Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Bakken;526062"

I love all the P/S in this thread going NOOOO! THATS MY ONLY ATTACK!!!

different turn of argument, to all the p/s would a 3 second cooldown LIKE P/M HAS be so bad? You still get your OP skill and you'd still have you '1 shooting war' just not able to level groups of people in a few seconds.
Flame hits me for like 200k+ sometimes but it's got a huge cast time so I don't mind. IB and disarm just has to many positives, not like a rogue can lowblow 15 times to level a group we have energy.


also saying stack mdef? And what become useless to anything else as you have no stats? what a ridiculous idea <.<

Honestly your option for a 3 second cooldown comparing the skill to the p/m skill is a fail argument as well. The p/m skill does two types of damage as the ice blade does only one therefore the p/m skill hits harder and needs a longer cd. Only difference is a P/M has other instant cast skills they can use in between the cd's as a p/s only has 1 or 2. A P/M has a root, a silence, an ability to increase damage by so many points for a short time to make the damage hit harder, they also have an elite skill that increases the amount of damage done by water and wind damage just from hitting you with bone chill and then rooting you. Those combinations are just as deadly if used in a rotation but seeing as siege is a instant cast or hit thing where the one with the stronger initial hit first is going to win, whats the point of caster rotations.

Everyone keeps saying its pointless for a melee person to stack mdef well then you have a fail argument from the beginning because you lack whats needed to decrease the damage from a hit of the skill, Thats not our fault thats yours. Can't blame us for stacking mattk when you refuse to stack mdef and you get killed.

Your only true problem is that its a priest thats killing you, EVERYONE still believes that a priest is only for heals and can't kill anything. Well open your eyes. Priest are getting tired of the fact that all we can do is heal, or tired of the fact that everyone looks at us as just healers when we have so much more we can do. Druids are healer classes too, but no one complains about them EVER when they do damage and kill people, I've seen druids wipe the floor with some of you pattk users but no one ever says anything about that.... Y is that i'm wondering.... hmmm maybe because they are built with some dps skills already, including aoe's.

Thing is most of the time in PVE your going to see a priest as a P/K because its one of the strongest healer builds, if not the strongest. Then in PVP you see priest go P/S because its the main DPS spec for a Priest. Get over the fact that you just refuse to stack Mdef because you feel that priest are not supposed to do damage to you. Stop viewing priest as easy targets and realize you need to protect yourself from them.

Scream nerf all you want, if it does happen you'll just see a lot switch over to a P/M and wipe the floor with you too, only difference is they'll use a rotation and by the time you get out of root you be dead anyways. Oh wait then you'll scream nerf again because IWB hits to hard and we can still go immune and soul source. Either way it goes, your not going to be happy because a priest killed you. Thats not going to change unless you stack MDEF so stop saying nerf this and nerf that if your not built right.

I hate to see how much you QQ when you see that the new class coming out has a skill that will heal the target of the target that you are DPSing

Quoted from "regentego;526059"

Huh im r/s I can kill one all day. But im looking at a much bigger picture, warriors, and knights, and wardens are ineffective in siege against a p/s. Other priests really don't stand a chance vs. a p/s. Many other classes have the tools to kill a rogue. Few classes have the tools to kill a p/s. I've seen mid ranged gear p/s wipe OP warriors, priest is designed to heal, support, and lessen damage, now add a spammable DPS skill and you have an imbalance.

See where im going here? Mage has roflstomp damage but lacks survivability, scout is ranged damage with detection skills, rogue is burst DPS with the ability to hide, warden im still not sure but Chiron hurts alot. Warrior varies greatly on its secondary but in a long fight they win which makes w/k super effective and annoying to kill. Knight is your best distraction he goes in first everyone goes for him while ranged dps pick them off.

Best use of a priest used to be a p/k and a s/k holding a tower, good luck against that tag team. Now priest has been watered down to three keys, Iceblade, holy Aura, and candy. Immunes and iceblade, I've hit p/s with VA and watch then run and bleed to death, im like really? Forgot how to heal? my gain I guess.

No class should be a one button spam fest, my attacks vary on situations in crowds im shadowstabbing and watch people drop from wraith attack, I use evasion, blind spot. Each battle is not a one size fits all spam fest. Nerf any one of my skills I will adapt. Nerf iceblade and you have alot of p/ks with alot of MA!

