Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "effervescent;601017"

What? We've been told differently in the past...we've always been told that multiboxing is against the TOS and thus is a bannable offense, whereas multiclienting is fine. Was this rule changed at some point? If so, why was the TOS not updated to reflect the change?

It's been discussed several times in a different context (about multiple accounts), the the gist is that they updated the ToS around the end of last October so that they're the same across all regions (US/EU/AU).

http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthr…ll=1#post599805

Sure enough, I find nothing in the current ToS or Community Guidelines on the RoM homepage that even references multi-clienting or multi-boxing.

There is multi boxing software that would allow you to do this by your own hand....... I think we are doomed

Quoted from "Southern;601022"

It's been discussed several times in a different context (about multiple accounts), the the gist is that they updated the ToS around the end of last October so that they're the same across all regions (US/EU/AU).

http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthr…ll=1#post599805

Sure enough, I find nothing in the current ToS or Community Guidelines on the RoM homepage that even references multi-clienting or multi-boxing.

You didn't look hard enough. From their own ToS:

Quoted

You may access the System and use it to play the Game from any single computer or game platform. You shall not access the System or play the Game concurrently on different computers and/or game platforms.

And from that same thread you linked, Yoman was talking about having multiple accounts. Not multiboxing. From the same thread: http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthr…ll=1#post599941

Quoted

Using them concurrently is a slightly different thing, if i remember correctly (not from terms but from Silberfuchs back then ): if youre going to run multiple clients at once, do it a) manually without 3rd party software and b) stick to one machine (aka multiCLIENTING is ok, multiBOXING would be not).

Question still remains: Why has the ToS not been updated if there was, in fact, a change in policy, and why are there so many conflicting ideas on the subject?

Quoted from "zidlef;601051"

Well i can play 5 different accounts on my computer at full graphics, if i lower them to minimum i can run like 11. I have a beasty machine, i know, lol. Now since we have no more limited account as per new TOS, time to make more accounts, YEAH!!! hell no lol.

I've seen a video on youtube of a person who controls up to 6 ROM accounts by one account, on a huge screen split in 6 separate window lol, i think that is wrong to be allowed and bannable, but how to prove it?? He can do instances by himself/herself like DoD, WA. None that requires real strat, but still, to farm mems. I think this should be look at by blue text and if they could give us a clear answer. There are unscrupulous people in game and don't really care about ROM.

We care enough to put out our opinions ;-)

TYVM

i got two more things to add, the thing above with seperate monitors and the right rigs, you can run 15 screens attached to multiple computers and have one mouse and keyboard and treat it like a huge virtual desktop. Aka you move the mouse to the far left hand side of one screen and it jumps to the next screen. In essence taking multiple cpus/gpus etc to build one HUGE screen made up of multiple monitors. There is software that will detect which screen the mouse is on and auto switch the mouse and the keyboard to control that screen, regardless of which cpu/gpu it is running off of. I think the towers are called... Razor stacks. Not 100% on that. Those rigs however cost BIG $$$$$.

Second part i wanna put in, is technically using a program that sends keyboard commands from one computer to another via home network/internet is not considered "human control". This is what i was told a while ago by a gm. If you have multiple computers, you need multiple mice/keyboards. Not one keyboard/mouse that sends commands remotely to another computer set up to receive them.... In face there used to be a healer addon called PriesterIX, which stopped development because it did this and it was determined against game rules, and i loved it


Which the second sounds more like what you were dealing with Zid.

Edit to add: Now i also agree with the guy about the whiners comment etc. I am all for mechanical advantage, WITHIN game rules. Calling people whiners is no more than a childish response. This is a good topic for discussing cause there is a fine line, which some like to dance as close to without going over. I would assume you are one of the ones doing something similar since you literally came in just to name call and be a little troll.

