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KingCut

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 9:30pm

diamonds! we miss you!

i dont know if frogster is trying to make this game die out or somthing... we need diamond sales.. not a 50% once in a blue moon... a double diamond sale at least.. like we used to get all the time... when people actually gave their hard earned rl money for an ingame currency, and proper sales in the diamond shop... none of this putting stuff on sale for next to no savings.. or costing more then the normal price.. or putting on junk we dont need instead of what people always need

.. we dont have an npc on us servers that give us diamonds or anything like that. and this game was designed to cost an insane ammount of diamonds to even play it yet u dont wanna put them on sale.. so all the players who normally buy diamonds refuse to buy them at regular price because there getting ripped off for the imaginary product that is too expensive when its on sale,, let alone regular price

Just so u know frogster.. in the game YOU run.. people need certain things to play... u guys should know this since it was designed this way for max profit

Purified fusion stones
.. sell the small med or large packs so people can stock up... these are always needed for people to teir up or rip stats

ADVANCED unbinders
... seriously... people cant sell the drops they get unless they have these... we dont need regular unbinders every single week while NEVER putting these on sale

megaphones
... in large ammounts please and cheap.. 2 dias to say somthing in world is crazy expensive. 1 dia to send a wc is still nuts 0.5 or less wouldnt be to much to ask for somthing that is basicly just wasted is it? oh and i do love to waste these =) ask anybody!! i never shut up!!

Arcane transmuter charges... again.. in large ammounts please and cheap... you think selling them so expensive makes u money? most people prefer to make alts for charges instead of wasting all their money on an insane expensive charges that they need an insane ammount of... if you put these on sale in large ammounts and made them cheap enough that it would actually worth buying them to save time then people would be giving you guys money instead of spending a whole lot of their time to get them for free..


DOUBLE DIAMONDS please. we are dying here


oh and btw... the PVP package is COMPLETLY USELESS ON PVE so we really dont need the sales on artemis thanx...

2

Thursday, May 31st 2012, 9:50pm

I believe froggie is trying to make us "appreciate" diamonds. Like, the dia prices are "fair" and any sale ( even the 50% sale ) is a sale. But that kinda thing never works... alienating your customers always ends poorly.

Dionaea

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 9:58pm

I gladly forward your suggestions.

There is one point though I would like to address:

Quoted

like we used to get all the time


This is surely something that was part of the ongoing revamp process for sales strategies. We had users complaining that the diamond sales were too often, putting pressure on them to have to buy, feeling poked and pushed to buying, that sales are supposed to be special and not the new norm.

Which is basically indeed true, the sales used to be too often, rendering the regular price less accepted. A sale is supposed to be something special outside the norm and not the regular pricing.

I gladly forward that you wish for better diamond sales again more often as well as your suggestions and feedback for sales offers.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:02pm

What they are learning it at least SHOULD learn is to appreciate us and our money. I work for my money, frogster doesn't just get it for existing. CS prices are too high, right now an ABL costs $4, yeah $4. Wake up Frogster this isn't a new problem or complaint. So guess what, I vendor my drops.

A new player could really use a HD Atrocity from lvl 55-65, but nope I vendored it, $4 is too much to sell it for 8 mil gold. Then you have new players who can't upgrade quickly cause dl/zs is once a day. You lose people before they get started, I'm all for profit, but it crossed the line to greed.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:06pm

Quoted from "Dionaea;533626"

I gladly forward your suggestions.

There is one point though I would like to address:



This is surely something that was part of the ongoing revamp process for sales strategies. We had users complaining that the diamond sales were too often, putting pressure on them to have to buy, feeling poked and pushed to buying, that sales are supposed to be special and not the new norm.

Which is basically indeed true, the sales used to be too often, rendering the regular price less accepted. A sale is supposed to be something special outside the norm and not the regular pricing.

I gladly forward that you wish for better diamond sales again more often as well as your suggestions and feedback for sales offers.


The thing is, its kind of important now, no? To have the gear that allows players to stock up for the new chapter. Itemshop items are necessary to gear up and progress in this game, which means people are looking to stock up on puris, and possibly abls to help their guild out.

When deals are done like they are currently (higher prices, super high. All they are doing is scaring the people who buy diamonds away because now they are waiting off for a deal. Should I buy this at 99 IN FEAR that they will raise it again? Some people may start stocking up on things when they are only ON sale because they know they are going to have their eyes ripped out when there isn't a sale) people are only going to buy on specials, and never on regular occassions. Its really an easy fix. Make the standard lower, and the promos even lower... people will buy all the time.