<--- warr/wdn i kill em easily dash + spam of potws = dead low def p/s, they arent that much of a threat "serenstum" key word unless you dont really know how to play effectively you die to a class that spams they cant do much against peeps with invis pots either or a warr/rogue (which i also have) with shadow step they get owned when u get close you're all just mad because u think you are better than u actually are, if two people are similarly geared it comes down to who plays better, so the problem is are u under geared or you need better strats for siege

actually as a rogue I pretty much never ever get killed by them.

this is a matter of pointing out obvious unbalanced skills not QQing in the slightest.

Quoted from "amilineni;526069"

I am not asking nerf some skill here. Just saying information to those who saying p/m icewindblade will hit harder than p/s iceblade.
with my old toon m/p/s(67/64/50) same gear, no buffs and bow
p/m icewind blade+57 (543 water damage+ 543 wind damage) = 33.10 k damage
p/s iceblade+50 only (400 water damage) = 31.2 k damage (same mob)
p/s iceblade+50 (400 water damage) + frost halo 10% iceblade damage increase = 34.4 k damage (same mob)

i didnt left decent gear on my old toon so tested with only root of nightmares staff and some junk gear.

Like to see this comparison with decent gear if anyone can do it. Thanks

Quoted from "amilineni;526076"

Like to see this comparison with decent gear if anyone can do it. Thanks

I can verify that this is most certainly true, but Eka has dropped mage side for a while now.

I don't get what's with all the P/M comparisons when P/M is really pretty gimped compared to P/S, the only real advantage it has is the root.

Quoted from "regentego;526064"

You're missing the premise of the debate, with the defensive tools a priest has there is no way they should have an OP dps skill. It does and has created an imbalance. You are all so focused on yourselves and clinging onto dear life to that skill. We learned from the scouts who spent hundreds to burn instances, don't show off you're ability to be immune and untouchable runewaker will hit you with a hammer. I see it coming, don't even need to ask for it at this point.

So... what are you lacking in defense? Substitute? Evasion? An ungodly amount of Dodge? Plus candy and a 6 second magic immunity food???

Candy is 4 seconds. I say, nerf Serenstrum and then whine about my immunes.

You just ignored my entire post because I'm right and you know it Ebil lol. Just admit it, you've been hoist on your own spendy/elitist petard. Apparently rogues are allowed to spend money to become OP and then they get to strut and brag about it, but a lowly priest isn't. Mhmmmm. I don't brag cause I'm spendy, and I'm not even close to OP yet (if OP is Yuhwa and Nyxx etc) and I'm not even close to them. You do though, that's your style, and that's fine lol. Apparently it's only OK when you do it though.

From Itisfinished:

Quoted

The problem is that IceBlade is like LowBlow except it has a range of 200 and doesn't require energy like LowBlow. 3 - 4 LowBlows and the rogue has nothing. IceBlade has unlimited amounts of energy(mana) so it can be spammed. And don't forget at a range of 200. Scouts need focus, rogues need energy...blah blah blah. mages need mana, but there skills have CD's. BTW, you can use IceBlade more that once during the CD. 3 hits per 2 shots of arrows on a scout.

It isn't at all like Low Blow. If it was like Low Blow, you'd have room to complain. That's a gross exaggeration. Rogues with half my gear low blow me for more than my iceblade crits. Since I have neither mdef nor def, I can see these things clearly. You get hit with low blow a lot less hard than I do because you have def but no mdef. You have dex too, so the "low blow ignores pdef and goes vs dex" thing doesn't hurt you as much either. This really is all about how melee wants magic to get nerfed cause they don't have mdef.

And we need mana the way a scout needs focus. How often do you run out of Focus Its? Ever? Spamming those Wind Arrows, are yah? I have a level 70 s/r/wd, I know how much Focus you use, and if you do run out, blame the Rogues for all that Detection you have to use lol. I wish they made a 100% mana pot lol. That's not even a straw man, it's a straw kitten.

I love it when s/k's whine about p/s's cause we have a skill that works the exact same way. Disarmament much? Where's Gigi again? At least Ice Blade doesn't go through walls and ignore LoS . Your "hollow points" are my ice blades Its. And they both use mana don't they? Oh the irony. S/K complaining about P/S is the absolute height of hypocrisy.

