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Mages: The Chapter 5 Situation Looks Bleak

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mnkmurphy885

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Monday, October 15th 2012, 10:54pm

Mages: The Chapter 5 Situation Looks Bleak

Ok, it's still a little too early to call mage a dead class, but I'm starting to get PTSD flashbacks from Chapter Three now.

Let's talk briefly about why.

A) The 75 hard mode instance staff is worse than the level 70 hard mode instance staff.

B) The drop rate on mage pieces in the new instance is extraordinarily low.

C) The trash mobs in the new instance are almost all resistant to mage crowd control skills. Pretty much only the little brown baby ants can be CC'd. Everything else ignores all stuns, silences and roots.

D) Impossibly high amounts of magic crit resistance and magical defense on the bosses make our dps suffer a lot.

E) Un-burnable bosses don't favor burn-only mages, so we consistently end up last on the scrut.

Now, any one of those things wouldn't be too bad, but the combination is killer.

There's really no reason at all to take a mage in Kulech Bone Nest. Our tank does more dps on the hardmode first boss than I do. And I can't do a darned thing to the trash either. You can't CC the adds, you can't CC the trash- and to add insult to injury, the first boss hits you with a cast-speed decrease, cutting your already craptastic sustained dps in half.

Walking into KBN as a mage is almost enough to make you want to quit the class/game. Nothing drops for us- I mean, wis/hp on mage shoulders, really??? Like healers don't already get two stats out of every four that drop- warriors/champions get the other two.

But the thing that really makes me want to scream is that we can't even CC. I mean, ok, sure, make our burn completely useless, but at least make me useful on the trash, yah know? But, noooo... we don't even get that.

And this is for Wiffo, who postulated that the caster weapons were crappy because they would drop off an early "easy" boss....

WHO'S IDEA WAS IT TO HAVE THE DAGGER DROP OFF THE FIRST, EASIEST BOSS ANYWAY???

It's like being slapped repeatedly in the face with a not-so-fresh mullet.

I know not that many mages have had the joyous experience of trying to plow through the horror that is KDM hm, and I'll admit I haven't spent as much time in there as others, but my limited experience is making me feel pretty much like I did back in the scout-rape days. But then, at least, we had a great staff to look forward to, stats that dropped, and trash we could CC as long as the Bolgus weren't involved.

This is, for lack of a better term, bullcrap.
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Borella

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Monday, October 15th 2012, 11:00pm

Mages are extraordinarily helpful on first boss... with the amount of adds there the discharge and aoe of a mage is great there.

Totally agreed on weapons though. That is complete and utter bullcrap that magic weapons are worse than tosh. I mean, seriously?
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Monday, October 15th 2012, 11:07pm

Mages aren't as bad as you really make them out to be in there. Sure loot sucks. It does (weapon-wise) for all magical classes.

As for stats, I don't think Noto has downed 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, so can't really judge until you've gotten a good sample. Idk, you could be right, loot sucks for mages. But I think its too early to judge.

But, ask or melee how much they'd prefer to be ranged with some of the mobs in there. Our mages were (jokingly, but kinda true) our ToSH sacrifices. Wasn't a real tosh run unless our mages died...repeatedly. Nowadays, we got our mages saying "Its nice now that other classes have to die, and I finally get to live."

I've been in there as both melee dps and ranged caster (mah druid). I much prefer ranged in that instance. The mobs are deadly to anyone within range. Wind Elemental? Ur faaaaked as melee. Ranged? Psh, ez, just burn dabish.

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Borella

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Monday, October 15th 2012, 11:32pm

Quoted from "Ravesden;574062"

Mages aren't as bad as you really make them out to be in there. Sure loot sucks. It does (weapon-wise) for all magical classes.

As for stats, I don't think Noto has downed 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, so can't really judge until you've gotten a good sample. Idk, you could be right, loot sucks for mages. But I think its too early to judge.

But, ask or melee how much they'd prefer to be ranged with some of the mobs in there. Our mages were (jokingly, but kinda true) our ToSH sacrifices. Wasn't a real tosh run unless our mages died...repeatedly. Nowadays, we got our mages saying "Its nice now that other classes have to die, and I finally get to live."

I've been in there as both melee dps and ranged caster (mah druid). I much prefer ranged in that instance. The mobs are deadly to anyone within range. Wind Elemental? Ur faaaaked as melee. Ranged? Psh, ez, just burn dabish.


And yaknow.. Fanny is never on. So what have you done like, five first boss runs Fanny? :P You don't get to judge yet!!! <33
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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 12:38am

Fun thing is that while mages suffer from being only a burst class, those long fights and high mdef on bosses just favor w/m even more and big time. With it's stable dps over time and super high basically permanent self matk buff combined with that new super OP elite skill (which can easily kill mob twice with a single hit in AC), there is no really point in playing as a poor mage primary if you want to do some real magical dps at the moment.