Quoted from "effervescent;601049"

You didn't look hard enough. From their own ToS:

And from that same thread you linked, Yoman was talking about having multiple accounts. Not multiboxing. From the same thread: http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthr…ll=1#post599941

Question still remains: Why has the ToS not been updated if there was, in fact, a change in policy, and why are there so many conflicting ideas on the subject?

Hmm.. That's weird. They're all *supposed* to be the same, according to Laghmara, but the US one is still different than the EU & AU ones (those two don't contain the "single computer" reference.)

So far as the discussion about multiple accounts, I did say that the thread was from a different context; the link was only to point out that they supposedly changed all the Terms of Service to match across regions back in October of last year.. However, they seem to have missed U.S.

Quoted from "Southern;601070"

they seem to have missed U.S.

Not sure if they missed us, or was on purpose...

Missed would be assuming they acknowledge our existance at all. (Tehe, I made a joke.(maybe.))

Quoted from "ycavan;601021"

@Charlie: I think that pushes the boundaries all right ) But what you describe would fall under the botting category since you would be sending a signal to another client to perform the action. Yes, YOU would initiate the action on your dps toon's toolbar, but the addon that you are describing would act as a botting tool since SOMETHING has to initiate that same action on your healer and it's not you.

What is the difference between initiating it on a different screen? It'd simply bypass 1 un-needed click in switching screens? If we're allowed to have multiple clients, and we're at the computer, and we are there initiating the actions of both accounts, there shouldn't be a restriction of where we initiate it.

Would the same idea of an addon to skip unneeded or unwanted clicks already exist in the following fasion;

Daily Notes skips un-needed clicks when handing in quests.
Lootomatic skips un-needed clicks when picking up loot you want or discarding loot you don't.
ComeOnIn skips un-needed clicks when creating a group or inviting people to a party.
PetAutoCraft...well...yeah.
LastGroupInvite, AutoRepair,TitleSelect, Fusion, UltimateMailMod, PetAutoEvent, QuickAttire and Restack all have automated actions to get rid of unneeded clicks. And those are just from the addons I currently have on my computer.

Lol

Quoted from "CharlieBananas;601077"

Daily Notes skips un-needed clicks when handing in quests.
Lootomatic skips un-needed clicks when picking up loot you want or discarding loot you don't.
ComeOnIn skips un-needed clicks when creating a group or inviting people to a party.
PetAutoCraft...well...yeah.
LastGroupInvite, AutoRepair,TitleSelect, Fusion, UltimateMailMod, PetAutoEvent, QuickAttire and Restack all have automated actions to get rid of unneeded clicks. And those are just from the addons I currently have on my computer.

Here's the thing...
1. DailyNotes - you still have to click on the quest giver and perform an action: attack or double-click
2. Lootomatic - you still have to click on the corpse to start the loot process
3. ComeOnIn - This one is a little bot-ish. lol ) You get a message from another user and send an invite; I think they let it go because there's very little you can exploit with a party invite
4. Pet Auto-Craft - This one, the team still waffles on; not fully accepted & not fully classified as a bot yet
5. Last Group Invite - you still have to click on a menu item to send the party invites

etc... basically, from what I've read from the various Greens & Blues is that GF doesn't consider something bottish if you have to initiate the action on your own toon.

I think most people know what bottish-ness is.. it's when the toon in question is not being operated using it's own game window.

I'm just a Mentor, and can in no way be confused with a programmer of any kind. But I'm willing to take a swing at a few things here...

Quoted from "CharlieBananas;601077"

What is the difference between initiating it on a different screen? It'd simply bypass 1 un-needed click in switching screens? If we're allowed to have multiple clients, and we're at the computer, and we are there initiating the actions of both accounts, there shouldn't be a restriction of where we initiate it.

In my interpretation, any addon which could possibly perform such a function--and I don't know if it could be done--would be a violation of the ToS/EUALA, since it would be sending a command from one game client/toon to a second one. I'm not sure, but I think that kind of action was either disallowed or disabled quite some time ago. But I could be wrong about the latter.