"Only I should be allowed to run around with a ranged spammable skill. Only I should be able to do 300+ kills per night, and be unkillable at the same time. Only a scout should ever be allowed to get this leet. Eat my hollow points, and get back behind your scout/knight where you belong you uppity priest."

LOL.

I feel somewhat superior now, since I defend you guys when people call for rogue and scout nerfs. When I get disarmed by Kanu for 120k, I don't whine. When I get low-blowed by someone for 140k, I don't whine either.

Suddenly I am understanding the people who say "QQ moar, your tears feed me." It's not nice, exactly, but it is fun to see the melee suffer for once, since they never have to do it any other time.

P/M is far from gimped, just people bored and don't play anymore.Most were statted healer anyways. P/M is decent pvp.
P/M has at least 4 instacasts (rising tide,fireball,lightning,icewind dale) granted most have cd's but rotation is the key.

P/S shouldn't/won't get a nerf. I remember back when this forum was full of same topics about rogue and nothing has changed still, so don't get your hopes up.
No class needs nerf, need some skills on other classes to be comparable. For example p/r needs some better skills as p/r is high magic damage (offhand) and high crit class. So doesn't r/p needs some work.

Most p/s' i encounter are dead in a arrow or two before they can even heal. There is only a couple that give trouble and are op and skilled that stay alive and maybe even kill me.

Nothing but fun

Its not fair that a rogue or scout can siege with the same gears that they use for Tosh for example and be a top killer. You think these p/s's using their same pve gears?

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;526078"

*Insert Uber Long Fandreith Epic Post Here*

Oh Fandreith... oh Fandreith Fandreith Fandreith.. I Love You.

Quoted from "Kefkai;526077"

I can verify that this is most certainly true, but Eka has dropped mage side for a while now.

I don't get what's with all the P/M comparisons when P/M is really pretty gimped compared to P/S, the only real advantage it has is the root.

yes but that damage variation shows iceblade is either broken skill or ignoring some part of magdef. Thats why interested to see the real variation with decent gear.

Quoted from "amilineni;526081"

yes but that damage variation shows iceblade is either broken skill or ignoring some part of magdef. Thats why interested to see the real variation with decent gear.

Are those tests with the water fairy? And the embrace of the water spirit buff? That would account for some damage increase. Water Fairy is 10% damage and embrace is 7.3% more matk at 70. I'm too lazy to go back and actually look if the original post said. xD

Quoted from "Borella;526082"

Are those tests with the water fairy? And the embrace of the water spirit buff? That would account for some damage increase. Water Fairy is 10% damage and embrace is 7.3% more matk at 70. I'm too lazy to go back and actually look if the original post said. xD

no magical attack buffs but mentioned damage variation for iceblade without halo effect and iceblade with halo effect.

Once again Regentego, you address me without answering a simple yes or no question. This is the second time. Instead, you go on and on about the same thing that really just makes you sound like a big hypocrite. It's like you don't even read people responding to your statements and just spit out the same thing again.

First thing's first, the scout nerf wasn't a hammer. They're perfectly viable and still pull massive DPS, even now. Wtf are you talking about?

Everyone's pointing at rogues because they're the real OP class in PVP.

Both you and Bakken are crying about how OP this class is, and omg it owns everybody, but then you both say "But I still kick it's butt." If class A is OP, and class B kills class A, what does that make class B?

Rogues are insanely unbalanced in terms of PVP, and if P/S is addressed, even though it shouldn't be, BUT IF IT IS addressed first before rogues, you can pretty much call FA and RW fail game companies.

You say other classes stand a chance against a rogue. Which?

If there is a P/S spamming Ice Blade and a mage or any other class hasn't silenced or CCed it in some way, you're in a fail guild or group. Seriously. Learn to play at that point. Shadow prison, silence, any sort of stun.. christ. I really hope you're joking when you say a P/S wrecks through the whole team, otherwise.. wow.

Stop acting like a Priest's five minute skill really does that much in PVP. Really? You survived one hit, hit your five minute CD, but by the time it goes off and you're ready to attempt to go on the offense, chances are you're already dead again. Once again, this is a one-hit fest system of PVP.

Brakken, all the P/S and people who are aware of skills are up in arms and are acting like it's their only attack because it's pretty much the skill that made the combo. It's not the only attack, but it sure as hell is the main one.

