Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Dkjester;596207"

So you are saying by that comment that Scouts didnt need to be nerfed and it was only complaining that caued it?

So you believe no class needs nerfing what so ever. Developers never release something and go "oops not what we wanted"?

im saying its working as intended, until someone complains about it. would they ever have touched or even looked at p/s until people said "hey im tired of ice blade get rid of it" same thing with scouts. they didnt make a mistake people just whined until it went away. this is just another case of someone wanting someone else's toys and when they cant get it they dont want anyone to have it either. its just wrong to wait til someones done spending time and money to gear and level a class combo then turn around and make all the stats they used on it obesolete with out any forewarning or new options. nerfing shouldnt be them just taking away, it should be more of a compromise

but i guess its as intended. but if all classes arent or are made as intended then why bother buffing a class or nerfing a class. you cant say that everytime they "change a class" its because "oops not what i wanted" its because people complained because a class sucked too hard or the class was better than them at something simple as that

Quoted from "1stfaze;596210"

im saying its working as intended, until someone complains about it. would they ever have touched or even looked at p/s until people said "hey im tired of ice blade get rid of it" same thing with scouts. they didnt make a mistake people just whined until it went away. this is just another case of someone wanting someone else's toys and when they cant get it they dont want anyone to have it either. its just wrong to wait til someones done spending time and money to gear and level a class combo then turn around and make all the stats they used on it obesolete with out any forewarning or new options. nerfing shouldnt be them just taking away, it should be more of a compromise

but i guess its as intended. but if all classes arent or are made as intended then why bother buffing a class or nerfing a class. you cant say that everytime they "change a class" its because "oops not what i wanted" its because people complained because a class sucked too hard or the class was better than them at something simple as that

so ur saying people shud get a 2 month notice before a nerf comes, so then all the QQ will be over by the time it is implemented....?

Quoted from "Cike;596211"

so ur saying people shud get a 2 month notice before a nerf comes, so then all the QQ will be over by the time it is implemented....?

Heck, a 2 month notice would be pretty sweet, I'd even settle for 2 weeks! Too bad it will never ever, EVER, ***EVER*** happen.

Quoted from "1stfaze;596210"

im saying its working as intended, until someone complains about it. would they ever have touched or even looked at p/s until people said "hey im tired of ice blade get rid of it" same thing with scouts. they didnt make a mistake people just whined until it went away. this is just another case of someone wanting someone else's toys and when they cant get it they dont want anyone to have it either. its just wrong to wait til someones done spending time and money to gear and level a class combo then turn around and make all the stats they used on it obesolete with out any forewarning or new options. nerfing shouldnt be them just taking away, it should be more of a compromise

but i guess its as intended. but if all classes arent or are made as intended then why bother buffing a class or nerfing a class. you cant say that everytime they "change a class" its because "oops not what i wanted" its because people complained because a class sucked too hard or the class was better than them at something simple as that

So the answer to my first question is yes. Not only yes, but that you saw nothing wrong with parties going with 5 scouts and 1 priest. That was a class that was "as intended". If that is the case no wonder you thought nothing was wrong with a skill that does one of the best dmg of any priest skill, that is spammable, with maximum range and almost no mana cost. If it wasnt OP, why did almost EVERY priest go p/s and gear with mage stats to play one in siege? Sounds like exactly how everyone FLOCKED to scouts.....

Anyone that didnt know a nerf was coming to p/s... really? That is all i can say. I predicted it would happen over 4 months ago. When you sat there and thought to yourselves "gosh i own all these players with a one button wonder", it shoulda entered your minds.

You needed MORE of a warning? Multiple threads about how OP they are. About how most people in game would say they want a nerf? You needed MORE of a warning?????? Scouts knew it was coming, they only didnt like it when it came cause they thought they NEVER would get nerfed.

Edit to add: Where were you asking for a "compromise" when scouts got nerfed? I dont remember seeing you posting as to how it wasnt fair and it needed to be undone. Do you think now that they should be returned to what they were? Or is your opinion only limited to what you think is fair or not? Will you have the same compassion if rogues get nerfed?

Quoted from "Dkjester;596217"

So the answer to my first question is yes. Not only yes, but that you saw nothing wrong with parties going with 5 scouts and 1 priest. That was a class that was "as intended". If that is the case no wonder you thought nothing was wrong with a skill that does one of the best dmg of any priest skill, that is spammable, with maximum range and almost no mana cost. If it wasnt OP, why did almost EVERY priest go p/s and gear with mage stats to play one in siege? Sounds like exactly how everyone FLOCKED to scouts...

