Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "vfwiffo;599545"

Changing code is far more difficult than changing data setting.

No, it's not. Not for a skilled programmer anyways. If the code is properly commented, and the people know what they are doing/working with, editing code is fairly easy. I have been working with various programming languages for about 14 years now, including/going back to DOS, and if the people at RW can't figure out how to do it, they need to hire new people.

re: hire new people

that's probably the problem right there... they don't teach kids how to properly code anymore.

The original RoM code was probably written by a very dedicate core group of programmers; well, both the programmers at the time. lol )

That code is now being handled by kids who ask, "Why do _I_ have to check that pointers are dereferenced and such? The garbage collection routines should have taken care of that!" ...and cue the memory explosion

Easy way to explain away the above charge is to state that you do not have to buy anything to get these items. The game is completely playable with $0 money spent, as there are ingame functions to provide the same final effect. By purchasing items with real money, you are paying for the possibliity of non-tangible goods.

Lotteries are regulated because they promise a possible chance of real-world tangible good or services. Even then they are only regulated so the governments can tax those winnings, not to protect you.

Quoted from "vfwiffo;599545"

Owenstein was not created. He was repurposed, and that was a pretty major effort for FA. There is a big difference between creating and repurposing. And I am not even going to mention that jewel success rate is not a piece of data, it is a block of code. Changing code is far more difficult than changing data setting.

OK, I lied. I will mention it. I'll also mention that golden eggs were made bound by RW, in a patch, not by FA/FEU/GF.

Again rusty, this is not in programming, but DB, and just as they can change on fly item from being bound to being not bound (just by running update SQL query) they can change chance of plussing/fails, as if those were constants, we would see the same for all, +6. +12 and +16 gems. We all know that is not true... some are 'MORE' likely to fail.

If update query was applied in game maitnenance, does not have to be provided by RW.

Some games, like 'that other game we should not mention, that looks like RoM, but a bit older' provide all of those in config file. (not even DB)

Why are you so much against gems becoming not 'fail'?? (I know, you like to make my life miserable, just because I am trying to marry you to Zid... )

Quoted from "RoMage;599522"

That is completly wrong Rusty. They (GF) have full controll over fail rate, as well over many other rates, like XP, TP, drops.... Evertything is aprt of DB and it is just DB settings. Some private servers changed rate of success/fails, no reason GF can not do it, if they want to keep customers happy (which is questionable).

One of other things that changed rescently (to worst) is galloping gale pot. I used to get always over 100 of them with 6 HK, now 45 is 'great', 60 rare and mostly happy with 15 of them.

You are confusing what GF can and cannot do with what the game developer, Runewaker (RW), can do.

First, GF doesn't write code to make changes to the game. They *can* create packages to put into the Item Shop. Otherwise, RW writes the game code and then issues patches to GF. Some of those patches are server-only and don't require a patch for the game client, so we never see an announcement about them.

As for getting housekeeper pots and food items, that's a basic function of the game and GF cannot and has not made any changes to what pots or food, and how many you receive. There are days when I get craptons of Galloping Gale pots, and other days I get a relatively "small" number of them. The same thing goes for other pots.

And what someone does with stolen intellectual property (IP) is completely irrelevant.

Quoted from "RoMage;599537"

Rusty, if they don't have someone to adjust those settings (or disable them) and are not willing even to ask GW for help, then yes, it is time to download that other game...

Think about it, this is some 'basic' settings, and games that I supported those are MAIN things game admin should 'play with' to make population life misserable... (in our case) or enjoyable...

If Swag was able to create Owenstain, set his exchanges, if they were able to make golden eggz non-tradable, then I don't see how different this is from asking to remove fails.

As Rusty said, Owenstein was repurposed. That was done by RW, and Frogster/Gameforge was given the ability by *RW* to have Owenstein give out a (probably limited) set of items. GW also has the ability to place him anywhere they like--I've seen him in various locations in Varanas, and at least once (I think) in Obsidian Stronghold, always in Channel 1.

But Owenstein wasn't created or changed by GF. That was done by RW. GF simply doesn't have the ability to do that.

You are so full of fail today. Maybe that's because it's a Monday.

Quoted from "yodased;599558"

Easy way to explain away the above charge is to state that you do not have to buy anything to get these items. The game is completely playable with $0 money spent, as there are ingame functions to provide the same final effect. By purchasing items with real money, you are paying for the possibliity of non-tangible goods.

Lotteries are regulated because they promise a possible chance of real-world tangible good or services. Even then they are only regulated so the governments can tax those winnings, not to protect you.

