Chapter 3, it could be considered a DPS/healer hybrid. One of the Chapter 4 changes was a significant bump to the magic damage equation. Right now, while early on D/W can do decent DPS in a melee setup due to the Awakening of the Wild buff being quite significant early on, by end game my ball park numbers show a magic build D/W will have more DPS potential than physical build. That means D/W doesn't have a DPS edge over any other D/X combo, so they can't really be considered a DPS/healer hybrid anymore.

7. P/S can gear like a priest and stat like a mage with little effect on healing ability since wisdom's effect is capped for most skills. However, the "overpowered" priests that this thread is talking about are geared almost completely like mages. When you look into the healing equation, they are giving up something close to half of their healing ability to gear that way.

8. Question if anyone has an answer. When testing, I had thought that nearly all of the "XXX Blade" skills had roughly the same animations types and travel times. That is, it seems like all of the skills hit pretty much instantly. Pretty hard to get good results there though, since lag can make it really hard to tell sometimes. Anyone know definitively if these 4 skills work differently?

9. The one thing that is truly different about Ice Blade is that a small portion of its damage doesn't seem to roll against defense. That is what makes the class so nice for farming on priests with healer gear. They could do at least some damage without having to stat much attack.

10. Comparing broken elites from one combo to one of the best elites on another combo is just illogical. You can compare P/Rs infectious wounds to P/Ss IB on one hand, but then try comparing Quick Spellcasting to Saint's Blessing. By that logic, W/D is obviously better than R/S because Stifle is better than Substitute.

11. We should stop pretending that a nerf to P/Ss IB would break the class. After the boosts to the magic damage equation, a Chapter 4 P/S using RT is still probably better than a Chapter 3 P/S using IB.

P/S is like several classes in sw- easy as hell to play but harder to be *actually good at*.

Rogues, wardens, p/s... all easy to play, all harder to be good at (see whiney rogue post).

I also have no idea why the rogues hate on us so hard, since ffs, you kill us so easily unless we play smart, and you kill us even when we do play smart, cause we have cds. And it's impossible to stay inside eyes all the time. Well, not impossible, just not practical.

Anyway.

I call BS. This is part troll and part "Look over here, look over here! Rogues don't need to be nerfed, Iceblade does! Sure there's only like a handful of p/s's and there's umptybillion rogues and rogues are OP in PvE too and Iceblade isn't, but quick, hurry, we need a scapegoat!!1!"

Look, if you guys are feeling like the nerfbat is hanging over your head like a sword of Damocles, ok, fine. I would be worried too, cause Runewaker's track record on nerfing is, ummm, ugly. But don't start this useless crap. You think the dev's are gonna listen? I honestly don't think they will, cause it isn't needed. Rogue nerfing isn't needed either.

I said this in the whiney rogue thread and I'll say it again here: 90% of so-called siege "issues" could be fixed by "Lrn2Play." The other 10% could be fixed with an increase in the PvP damage reduction. People who know how to play aren't the ones whining. Only the nubs are.

Learn how to play your damned class, learn how to use some "stratergery", get some decent gear and quit your whining.

And learn to use Pazuzzu's new targeting marco ,/targetspecific("Fandreith") .

Quoted from "Malignatus;527120"

There's one problem, as I see it, with this idea: Even a "projectile-like" spell such as Fireball or Magma Blade will insta-kill a mob *before* you actually see the "projectile" hit the mob. Server and client/video lag contribute to this phenomenon. For example, I have a 69/60 M/D which regularly does the butterfly dailies in the Inferno Gardens. When I hit a butterfly with Fireball, it's dead before the Fireball visibly hits it. No question at all, I've literally seen it hundreds or thousands of times.