Oh everyone went P/S to do damage in siege? Really? Cause I see alot more people play S/wdn in siege that aren't S/wdn in regular play than I ever see P/S. There were *maybe* 10 well geared dangerous P/S's in siege, and that's being generous.

Sooo different than scouts where all you ever saw were scouts. Siege had diversity, P/S could kill many classes and many classes could kill it. That's, hey, balance!

Anyone that didnt know a nerf was coming to p/s... really? That is all i can say. I predicted it would happen over 4 months ago. When you sat there and thought to yourselves "gosh i own all these players with a one button wonder", it shoulda entered your minds.

You needed MORE of a warning? Multiple threads about how OP they are. About how most people in game would say they want a nerf? You needed MORE of a warning?????? Scouts knew it was coming, they only didnt like it when it came cause they thought they NEVER would get nerfed.

Nerfs should *never* happen just because people hate being killed in PvP. This is not a PvP game, as much as people might love siege. It is a PvE game, and P/S was not OP in PvE in any way shape or form.

Edit to add: Where were you asking for a "compromise" when scouts got nerfed? I dont remember seeing you posting as to how it wasnt fair and it needed to be undone. Do you think now that they should be returned to what they were? Or is your opinion only limited to what you think is fair or not? Will you have the same compassion if rogues get nerfed?

Stop comparing P/S to Scouts. The situation is so different you have no idea. In Chapter 3 Scouts were all you ever saw in both PvE and PvP. Now you see every class in siege and they're VIABLE.

How often did you see a group of 9 P/S 2 healers and a tank burning through KBH? OH.. that's right.. never.

The "Think of the scouts!" argument is just as silly now as it was 100 posts ago when you were spouting it.

Quoted from "Borella;596220"

Stop comparing P/S to Scouts. The situation is so different you have no idea. In Chapter 3 Scouts were all you ever saw in both PvE and PvP. Now you see every class in siege and they're VIABLE.

How often did you see a group of 9 P/S 2 healers and a tank burning through KBH? OH.. that's right.. never.

The "Think of the scouts!" argument is just as silly now as it was 100 posts ago when you were spouting it.

I wasnt comparing p/s to scouts. MAYBE YOU MISSED THAT. I was comparing HIS comment about "as intended". So he claims if a class is designed a certain way at the start than they should stay that way... my points are merely to contradict his comment of "as intended". I figured that was straight forward enough with the "as intended". Another clue would be when i asked if he thought things should be put back for them and then would he have compasion for rogues when they get their nerf? I mean the point is way over here...... and you go way over there.

77/77/77 P/K, M/P Rerolled Mage because they nerfed me.

that comment right there shows your entire mentality... you were a P/S.. and they nerfed you and you MOVED ON. Didnt seem to slow you down much. So you are just proving exactly what i have said, you gear isnt worthless cause you can use it on a mage. You are a shining example of the fact that all you have to do is level the mage. You could even start another character and have all the quests ahead and with a whole week of double exp, it is MORE then possible.

If you thought you were right p/s wasnt op, why reroll so fast? Why not wait to see if this thread succeeds..... Unless you knew you were wrong already and were OP already and rolled something else the second the nerf was in place.... For you to do it so fast you either didnt care if the nerf is reversed or knew it was a valid nerf and moved on.

I knew personally 10 p/s in game that said "well if they arent gonna nerf p/s, than i am going p/s". That is just me, who isnt in a big guild. People that already had a priest said "i dont have to level a whole new char.. ill just go p/s that is SO EASY!"

YOU dont think p/s was op, that is fine, but RW DID believe it was...... At the end of the day your opinion didnt seem to matter.

Edit to add:
You said they shouldnt be nerfed due to pvp reasons but werent you one of the ones who said that Rising tide wasnt good enough cause you couldnt cast it while moving? like you HAVE to be able to move while killing PVE..... No that is needed for PVP. So now that it is convenient you go and try to say it hurts PVE, but then when that is challenged you jump to it being bad for PVP, then when that is brought up, you go to PVE. Merry go round. Riding tide is more then viable for dmg PVE, pvp it isnt. So the nerf to IB is a fair nerf cause i am sorry anyone who has to have IB to kill PVE, must just have to have a one button class.....

Quoted from "Dkjester;596226"

I wasnt comparing p/s to scouts. MAYBE YOU MISSED THAT. I was comparing HIS comment about "as intended". So he claims if a class is designed a certain way at the start than they should stay that way... my points are merely to contradict his comment of "as intended". I figured that was straight forward enough with the "as intended". Another clue would be when i asked if he thought things should be put back for them and then would he have compasion for rogues when they get their nerf? I mean the point is way over here...... and you go way over there.

