Runes of Magic US / AU

RoM wont lose money on this.

If a couple end-gamers quit that's no big deal, they will come back next content and more people with endgame gear means more people spending diamonds to plus and stat it.

If they made it as hard as they wanted, less people are spending money because they are just gonna buy the hand-me-down gear the endgamers sell, therefore they aren't paying to plus and stat it.

RoM actually makes more money doing it this way than if they made it harder. Think about it.

The instance is too easy when guilds other than the top couple guilds on the server say it is too easy.

Quoted from "vfwiffo;603785"

The instance is too easy when guilds other than the top couple guilds on the server say it is too easy.

It's not easy until cloak solos it
[video=youtube;ehoagQz4Fxw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehoagQz4Fxw[/video]

Nerf mages so we can see cloak die in the next instance with the bosses at 1% hp again

This appears to be a fight of those who don't have, want.

And those who do have, don't want everyone to have what they have.

There is two opposing opinions, the matter is, that they will make more money off players if everyone can get the gear.

They don't care that you make money by "fleecing gear" to support yourself. They care about getting their money.

This whole 6.0.0 patch has a lot of mixed signals from whether they are trying to bring this game back to life, or if they are just squeezing what they can. Hope and disappointment package.

I think you have mis-interpreted the point of the people who "have" are trying to make.

It's not that they want things to be hard for those who are working their way up, but that now since that they are endgamers they're looking for the sort of challenge that they play this game for

So when they get slapped in the face with an instance like Bethomia the whole reason many play the game is lost. Once you finally get to an endgame level the gear doesn't matter as much as that reason.

I'm sure there are people who do play like that, as fan said, but it is wrong to say that endgamers are like that

Quoted from "RoMunited;603791"

I think you have mis-interpreted the opinion of the people who "have".

It's not that they want things to be hard for those who are working their way up, but that now since that they are endgamers they're looking for the sort of challenge that they play this game for

So when they get slapped in the face with an instance like Bethomia the whole reason many play the game is lost. Once you finally get to an endgame level the gear that you worked for doesn't matter as much as

I'm sure there are people who do play like that, as fan said, but it is wrong to generalize things like that.

So would you or Raves be ok with Hardmode dropping no better gear or stats than normal mode? That is truly the question. If you only care about the challenge, a hard mode with no better gear, or no better chances at gear, or no monetary bonus at all.... should be acceptable for you all... right? If what you are saying is true, that is. That is has NOTHING to do with gear. If you do think Hardmode should have a gear benefit..... then his comment does represent endgamers correctly.

Because an instance with no memento drops, permanent respawning boss4 (remember Chapeaunoire?) , and essentially halfed defense values and zero critical resistance with lower hp than the previous one can be taken seriously as a new hard mode 12 man instance?

The boss defense values are roughly equivalent to ToSh and even lower. HP is higher, so is todays DPS. And the bosses will still take MORE damage than those in ToSh NOW(!) because ToSH bosses have crit resist. this bosses do not.

This thread is not about selling gear, its about not having a challenge because broken pointless content got released.
Hell for what its worth noone needs even a piece of KBN gear to clear this thing (but you should certainly be level80 then) , someone burned the bosses with daggers from ToSH - thats 2011 stuff.

This is not "make it so hard only $me can farm and noone else". This is "uhm, challenge pls? wtf is this sh.t?"

the problem is that as soon the players find out that the second option is the case, "make it harder" becomes pointless without a complete rollback which they are certainly not going to do. The enthusiastic endgamers are the ones who bascially alphatested this thing the last 3 days. But there is not much that can be done now that all the gear is out in the wild. Atleast if someone at RW and GF has a brain..

I mean, the ragefest is just going to get bigger if they suddenly decide to ninja-patch up the values or even do it like they did to the training grounds and maybe shut down the hard mode of the instance completly. Whats the big deal about it? All the gear that already has been farmed "pre-fix" would put everyone who has said gear at a huge advantage "post-fix" and everyone else at a even hugher disadvantage.


A "quick n dirty" fix would be to upgrade the current mode so the instance has 4 instead of 3 modes. the current too easy hardmode could stay (although boss4 and memento drops should be fixed) and a template ala temple modes could be made for one additional mode with the proper values. Since farming world bosses becomes less and less rewarding, instead of mementos the extra hard mode could drop small amounts of proofs instead and maybe a higher chance for OD on the same items with the same values and stats. (And if they need mementos just go to the lower mode and burn everything down and thats it).

Noone in his right mind expected some ultra-hard instance (the last example of this was ChaosVortex with Level72, which is still not working properly or reliably until today) but at the least people who are prepared to tackle a hard mode expect to see an increase in difficulty roughly by the amount the gear upgrades the instance will provide, so a rather linear upgrade. NOT a difficulty level where everything got cut in half.

