Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Borella;595574"

Lol. Yeah cause every mage goes around using just flame in pve. No aoe, no instants.

More in line with p/k? You've got to be joking. When it comes to healing in pvp (and that's all p/s is good for now), a p/s is 10x worse than a p/k. Nobody in their right mind would choose to heal in pvp on a p/s if they have the option of p/k.

half pvp damage would make it less useless, though it wasn't op in the first place.

we werent talking about healing... We were talking about effectiveness of dmg in PVE. I dont know why you brought that up. Unless that is the only point you could muster. You didnt say anything for p/r p/w either.

mages do use flame in questing like Ruisen said, esp with the new zones. My main is a mage and YES i just flame a lot. I use other things as well though, so lets tackle that.

Rising tide, chain of light, bone chill.... For pvp mostly worthless, but we are talking PVE here, so please dont make a comment about them being useless PVP. Bone chill isnt great for PvE, but rising tide and chain of light do work well, and EVERY priest has them. P/R gets a speed up on casting. In fact my mage with his curse X, and his pet my flame, normally, is already pretty fast not to mention the m/w elite that temp speeds it up. I leveled my p/k against mobs using only rising tide and bone chill, when statted it is more then effective in PVE, and chain of light as well.

I give you that PVP is another story though, but yes it did need a nerf. It was the best range, fastest spam, great dmg, not much mana consumption... How would you feel if fireball for mages had no cool down... or lets say just rising tide for m/p? Spammable rising tide? I know as a mage i think OMG OP. Then how is it different then iceblade.

There is a good suggestion, if you put Iceblade back, make m/p rising tide no cool down. Fair is Fair right? We will see if people dont start complaining that it is OP.

I have said it needed a nerf.. i am not sure 3 seconds was the best choice. However a nerf was needed.

The core of ur argument has always been, priests shouldnt kill well in pvp. It's why no p/s takes ur arguments seriously since they're all based on that one fact. As for m/p, i've covered it before. It's actually a very good pvp combo, better than p/s for a lot of things in sw. Take away his ability to silence and freeze, take away most of his instant casts and his aoes, dilute flame and take away ec, and leave him fireball as 1 sec gcd and voila, u have another p/s combo. And no, that wouldnt bother me. But i suspect mages will miss aoes, ec, a strong flame, and lightning. M/p is a good pvp combo already. And u freely admitted that u dont even gear for sw. Im sorry, but not gearing for sw and having what i consider a very narrowminded view of priests shouldnt kill in sw, kind of make ur arguments ethereal and lacking any sort of substance at all. And doesnt answer the 1 question, were p/s better than all other class combos in sw. There was a rant over on eu forums about how the nerf was needed and how op p/s were. In this rant, the person claimed that even in pve, p/s could be at the top of the dps chain. Im not going to bother with how ridiculous that was, but during this rant, even with his overinflated opinion of p/s, he said that p/s were 1 of the top dps class combos in pvp. Now dps isnt actually the way to judge pvp, but even with him, we werent the best, just 1 of the top pvp combos and his opinion of p/s was so overinflated that it was sort of breathtaking. So yes, if we were only 1 of the strong pvp combos, the nerf was unfair entirely. And quite honestly, based on lot of misinformation from people who tend to exaggerate in these forums.

Quoted from "ruisen2000;595548"

Why not just go P/M? Much easier than going Mage primary. Level 60 will be adequate for mage, no need to grind to 75.

Ruisen, I know you play Mage primary in Siege. Have you really ever tried playing P/M in Siege? I have, and for PvP it's not that good. At least, in my recent experience as a 75/58 P/M, it wasn't. (Yes, I'm not at level cap on Priest. Sue me. )

In all honesty, I have played my share of Mages in the past--M/P, M/D, and for a short while, M/R (back in Chapter 2; character still exists on an unplayed account, and has no diamonds on it to speak of.) I have had little luck with Mage primary characters in Siege but even at this late date I'd be willing to make the effort to *learn* how to play one. That's why I decided to drop Rogue for Mage and was hoping to be able to level the new class enough during the "birthday week" to get it to 75. That didn't happen, for various and sundry reasons I decline to discuss.

Not to mention that there's simply not *enough* TP available at this point in the character's "career" to properly and reasonably level the offensive skills I need as a Mage main.

Even though my sig says otherwise, I've been back to playing P/S in Siege, mainly as a support player. Farming and collecting merits, getting the discounts from the Library and doing the Forge and other offensive/defensive buffs, bringing defenses to the crystal towers, and occasionally defending against attackers there. With some small successes regarding the latter.