77/77/77 P/K, M/P Rerolled Mage because they nerfed me.

that comment right there shows your entire mentality... you were a P/S.. and they nerfed you and you MOVED ON. Didnt seem to slow you down much. So you are just proving exactly what i have said, you gear isnt worthless cause you can use it on a mage. You are a shining example of the fact that all you have to do is level the mage. You could even start another character and have all the quests ahead and with a whole week of double exp, it is MORE then possible.

I knew personally 10 p/s in game that said "well if they arent gonna nerf p/s, than i am going p/s". That is just me, who isnt in a big guild. People that already had a priest said "i dont have to level a whole new char.. ill just go p/s that is SO EASY!"

YOU dont think p/s was op, that is fine, but RW DID believe it was...... At the end of the day your opinion didnt seem to matter.

Edit to add:
You said they shouldnt be nerfed due to pvp reasons but werent you one of the ones who said that Rising tide wasnt good enough cause you couldnt cast it while moving? like you HAVE to be able to move while killing PVE..... No that is needed for PVP. So now that it is convenient you go and try to say it hurts PVE, but then when that is challenged you jump to it being bad for PVP, then when that is brought up, you go to PVE. Merry go round. Riding tide is more then viable for dmg PVE, pvp it isnt. So the nerf to IB is a fair nerf cause i am sorry anyone who has to have IB to kill PVE, must just have to have a one button class.....

Nobody should ever have to reroll to a completely new class and spend dias on daily quest tickets because Runewaker ruined their class. If you think that's balance...

P/S wasn't OP. I'm sorry that you know bad players who couldn't counter it or wanted to take the easy way out. That's not the classes fault, that's their fault.

Just because I personally chose to reroll to mage instead of playing a completely broken class, that does not mean it is what everyone should have to do.

Quoted from "Borella;596231"

Nobody should ever have to reroll to a completely new class and spend dias on daily quest tickets because Runewaker ruined their class. If you think that's balance...

P/S wasn't OP. I'm sorry that you know bad players who couldn't counter it or wanted to take the easy way out. That's not the classes fault, that's their fault.

Just because I personally chose to reroll to mage instead of playing a completely broken class, that does not mean it is what everyone should have to do.

However, you, MR ALL KNOWLEDGABLE..... Thought not to even wait for the class to have a chance to get "unbroken". Sorry that seems alot like when scouts go nerfed, most migrated to something else fast. Now before you go all REEEEEEEEEE about this not being the same... the principle stays the same:

class is OP
Everyone knows it, and expects a nerf and posts flying on the forums about it being OP
Nerf comes
Some complain and hope to get it over turned while others just move on.

Should you HAVE to roll to another class? no, Should scouts have had to roll to another class? Again i didnt see you saying how "people shouldnt have to reroll, blah blah" when that happened.

So where was that compassion at that time? If rogues get nerfed will you make the same comments?

if you have been playing this game a while... nerfs are part of the game. Make class OP, everyone switches, give them their time in the sun, let them spend lots of money, and then NERF IT. The cycle repeats. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY are you so shocked. It has happened before, it will continue to happen. THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY OFF OF PEOPLE THAT CHASE FOTM. Someone who claims to know so much that hasnt seen this problem years ago... is just blind.

EDIT to add: I dont think it is right. however i am not shocked, just like i dont see an unnerf ever coming to this skill. This is why i have many characters, and never tried to have what people like as my class. I play what i find fun. I can say i have 3 P/s (two are support chars used as healers in our groups for the magic attack buff for my mage, one runs p/k other p/s. Gf has the other cause she loves playing s/p, so she has a p/s and m/s gear is useable on the p/s), i havent rerolled them and in PVE, i have not seen ANYTHING that ruined the character. I just have to use skills instead of spamming Iceblade

Why is this even still being argued. All the classes that took Scout as their third class and got it to 50+ just for siege will continue to whine and all the rest will continue to defend the nerf. Not like either side is going to concede anything.

It's very easy to selectively address certain parts of the others arguments and ignore the rest, and that's all that's happening here -.-

Big circle is a circle.

Quoted from "purple;596236"

Why is this even still being argued. All the classes that took Scout as their third class and got it to 50+ just for siege will continue to whine and all the rest will continue to defend the nerf. Not like either side is going to concede anything.

It's very easy to selectively address certain parts of the others arguments and ignore the rest, and that's all that's happening here -.-

Big circle is a circle.