Some of the deals have been completely bonkers. Idk what the 5x puri packs were recently, but if it was a 125 dia deal on a promo, and then a 135 or 140 w/o a promo... People would buy a few w/o the promo, but stacks and stacks on the promo. But when you go from 39 dias promo to 99 diamonds......... I was just about ready to quit. And everyone had left to go to D3. The playerbase is crumbling.

Instead of trying to keep them to stay, you are letting them leave, hoping that CH5 brings them back.


~Fly into the distance, disappear for awhile~

regentego

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:06pm

Quoted from "Dionaea;533626"

I gladly forward your suggestions.

There is one point though I would like to address:



This is surely something that was part of the ongoing revamp process for sales strategies. We had users complaining that the diamond sales were too often, putting pressure on them to have to buy, feeling poked and pushed to buying, that sales are supposed to be special and not the new norm.

Which is basically indeed true, the sales used to be too often, rendering the regular price less accepted. A sale is supposed to be something special outside the norm and not the regular pricing.

I gladly forward that you wish for better diamond sales again more often as well as your suggestions and feedback for sales offers.



Wow, who complained about too many sales? What a few people, that's selective feedback. The normal prices are over priced for the amount of diamonds you get vs inflated CS prices.

If this is the new case, well I'll have to start looking at being totally f2p then. Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: Do you GMs even play endgame? I doubt anyone within frogster does, and if they do its got to be with company diamonds, omg 99 diamonds is $4 at regular price, is anything virtual worth $4? 99 diamonds is a low price point here. You're killing me, you GMs avoid the 2000lb pink elephant in the room!

7

Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:11pm

to be fair, I do remember a bunch of ppl complain that there were too many dia sales BUT the problem there was that there was NOTHING correspondingly good for sale in the Item Shoppe. ie, there would be a 2x dia sale & we'd have a sale on transport runes and exp pots. Then there wouldn't be any sales around & the sales team would have 3 adv. bindlifters for 99 dias.

KingCut

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:13pm

Quoted from "Dionaea;533626"

I gladly forward your suggestions.

There is one point though I would like to address:



This is surely something that was part of the ongoing revamp process for sales strategies. We had users complaining that the diamond sales were too often, putting pressure on them to have to buy, feeling poked and pushed to buying, that sales are supposed to be special and not the new norm.

Which is basically indeed true, the sales used to be too often, rendering the regular price less accepted. A sale is supposed to be something special outside the norm and not the regular pricing.

I gladly forward that you wish for better diamond sales again more often as well as your suggestions and feedback for sales offers.


wait people complained that they werent spending enough of their hard earned real life money on this game? i highly doubt that lol. even with double diamonds and buying items only when they are on sale it costs a bloody fortune to play this game.

the regular price should not be accepted because its a complete rip off

9

Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:15pm

From what I remember on Reni, ppl were getting pissed because they'd buy dias @ 110% & then 2 days later, it'd be 130% or so.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:19pm

Quoted from "ycavan;533636"

From what I remember on Reni, ppl were getting pissed because they'd buy dias @ 110% & then 2 days later, it'd be 130% or so.



Yeah but it's Reni, Reni loves to fight over anything, I've seen whole threads turn into people from Reni arguing. Plus Wiffo probably complained about too many sales.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:21pm

I kinda sorta agree with Dion, the earlier sales were a little ridiculous. You would have had to be a fool to buy at normal prices when you could just wait a week for a sale. So, I bet there were very few buyers at regular prices which led to an inconsistent income stream. Business' typically like consistent income so they can plan accordingly...makes things simpler. With an occasional sale to spike interest. Their problem was what to do to recover from a bad sales plan. From the complaints here and in the other threads, my guess is the community of customers did not really buy into their solution, which was to cut back the frequency and the quality of their sales without an accompanying drop in base price. So the impression is, yes, we are getting less for our money.