Currenlty w/m over damages any mage with same gear so badly, that it will make any mage without warrior secondary cry their eyes out. If I give numbers like from minimum 2-3 times to 4-7 times more DPS both during the burst and outside burst as small hint...

It's fun to be on the top of scrutinizer in KBN HM first boss farm runs even with some staff from last chapter while being AFK whole boss fight, doing white-auto-attacks only and letting other people kill those movers. Aggro is bit troublesome atm with that combo... :rolleyes:

Haven't seen that much problems seeing some mage pieces or stats from KBN HM, but even my mouse has more buttons than I ever got any eternity mage stats from many AC runs... at least mementos used to have 2/4 chance to drop decent ones during that time.

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 1:07am

Yep, and really, w/m statted exactly like an end game mage wasn't OP just because of the 60 elite. Few months back when I was still in Heretic we had our m/w/wd go w/m for fun and still top the scrut. The new 60 elite just cemented it. I remember pugging with edh back then and having Tridark laugh at Risen for going into boss 1 as w/m...then Risen doubled Tri's dps with 1 skill...

Only real trouble he had was missing on the boss, nothing a few overnight afk's doesn't solve.

Also, as Mr. Deraan here on the forum reminded me a couple nights ago...w/m hurts in pvp, even as a healer. Dude charged at me, then crit like 200k hit with his lightning attack melee thingy.

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YomanROM

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 2:08am

the mdef is not really high on the bosses. imo every boss in KBN is just a hitpoint-bubble. But i cant speak for any selfbuffs or slows the bosses might lash out on themselves or the players - but just from raw data - every lvl75 worldboss has almost twice as much pdef or mdef as the KBN bosses. Those are Level75, though, with the players being level75 while KBN bosses are level78+.

as for the memento problem i recommend writing bug reports - seriously. Anything that is not listed in the official patchnotes has not been checked as a change by Frogster QA. They just work down the list of changes given by Runewakers patchnotes. (Ah, did i mention "Trust me, i'm an engineer" ? :D)

ruisen2000

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 2:31am

I just love reading Fan's Doomsday threads :D

And I dunno, I saw screenshots of KBN-H, and mage DPS on the scrut was not really the end of the world. But bosses should really resist less, and Mage weapons buffed. Nerf upgrade is the most fail thing that RW has ever done.

But I do find it amusing that the players are all panicking, while Frogster is just like... "its all cool", even though Frogster is losing out on much more than the players are. This game really breaks down to that - a game for players. If we lose DPS, its not going to impact our lives in any way, except that we'll each be $50-$500 richer.

But its a business for Forgster, and they're losing out on a LOT of profit. They should be the one panicking, and yet, they seem to be completely indifferent. Not a single CM reply on this issue at all, as far as i know.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmmmm... since the staff/wand drops for casters are worse in KBN-H:

Assuming that the amount of people that read the SW threads on Eu and Us each represent
2/3 the game population, thats about:

400 000 EU players
+94 000 US players.

Assuming that the game's population is equally distributed between the 8 old classes, 3 of which no longer need an upgrade (Mage, Druids, Priests), and assuming:
10% of the population would have spent an average of $300 to T11 and T12 +16
90% would have spent (in the future) an average of $90 for either T9 or T10 +16...

= 494 000 * 3/8 (or 182 520) players * (0.1)($300) + (0.9)($90)
= $20 200 000 profit loss for Forgster, all of US and EU combined.

Population might be on the rather high side, hence the "assumption", though it may be offset by future population, which is not accounted for here. But either way, I'd hate to be Frogster's CEO when they do the calculation with real data, and found out what accidently slipped through their noses :p
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timthum

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 3:41am

correct me if im wrong but doesnt the chaos vortex staff have more m dam than shackles at tier 10?
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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 3:53am

Quoted from "timthum;574082"

correct me if im wrong but doesnt the chaos vortex staff have more m dam than shackles at tier 10?


Barely... and that staff can only be used in CHaos Vortex. So not really part of the discussion.
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timthum

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 4:01am

Quoted from "Borella;574083"

Barely... and that staff can only be used in CHaos Vortex. So not really part of the discussion.


but it can be used outside if you can get the mats........
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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 4:03am

unless you clear CV and build it ... and pay 200M gold entrance fee randomly for the event to actually OPEN the instance to start. and farm a crapload of crappy crystals. for the instance to either close randomly again, or after every clear, or with every maintenance ... in short: it sucks. and you probably do not want to attempt deeper into the instance CV unless KBN-H is done.

btw, downside on all l75 weapons: lower upgrade values from plussing... thats even ontop of some weapons being worse than their level70 counterparts.

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 5:15am

i must say this is depressing for my mage side. and for my m/w
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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 8:17am

Quoted from "YomanROM;574085"



btw, downside on all l75 weapons: lower upgrade values from plussing... thats even ontop of some weapons being worse than their level70 counterparts.