Do a little checking and you will find out that courts have ruled that online games and the properties you own in them are considered real life goods ... and ... people have been prosecuted for hacking/stealing in some games, also they have deemed the ULA's are not legal and binding and game are subject to the laws of the area they are registered in.

and I see that most of these posts are now being deleted .. companys do like people to know when they are breaking laws

Well, my day did start with 'fail', but Malignatus, do you know for facts that this is exactly how rusty and you see it. Either you know something we all don't or you, just like Rusty don't give any credits to RW creativity to make game that is possible to be adjusted by DB admin.

I am more then sure that coding is not required to change 'fail' rate, that is simple field in DB used by program to calculate and randomize, but as I have alerady said - those settings are not the same for all items in question. (we all know that, don't we?)

Quoted from "yodased;599558"

Lotteries are regulated because they promise a possible chance of real-world tangible good or services. Even then they are only regulated so the governments can tax those winnings, not to protect you.

Yes, but when you play the lottery, if you don't win they don't come to your house and take MORE money from you.

Quoted from "linkit;599566"

and I see that most of these posts are now being deleted .. companys do like people to know when they are breaking laws

You seem to be the only one making that particular claim--that GF is "breaking laws". Have you considered that GF is only selling you Diamonds, and that *you* are the one choosing to expend them however you wish? And it's not as if you aren't informed in advance (before you "buy" the item from the IS) that there are chances that certain items you *choose* to select may fail. Unless, of course(tm), *you* either don't read or if tend to ignore the item description. I don't see that as being "gambling" or a "lottery". Your argument is disingenuous, irrelevant, and appears intended to derail this thread. Quit while you're behind, mmkay?

Quoted from "RoMage;599568"

Well, my day did start with 'fail', but Malignatus, do you know for facts that this is exactly how rusty and you see it. Either you know something we all don't or you, just like Rusty don't give any credits to RW creativity to make game that is possible to be adjusted by DB admin.

I am more then sure that coding is not required to change 'fail' rate, that is simple field in DB used by program to calculate and randomize, but as I have alerady said - those settings are not the same for all items in question. (we all know that, don't we?)

I could never be confused as or identified as being a "programmer", even on my best day (which never falls on a Monday). But I've been playing computer games, not just RoM, for quite a number of years. I cannot dissect them, but I'm aware of certain "standard" routines that are programmed into them. The good old "random number generator" falls into that category. As has been stated elsewhere--not necessarily on these forums--RNGs aren't as "random" as most people, including a lot of programers, really think they are. Ask Rusty.

Those shadowy RNGs are the basis for plussing gem failures, housekeeper food/pot drops, mob drops, boss drops, combat attack hits/misses, and so on, most or all modified by other things, including database entries.

Fire up Dungeon Loots and take a look at any of the instances, bosses, and what those bosses can drop. In such cases, the RNG determines not only the item, but the dura of the item and the stat that appears on the item (also a DB item itself). I don't know if a luck potion (IS item or housekeeper pot) can affect the item drop itself, the dura of the item, or what stat will be on it. Maybe YomanROM knows, or someone else at RoMWelten. As I said, I'm not a programmer. But it's all tied together through the mob's entry in one or more DB files and what the RNG determines, likely when the boss is generated when the given instance is entered. Just a guess, but my basic premise is no more or less accurate than anyone else's outside of GF or RW.

As for plussing gem failure rates, there are probably percentages for success/fail/fail+level drop hard-coded into each class of not just vendor gems, but also each class of non-perfect gems. By class I mean "level restriction", not the gear type. I don't know what those percentages are, but it's obvious that the vendor gems have a far higher *percentage* failure rate (or lower percentage success rate) than do the IS gems. And it may be that the IS gems have different failure percentage rates from class to class, as well as from range to range (+1-6, +7-12, +13-16). It's here that the RNG is "god" and determines success, failure, or failure/level drop.

Owenstein: I remember when now-departed and unlamented (by me) Swag was first discussing him. And it took a couple of months for his (Owen's, not Swag's) august personage to be placed in Varanas, to give out goodies in exchange for in-game things that players purchased for gold. You know, the vaunted "gold sink" that everyone was crying for? Everyone except for the gold buyers and unrelated uber-rich account holders...

I also remember Swag going on and on in his podcasts how he was badgering his bosses at FA to get it done. Well, since GF doesn't actually do any programming, don't you think it took some time and badgering *by FA* to get RW to make the changes they eventually decided upon and get them implemented?