But it's *still* nowhere as satisfying as the pre-patch sieges. Before the patch, I could go in and have at least reasonable chances of being able to take out other players before they killed me. Now, those chances have dwindled to the point that I really *do* have to take them almost totally by surprise, use my immunes as best I can, and hope I have enough time to hit them with the "rotation" that ignorant folks say I should be "required" to use as a Priest. Sometimes it works. Most times, it doesn't. I'm sure you understand just how frustrating that can be.

I say "ignorant", since they've either never played a P/S or never played one regularly, at or near level cap. They simply do not *understand*, and probably never look outside their own narrow boxes.

Quoted from "Malignatus;595607"

Ruisen, I know you play Mage primary in Siege. Have you really ever tried playing P/M in Siege? I have, and for PvP it's not that good. At least, in my recent experience as a 75/58 P/M, it wasn't. (Yes, I'm not at level cap on Priest. Sue me. )

I've only seen Quaffy play it, and it seems to work fine. With IWB hitting twice for 60k, he one shots anyone under 110k HP easily (assuming no ridiculous Mdef, which is about 90% of the people we fight). But surely, its would be better to play than a P/S, since lightning, fireball and Silence (Quaffy's new favourite skill, always a nice lol moment hearing him go "wow, this is awesome!!!" when he goes around and tries to silence everyone ) is better than shot and Vamps arrows (which is basically useless).

And with my limitd experiences of playing a P/M for PvE using mage gear, its not that bad either. Lightning allows you to have a pretty much Mage playstyle - root the enemy, then nuke wih IWB and RT from afar. Or use Lightning and freeze as CC if you accidently pull more mobs then you can handle, then proceed to take them out one at a time.

Although a TP starved mage is not all that terrible either, since mage skills scale linearly, you won't notice much of an imporvement after 55 anyway, and on a level 75 mage, getting skills to level 55 should not be a big issue. I recently leveled my T-storm from level 55 to level 65, and it now hits the tiles in Coarse of Terror for 96k instead of 94k. In siege and instances, that difference is pretty much non-existant.

In the end we can run this whole discussion into the ground to the center of the earth and it won't matter one bit unless RW does or says something "official" and we all know that isn't going to happen. We had NO advance notice that a 3 second CD was going to be added to IB (patch notes does not count as advance notice as far as I'm concerned) and I'm sure if ANYTHING else is going to be done with it, which again I HIGHLY doubt, we will again have no notice of the change!

So I think it's best that we all focus on something else, because it's clear to me that IF our concerns are being fed back to RW in any way, shape or form then GF doesn't care enough to say to us "this is what we told RW should be done." 10,000 threads with 1 million comments aren't going to mean squat in the grand scheme of RoM. RW pretty much does what they want and we the players just have to deal with whatever they decide to do.

The REAL question should be, do you want to continue playing to see what gets buffed, nerfed or just plain broken next?

Quoted from "Choralone42;595659"

In the end we can run this whole discussion into the ground to the center of the earth and it won't matter one bit unless RW does or says something "official" and we all know that isn't going to happen. We had NO advance notice that a 3 second CD was going to be added to IB (patch notes does not count as advance notice as far as I'm concerned) and I'm sure if ANYTHING else is going to be done with it, which again I HIGHLY doubt, we will again have no notice of the change!

So I think it's best that we all focus on something else, because it's clear to me that IF our concerns are being fed back to RW in any way, shape or form then GF doesn't care enough to say to us "this is what we told RW should be done." 10,000 threads with 1 million comments aren't going to mean squat in the grand scheme of RoM. RW pretty much does what they want and we the players just have to deal with whatever they decide to do.

The REAL question should be, do you want to continue playing to see what gets buffed, nerfed or just plain broken next?

Really? How is that % mana cost on all your spells going? Oh, you don't have that anymore? I wonder if that could be because enough people bitched about it here in the forums that a change was effectively made over it... hmmm

I am looking at 67 page thread on Ice Blade nerf. 66 of those pages were posted way before it happened. And it is not the only thread, there were plenty of smaller ones.

So, any "it came out of the blue" rings hollow. People knew there was a danger. That class always had Damocles sword hanging over it, at least in its unintended role.

But the only "danger" to the class was PvP...I never saw anything about Ice Blade being OP in PvE. Did you?

Sure, fine, it was balanced for PvP, but they screwed over anyone who uses that combo for PvE in the process. There were ways they could have nerfed it that wouldn't have crippled it for PvE use...especially for heal-statted priests.

Quoted from "ruisen2000;595617"

Although a TP starved mage is not all that terrible either, since mage skills scale linearly, you won't notice much of an imporvement after 55 anyway, and on a level 75 mage, getting skills to level 55 should not be a big issue. I recently leveled my T-storm from level 55 to level 65, and it now hits the tiles in Coarse of Terror for 96k instead of 94k. In siege and instances, that difference is pretty much non-existant.

