Runes of Magic US / AU

Blake, I think you are missing the point.

In Chapter 3, it was pretty much obvious that RT plat wasn't meant to be cleared any time soon. It was just too difficult. However, Scouts overcame that little problem and equipped everyone with RT plat weapons, which then completely trivialised the rest of the content. KT was then released early (as was pretty apparent) but Scouts weren't properly fixed until Ch4.

So no class could have gotten RT plat weapons without Scouts in Ch3. And while non-Scout parties could attempt the content, and clear it to an extent - they certainly needed unbound gear from Scouts to keep up. And even when people like Trunks were running RT/KT that took hours for a full run. I remember one Scout explaining how he wasn't OP as in his 26 KT runs last night his crit-rate was only x.

And also for Mages and Wardens in particular it was nearly impossible to run the content and be useful that you needed to improve. You had to gear up and then run the content.

However much you thought you were 'doing just fine', the game in Ch3 did not allow non-Scouts to be competitive, and did not allow Mages or Wardens to meaningfully contribute at the appropriate gear level.

Quoted from "tmblake09;542179"

Why not? You're going to use it on something you enjoy anyways, and if you enjoy playing the game, you might as well spend it on the game. Since I enjoy the game, I will spend it on the game.

Why not? Simple answer, there is a lot more in life that is way more rewarding, relevant, deserving & just plain value for money than RoM. You should get off your computer chair & have a look around, it may broaden your outlook somewhat.

No, Frogster does not deserve the money I spend on RoM & I certainly will not support their plans to get their hands on even more!

@KatalanOrk, Yes, that pretty much sums up my memory of chapter 3.

ok my turn and two cents ...lol

Guess I'll start with.. I started in open beta on the art server and there was a ton of ppl. My first full run in FA, yes i said "FA" was 3 hours, when i got to HoS it was a 5 hour run. boss Rage was something to worry about, there was NO 10-15 sec boss fights. Non-instance mob hit like mac truck if you weren't geared. ABLs were every once in a while, and guess what... ppl still had a lot of fun playing.

the new-old policy on the ABLs will effect us(mostly chap 3+ ppl) but the severs will adjust with time. yes ppl will cry and run away and you will be replaced. most of the gear will be venders or melted for gold/stats, ppl will find new/old ways to make gold. And ppl will still gear and lvl and maybe have a little fun while doing it.

Just a little side thought: first full HoS clear on Artemis server was a 12 hour run and was talked about for a month. now new places are cleared with-in , what? the first 3 hours after patch? and we talk about it for about 5 mins?

Quoted from "GarryL;542200"

Why not? Simple answer, there is a lot more in life that is way more rewarding, relevant, deserving & just plain value for money than RoM. You should get off your computer chair & have a look around, it may broaden your outlook somewhat.

No, Frogster does not deserve the money I spend on RoM & I certainly will not support their plans to get their hands on even more!

@KatalanOrk, Yes, that pretty much sums up my memory of chapter 3.

I think you missed my point, the point being it is a matter of opinion. If you enjoy the game, then there is no reason you shouldn't spend on it. You will simply find somewhere else to spend your money anyways, so you might as well spend it somewhere you are spending 95% of your time and that can aid in your enjoyment.

I'm not a wall of text guy so my summation.

1. We need to stop reinventing the wheel here, ultimately frogster will run the data and see server population. In addition sales figures will show player progression. I trust Frogster to make a move when they realize their sales and promo people made a horrible call in chapter 5.

2. Who on earth asks for their own thread to be stickied? I may be a world class jack@$$ bit that is even to pretentious for me to pull off.

Quoted from "regentego;542209"

I'm not a wall of text guy so my summation.

1. We need to stop reinventing the wheel here, ultimately frogster will run the data and see server population. In addition sales figures will show player progression. I trust Frogster to make a move when they realize their sales and promo people made a horrible call in chapter 5.

2. Who on earth asks for their own thread to be stickied? I may be a world class jack@$$ bit that is even to pretentious for me to pull off.