But to be realistic, unless RW just shoved this out early and was aware of all this in the first place and prepared for it (....) , i dont see whatever fix might be appropriate coming anytime soon.

The sad part is: If you even remotely want or expect a fix and are able to kill even a single boss in the instance, the only logical thing to do is: kill more, kill faster. Noone wants to be left behind because he was not there when the gear was available, current endgamer or not, and suddenly have a fixed/increased difficutly mode in front of you - because the stuff IS available. Its a different story if all had started with a higher difficulty to begin with. (just in case: "not everyone is geared equally" is NOT an argument in this case because the other instances do only make a difference in gear and skill, not in "you were here two days before, congrats, and you were not, gtfo").

E: bah, need more sleep, 6AM again. And Raves i invaded your vent and you werent there, boo :/ (but atleast Fan was =D)

Edit2: Dkjester, noone would run such a mode. Noone. Atleast not more than ONCE just for proof of concept that the mode is doable at all. The whole point of taking the challenge is getting to the rewards. There needs to be atleast SOME difference because the whole point of RAIDING is loot and rewards. And of course the harder the challenge the better the rewards need to be. (You can find my personal preferred solution in my above wall of text as a point of discussion though.) - 'night. || Yours is the same like purposefully skipping b1 in temple diamond to make the other bosses have insane damage buffs because of the cheating protection. Just not with the intention to actually cheat but to increase difficutly just for the hell of it without rewarding it. Would proof of concept runs be done? sure. Until cleared once. Then never again. Kinda pointless.

Quoted from "Dkjester;603792"

So would you or Raves be ok with Hardmode dropping no better gear or stats than normal mode? That is truly the question. If you only care about the challenge, a hard mode with no better gear, or no better chances at gear, or no monetary bonus at all.... should be acceptable for you all... right? If what you are saying is true, that is. That is has NOTHING to do with gear. If you do think Hardmode should have a gear benefit..... then his comment does represent endgamers correctly.

Of course they run hard mode for gear as well, someone already said part of the fun is the risk reward concept. I'm just saying that saying endgamers don't want other people to have gear is ignorant.

I'm actually not an endgamer though so my opinion on the gear/stats thing wouldn't be what you're looking for :p

I like the idea of an easy mode for mentos, normal (12 man) mode for gear, and hard more for challenge.
Insert titles into hard mode so epeens can be stroked as usual.

I've lived both perspectives.
Honestly, if they want more people to play, they need to have getting stuff be easier. Period. Whether they lower diamond prices, make gear easier to acquire via what they've done, or whatever. When 3 or so servers don't have guilds who can run the latest instance, not because because the instance is challenging but because there is a severe lack of people who meet the requirements of tha challenge, it is as broken as it is now. Finding the median might be the challenge for them.



I suppose I am a bit happy for the 6 people who couldn't find a second party of people on Palenque, Grimdal, and Indigo have something to run that is relevant for now...

To add to the hard mode thing, the hard modes would need to be very different in terms of length of the instance, added boss/mob abilities, and other stuff. The same things at every turn with only the number of mobs increased with an increase in attributes seems to be incredibly boring

Then have some other type of reward like the titles bananaman suggested and other worthwhile things

Compared to now? Don't think so because the higher amount of defense crit resistance and HP naturally forces the fight longer makes events appear at all for the first time.(they do have events, just noone gives a shit because you can burn with t6 gear and t9 weapons)

Quoted from "RoMunited;603795"

Of course they run hard mode for gear as well, someone already said part of the fun is the risk reward concept. I'm just saying that saying endgamers don't want other people to have gear is ignorant.

I'm actually not an endgamer though so my opinion on the gear/stats thing wouldn't be what you're looking for :p

I don't know how you can say it's ignorant.

I'll explain a little more in-depth. When you reach endgame, you can support your character without really having to break open the wallet. That's how endgamers stay endgamers. It's a society ladder. Those at the bottom have to put theirs in if they want to get to endgame, and those at endgame have paid theirs and are now benefitting from it.

You don't want people to have what you have, because your the one who put the time and effort/money into it. I was an endgamer at one point, and being a F2P endgamer it was very easy to sustain my IS needs without having to break much of a sweat. Yes, it was nice, but not so nice for everyone else. Being the person I am though, I gave a lot of freebies, I support servers not guilds.

On the other hand, there are those who don't have what they want, and they want it. If they can get it, they'll sweep it up. This gives equality to those people, who are a large portion of gamers, and they will enjoy this. The downside is nobody will be able to support themselves as efficiently as before at endgame.