I always liked playing my P/m side, in many cases it was much faster than mage for questing, the only thing I missed having was discharge.
Even when level cap was 55, there wasn't that much difference in hit between a skill leveled to 10 or the same skill leveled to cap using the same gear. Only thing that made a noticeable difference was raising the wisdom and fire/wind skills.

The real sad part of the nerf is that if a P/s was one shotting people, they will still die just as fast and be on the boards whining about it. Someone will also be whining because iceblade can hit twice in three seconds.

Quoted from "effervescent;595689"

But the only "danger" to the class was PvP...I never saw anything about Ice Blade being OP in PvE. Did you?

Sure, fine, it was balanced for PvP, but they screwed over anyone who uses that combo for PvE in the process. There were ways they could have nerfed it that wouldn't have crippled it for PvE use...especially for heal-statted priests.

easy way to limit it's damage was to install a cooldown, so you can thank lazy programmers for it.
It should have been left alone. Melee classes were fond of saying 'stack pdef' but couldn't seem to understand that the same statement works with mdef.

Quoted from "ruisen2000;595617"

I've only seen Quaffy play it, and it seems to work fine. With IWB hitting twice for 60k, he one shots anyone under 110k HP easily (assuming no ridiculous Mdef, which is about 90% of the people we fight). But surely, its would be better to play than a P/S, since lightning, fireball and Silence (Quaffy's new favourite skill, always a nice lol moment hearing him go "wow, this is awesome!!!" when he goes around and tries to silence everyone ) is better than shot and Vamps arrows (which is basically useless).

And with my limitd experiences of playing a P/M for PvE using mage gear, its not that bad either. Lightning allows you to have a pretty much Mage playstyle - root the enemy, then nuke wih IWB and RT from afar. Or use Lightning and freeze as CC if you accidently pull more mobs then you can handle, then proceed to take them out one at a time.

Although a TP starved mage is not all that terrible either, since mage skills scale linearly, you won't notice much of an imporvement after 55 anyway, and on a level 75 mage, getting skills to level 55 should not be a big issue. I recently leveled my T-storm from level 55 to level 65, and it now hits the tiles in Coarse of Terror for 96k instead of 94k. In siege and instances, that difference is pretty much non-existant.

First, remember that I have Mage leveled to 58 on my toon. It's nowhere close to *your* Mage's level--and I know you haven't updated your sig. (I have faced your guild in Siege fairly recently and I know your Mage class is at or near the level cap.)

Second, even at level 58, my Mage is starved for TP. I used up virtually *every* TP orb (100, 1K, 10K , and 100K orbs) I had, saving a few 100K orbs to put into IWB. on the Priest side. I've pretty much gotten the useful General skills to at least lvl 55-56, and important Mage primary skills are fairly close. But also remember that *gear* plays an important part of "powering" any class, and that's where my toon is very deficient. For the most part, I've been using mostly unstatted armor and accessories and an old T7 Henolid's Staff of Admiration (lvl 50) that I had stored away "for later". I do have a T8 Root of Nightmares I can use when/if I take Mage to lvl 60.

Third, and using Lightning as an example, an M/P is *still* vulnerable to any ranged physical DPS toon after rooting it, and *all* Rogue primaries who've bothered to level up Throw and Combo Throw. (Gee, those two skills aren't OP? Ask Rusty...) If the Mage is lucky and doesn't get killed by ranged DPS, then yeah, ranging in to stun with Discharge will help. Somewhat. You then have to back out of range and hope your other instants (IWB, FB) will take out the target before Discharge wears off. Presuming that Discharge hit or wasn't resisted or immuned against (Serenstum), that is.

I see it as a low-confidence prospect, at best.

As a P/M, my toon is also quite TP-starved. After all, I still had to dump TP into Priest skills *other than* Ice Blades as I was leveling the toon. There are a lot of those and they suck up a huge amount of TP. I leveled IWB as best I could using the remaining 100K TP orbs I had. It's not been enough.

And no, I am *not* going to use a Reset Stone and steal TP that I've put into IB. Being an eternal optimist, difficult as it is right now, I *have* to believe/hope that GF/RW will see the error of their ways and either reverse the 3-second cooldown to IB, or greatly mitigate it in some way.