I dont know. this has to be the 8th or 9th thread on this topic. and ive yet to see a GM even acknowledge the complaint. as a big supporter and financer of this game, its making my wallet tighten up and emy empathy dissappear. I would like to believe as you, that they will see the error and correct it; if for no other reason than the impact on their bottom line. BUT i have been here long enough to know that is not the reflect their history .

Quoted from "tmblake09;542206"

I think you missed my point, the point being it is a matter of opinion. If you enjoy the game, then there is no reason you shouldn't spend on it. You will simply find somewhere else to spend your money anyways, so you might as well spend it somewhere you are spending 95% of your time and that can aid in your enjoyment.

I think you missed the point. There is spending money on a game, then there is being robbed blind by a game.

Back in the early days, it wasn't that expensive to create a set of gear. As a matter of fact, at level 50 the best gear in the game was free, you just had to gather the mats for it and it always dropped clean. Dirty stating was the accepted norm.

Next came HoTo and then HoS, Somewhere around here we got different dungeon modes and the harder modes started to drop "clean gear". The cost of gearing went up slightly as the temptation and need to clean stat gear became more desirable to clear content. If you stood any chance of clearing HoS, it was in mostly clean stated HoTo gear. And it wasn't a 15 minute trip, it was a 5+ hour ordeal with multiple wipes and a real cost in consumables.

Then we got AV and yet another re-gear. This one with a twist. A minimum of two deaths were built into the design of HoDL. There was no surviving alarms, which increased the costs in consumables of running the instance. You had to be in mostly clean stated HoS gear to run AV content. After a while of this, Frog further slowed down the progression by making lvl 55 instances available only once per day.

Next came chapter 3 and the infamous runes of scouts. HERE is where the cost of gearing shoots through the roof. Now you NEED clean stated gear and high tier weapons and tons of consumables.

Repeat costs for Chapter 4 and Chapter 5.

SO, my point being.... if I was a new player, and you were telling me to "progress" through the "game as intended" and do it on my own while incurring costs each progression, I would have some colorful descriptions as to exactly where you could place your advice.

Without access to higher level instance gear, a new player has no hope of running anything close to end-game content.

If they don't want to run end-game, then there is no reason to buy diamonds. So... how long do you think the game will survive if there is no real reason to buy diamonds? Reasons like people can't progress because they can't buy or get gear... and they can't get gear because there are no end-gamers either providing it or providing the means to get it... or there are no folks running instances because there is no incentive to run them?

Your idea of forcing people along a broken progression path will kill this game faster than Frog is already doing.

To the moderators please. Why do we have to log in everyday to a new "Flogging the dead ABL (horse) thread"?
Nothing else to see here but forum ratings for certain folks.....Drive thru.

I like the way they have the ABL's now.I have been here since the Elves were released and also remember when the ABL's were promo or sale items only. Truthfully them beign returned to that state is not a biggy for me at all. This will give players a chance to run instances they would never had seen. People talking about broken instances need their heads examined. It is the OP players that roflstomp new instances just so they can flex their E-Peens. That is what needs to stop. I personaly like to take my time in an instance to learn it. I do not like to be carried through.
By taking the ABL's out of the picture Frogster has shut down one gold making opportunity, but so what. WHy does someone need so much gold anyways. Its not like it will ever be completely gone. You can always go amke some more. Oh wait that is right, some of you want instant gratification I forgot that.

This game will never be played the way Runewaker might want it to be.

Players will not be ruining lower level dungeons with people the same gear as them to improve. There is a very simple reason to why also. COST, it cost to much.

Say a party of 6 players joined, they only play together. for them to gain gear they have a few options, skill all content till max level and by shell gear or spend millions doing every dungeon and gearing.