Quoted

Would the same idea of an addon to skip unneeded or unwanted clicks already exist in the following fasion;

Daily Notes skips un-needed clicks when handing in quests.
Lootomatic skips un-needed clicks when picking up loot you want or discarding loot you don't.
ComeOnIn skips un-needed clicks when creating a group or inviting people to a party.
PetAutoCraft...well...yeah.
LastGroupInvite, AutoRepair,TitleSelect, Fusion, UltimateMailMod, PetAutoEvent, QuickAttire and Restack all have automated actions to get rid of unneeded clicks. And those are just from the addons I currently have on my computer.

Disregarding PAC for the time being, as that particular addon has been recognized (by the author!) for the possibility of it being abused...

All of the other addons you listed immediately and directly affect a single account/toon when used. None of them affect or send an action command to another toon that is automatically processed. Each one requires a/the player to manually do something--click on an NPC, click a button, click on an item, and so on. (I don't use UltimateMailMod so I've never seen how it works.)

Having one or more toons, in a multiclienting situation, following each other around is allowed. It can also be humorous to watch at times, especially if they're all dressed alike.


Regarding multiclienting vs. multiboxing: Again, this is my interpretation as to why the latter is not allowed. For example, you have two computers running separate clients, and you're deft enough to use two keyboards or programmable rodents at once. (Not me, I'm ambidextrous--I can screw up anything with either hand.)

Client #1 is running a DPS toon, client #2 is running a healer, both are in the same party. Toon #1 does all the mob or player killing (PvP or Siege) while Toon #2 heals or otherwise buffs Toon #1. It's a simple example, but there is a distinct and unfair advantage here, and that's disallowed by the ToS/EUALA.

Without using illegal 3rd party software, this cannot normally be done in a multiclienting situation (two clients on one computer), since there would be almost constant switching between the two clients. At one time or another, one of the clients loses "focus" (computer term, not game term) and becomes inactive, with the toon standing there doing nothing but looking stupid.

So, in that respect, that's a simple example as to why multiboxing isn't (or wasn't) allowed in RoM. (Yes, I know. I'm contradicting Nenysvor. I'm sure he'll punish me later on.)

Quoted from "Kalvan;601186"

Without using illegal 3rd party software, this cannot normally be done in a multiclienting situation (two clients on one computer), since there would be almost constant switching between the two clients. At one time or another, one of the clients loses "focus" (computer term, not game term) and becomes inactive, with the toon standing there doing nothing but looking stupid.

You are mistaken. You can control 2 - 3 clients without any 3rd party software by just running RoM on separate machines.

Quoted from "Kalvan;601186"

So, in that respect, that's a simple example as to why multiboxing isn't (or wasn't) allowed in RoM. (Yes, I know. I'm contradicting Nenysvor. I'm sure he'll punish me later on.)

Is this your opinion or is this the official Gameforge position?
Can I have Egg Rice, please?

Can you guys get together and form a coherent position on the subject. Previously, both Frogster and Gameforge allowed multiple clients. Kalvan, you either need to think more about your role or congratulations on your promotion.

Quoted from "Kalvan;601186"

Disregarding PAC for the time being, as that particular addon has been recognized (by the author!) for the possibility of it being abused...

It is abused on a daily basis, just go to any of the Pet item vendors and you'll see an afk toon staring at the guy on the donkey.

Quoted from "Kalvan;601186"

All of the other addons you listed immediately and directly affect a single account/toon when used. None of them affect or send an action command to another toon that is automatically processed. Each one requires a/the player to manually do something--click on an NPC, click a button, click on an item, and so on. (I don't use UltimateMailMod so I've never seen how it works.)

Having one or more toons, in a multiclienting situation, following each other around is allowed. It can also be humorous to watch at times, especially if they're all dressed alike.


Regarding multiclienting vs. multiboxing: Again, this is my interpretation as to why the latter is not allowed. For example, you have two computers running separate clients, and you're deft enough to use two keyboards or programmable rodents at once. (Not me, I'm ambidextrous--I can screw up anything with either hand.)