That's because they are stationary. First. There is a "windup" time from the point where the key is pressed to when the spell actually "casts" for FB, Cursed Fangs, etc. Flame is the slowest. With a stationary target, the damage appears sometime from when the "windup" is finished, never before. Typically there is about a second from clicking the skill to damage being done. Durring this time your apponent can continue to attack and, as mentioned before, even if the firball was enough to kill them when it lands, they can negate that by killing you first. (it is not uncommon to see 2x to 3x IBs hit in this time period).
Now if the target is moving away, as is comming in PVP, the damage will not be shown until the projectile "catches" them. If the caster dies, no damage. If they stop and the caster is alive, damage. If I cast a Cursed Fang at somone that is running away, not only can I see the damage hit them 2-3 seconds later, but I can see my focus go from full to empty in .1 seconds.

That's how it works. It isn't lag. It happens like this every. single. time.

Quoted from "Stagg3r;527362"

That's because they are stationary. First. There is a "windup" time from the point where the key is pressed to when the spell actually "casts" for FB, Cursed Fangs, etc. Flame is the slowest. With a stationary target, the damage appears sometime from when the "windup" is finished, never before. Typically there is about a second from clicking the skill to damage being done. Durring this time your apponent can continue to attack and, as mentioned before, even if the firball was enough to kill them when it lands, they can negate that by killing you first. (it is not uncommon to see 2x to 3x IBs hit in this time period).
Now if the target is moving away, as is comming in PVP, the damage will not be shown until the projectile "catches" them. If the caster dies, no damage. If they stop and the caster is alive, damage. If I cast a Cursed Fang at somone that is running away, not only can I see the damage hit them 2-3 seconds later, but I can see my focus go from full to empty in .1 seconds.

That's how it works. It isn't lag. It happens like this every. single. time.

Also from what I've seen the damage has to be recognized by the 'enemy's' client from the looks of it which is sorta stupid on RW's part but eh, the same goes for recognizing where their actual position is. Anyways there are lots of problems with how RoM was programmed though.

Quoted from "Stagg3r;527362"

That's because they are stationary. First. There is a "windup" time from the point where the key is pressed to when the spell actually "casts" for FB, Cursed Fangs, etc. Flame is the slowest. With a stationary target, the damage appears sometime from when the "windup" is finished, never before. Typically there is about a second from clicking the skill to damage being done. Durring this time your apponent can continue to attack and, as mentioned before, even if the firball was enough to kill them when it lands, they can negate that by killing you first. (it is not uncommon to see 2x to 3x IBs hit in this time period).
Now if the target is moving away, as is comming in PVP, the damage will not be shown until the projectile "catches" them. If the caster dies, no damage. If they stop and the caster is alive, damage. If I cast a Cursed Fang at somone that is running away, not only can I see the damage hit them 2-3 seconds later, but I can see my focus go from full to empty in .1 seconds.

That's how it works. It isn't lag. It happens like this every. single. time.

Ok, I will grant you the "I cast fireball and it chases someone for half an hour" thing. That's idiotic.

But, and I really truly, truly, truly do not know how to say this in a way that will make more sense than the last 7 times I have said it, but here goes:

No matter what a p/s does, it is IMPOSSIBLE to cast more than 1 Iceblade per second.

It's been tested. Some skills are wonky and let you "trick" the GCD; IB is not one of them. If you see three iceblade's hit you at the same time it is client to client lag, period, no question, no ambiguity, no wiggle room, no nothing.

Now, when I hit the button, yes, the skill doesn't chase you, it falls out of the sky instantly and smacks you in the face. I have no idea why all instants don't work that way, the chasing thing is idiotic. Projectiles maybe should have "travel time"- I have no idea why a magical skill should have such a thing. It's... magic. I dunno, sometimes this game makes no sense.

But, lemme reiterate this- there is no way to "trick" the GCD with Iceblade. People have tried- they have all failed. Iceblade can be cast once per second. Period.

Me loveth how Fandreith be tryin ter reason wit the irrational mob. Me gave up long ago, must stack more stam!

LOL One of my favorites is when a mage goes up on the wall pops all CD's falls off other side of the wall and .5 sec cast flame 50 times. Hmm...3 sec cast spell in less than .5? 150k flames to anybody in range. Please let me cast snipe like that hahaha. Yeah guess it takes alot of skill to spam 1 button...you know the same thing everybody QQed about in chap 3, they just hit shot over and over! I would love to use an actual rotation in PvP.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;527365"

No matter what a p/s does, it is IMPOSSIBLE to cast more than 1 Iceblade per second.