You are very right, that is why i said Borella doenst think it was OP, RW did and nerfed it. Game, set, match.

I guess i always like to catch people in lies about their motives. The motives of the P/S players is, "i loved my IB cause it was AWESOME, now it is less awesome, WAHMBULANCE"

No sense trying to throw people contradictions anymore... they just go "NUH UHH"

Very right dear sir. Off this thread.

the only reason nobody complained about having to reroll after scout nerf was because every scout and their brother was a s/r, so they all just went rogue, so the only loss really was the scout burns...

the only problem with rerolling options is that as far as i can tell, the split of m/s/p and p/k/s is about 50/50, and while the mages don't have much to lose, the knights are screwed...

Quoted from "Dkjester;596207"

So you are saying by that comment that Scouts didnt need to be nerfed and it was only complaining that caued it?

So you believe no class needs nerfing what so ever. Developers never release something and go "oops not what we wanted"?

The big difference is that scouts were OP. The damage calculations were way off and also going dex vs dex, not the normal attack vs defense. In chapter 3 an ungeared scout 10 or more levels lower could take out a very well geared knight in a couple shots. The only classes that could get runs in ch 3 were scouts, tanks and priests. It's one of the reasons holy candle shield was nerfed and group heal was set to generate fatigue.
Most scouts rolled to rogues, Which is one reason why there are so many today.
Caster attacks have always gone mattack against mdef, if they were OP as scouts were, parties would just have P/s, no need for healer or tanks and you'd never see other classes on scrut anywhere, which was the way it was with scouts in chapter 3.

reduce the range to 100 and problem solved.

This whole "you shouldn't nerf a skill because of pvp" is a crock, the fact is m/p/s were going to siege as p/s in pvp in their mage gear, but in pve you rarely saw as many p/s running around. This was a class combo that did not get play until the third class was added. If it wasn't OP then why were mages going as p/s?

No other skill has the benefits of Iceblade, chapter 3 shot was the closets thing and they took care of that. Frankly some guilds would have more p/s then r/s. It made siege frustrating for many players. As I have stated before these p/s who said "we're not OP you need to L2P" are given a dose of their own medicine. But rather then learning to adapt they are rerolling. The class combo was 80% used for pve, and yes the skill was an unfair advantage. If it wasn't we would not have had so many p/s in siege.

The change was made because there truly was an unfair advantage and the devs and gameforge have to keep the game alive, seeing non p/s frustrated by this skill does not serve the ultimate goal of generating a player base and revenue. When a tank with 300k hp is taken out by a priest before he ever gets near him is imbalanced.

Quoted from "regentego;596268"

This whole "you shouldn't nerf a skill because of pvp" is a crock, the fact is m/p/s were going to siege as p/s in pvp in their mage gear, but in pve you rarely saw as many p/s running around. This was a class combo that did not get play until the third class was added. If it wasn't OP then why were mages going as p/s?

No other skill has the benefits of Iceblade, chapter 3 shot was the closets thing and they took care of that. Frankly some guilds would have more p/s then r/s. It made siege frustrating for many players. As I have stated before these p/s who said "we're not OP you need to L2P" are given a dose of their own medicine. But rather then learning to adapt they are rerolling. The class combo was 80% used for pve, and yes the skill was an unfair advantage. If it wasn't we would not have had so many p/s in siege.

The change was made because there truly was an unfair advantage and the devs and gameforge have to keep the game alive, seeing non p/s frustrated by this skill does not serve the ultimate goal of generating a player base and revenue. When a tank with 300k hp is taken out by a priest before he ever gets near him is imbalanced.

What balance? And what player base? The skill has a purpose but 3 send cool down is not the answer.
it is a ranged skill and there arent other skills to compensate. It ruined the class for pve.

Quoted from "timthum;596271"

What balance? And what player base? The skill has a purpose but 3 send cool down is not the answer.
it is a ranged skill and there arent other skills to compensate. It ruined the class for pve.

That's like saying p/m or p/k was ruined for pve, yet I see both classes, risingtide+IB+Frostscars+chain, Its a matter of doing what nearly every other class has to do, use more then one button. I have a p/r and that's a gimped class combo yet I have no problems killing anything. Everyone is upset cause they can't IB IB IB...now what? Yup use the tools you have rather then bargaining with a poll that is going to go no where. And seriously about 20% of the p/s actually played p/s in PVE. Lets not make it something its not, it was a bunch of mages switching for siege. IB was the ultimate easy button.