But as things stand for me right now, M/P doesn't cut it in Siege and I'm actually more useful overall in playing the toon as P/S. I can collect merits from the castle balloons, sometimes from the middle zone balloons, and do trades with my guildies. I'm usually Herald, which allows my more capable companions to concentrate on what they need to do. When I get enough merits, I go for the merit/crystal discounts from the Library and then boost the offense/defense buffs from the Forge and Lumber Yard. I buy and set up defensive towers. And, when necessary, I heal gates that have been Tornadoed and/or scrolled, as best I can. (P/S is *not* the healing machine that some of the more ignorant people here seem to think it is, not when using mostly Mage gear and Mage stats. And I do *not* have the resources to acquire and stat alternate Priest gear.)

I don't *like* my current role in Siege. But it will have to do for the time being.

Nothing needs to be done.

giving iceblade a travel time like fb or ferret sickle would have been a fine subtle nerf. to me it seemed to drop from above your head...but without a flight path like the green ball of ferret doom..it just was a machine gun.

now the enemy is...ch/m! dear god! that aoe, with like 200 range! it hit a few of us in 3v3 for over 600k (then saela laughing popped me with charged chop for even more...but used to that)

Quoted from "pazuzzu;595743"

giving iceblade a travel time like fb or ferret sickle would have been a fine subtle nerf. to me it seemed to drop from above your head...but without a flight path like the green ball of ferret doom..it just was a machine gun.

now the enemy is...ch/m! dear god! that aoe, with like 200 range! it hit a few of us in 3v3 for over 600k (then saela laughing popped me with charged chop for even more...but used to that)

That AoE and such a good mdef buff.. QQ.

But P/S was the class that really needed to get nerfed :/

Quoted from "Malignatus;595707"

Second, even at level 58, my Mage is starved for TP. I used up virtually *every* TP orb (100, 1K, 10K , and 100K orbs) I had, saving a few 100K orbs to put into IWB. on the Priest side. I've pretty much gotten the useful General skills to at least lvl 55-56, and important Mage primary skills are fairly close. But also remember that *gear* plays an important part of "powering" any class, and that's where my toon is very deficient.

I'd still encourage you to go P/M, it will take too long to level Mage side anyway. My question is, what do you have on P/S that a P/M doesn't have? The matk buff is about the only important one I can think of, except for maybe curing shot or whatever the healing elite is called. But P/M has so much more utility,and filler instants that actually do damage (albeit not as much as IB or IWB, but better than P/S, which has 0)

For leveling IWB, I'd simplely level up every skill by 2 or 3 less, and that usually gets me enough TP to level up a new skill, and that 2-3 levels won't effect anything by any noticable amount anyway. I'd wait for Chapter 6. Usually, at the start of each chapter, they'll reset your TP. And that should be next patch.

Quoted from "Malignatus;595707"

Third, and using Lightning as an example, an M/P is *still* vulnerable to any ranged physical DPS toon after rooting it, and *all* Rogue primaries who've bothered to level up Throw and Combo Throw. (Gee, those two skills aren't OP? Ask Rusty...) If the Mage is lucky and doesn't get killed by ranged DPS, then yeah, ranging in to stun with Discharge will help. Somewhat. You then have to back out of range and hope your other instants (IWB, FB) will take out the target before Discharge wears off. Presuming that Discharge hit or wasn't resisted or immuned against (Serenstum), that is.

Lightning is used as an instant for damage in siege, not for its root effect, except for against Knights or warriors. Even though damage will not be as nice on P/M, at least it'll do exponentially more damage then Shot or Vamps arrows that you have on P/S.

Quoted from "pazuzzu;595743"

now the enemy is...ch/m! dear god! that aoe, with like 200 range! it hit a few of us in 3v3 for over 600k (then saela laughing popped me with charged chop for even more...but used to that)

Tungsten said hi. He will use silence, lightning and fireball from now on.

Quoted from "ruisen2000;595755"

Lightning is used as an instant for damage in siege, not for its root effect, except for against Knights or warriors. Even though damage will not be as nice on P/M, at least it'll do exponentially more damage then Shot or Vamps arrows that you have on P/S.

Against warriors though, you have to make sure they aren't W/k with 1h sword and shield, that throw shield can put a real hurt on a caster.

I wouldn't spend diamonds on a reset stone to build your P/m up, way too many nerf hammers swinging. looks like P/s was only the beginning. Soon all classes will be throwing nerf balls in siege and it will take a full party of tosh geared 77's to clear FA.

They can add 90% damage (and a) heal reduction.

Quoted from "bleedingblak;595779"

They can add 90% damage (and a) heal reduction.

wouldnt tanks be op then? tbh (and off topic)they need to nerf bleeds on people i get hit for 4 k but take 40k dmage from bleeds?

Quoted from "bleedingblak;595779"

They can add 90% damage (and a) heal reduction.

And Wd/W would be permanently immune since their shield absorbs damage equal to 20% of their HP from every hit (doesn't expire like mage shields). (wait, is it Wd/W?)