Not sure about you but i cant get dl/zs gear state it all + it all then do this again with rt gear, kt gear, gc gear, gch gear, tosh gear and etc.

another problem with the game is guilds really, though we make the choice a lot of us are sheep. we join a guild, the guild is weak and not active but as sheep we stay in this dead guild till we quit the game.
I still see people in guilds that have been out for years but never even made it pass hos..

I agree with the original post of this thread, although my reasoning is slightly different (as is my attitude toward Mania. I don't harbor ill will towards anyone here, but I reserve the right to correct inaccurate statements or voice my opinion if it's different from the OP's idea):

The removal of ABL's as a permanent cash shop item meant the removal of choice for players, as I stated in another thread. It removed the choice to be able to sell gear on the AH. It removed the choice of a player to buy gear from another player in a period where there were no ABL sales for a while. It removed the ability to choose to farm the gear and made it a requirement.

Progression is at the core of this game. It is the heart and soul of Runes of Magic. In order to progress, a player has to:

(A) Find a group of people they enjoy playing with (because the content itself is not currently soloable past KT), (B) get gear so that they can not only survive but move through the content, and (c) modify the gear to their liking/playstyle.

I would be just as vocal if they removed, say, the instance runs from the game and put gear only in the IS, or removed questing in favor of daily reset tickets, or removed reset tickets in favor of making people quest.... It defeats the purpose of letting the player choose how they want to play the game, given the present methods with which we are given to do so.

I would vastly prefer to see gear drop Bind on Equip across the board. I think it would result in a lot more players using the cash shop to drill, plus, and rune their gear.

I see a major problem with these "ABL" threads - they won't change anything. With half the posts being "we love ABL's" and the other half being "ABL's suck", what is a CM reading this thread supposed to forward? "Hey, we love ABL's, they suck"?

these threads will just remain that - a whole pile of texts that Frog will never even consider listening to - assuming that they actually listen to us at all.

Here is my problem with this. Changing bind rules is not up to Frogs. RW has to do it, and they have to periodically revisit the process and change more gear, unless they make everything BOE, defeating the reason why BOP was in the first place. That ZS/DL gear might be considered enough of commodity now not to make it BOP, but it was not always so. RT gear goes from nobody "needing" OD pieces at lower difficulties to people forming runs specifically to farm that plat/diamond level earing. As levels go up, more gear would have to be changed, and I don't expect RW to be willing to go through the process of adding that to their to-do lists, or doing it in timely responsible manner.

I do want a lot more free trade, be it via BOEs or ABLs. Trade is good, and ABLs are not unreasonable way to collect "taxes" on that trade. Game trade is mostly gear, stats and commodities, and shutting down or restricting either of those has negative effect on progression. How would people feel if "let them farm their own gear" mindset was extended to "let them get their own stats" and "let them make their own hero pots"?

I have to laugh at people that say every new player should be gearing up through every instance sequentially. If you find it fun throwing away thousands of dollars to stat up and refine every single outdated gear set just so you can do the content as it came out...grats. The rest of us don't see a reason to do so, nor should we. No fresh 55 in their right mind is going to start farming and statting HotO gear.

If this game was relatively inexpensive when upgrading to a new set of gear, sure, I'd be all for sequential progression. As it is, however, it is one of the, if not THE most expensive MMORPG in terms of gear. I could name a few other games that have some pretty heavy costs at endgame...but they're one-time things. In RoM, you're paying that cost every time you get a new set. There is no reason for people to go through 3-4 sets before they actually get decent gear.

It has to be said that there are a bit too many over-reactions in this whole smorgasbord of forum fun.

No one is saying (well lets just ignore anyone that is :p) that you have to gear instance by instance as players who have been constantly at the level cap have done. Are there not still Shell stats and gear? Memento gear and stats? Public events? Have ABLs been removed from the game? Does KS no longer have trash drops? Do charge alts no longer produce t8 stones? Have people stopped running instances? If you excuse the plethora of rhetoric questions, it is undoubted that there are lots of ways to catch up, some of them very efficient.

