Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Keyshana;567853"

Siege has become a massive cheat-fest. There is no honor, no fun, no fairness for the majority of matches.

If there was no fun, people wouldn't be playing. A large amount of sieges end with both sides telling each other great siege, despite the few where people are unhappy at each other.

Quoted from "Keyshana;567853"

Point-dropping runs rampant

The problem with saying that people have to be point dropping is that its not always intentional. For example, TSF got roflstomped by several 6k point guilds, so their points dropped well below their usual level. Than they in turn rofl stomped us twice and several other guilds before they get back up, dropping our points below our normal level. Than we in turn will will face against weaker guilds, and rofl stomp them.

While there are guilds that do drop their points on purpose, like hax crying, a large majority of them are not actually real point droppiing. Its just the butterfly effect.

Quoted from "Keyshana;567853"

The big guilds are so used to ROFLstomping the lower ones, they forget what it is like from the other side.

We had fun sieges with big guilds that came to rofl stomp us. And when faced with a weaker guild, you can't just tell your own guildies "Hey, these guys are weaker, so you guys standing here are not allowed to siege tonight".

Just because a guild has had a few bad matches & lost points is no reason to call them point droppers but most of us would be aware of the guilds on our own servers that shamelessly swap in & out of shadow guilds for the sole purpose of point dropping so they can easily farm the weaker guilds for badges.

I know on my own server, Osha, a quick look at rankings will tell me on any given day just which shadow guild is hosting our favorite point droppers & then a look at siege matchup will tell me who is about to have their siege fun ruined.

I once had some respect for the Osha guild that I see point dropping but not any longer. E-peen losers! Shameful!!

They don't even punish the people who actually hack...and you want them to punish cheaters?

Good luck with that.

Quoted from "Keyshana;567853"

Hacking is against ToS, cheating is, sadly, not.

If cheating is not against TOS, then it's not cheating?

Quoted from "Keyshana;567858"

I guess it's just because we are in that point bracket (1300-1600) where every siege seems to either be a no-show on the part of the other guild, or a ROFLstomp by them a few days later. And when you are facing some of the biggest guilds on the various servers, in that bracket, it is difficult, at best, to not say they are dropping. Or when most of their high players have over 150k health each. It's just kinda hard to not call points dropper when our war record shows they had no one in 3 days before. Or when 5 of their players can farm 22 of ours, repeatedly, for the entire siege while we can do nothing to them. Yes, I know this sounds like a whine, and it may be, a bit. But my point IS valid. Tstorm should not be able to go in and take out a throne from outside the castle walls. Nor should it be able to wipe a proc the same way.

When 5 OP players farm 22 lowbies, a few things may have happened to cause it.

1) Their guild is dying, and they're the only ones left who even bother to siege.
2) The rest of their guild do not care for siege, so they don't show up. Hence why you see 5 OP players in a lower bracket - they couldn't win, because they don't have the numbers/support.
3) The rest of their guild is off playing the new game. Again, no numbers for siege, so their points drop.

Them showing up 1 day and not the other is no clear-cut indication that they are intentionally point-dropping. One siege they could be in ToSH, which takes anywhere from just under an hour to 3 hours depending on the guild. The other, they could be bored, and actually have members participate.

Sure, its frustrating, you're losing to 5 of some of the best players on some servers - but you have to look at it in another perspective. Not everyone is thinking "lets drop points and roflstomp noobs!" No. Fact of the matter is - Most of the OP players, especially those who have been around awhile, have already gotten the titles/rewards they needed/wanted/are worth going for. They're there participating in siege, just like you are.

Yes, there are probably some legit point droppers out there who get a thrill from a 7 minute siege...but really, how many? I talk with people from many guilds on Reni - I know of 0 point dropping guilds. The OP players (for the most part) want to be in OP guilds.

Clockwork, when we reformed from Xareinguardians, was called point droppers, a shadow guild, scared of fighting PPK, etc etc. Truth is, we had a clash in the upper ranks with the guild lead and some officers, and 95%ish of the guild left to get away from what we felt was a bad decision. Look at our points now - If we were really point dropper/shadow guilders, scared to fight tough guilds...why would we let our points get this high?

tl;dr - There could be many reasons why 20+ of you lose to ~5 OP players. Think outside your frustration for once. Its 1 hour of 1 night. You can't really accuse unless you know the whole situation, and there are many.

Quoted from "Ravesden;567874"

Yes, there are probably some legit point droppers out there who get a thrill from a 7 minute siege...but really, how many? I talk with people from many guilds on Reni - I know of 0 point dropping guilds. The OP players (for the most part) want to be in OP guilds.

Cases like yours are legit. Guilds that are known for hopping to one of their 2-3 alt guilds, and letting their main guild drop down in points when they don't show up, are point-droppers, any way you put it. This is not the majority of guilds, of course, but there are a few that are known on their server for doing this.