Don't talk about candy because any class can use it.

Everyone should stop comparing P/S's Ice Blade with to P/M's skill unless they know how they work first.

Quoted from "regentego;526064"

You're missing the premise of the debate, with the defensive tools a priest has there is no way they should have an OP dps skill. It does and has created an imbalance. You are all so focused on yourselves and clinging onto dear life to that skill. We learned from the scouts who spent hundreds to burn instances, don't show off you're ability to be immune and untouchable runewaker will hit you with a hammer. I see it coming, don't even need to ask for it at this point.

This whole post can basically go to rogues as well, regen.

And read what you said. Scouts burned in instances like Gods. That's PVE! There's a big, big difference between PVE and PVP. Please do not get them confused, and do not compare the two.

Defensive tools of a priest? Really? You mean the heals that have cast times? If you're within range of a priest, and a priest is healing, if you haven't silenced/stunned/interrupted that heal and kicked that priest's brains in, you're doing it wrong. The regenerate? Laughable HOT. And curing shot takes way too long to cast to even consider in a PVP fight.

Rogues, on the other hand, have arguably the best CC in game. On top of that, we can hide and assure that we always get the first shot. In case that wasn't enough, our first shot is a freakin' stun (if you're undergeared, if you're not, just use low blow! it wins!) That = win. Us winning against every class in PVP is what makes rogues OP in PVP.

Nerf Ice Blade, and you pretty much kill the class combo. Just because it's strong in a bad PVP system doesn't mean you should nerf it. Think about what it'd mean for the P/S in PVE, who already aren't that great.

So I ask again, do you really want to go through a chain of nerfs to P/S and rogues and whatever else needs nerfing because of a broken way of PVP? Or wouldn't it be more smart to fix the broken PVP system itself?

Quoted from "amilineni;526069"

I am not asking nerf some skill here. Just saying information to those who saying p/m icewindblade will hit harder than p/s iceblade.
with my old toon m/p/s(67/64/50) same gear, no buffs and bow
p/m icewind blade+57 (543 water damage+ 543 wind damage) = 33.10 k damage
p/s iceblade+50 only (400 water damage) = 31.2 k damage (same mob)
p/s iceblade+50 (400 water damage) + frost halo 10% iceblade damage increase = 34.4 k damage (same mob)

i didnt left decent gear on my old toon so tested with only root of nightmares staff and some junk gear.

I call BS on this. So i just went completely unbuffed to TB and icebladed something for about 120k, then used icewind blade on the same mob for 97k + 65k = 162k.

Oh and did I mention that my iceblade is lv70 and icewind blade is lv52... Argument against mobs is invalid. Now someone go do it in pvp cause im too lazy and really dont care at this point

If you play siege in a way that is reliant on gear only, and you caveman your way through every encounter, yes- p/s is going to give you lots of trouble.

If however, you use your skills, your team, your defenses correctly, you won't have crazy issues with p/s.

This is why some rogues and scouts wonder why people complain about p/s's and others go batsnot insane.

Lemme give you two scenarios:

Siege A) I grab and hold right middle tower, and get fots and eyes down. I hunker back behind a rock, in tiny-frog mode, inside an eye. I watch 20 people come running up the bridge toward me. I get my HoT's (lol) and my priest shield on, and get ready. Five of the twenty people are in front, and instead of grouping up, they stream in in ones and twos, going straight for the guards, never seeing my pet and my water fairy (which despite tiny-frog are clearly visible, and a sign shouting "OH CRAP A P/S IS HERE!"). Any guesses as to what happens? I pick off the ones knocked down by the guards in seconds, and by that time, three more have arrived. They come running right in and I pick them off too. A completely idiotic rogue is sitting there with his mouth hanging open, stunned, and I pick him off.

By that time the other ten is streaming forward, and I move from behind my rock, strafe off to one side, flank them and take them from the side and the back. If they have a strong player I use my immunes and soul source. Usually 2 or 3 people run back down the bridge, and I pop my "run fast" macro, chase em down and kill them.

In Siege A people repeat this fail strategy over and over and over again, and I get hundreds and hundreds of kills. Mind you, I am not alone at the tower, I am not the only one killing, and I will die and have to run back at times.