Also, players being dragged (or introduced, however you like it) through higher instances is hardly the be all and end all that a small minority seem to think it is. A free ride is still a free ride - but it is a step in the right direction. Actually entering an instance before you can one shot all bosses is a good first step. It also allows players to meet other players that may be like minded, allows endgamers to meet and get to know new players that might become worthy members of their guild or playing circle in a way that checking toon names in AH history doesn't quite do.

But still, baby steps. For me anything that helps people stop treating the game as some grindfest where you farm one boss over and over again that takes no skill, no effort, and in no way expands your horizons is a good thing. Even if the effect might be negligible, it is still commendable.

There are those that say now the choice to sell or buy gear has been removed. This is hardly true either, it merely takes a bit more planning, and there is more of a thought process in is this item worth the ABL to me?

There are those that say the swings in the economy produced by ABL season, and diamond season, etc are a bad thing. I think these allow clever players and patient players to maximise their investments by knowing the game. I admit this gives a small trouble with how to get f2p players ABLs at reasonable prices when there is high demand for diamonds, but this is something that diamond sellers will have to work out as they want those players to have ABLs. Perhaps people will form ingame relationships to mutual benefit. But no, that would never work in a social game like an MMO.

Anyway all this stuff has been said and done over and over again. It obviously places a restriction on the economy - but is one that can be overcome I think. It can also help retain value of endgame items and lower tier items, so it is not a wholly bad thing for the economy. It can help players explore more of the content at the gear level intended, maybe it won't but it is a step in the right direction.

I'd like to make a few points in this duplicate of a duplicate of a duplicate thread regarding ABLs, and then I'm going to drop the subject like the disease that it is. Some of it is based on opinions which I believe to be true or accurate, some of it is history that those people who are thinking *only* of themselves are tending to forget or gloss over.

1. The US servers and the US forums do not necessarily drive this game. I'm sure that KatalanOrk and Inferiority can back me up on this. There are close to *three times* the number of EU servers and probably *10+ times* the number of EU players as there are US servers and players. *These* are the people who drive RoM, not the players here.

2. I've played the game here since April 2009, on various characters. And while I'm not one to reminisce about the "good old days of Chapter I or Chapter II", I do remember that ABLs were not a staple in the Item Shop during those chapters. Since they weren't there on a regular basis, just how does *anyone* think that "new" characters who finally achieved the gloried status of level 50 or 55 managed to acquire their shiny new instance gear at those levels? They were dragged--escorted by their more-accomplished and experienced guildies or friends--through Origin, HotO, HoS, ZS, and DL. They died repeatedly, were rezzed, died again, rezzed, and not just through a single run in any of those instances. And they did this until they finally managed to get their gear sets, and worked off their debt by doing daily quests, spending hours at the guild Library (remember when Level 7 or 8 guilds were the *maximum*?), or spending diamonds on God's Redemption Tickets. And then, they collected up the best stats they could find, while waiting for Attribute Purifying Stones to...wait for it...go on sale in the Item Shop.

3. Chapter III changed almost *all* of this. "Runes of Scouts" brought about more and more ABLs in daily, weekly, and weekend sales, and wrecked server economies by allowing players to flood the AH with DoD, WA, and RT gear (including Black Codex gear), *especially* RT gear, at then-outrageous prices. If you didn't have ABLs but had puries, you stoned the gear and sold the *stats* for similarly then-outrageous prices, so you could add the new and improved stats to your existing HOS/ZS/DL gear, if you couldn't manage to do RT. Once boss burns were possible, DoD farming for hours and hours was a popular pastime, and to some extent it still is, just to farm for mementos. Who, here in this particular discussion, hasn't done *that*? Deny it and I'll call you a liar to your electronic face.

