Runes of Magic US / AU

I think detection is fine how it is and I play scout in siege. The rogue usually loses but seems about fair how it is (lol).

I agree that the weapon damage base % should be increased and something with the GCD because the fact that if you use a quicker bow vs xbow the damage of the xbow will always have more DPS as potted and music'd they are both the same speed cap. So no advantage of the quicker bow speed.

Undo the changes to Archers Glory and give back the "serenity" or at least a skill in place of it

Or, you know, we could reduce the PAtt requirements in PvE for Scouts. This would have the added advantage of not having balance impact on PvP.

As I've stated several times on this forum, Scouts have to stack 10-15% more attack than any other class just to stay competitive in damage output. This basically eliminates Scouts from serious end-game contention. In my current gear, I'm still about 10k PAtt short of ToSH on my Scout. But if I switch to my Rogue, suddenly I'm ToSH ready. This is with the SAME GEAR.

As to the "ranged advantage", that's already covered in the lower damage output on our skills, and our lower mastery level. There's NO reason to keep our PAtt nerfed as well. We have paid for Ch3 more than amply in Ch4, and it's time for a change.

Lol Whisper you could have been in Siege tonight and watched a S/Wdn rape some face off your guildies. I agree pattk requirements are a little too high and that the nerf hammer was brought down way to hard. Small changes like that seem to be more needed than some other changes at least at first.

S/X 55 Elite : The Legend of the Scout. Instant. 5 Minute Cooldown. 5 Focus. For 60 Seconds you become as strong as you were in Ch.3. Problem solved.

Quoted from "LinkTheValiant;563510"

As I've stated several times on this forum, Scouts have to stack 10-15% more attack than any other class just to stay competitive in damage output. This basically eliminates Scouts from serious end-game contention. In my current gear, I'm still about 10k PAtt short of ToSH on my Scout. But if I switch to my Rogue, suddenly I'm ToSH ready. This is with the SAME GEAR.

Gear Ready =/= ToSH ready.

I was previously an S/R and I don't think I felt that immense a pressure to keep up with the DPS of other classes. In fact quite a few of my gear pieces still have a Dex/Stam stat. Yes as an S/R sometimes you'll need to beg/threaten/bribe other ?/S party members to cast Vampire Arrows but DBP rocks so no complaints there. Scouts aren't eliminated from 'serious' end-game content, it's simple enough get a DPS spot in tosh as a scout, you either play well as a scout or if you don't; in which case then go jump on the bandwagon and play the flavour of the month.

Since rerolling to S/Wd my P.Atk has dropped a few K but my dps is higher than before due to the different class elites. Having said that I don't recall being an S/R was ever that strenuous in 'keeping up'/outdpsing other classes.

Quoted

[COLOR=black !important]Gear Ready =/= ToSH ready.

I was previously an S/R and I don't think I felt that immense a pressure to keep up with the DPS of other classes. In fact quite a few of my gear pieces still have a Dex/Stam stat. Yes as an S/R sometimes you'll need to beg/threaten/bribe other ?/S party members to cast Vampire Arrows but DBP rocks so no complaints there. Scouts aren't eliminated from 'serious' end-game content, it's simple enough get a DPS spot in tosh as a scout, you either play well as a scout or if you don't; in which case then go jump on the bandwagon and play the flavour of the month.

Since rerolling to S/Wd my P.Atk has dropped a few K but my dps is higher than before due to the different class elites. Having said that I don't recall being an S/R was ever that strenuous in 'keeping up'/outdpsing other classes.[/COLOR]

Then the non-Scout DPS on your server suck, if you're able to outdamage them when you're both at instance caps, burn or no burn.

Aside from that, way to confuse the issue creatively. I did not say that Scouts are incapable of being competitive at end-game, although I do admit that it was phrased ambiguously. I said that the additional requirements imposed on Scouts bar their way to serious end-game contention.

If you actually play Scout, I'm sure you know perfectly well that you have to stack way more PAtt than an equivalently geared Rogue to reach instance caps. (It works for any DPS class, but the comparison between Scout and Rogue is easiest because both wear essentially identical gear aside from weapons.) This has nothing to do with the skill or ability of the DPS class in question. It's simple fact.