They could have reduced the impact of this "impression" by a lowering of the base item prices, perhaps as little as 10%, perhaps more. Problem is they only went one way; like a one sided conversation, the other side feels left out.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:29pm

Quoted from "Auros;533641"

I kinda sorta agree with Dion, the earlier sales were a little ridiculous. You would have had to be a fool to buy at normal prices when you could just wait a week for a sale. So, I bet there were very few buyers at regular prices which led to an inconsistent income stream. Business' typically like consistent income so they can plan accordingly...makes things simpler. With an occasional sale to spike interest. Their problem was what to do to recover from a bad sales plan. From the complaints here and in the other threads, my guess is the community of customers did not really buy into their solution, which was to cut back the frequency and the quality of their sales without an accompanying drop in base price. So the impression is, yes, we are getting less for our money.

They could have reduced the impact of this "impression" by a lowering of the base item prices, perhaps as little as 10%, perhaps more. Problem is they only went one way; like a one sided conversation, the other side feels left out.



Disagree strongly, they went from consistent income from sales to probably a reduction in revenue by 70%. I have always used the CS but you would need to drop it by 60% for me to buy at normal prices. Frankly that response from Dio is going to cause people to log off for good. Essentially saying "Sorry kids, its regular price from here on out"

I can just see people now reading that and going "Not up in here!"

13

Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:35pm

Quoted from "regentego;533640"

Yeah but it's Reni, Reni loves to fight over anything, I've seen whole threads turn into people from Reni arguing. Plus Wiffo probably complained about too many sales.


Naaaah.... this is one of those rare cases where I said to myself "you know, Ebil makes sense for once". As I recall, the argument offered by you was that while we have no item shop sales that were significantly impressive, there were dia sales that were good; and smart people would stock up dias when on good sale, and then stock up on item shop items when on good sale.

Reni does like to argue, yes. But we dont have Fan, so we have to go for numbers rather than volume.
-- Rustyx --- 92R / 92S / 92M on Reni (Guild KnightShift). Yes, running the new FOTM R/M, cause I am not elf enough to be WD/S.

Oh, and people who have more than 3 classes are clinically insane.


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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:43pm

Quoted from "regentego;533643"

Disagree strongly, they went from consistent income from sales to probably a reduction in revenue by 70%. I have always used the CS but you would need to drop it by 60% for me to buy at normal prices. Frankly that response from Dio is going to cause people to log off for good. Essentially saying "Sorry kids, its regular price from here on out"

I can just see people now reading that and going "Not up in here!"


I thought you were a businessperson? Almost by definition you cannot get consistent income from sales. I guess you could have a sale going 100% of the time, but then it wouldn't really be a sale then would it? Regardless, I see your number is 60%, whereas I stated 10% or more. Fine, your line in the sand is 60, for others it will be less. Would be nice if they tried it to see what the response would be.

KingCut

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:45pm

If people get more for their money they spend more.

theres a reason places like wallmart make so much. and its not by having a better product.

im sure if runes of magic players had a game free of basicly every problem a gamer could think of. and had proper customer support, they wouldnt mind spending more on the game.. but when u offer less and then charge more... yer doomed to fail... imagine if mcdonalds had $30 cheeseburgers.. would u see one in every neighborhood? sure they make more per burger.. but when yer selling 1 burger instead of 3000 per day then your not making more money yer making less.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 10:46pm

Simply put, diamond buyers are extinct on Reni. You might find one selling about 200 diamonds at 45k a pop right now- but that's it.

Dionaea, I would be very interested to see the sales figures for the game at this point, since this new "strategy" was implemented. I'm sure we all sound like greedy little Scrooges, complaining and hoarding our cash until the company is forced to place a sale in.

Truth be told, double diamonds really were the only way the economy in-game was sustainable. Having double diamond sales meant gear got out to the players who were F2P, the raiders were able to purchase adv packs from zeevex buyers, and everyone in the game was able to contribute to creating a playable game across all levels and stages of progression.

There's an impact that really kind of scares me right now. I am scared by the number of people I've seen leaving due to the present sales strategy. Some of our best old-school, seasoned players just up and quit thanks to not being able to afford the raids.

While I can see why you think sales should be a "special" thing, the game's mechanics coupled with the current sales strategy means everyone loses. The parent companies lose the income from those who would have spent on virtual items if they'd been on sale, coupled with a diamond sale. They lose more income from players who refuse to pay full price for an item, despite that a player has to use CS items in order to run some of the game content. They lose even more when the playerbase starts to feel like it is being scammed out of actual money, which is what is occurring under the current sales strategy.

The players lose because they lose the ability to run content, they lose the drive to improve their characters, and they lose the drive to play the game.