4. Chapter IV made things worse with Grafu and Sardo Castle gear and stats. Note here that with some exceptions, some of the best gear in the game remained certain level 55 gear sets. But that changed with the Grafu and Sardo gear, especially the -H gear. And certain players and/or guilds, who were already rather OP, made it their business (and I don't use that word lightly) to quickly learn how to run the two new instances, while continuing to farm older ones such as RT--and on the highest difficulty levels--then turn around, using the ABLs which were now permanent additions to the IS, to generate huge quantities of gold. Add to this the huge increase of diamond-for-gold or diamond-for item trading.

Chapter V hasn't yet improved things. The same OP guilds and players are now moving on to new content, many have now worked out the strats for the new instances, and would simply love to continue as they had before. Except, ABLs are no longer a permanent feature in the IS, so they whine and complain about that little thing, ad infinitum and ad nauseum, as witnessed by the five or six threads on the subject.

Personally, and as someone who has sunk what I consider to be an unconscionable amount of real-life money into this game over the past 3+ years, I much prefer that ABLs be only available on a limited basis and not as everyday purchases. Frogster made a huge mistake making them constantly available, and making them available just every so often is a step in the right direction. There will still be players who are the "haves", who have $100-200 per month that they're willing to part with so they can get the convenience and power items from the Item Shop. We'll always have that, and they'll help keep the hamsters fed. But the large majority of the "investing" players will spend $20-40 a month, if that much.

I'm going to bring up the +7--+12 enhancement gems just this once. Like the ABLs, I expect them to show up in Happy Hour or weekend offers. The same thing goes for the Perfect versions. They do *not* need to be everyday conveniences, however much that people would like them to be. Just plan ahead, is all you need to do. If you've forgotten the fable of the Grasshopper and the Ant, go Google it.

I've said elsewhere that instead of this being a game of "every player for himself", RoM should return to being an MMO. As in, "Massively Multiplayer" game, where you make friends in-game, join guilds, and work out guild alliances. In this way, people can *work together* to run content and *grow* new players who join the game, teaching them how to play their characters, learn skill rotations, and eventually, run the content and instances as their characters level and mature.

And now, I'm out of here. Y'all go on ahead and argue yourselves in circles 'til you're blue-faced. I'm tired of it.

Quoted from "Malignatus;542305"

Chapter V hasn't yet improved things. The same OP guilds and players are now moving on to new content, many have now worked out the strats for the new instances, and would simply love to continue as they had before. Except, ABLs are no longer a permanent feature in the IS, so they whine and complain about that little thing, ad infinitum and ad nauseum, as witnessed by the five or six threads on the subject.

Meh. None of the new gear is worth unbinding as it is, all AC is is stats and the two staff aggs, so removing ABL's really doesn't affect endgame profits at all, at least for Aeternal Circle. And the ABL sale made it so most endgamers, at least in my guild, stocked up on enough ABL's that we're fine come 75. One guy I know bought 100 of them, I personally only bought around 20 cause I wanted cleaners and extractors, but the point remains.

Removing ABL's isn't going to fix people buying all their gear. It's just going to make them have to wait longer for it, or buy it for higher prices. Before they were removed permanently, I would sell things free their unbinder. Now, i'm either going to vendor that piece, or puri it. I'm not going to sell anything cheap now that I don't know if that unbinder is gonna be able to be replaced soon.

Ah prices for TOSH gear has gone up considerably on Reni. As Borrella said, there is no more Free your ABL, or 2-5mil your ABL. As noted previously, higher prices and availability of gear lowered and passing gear to mid gamers has been effectively killed.

Some of the problems that I have seen within my current guild is that endgamers are leaving.
We can't run the stuff they want to so they are seeking the higher level guilds. That's bad, we just lost 4 endgamers within a week. Right when we were talking about how we can as a guild make ourselves better, we lose people. Due to they want gear yet they see no progress.

Sure some of it's the guild but it's mostly Frogster implementing this, if someone wants gear, go buy it... oh wait we can't anymore. Now we must go do the instance, we can't. So basically guilds who don't have the endgame people are losing the people they need to get up, because they can't go anywhere without actually running these instances.

But what about PUG's, no one will pug TOSH or GCH now-a-days...