That is to say, a Scout has to put in more work for the same benefit. THAT is what this thread is addressing. Scouts have the LOWEST attack benefit from their primary attribute of any DPS class. Scouts have the HIGHEST PvE attack caps. Scouts have the LOWEST weapon mastery maximum. None of that adds up to fairness.

To be perfectly fair, I will admit that I love having three reconciliations. That is one nice OP aspect of S/R.

Quoted from "LinkTheValiant;563649"

Then the non-Scout DPS on your server suck, if you're able to outdamage them when you're both at instance caps, burn or no burn.

We're all on the same server Btw, there's no such thing as a Rogue P.Att cap and a Scout P.Att cap. P.Att cap means enough P.Att to break through a boss's P.Def. A boss's P.Def does not change accordingly to whoever is attacking it.

Quoted from "LinkTheValiant;563649"

Then the non-Scout DPS on your server suck, if you're able to outdamage them when you're both at instance caps, burn or no burn.

Aside from that, way to confuse the issue creatively. I did not say that Scouts are incapable of being competitive at end-game, although I do admit that it was phrased ambiguously. I said that the additional requirements imposed on Scouts bar their way to serious end-game contention.

If you actually play Scout, I'm sure you know perfectly well that you have to stack way more PAtt than an equivalently geared Rogue to reach instance caps. (It works for any DPS class, but the comparison between Scout and Rogue is easiest because both wear essentially identical gear aside from weapons.) This has nothing to do with the skill or ability of the DPS class in question. It's simple fact.

That is to say, a Scout has to put in more work for the same benefit. THAT is what this thread is addressing. Scouts have the LOWEST attack benefit from their primary attribute of any DPS class. Scouts have the HIGHEST PvE attack caps. Scouts have the LOWEST weapon mastery maximum. None of that adds up to fairness.

To be perfectly fair, I will admit that I love having three reconciliations. That is one nice OP aspect of S/R.

You just called the non-scout dps on Reni suck. Erm. Kay.

Also what Bangs said, there is no such thing as a "scout patt cap" and a "rogue patt cap". The patk cap on a boss is the same no matter what physical class is attacking it.

I don't understand why we're talking about rogues being able to hit Patk caps easier.. scouts have a 41% (I think that's what it's at atm) patk boost from Blood Arrow, rogue as a base class gets no Patk Boosts, they get crit boosts though, crit boosts don't help at all to hit PA instance caps.

R/W and R/Wd both have Patk boosting skills from their secondary but neither makes up for the massive boost from Blood Arrow, and if you're not using that then what are you complaining about, your healer?

Back to my post that I made in the beginning!

Quoted from "Kefkai;563662"

I don't understand why we're talking about rogues being able to hit Patk caps easier.. scouts have a 41% (I think that's what it's at atm) patk boost from Blood Arrow, rogue as a base class gets no Patk Boosts, they get crit boosts though, crit boosts don't help at all to hit PA instance caps.

R/W and R/Wd both have Patk boosting skills from their secondary but neither makes up for the massive boost from Blood Arrow, and if you're not using that then what are you complaining about, your healer?

Back to my post that I made in the beginning!

About 38% at lvl 72. And it increases P.Dmg not P.Att. But very helpful of course.

Quoted from "mikkehboii;563664"

About 38% at lvl 72. And it increases P.Dmg not P.Att. But very helpful of course.

Weird, why does the skill read that it gives Pattack then localization errors ftl

Quoted from "Kefkai;563667"

Weird, why does the skill read that it gives Pattack then localization errors ftl

Ya, but it is RoM so we're used to these bugs lol

Quoted from "Kefkai;563667"

Weird, why does the skill read that it gives Pattack then localization errors ftl

Yeah it's always read patk for some reason, even though it's damage. But still.. 38% more damage is kind of awesome.

The difference between 1.3 and 1.0 PAtk per point of Dex is only 7500 unbuffed even with 25k Dex, and Scouts should probably be stacking far more PAtk/less Dex than that anyway, so the difference should be much less than that. That's certainly a difference, but it's not enough to be the primary cause of the ~20-40% DPS difference that most people are seeing.

Also, as was already said, there is no such thing as different caps. Ranged PAtk and melee PAtk have both rolled against the same PDef in the same equation since Chapter 4 when dex was taken out of the equation.