LOL. Seriously, what was RW thinking when they came up with all of this? "Hey, mages have gotten to be too comfortable in instances since chapter 3, so let's nerf them again!" ?

It's absolutely ridiculous. In all the moronic things RW has ever done, making the next big instance weapons downgrades for half of the classes in the game is definitely the worst, both logically and profit-wise.

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CharlieBananas

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 8:25am

But they over doubled our physical dps!

mnkmurphy885

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 11:38am

Lol @ "doomsday thread." It's true.

I should just reroll rogue and get it over with. Runewaker literally has no freaking clue what the mage class is or does. They just like to play dress up and apparently the one dev that deals with balance only plays melee.

I might actually go level a w/m, cause I'm sick to death of this crap. And I HATE playing the warrior class.

And @ Raves and Bor, I did specify that I haven't seen much of the new instance, but what I have seen makes me sick. I just go on daytime first boss farms, and he's a real (expletive removed ahead of Kalvan). The tank does 30mil, I might do 10 or a little more, depending on adds.

We can't sustain worth a crap. A baby wl/r does 17 mil on him.

And as far as ranged helping- I don't see that Borraves. I see myself dying over and over to ants that drop aggro on the tank and cross half the instance to one-hit me even if I'm last on the aggro table. Mage shield helps that, but I can't ask people to wait 2 minutes between pulls, so unless I stand at the door- I'm gonna randomly get one-hit.

And maybe we just have the worst luck in RoM history, but the mage drop-rate issue isn't new. We can't get mage crap to drop to save our lives. Kanu was making fun of my Chapeaunoir set the other day, and it's like- dude, Jenny just didn't drop. Grrrrrarrrr. It's idiotic.

I dunno, maybe I am freaking ahead of schedule.

But it's depressing. That's the only word for it.
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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 12:46pm

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;574127"

Lol @ "doomsday thread." It's true.

I should just reroll rogue and get it over with. Runewaker literally has no freaking clue what the mage class is or does. They just like to play dress up and apparently the one dev that deals with balance only plays melee.

I might actually go level a w/m, cause I'm sick to death of this crap. And I HATE playing the warrior class.

And @ Raves and Bor, I did specify that I haven't seen much of the new instance, but what I have seen makes me sick. I just go on daytime first boss farms, and he's a real (expletive removed ahead of Kalvan). The tank does 30mil, I might do 10 or a little more, depending on adds.

We can't sustain worth a crap. A baby wl/r does 17 mil on him.

And as far as ranged helping- I don't see that Borraves. I see myself dying over and over to ants that drop aggro on the tank and cross half the instance to one-hit me even if I'm last on the aggro table. Mage shield helps that, but I can't ask people to wait 2 minutes between pulls, so unless I stand at the door- I'm gonna randomly get one-hit.

And maybe we just have the worst luck in RoM history, but the mage drop-rate issue isn't new. We can't get mage crap to drop to save our lives. Kanu was making fun of my Chapeaunoir set the other day, and it's like- dude, Jenny just didn't drop. Grrrrrarrrr. It's idiotic.

I dunno, maybe I am freaking ahead of schedule.

But it's depressing. That's the only word for it.


I liek that they "kinda" took away the mage burn. and with all the ants/bugs/keluchs/things that spawn on first boss u'd think theyd be mor ehelpful than you thinkk.

Oh hey you're going to go m/w? that's cute I remember when a ton of our mages on palenque went m/w and you said you would nevar evar evar! Maybe you guys should go back into tosh hard for the mages and get them Jenny ^^
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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 12:52pm

Fan. Don't mix in my name with Borella's like that. Its borderline insulting to my manhoodnessauce.

Btw, while range is indeed awesome cuz of the elementals in there - the Black Ants pull a cyclops mob (I guess RT did it too) and charge the person farthest away :)

About the Jennys set - that's gotta be a Palenque thing. Half of Reni mages it seems have the full Jenny set. Even the nub ones (the 99%, as I like to call them).

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 12:59pm

Quoted from "Ravesden;574131"

Fan. Don't mix in my name with Borella's like that. Its borderline insulting to my manhoodnessauce.

Btw, while range is indeed awesome cuz of the elementals in there - the Black Ants pull a cyclops mob (I guess RT did it too) and charge the person farthest away :)

About the Jennys set - that's gotta be a Palenque thing. Half of Reni mages it seems have the full Jenny set. Even the nub ones (the 99%, as I like to call them).


I know this is // off topic, but when are servers coming back up so i can get these bugged quests done before they bug again.
For you to live or die is in my hands, In Gigi we trust.

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Tuesday, October 16th 2012, 1:07pm

Iunno. I didn't even log in yesterday. Think its time for a break. maybe. Im getting that ol' long time player boredness/crankiness. Or maybe things not goin how i want them to. idk.

Servers prolly be up in the next hour.

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