Quoted from "regentego;596277"

That's like saying p/m or p/k was ruined for pve, yet I see both classes, risingtide+IB+Frostscars+chain, Its a matter of doing what nearly every other class has to do, use more then one button. I have a p/r and that's a gimped class combo yet I have no problems killing anything. Everyone is upset cause they can't IB IB IB...now what? Yup use the tools you have rather then bargaining with a poll that is going to go no where. And seriously about 20% of the p/s actually played p/s in PVE. Lets not make it something its not, it was a bunch of mages switching for siege. IB was the ultimate easy button.

People going "it had a specific purpose" makes me laugh, yea its "purpose" was to be OP in PVP. Eb is 10000% correct. One button wonders loved owning pvp. Ill admit i was a m/p/k and i was tempted MORE than once to go m/p/s so i could be m/p and m/s pve, but then p/s for pvp. Unlimited instant casts WOOHOO. However, i didnt because i KNEW this class was going to get nerfed. I just had to wait.

My gf has leveled p/r, p/s, p/k, p/m. To her IB was never the only skill she used. IB was not necessary for PVE, it was a PVP tool. Everyone is only now saying it wasnt cause they dont like that it was fixed.

I dont see you all saying how W/M didnt deserver their nerf on their elite skill and it needs to be put back and it "ruined pve". You all are only crying about your one button wonder. If it ruined PVE, why do other priest classes have no problem killing without a spammable skill? p/k, p/r, p/m can kill mobs ... they dont have iceblade. So how is removing iceblade "ruining PVE"? no one has answered that.

The answer is, it didnt. You all liked the simplicity of no rotation needed. It really ruined it in PVP, which it was OP for no matter what you say. Just take your nerf and Learn 2 Play

so much tl:dr so im just gonna comment, yes scouts had a severe edge in both pve and pvp in ch3, but the blame can be left to the players. in ch 3 after scouts were nerfed people were still able to clear Rt and Kt with little problems. it's not a scouts fault for gearing and playing. its the other players, the "we hate scouts" group ,that never even attempted the instances or considered counter measures for siege. if u run in like a fool you'll die like one.

thats the accused problem with p/s people believed they should be able to run into a ranged dps and live without being geared to do so. because so many people wanted revenge for thier toon's death the one they geared and leveled and put so much time into(just like the p/s that killed them), they began the ever present "NERF" chant.

Then people jump on the forums trying to justify a nerf to p/s, calling them 1 button spammers, like thats a valid argument
p/s' had a rotation it just didn't involve dps skills since they had so few effective ones, why on earth would you purposely use weak attacks when trying to kill? The only true problem with p/s was the range thats it, the damage wasnt that bad especially in comparison to other classes. some people will argue and say they got hit by a 150k iceblade, which is true they did infact take a 150k ice blade but they also were undergeared and more than likely had 0 mdef or like 20k.

As i said before, the class was made as intended, the cool downs worked, the damage scaled properly their elites were made with fire power in mind. the real issue with p/s or any so called "OP" class combo is the person who learns how to gear them properly and knows what skills need to be used to maximize effectiveness, if they become too good they get copied, called a flavor of the month then nerfed.

p.s. any p/s that spamms ice blade has already learned to play their class, if i fight a p/s that hits me with chain of light he's clearly a moron spamm me with iceblade or you are 100% useless simple as that.

Quoted from "regentego;596277"

That's like saying p/m or p/k was ruined for pve, yet I see both classes, risingtide+IB+Frostscars+chain, .

you mean to tell me a p/m or p/r or p/k also has ice blade >.> pls tell me more

Quoted from "regentego;596277"

That's like saying p/m or p/k was ruined for pve, yet I see both classes, risingtide+IB+Frostscars+chain, Its a matter of doing what nearly every other class has to do, use more then one button. I have a p/r and that's a gimped class combo yet I have no problems killing anything. Everyone is upset cause they can't IB IB IB...now what? Yup use the tools you have rather then bargaining with a poll that is going to go no where. And seriously about 20% of the p/s actually played p/s in PVE. Lets not make it something its not, it was a bunch of mages switching for siege. IB was the ultimate easy button.

K, give P/s a few more instants like P/m and P/k both have and complaints would drop down quite a bit.
Do a quick look at the priest skill page on rom wiki, then check the usable general skills of each class combo.
Vamp arrow and shot are laughable for P/s, with a level 60 bow it takes several hits to kill balloons near castle using them.
And honestly, other than P/m, I don't know many priests who use bone chill, many don't even have it on their bar, and have never seen ice fog used by anyone other than new priests.
chain of light gets broke whenever you get hit.
Being viable in siege depends entirely on instant hits, P/s has one instant that does anything.