Also, Scout passives have the highest effect in the game, not the lowest. SSM+BM together have an overall effect of ~+95% to bow DPS.

For passives, I think that a better idea would be to increase BM by some amount, remove SSM completely, then decrease the base attack speed of ALL bows and xbows by ~0.4 or 0.5.

That would have a few effects. 1. It would bring bow/xbow DPS more in line with other weapon DPS in the game which would make it easier to balance things. The math would be a bit simpler. 2. It would bring bow/xbow weapon mastery more in line with other weapon masteries. Again, easier to balance around and simpler. The downside of this effect is that base skill damage of ranged skills might have to be slightly adjusted for balanced since ranged base skill damage works differently than melee base skill damage. 3. It would bring bow and xbow DPS more in line with each other so that bows would become more useful. That is because a fixed attack speed change would benefit fast weapons a bit more than slow weapons.

Quoted from "sshades;563671"

The difference between 1.3 and 1.0 PAtk per point of Dex is only 7500 unbuffed even with 25k Dex, and Scouts should probably be stacking far more PAtk/less Dex than that anyway, so the difference should be much less than that. That's certainly a difference, but it's not enough to be the primary cause of the ~20-40% DPS difference that most people are seeing.

Also, as was already said, there is no such thing as different caps. Ranged PAtk and melee PAtk have both rolled against the same PDef in the same equation since Chapter 4 when dex was taken out of the equation.

Also, Scout passives have the highest effect in the game, not the lowest. SSM+BM together have an overall effect of ~+95% to bow DPS.

For passives, I think that a better idea would be to increase BM by some amount, remove SSM completely, then decrease the base attack speed of ALL bows and xbows by ~0.4 or 0.5.

That would have a few effects. 1. It would bring bow/xbow DPS more in line with other weapon DPS in the game which would make it easier to balance things. The math would be a bit simpler. 2. It would bring bow/xbow weapon mastery more in line with other weapon masteries. Again, easier to balance around and simpler. The downside of this effect is that base skill damage of ranged skills might have to be slightly adjusted for balanced since ranged base skill damage works differently than melee base skill damage. 3. It would bring bow and xbow DPS more in line with each other so that bows would become more useful. That is because a fixed attack speed change would benefit fast weapons a bit more than slow weapons.

Exactly. Scout's think Rogue's have so much more advantage than them because of the 1.3 P.Att per Dex and 1.2 P.Att per Str that Rogues have compared to Scout's 1 to 1. It's not. In fact, Scout's get more P.Att per Dex than any rogue combination other than R/S. Only R/S gets more P.Att per Dex than S/x, because of the shared Swiftness passive skill on Scout general tab. And a R/S only gets 177.7 more P.Att per piece of gear when statting P.Att/Hp, Dex/P.Att x 2, Stam/P.Att x 2, Str/P.Att of Bygone/Eternity. Counting stat's only not ghost stats because that would be too much work. That btw is the most balanced and optimal way to stack P.Att for both Rogues and Scouts. Dropping 1 tier to get another Dex/P.Att will end up giving you less P.Att than a higher tier Str/P.Att. If you want to look good on Dex rankings then go ahead drop a tier and go Dex. Either way, it doesn't matter. 177.7 x 16 + Dex ghost stats and runes is only about 3.5k P.Att difference. Sure 3.5k more P.Att is nice, but it's not what makes Scout's DPS lower than Rogues. What I would like to see is about 100% DPS more on all Scout skills. That should boost up their DPS a bit. And not much changes needed other than that.

in my exp blood arrow is a double edge sword... almost anytime you use it you die during a tosh boss fight unless a healer specifically focus heals you. Only time its safe to use is the last 2 tosh bosses.

but yea scout dps is low because its skills are 200-300% dps lower then other classes attacks and Weapon mastery is way to low.

honestly even if you increased the weapon mastery to 70% that would probably be enough to put scouts in line with other dps classes

Does anything change in the dmg formula or why are you talking about patt cap so often here in US? Bosses in ToSH have more than 200k pdef (check rom-welten for values). And you do not do 100% of your max dmg when you reach that pdef with your patt (it is more likely 50%). So you buff up to 400k patt in ToSH? Or what? I do not understand that "patt cap" talks here

Btw how to fix lower dps classes - delete scrutinizer, it is destroying this game way too much

Quoted from "Zippich;563711"