There's hacking/exploiting. And then there are tactics you personally don't like.

I don't like it =/= cheating.

For example, placing flame towers on the castle roof. I don't like this tactic. I think it's kinda dirty, since there's no legitimate way to get up on the castle roof to clear them. Only a couple of class combos have skills that can eliminate flames placed on a castle roof, and there's no telling if any given opponent will have any of those combos in.

So, we don't do it.

Does that mean I think putting flames on a castle roof is cheating?

Nope.

I just don't like it.

Here's another example: Intentional point dropping. I don't like it. I think it's the tactic of losers. People who aren't willing to risk losing. I know exactly who you mean, GarryL and it makes me sad, too. But here's the thing. Gameforge said it's ok. They gave it the green light. So while Noto never has and never will intentionally point drop, I'm not going to call out people who do it. Gameforge gave them the OK. It isn't cheating. I just don't like it.

Here's my personal moral guide to what is and isn't an exploit: Is it allowed by the game mechanics? If so, it isn't an exploit (like people being able to thunderstorm through the holes in gates, people using skills that aren't affected by LoS, flames placed on a roof, etc). It might be exploitative, but it isn't an exploit. If it isn't allowed by the game mechanics (walking through walls that haven't loaded, glitching gate hammers intentionally, etc) then it's an exploit.

Some stuff isn't an exploit and still shouldn't be allowed- things like the old warden crash, hopping over someone's wall- stuff like that is clearly not OK- and was judged not OK by the GM's here in this forum.

But making that judgement isn't up to us, it's up to the GM's. We don't have the authority to decide what is and isn't OK. Just because we don't like a tactic doesn't make it a cheat.

Each and every one of us, when we hit that Enter Battle button, makes choices about how we behave. We have to use our own moral compass. And we can't expect everyone to play by our own self-imposed rules. I use my personal code of honor in siege (we don't attack buildings from outside, we don't put flames on the roof, we don't drop points) but I don't expect the people we fight to follow my code, and I don't call them cheaters when they don't.

Just cause I don't like it doesn't make it a cheat.

Quoted from "GarryL;567860"

Just because a guild has had a few bad matches & lost points is no reason to call them point droppers but most of us would be aware of the guilds on our own servers that shamelessly swap in & out of shadow guilds for the sole purpose of point dropping so they can easily farm the weaker guilds for badges.

I know on my own server, Osha, a quick look at rankings will tell me on any given day just which shadow guild is hosting our favorite point droppers & then a look at siege matchup will tell me who is about to have their siege fun ruined.

I once had some respect for the Osha guild that I see point dropping but not any longer. E-peen losers! Shameful!!

They are pretty rotten to the...well you can finish that sentence.

Quoted from "cmerc;567910"

They are pretty rotten to the...well you can finish that sentence.

It is what it is.

The GM's said it's OK, so move along, those aren't the droids you're looking for. We don't have to like it or agree with it, but we all have to live with it. And I'm a member of the guild in question, if they haven't kicked me for inactivity... too much to do on my own trailer-park server at the moment to take any time off for fun on Osha.

Maybe they're actually smarter than the rest of us. They don't have to deal with Clockwork three days in a row.

/wrists

WTT Clockwork for PPK, pst. Serious offers only pls.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;567951"

It is what it is.

The GM's said it's OK, so move along, those aren't the droids you're looking for. We don't have to like it or agree with it, but we all have to live with it. And I'm a member of the guild in question, if they haven't kicked me for inactivity... too much to do on my own trailer-park server at the moment to take any time off for fun on Osha.

Maybe they're actually smarter than the rest of us. They don't have to deal with Clockwork three days in a row.

/wrists

WTT Clockwork for PPK, pst. Serious offers only pls.

Yay! <3

Really? PPK? At least we're a good fight..

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;567951"

It is what it is.

The GM's said it's OK, so move along, those aren't the droids you're looking for. We don't have to like it or agree with it, but we all have to live with it. And I'm a member of the guild in question, if they haven't kicked me for inactivity... too much to do on my own trailer-park server at the moment to take any time off for fun on Osha.

Maybe they're actually smarter than the rest of us. They don't have to deal with Clockwork three days in a row.

/wrists

WTT Clockwork for PPK, pst. Serious offers only pls.

OH and by the way Fan.. we just got another Jenny's robe just now, and we got one lastnight. WTT loot tables?

I only come in for siege but am finding my last fun in RoM being ruined by the shadow guilds and points droppers. What annoys me the most is when they keep the siege going the whole hour, just farming us, instead of putting us out of our misery.

Every now and then it is a real fight but that is getting infrequent.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;567951"

WTT Clockwork for PPK, pst. Serious offers only pls.

Stop low-balling.