Owenstein is not the only NPC that GF can place at will, though the other NPCs seem to have specific, limited functions. I'm fairly certain that they were created by RW, and GF uses them whenever and however they see fit to do so.

No, I don't have inside information nor know any more about it than you do. But adding up all the statements made over the years by FA/GF staff regarding how changes are made by RW, and not GF...well, you get the idea. GF doesn't make direct programming changes to the game. That's RW's job, based on what they have planned for the game, as well as what
GF (or any other publisher) requests.

Quoted from "Malignatus;599578"

You seem to be the only one making that particular claim--that GF is "breaking laws". Have you considered that GF is only selling you Diamonds, and that *you* are the one choosing to expend them however you wish? And it's not as if you aren't informed in advance (before you "buy" the item from the IS) that there are chances that certain items you *choose* to select may fail. Unless, of course(tm), *you* either don't read or if tend to ignore the item description. I don't see that as being "gambling" or a "lottery". Your argument is disingenuous, irrelevant, and appears intended to derail this thread. Quit while you're behind, mmkay?

The definition of Gambling.

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.^[1] Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.


Just because they put a disclaimer beside it does Not mean they are not breaking the LAW

Why not just make an option to always buy perfect jewels? It could be a "hidden" macro, much like the rentable mailbox/ah/bank. This would still generate funds in dia sales for GF and appeal to the end gamers as they would be the only ones that would share it within their cliques.

Malignatus, I have been playing games from ZX Spectrum and C64 time, (at least trying to play them, not that I got much better at it ) and I witnessed game and whole industry grow from games programed in bedroom (or bethroom, I would think in many cases) to today industry standards.

Applying to programmer were crazy enough to hard program randomization (be it gems fail rate, my lazy housemaid crafting ability or instance/mob/boss drops) without using DB to easy be able to mentain thsoe values would be good example of bad programming. I don't think that RW did such a mistake, as even lame programmer, such as myself would not make that huge mistake.

All items and their characteristics are records in items table in database, including for example number that represent scope of fail in gems example.

Even if in worst case, this is HARD coded - would it be OVERKILL to ask RW to adjust them?

And my 5 cents - if it was RW in controll of those, fails for +5 and +6 would be fixed long time ago.

IMHO (and again, this is just opinion), those values were meant to be adjusted by game publisher, on servers, for example for test server those values would be changed dramaticaly) and we are experiencing term known as 'lost knowledge', as result of major changes in game publisher(s).

Quoted from "linkit;599580"

The definition of Gambling.

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.^[1] Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.


Just because they put a disclaimer beside it does Not mean they are not breaking the LAW

This has been brought up many times in the past, by quite a number of people. Because you believe it is gambling that just doesn't make it so.

Consider this: Gambling is controlled much more tightly than it is here in the US. RoM has been operating in Europe at least as long as it has been here. The game publisher (Frogster, and now Gameforge) has never been accused by any government entity of promoting gambling.

It might be best if you dropped your claim.


I'd say that your

Quoted from "Kalvan;599624"

This has been brought up many times in the past, by quite a number of people. Because you believe it is gambling that just doesn't make it so.

Consider this: Gambling is controlled much more tightly than it is here in the US. RoM has been operating in Europe at least as long as it has been here. The game publisher (Frogster, and now Gameforge) has never been accused by any government entity of promoting gambling.

It might be best if you dropped your claim.


I'd say that your

Since the subject of best is so important, I suggest to gameforge/runewaker "it might be best if you" remove the level drop of refining jewels.

Non existant CM's and GM's here please send that message to them. Many Graciases

Quoted from "romage;599560"

why are you so much against gems becoming not 'fail'?? (i know, you like to make my life miserable, just because i am trying to marry you to zid... :d)

loll

Quoted from "linkit;599580"

The definition of Gambling.

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.^[1] Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.


Just because they put a disclaimer beside it does Not mean they are not breaking the LAW

I'm also going to weigh in and debunk this... your definition says "money or something of material value." Diamonds are not material goods, nor money. You agree in the Terms of Service that they belong to Gameforge and that you have no right to sell them for real currency - Therefore, their real-world value is zero. Same with refinement jewels. You agree that they belong to Gameforge, and you have no right to sell them for real currency. Your gear is also covered under the same section.

You can't gamble if there is no way for you to profit from it.

As you cannot win additional money or material goods, it doesn't count as gambling, and cannot count as gambling by the definition you posted.

As this thread has effectively become a legal discussion, however, I'm going to close it down. If you have legal questions, I'm sure that Support can provide you with an e-mail address for Gameforge's legal department.