Does anything change in the dmg formula or why are you talking about patt cap so often here in US? Bosses in ToSH have more than 200k pdef (check rom-welten for values). And you do not do 100% of your max dmg when you reach that pdef with your patt (it is more likely 50%). So you buff up to 400k patt in ToSH? Or what? I do not understand that "patt cap" talks here

Btw how to fix lower dps classes - delete scrutinizer, it is destroying this game way too much

I dont really want to be a chapter 2/3 scout buff where scouts are the only class but i want my consistent DPS to be alot higher then it is. (i am trying to explain the damage formula to guildie so funny that you posted that lol)

I use scrut as a tool on how i can improve my DPS move skills around in a rotation and to troll friends.

Quoted from "sshades;563671"

Also, Scout passives have the highest effect in the game, not the lowest. SSM+BM together have an overall effect of ~+95% to bow DPS.

i think you missed the different ranged damage and melee damage calculation. for ranged damage you have only half the amount calculated with your dps.

an example:

ranged weapon damage: 11.000 (xbow t11 +16)
weapon speed: 4
skill %: 200 (e.g. shot)

max damage without passives:
2,75*11.000 + 2*11.000*2/4 = 30.250+11.000 = 41.250

max damage with passives (BM: 20% damage; SSM: 38,5% speed)
2,75*1,2*11.000 + 2*1,2*11.000*2/(4*(1-0,385)) = 36.300 + 21.463 = 57.763

so at all you gain about 29% additional damage from the scouts passives.


lets have a look at some melee damage:

melee weapon damage: 14.000 (two handed axe t11 +16)
weapon speed: 3.8
skill %: 400 (e.g. slash)

max damage without passives:
2,75*14.000/3,8 + 2*14.000*4/3,8 = 10.132 + 29.474 = 39606

max damage with passives (70% damage):
2,75*1,7*14.000/3,8 + 2*1,7*14.000*4/3,8 = 17.224 + 50.105 = 67.329

so for the melee classes (since rogue and warrior both get about 70% extra damge) the damage gain through passives sums up at about 41%. moreover melees have the ability to use "raid" runes, which makes the difference even bigger.

sorry sir, but what you ve said above is just plain wrong.



the way speed shooting mastery was meant to work is outdated since shot got an global cooldown. before that you could benefit from the faster usage of shot. because you could go like shot-->skill, shot-->skill without loosing a CD. but now you have always the global cooldown after shot. you want to use shot as less as possible cause its one of the worse skills dps-wise. the only scout combo which still really profits from the faster shot is scout/warden cause here we have shoot as one of the best dps skills.

in general i dont want to complain about scout at all. the class is pretty fine. there are a couple of flaws with skills but thats not such a big deal. i would guess buffing up bow mastery for about 20% while nerfing the blood arrow skill for some percentage points would be a good thing. and maybe scouts should get a substitute for serenity.

Quoted from "mikkehboii;563677"

Exactly. Scout's think Rogue's have so much more advantage than them because of the 1.3 P.Att per Dex and 1.2 P.Att per Str that Rogues have compared to Scout's 1 to 1. It's not. In fact, Scout's get more P.Att per Dex than any rogue combination other than R/S. Only R/S gets more P.Att per Dex than S/x, because of the shared Swiftness passive skill on Scout general tab. And a R/S only gets 177.7 more P.Att per piece of gear when statting P.Att/Hp, Dex/P.Att x 2, Stam/P.Att x 2, Str/P.Att of Bygone/Eternity. Counting stat's only not ghost stats because that would be too much work. That btw is the most balanced and optimal way to stack P.Att for both Rogues and Scouts. Dropping 1 tier to get another Dex/P.Att will end up giving you less P.Att than a higher tier Str/P.Att. If you want to look good on Dex rankings then go ahead drop a tier and go Dex. Either way, it doesn't matter. 177.7 x 16 + Dex ghost stats and runes is only about 3.5k P.Att difference. Sure 3.5k more P.Att is nice, but it's not what makes Scout's DPS lower than Rogues. What I would like to see is about 100% DPS more on all Scout skills. That should boost up their DPS a bit. And not much changes needed other than that.

yeah, use BA in endgame and instances and due.We thinkthat rogues have so much more of an advantage because of weapon mastery because its double scouts