You should really stop saying that, in one second you hit with 2 iceblades, assuming you're not on Cooldown that is, works the same with any instant.

Iceblade > GCD of 1 second > Iceblade, that's 1 second or an average of .5 seconds per iceblade alternatively 2 iceblades per second, as long as you start with no GCD it will always be that way.

How many times do I have to go over basic math? -_-

Over time it's equal to one second approximately but it will never reach it.

at Fanny have you tried casting rising tide and then spamming the ib button?when rt hits it also hit with 3 to 4 ib at least when killing mobs for me.

Quoted from "Kefkai;527371"

You should really stop saying that, in one second you hit with 2 iceblades, assuming you're not on Cooldown that is, works the same with any instant.

Iceblade > GCD of 1 second > Iceblade, that's 1 second or an average of .5 seconds per iceblade alternatively 2 iceblades per second, as long as you start with no GCD it will always be that way.

How many times do I have to go over basic math? -_-

Over time it's equal to one second approximately but it will never reach it.

That's... really pedantic.

I mean, yes, if you take a snapshot of the time it takes to cast three iceblades, yes you can get three off in two seconds plus the amount of time it takes to hit the button three times, because you don't have to wait 1 second initially and you won't count the one second between the third and the hypothetical fourth. But it's a hair split. Iceblade has a 1-sec cd that is written in stone. No amount of math is going to let you escape that.

So, for math pedants:

Iceblade has a 1-sec CD that is unavoidable. You cannot cast Iceblade without incurring a one-second global cooldown.

The bit about three IB's hitting all at once being client to client lag still stands.
Happy now?

Quoted from "timthum;527377"

at Fanny have you tried casting rising tide and then spamming the ib button?when rt hits it also hit with 3 to 4 ib at least when killing mobs for me.

Matron, it may be that I have had too little sleep and too much coffee, but that didn't look like English. I can't figure out what you're trying to ask me

You mean cast Rising Tide and then spam Iceblade and then what? See how fast the damage ticks? You are saying that you can cast Rising Tide and get three Iceblades in before the RT actually hits the target?

I can test that I guess, if that's what you mean. I never use Rising Tide, pretty much ever. I don't dps bosses when I play p/s, and I can one-hit all non-elite mobs in game with one IB, so... not something I ever do or use. I'll test it when I get in game.

Or do you mean that Rising Tide hits for 3-4 times the damage of Ice Blade?

I iz confuzed.

Quoted

[COLOR=black !important]And learn to use Pazuzzu's new targeting marco ,/targetspecific("Fandreith") . [/COLOR]

lmao! that's it, ima clean out my fail comments and post it

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;527378"

That's... really pedantic.

I mean, yes, if you take a snapshot of the time it takes to cast three iceblades, yes you can get three off in two seconds plus the amount of time it takes to hit the button three times, because you don't have to wait 1 second initially and you won't count the one second between the third and the hypothetical fourth. But it's a hair split. Iceblade has a 1-sec cd that is written in stone. No amount of math is going to let you escape that.

So, for math pedants:

Iceblade has a 1-sec CD that is unavoidable. You cannot cast Iceblade without incurring a one-second global cooldown.

The bit about three IB's hitting all at once being client to client lag still stands.
Happy now?

Well just saying that you'll never hit two iceblades in one second is just plain untrue is my whole point, mainly because it's deceptive.

The thing is as long as you kill people one at a time you're going to be hitting them twice in a row (most likely before they can attack you back).

The only viable strategy against a P/S at this point is to kite them or be lucky enough to be able to get close to them atleast in a solo setting.

You know I'm not totally opposed to increasing the range of Silence myself as well to maybe 180 or even 200 atleast it'd be usable vs P/S by Mages seeing as the only mage types that are going to be one-hitting P/S anytime soon is M/Wd and M/D.