Client #1 is running a DPS toon, client #2 is running a healer, both are in the same party. Toon #1 does all the mob or player killing (PvP or Siege) while Toon #2 heals or otherwise buffs Toon #1. It's a simple example, but there is a distinct and unfair advantage here, and that's disallowed by the ToS/EUALA.

Without using illegal 3rd party software, this cannot normally be done in a multiclienting situation (two clients on one computer), since there would be almost constant switching between the two clients. At one time or another, one of the clients loses "focus" (computer term, not game term) and becomes inactive, with the toon standing there doing nothing but looking stupid.

So, in that respect, that's a simple example as to why multiboxing isn't (or wasn't) allowed in RoM. (Yes, I know. I'm contradicting Nenysvor. I'm sure he'll punish me later on.)

Have you 2 boxed before? I'm not sure if you have and it's not as hard or complicated as you are mentioning. If you are 2 boxing a dps and a healer, you just have the heals you want to use on keys that are in close proximity of alt+tab. You might lose a few seconds on your dps character, if not a few seconds, maybe one second to tab over cast an aoe heal and then 1 regen and another heal+regen, yea that's really hard to do.


You've must of seen failed boxers in you're experiences Kalvan or you've just failed trying to box yourself in the past. You don't need 3rd party junk or a super computer to do it either, just a brain and some common sense/logic.

Good thread though, I could of posted in the 1st page and ended it.

Next thread please.

Quoted from "tyrr;601191"

You are mistaken. You can control 2 - 3 clients without any 3rd party software by just running RoM on separate machines.

I did specify "multiclienting", not "multiboxing". There is a difference.

Quoted

Is this your opinion or is this the official Gameforge position?
Can I have Egg Rice, please?

My opinion, as I'm a Mentor. And, no, you may not.

Quoted

Can you guys get together and form a coherent position on the subject. Previously, both Frogster and Gameforge allowed multiple clients. Kalvan, you either need to think more about your role or congratulations on your promotion.

Um, multiclienting has been determined to be multiple clients running on a single computer and was allowed even when RoM was run by FA. And it's still allowed by GF.

Quoted from "Stickingit;601196"

It is abused on a daily basis, just go to any of the Pet item vendors and you'll see an afk toon staring at the guy on the donkey.

Which is why I declined to comment further on PAC. It's not in my bailiwick.

Quoted

Have you 2 boxed before? I'm not sure if you have and it's not as hard or complicated as you are mentioning. If you are 2 boxing a dps and a healer, you just have the heals you want to use on keys that are in close proximity of alt+tab. You might lose a few seconds on your dps character, if not a few seconds, maybe one second to tab over cast an aoe heal and then 1 regen and another heal+regen, yea that's really hard to do.


You've must of seen failed boxers in you're experiences Kalvan or you've just failed trying to box yourself in the past. You don't need 3rd party junk or a super computer to do it either, just a brain and some common sense/logic.

I have not multiboxed--since it was decided by FA originally to be a violation of the ToS/EUALA. Not to mention that I have just one machine capable of running RoM. However, it doesn't take much imagination to understand how easily someone can multibox. My limitations in that respect are real, even if I did have a second or third machine with the minimum capabilities. I. Do. Not. Have. The. Physical. Deftness. To. Do. It. (I am not handicapped. I simply do not have the hand/eye coordination. Age and minor infirmities do that to you, and it's why I don't play console games--too many buttons and combos to keep track of.)

For someone who does have the equipment and physical ability, it's not an issue. And with programmable rodents being available, it should be even easier to accomplish. Players of Other Games have been doing it for years.

3rd party software would be required to completely and continuously control more than one toon while multiclienting, or so I opine here. And that, sir, would be a violation of the ToS/EUALA.

Zid, the blue did reply, on page 2. They said if you can manage to do it, do it. Just no botting.