Can we really not come to some sort of compromise? Maybe run a DD sale once every two weeks (and make it available the full day, that is very important!). But keeping it off the table completely is only going to result in the game going to an early grave.
In a world of black, white, and grey... I'd be bright friggin' purple. M/P on Reni.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 11:06pm

Quoted from "KingCut;533648"

If people get more for their money they spend more.

theres a reason places like wallmart make so much. and its not by having a better product.

im sure if runes of magic players had a game free of basicly every problem a gamer could think of. and had proper customer support, they wouldnt mind spending more on the game.. but when u offer less and then charge more... yer doomed to fail... imagine if mcdonalds had $30 cheeseburgers.. would u see one in every neighborhood? sure they make more per burger.. but when yer selling 1 burger instead of 3000 per day then your not making more money yer making less.


I could write a whole topic on why Walmart is successful, but I won't.

And I don't know, you might develop a niche crowd of McDonald goers who think that price shows quality, yes yes I could see it now, McDonalds is the new Ruth Chris.

Also as for daily sales for example, they suck lately, sure putting everything inside the itemshop into a daily sale sounds like a good idea, but absolutely no one is going to buy the Lightweight Pet Crafting materials for example, and with no diamond sales lately, people are going to more likely buy from just daily sales, and those suck? Just seems like revenue lost all around.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 11:06pm

I know myself and a few guildies each bought diamonds 2 or 3 times during 150%+ or better sales during the past year. I also know that none of us is planning to buy again until an equal or better sale comes along. Instead, we are all learning ways to play without spending real money. We are farming dog meat or instances like Clops and KS to sell gear drops to vendors for gold and training ourselves to be more patient. More and more people are opting to dirty-stat their level 55 and 60 gear because they can't afford the puris. The nice part is that I think we are developing better cooperative playing skills--helping each other to all play for free. It's great, and we're having fun, but is it sustainable for Frogster? We all know RoM is marketed as free-to-play, but how long can the game survive if too many of us continue to choose that option to avoid the excessive costs?

In short, the lack of current diamond sales is not only hurting Frogster's current income, but it is encouraging some of us to find ways to play that will allow us to spend less in the future too.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 11:18pm

Quoted from "Auros;533647"

I thought you were a businessperson? Almost by definition you cannot get consistent income from sales. I guess you could have a sale going 100% of the time, but then it wouldn't really be a sale then would it? Regardless, I see your number is 60%, whereas I stated 10% or more. Fine, your line in the sand is 60, for others it will be less. Would be nice if they tried it to see what the response would be.


Why yes I am a business man, so I ran the numbers, one piece of gear, 6 puris 199 diamonds, +1-12 215 diamonds, 4 rune slots 70 diamonds, plus rubies. These are SALE prices bare minimum. Yup $20 for one piece of gear. And you better hope no jewels fail.

This is not a sustainable business model, AND it leaves no diamonds left over for the F2P.

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Thursday, May 31st 2012, 11:27pm

Quoted from "Dionaea;533626"

I gladly forward your suggestions.

There is one point though I would like to address:



This is surely something that was part of the ongoing revamp process for sales strategies. We had users complaining that the diamond sales were too often, putting pressure on them to have to buy, feeling poked and pushed to buying, that sales are supposed to be special and not the new norm.

Which is basically indeed true, the sales used to be too often, rendering the regular price less accepted. A sale is supposed to be something special outside the norm and not the regular pricing.

I gladly forward that you wish for better diamond sales again more often as well as your suggestions and feedback for sales offers.


I have looked at these forums since the day I started this game and tbh this response has been the same response since the diamond sale disappeared. Apparently just forwarding our suggestions is not going to cut it anymore. I would seriously love the link to the sales team so that I could send them my thoughts personally because the forwarding thing isn't working just like their sales aren't.

As for people complaining about the sales the only thing i heard was that fact that the item shop stuff sucked at the time and they didnt need the diamonds. So seeing how the item stuff has sucked lately is that the reason we havent had the diamond sales? Afterall what is there to buy with them if this is your logic.

@kingcut I like your sales suggestions, we do need things that people actually use on a regular basis to go on sale and not just in gasha's where there is a chance to get what you need.

Froggy if you want people to leave your game continue doing what you are. HOWEVER if you want people to stay and to come back start listening...and btw I would be happy to translate all this into German if it would make it easier for them to understand