Siege B) I take right middle tower and fots eyes blah blah. I see twenty people coming over the bridge. They all come up in a big group, and they have their healers right behind their strong dps. When they get close, they see the water fairy and hold. They send their strongest healer in to aggro the guards. I try and kill the healer, but I fail because she's being chain healed. They get the guards down. Now they send in a warrior with a pocket healer and he stays back out of IB range, serenstrums, charges me and tries for a 1-hit. This almost always works, unless I see ahead of time that they have a warrior in the group. Then I have a chance to candy or immune, but it has to be off CD. Usually I die, and then my group has to defend the tower without me, and since we only have a few in guild who are ToSH geared, and I am that side's anchor, this is difficult.

Siege B has people in it who think, and even if they are not ToSH geared, they can take me down using strategy, and it becomes easier for them as siege progresses and towers become available. They can walk defenses up to my own defensive emplacements, they will have fearless available, and they can use scrolls and other things to get to me at range. They can even send in a m/d to take me out easily with Magma Blade, since it has more range than IB.

Thinking people don't think p/s needs a nerf. People who caveman every siege and play singleton do, because they can't beastmode a p/s. Well, they can beastmode a p/s who doesn't think. But IB doesn't need a nerf as much as people just need to learn to play.

Going to post what Nyyx said in guild, since she apparently "doesnt like drama":

"I don't get why the try to compare p/m to p/s. p/m gets int bonus, fireball, lightning, silence, mdmg increase for a bit, icewind blade. p/s gets embrace, a bow, and iceblade" In other words: Theyre 2 different classes.

Anyways, Nyyx and I did some tests. She used both p/m, p/s and m/p on my d/s with 175k mdef and 7935 magical resistance. Here are the results:

P/M Unbuffed: 10.3k mdmg, 70.6k matk, 70% crit
Fireball crit 16k
Icewind blade 17k crit
lightning: resisted too much

P/M Buffed: 11.778k mdmg, 84.3k matk, 70%crit 22k int
lightning: 15k
icewindblade 12.7k
fireball 22k

P/S Unbuffed: 10.481k mdmg 68.4k matk, 72% crit
iceblade crit 31k

P/S Buffed: 12k mdmg, 88k mattk, 72% crit, 20.6k int
iceblade: 46k crit
without fairy: 43k

M/P Unbuffed: 10.28k mdmg, 76k matk, 70% crit, 18.4k int
Fireball: double crit, 22k, 16k
Flame: double crit 74k
Lightning 26k
Flame dance: 44k

M/P Full Buffed: 11.77k mdmg, 91.2k matk, 70% crit, 22k int
ferret sickle:51.5k
fireball : double crit 33k 25k
lightning: 26k
flame: 76k

Nerf the damn wardens, they be always killing me with that darned thorny briar thing.

Quoted from "Ravesden;526090"

P/M Unbuffed: 10.3k mdmg, 70.6k matk, 70% crit
Fireball crit 16k
Icewind blade 17k crit
lightning: resisted too much

P/M Buffed: 11.778k mdmg, 84.3k matk, 70%crit 22k int

lightning: 15k
icewindblade 12.7k
fireball 22k

How did icewind blade damage decrease when fully buffed? And do you have the numbers for water damage and wind damage separate then together on double crits. like was it 10k +7k to get to that 17k total

How about you guys learn to do average damage, do atleast 20 hits from each and average the hits, one hit is absolutely meaningless since there's a lot of variation involved, even 10 hits would suffice.

Quoted from "Quaffy2;526093"

How did icewind blade damage decrease when fully buffed? And do you have the numbers for water damage and wind damage separate then together on double crits. like was it 10k +7k to get to that 17k total

I would assume one would be a crit, and one not. However, those numbers are inconclusive because they don't show the same skills, crits, and non-crits for each set.

Quoted from "sabrione;526095"

I would assume one would be a crit, and one not. However, those numbers are inconclusive because they don't show the same skills, crits, and non-crits for each set.

Yeah, i see that now. It doesn't really help all that much to compare a crit to a non crit though. And I think it would be nice to see the breakdown in IWB, to be sure it took into account both hits and their crit damages. Oh, and just for clarification were both IB and IWB lv70?

Regardless of the numbers, I'm not sure why p/m has to do >= the damage of a p/s anyway...different class is a different class.