This creates a power imbalance. And that turns into an economy question. Everything becomes extremely cheap and abundant. People are happy, no issues for a while.

Once everybody has what they want however, and the market crashes it becomes a survival of the most economically inclined to get ahead in the game.

Did I ever say I agree'd with this change? No, I am a fan of the challenge, and a fan of a proper and functional economy. I just said, GF will make the most money they can, and they will make a lot of money off of so many people gearing more, spending more money, because they have more materials in the game to do so.

However, as I said before, this will just eventually lead into a crash, unless they release more content very frequently. Probably within 2-3 months. But this would also create another issue of people not wanting to regear so much. Either way, old system works, this one will have a glory moment, and quickly fade to dark.

Quoted from "RoMunited;603795"

Of course they run hard mode for gear as well, someone already said part of the fun is the risk reward concept. I'm just saying that saying endgamers don't want other people to have gear is ignorant.

I'm actually not an endgamer though so my opinion on the gear/stats thing wouldn't be what you're looking for :p

First Yomen, I am starting to like your posts more and more. I think you are right 1) farm it more farm it faster, don't complain. 2) Yeah the only thing (besides fixing the mems) they can do at this point without breaking things is a harder mode. I hadn't thought of that. The only part I see that you missed it... it may not be that they broke it, but it is working as they wanted it to. Everyone is assuming there is something to "fix", which is the point I was TRYING to bring up. It may be a new design by GF/RW and is working EXACTLY the way they want it... To make more money. Now RoMunited, problem is they cant come here and go "challenge, blah blah, excitement, blah blah" and then go, the gear is about risk and reward. Nope sorry. The fact that KBNHM UD armor pieces are put in the AH for 50-60 mil unplussed, unstated, untiered... is Unacceptible. Also I don't think instances should require, specialty foods like Diamond wedding foods, hot stew, and egg rice dumplings. GMs aren't handing this stuff out, so it shouldn't be something people should expect to run it. Rich guilds shouldn't be the only ones with access to them more than others. I actually like (the more I think about it) the suggestions here. They should put a new harder mode in (Thx to Yomen), and make the same gear drop (just make it Bind on Equip). Therefore endgamers get their "rush" of running it and then don't need ABLs to sell it. This should reduce the price (not needing an ABL), making the gear more accessible to newer players and the ones that aren't THAT OP, can just run Hardmode as is to get the gear... just need abls...

Quoted from "YomanROM;603798"

Compared to now? Don't think so because the higher amount of defense crit resistance and HP naturally forces the fight longer makes events appear at all for the first time.(they do have events, just noone gives a shit because you can burn with t6 gear and t9 weapons)

I guess on the events thing you're right, but when I'm talking about the length of the instance I'm talking about extra rooms or something like that like in GC you need go on hard mode to fight Annelia. A variation on the normal modes dropping hard mode stuff would be something similar to the GC thing so that in order to complete your set you would need to go through hard mode to get it

Dkjester I admit sometimes gear prices are really stupid and endgamers use the excuse that they worked their way up to be able to get that gear, but thats an issue on how Gameforge manages the economies on the servers than greedy endgamers (at least most of the ones I know ).

you're right rune they want us to gear up, spending 250mil a piece lol..

Quoted from "spazx;603803"

you're right rune they want us to gear up, spending 250mil a piece lol..

lets put gameforge to work farming gold in FA for our gear!

At least then they'd actually be doing something

well do the math ok, endgamers of today. most of em spent like 300 to 500$ in their entire lives to get their gear some even less. now go with dias price.

20$ gives you 505 diamonds.
100$ gives you 3300.

now people buy dias when there's a diamond sale right so make it x2

20$= 1010 dias
100$= 6600 dias.

price of dias are going at 70k per right now or so.

1010 x 70 000 = 70 700 000 gold
6600 x 70 000 = 462 000 000 gold.

505 x 70 000 = 35 350 000
3300 x 70 000 = 231 000 000.

so basically if there's no diamond sale. you need to spend around 100$ per piece of gear explain me how that is right lol?

there's other way to make gold but that's the easier one and the most common one.

Quoted from "Mamn00n;603799"

You don't want people to have what you have, because your the one who put the time and effort/money into it.

Yeah, who has time for competition?

I guess it is different from person to person, but when I was endgame, I'd help people regardless. I would always want people to be on my level or better so I can compete with them on an even playing field. Isn't the whole point of competition to be the best with everyone have the same as you? I took pride in trying to be the best by a game of skills rather than who has the better gear. Not saying make it easy, just allow room for competition.

Ultimately, the economy is screwed either way. The market for endgamers keeps getting smaller and smaller with every month on the calendar. Pretty soon there will be 50 people on average per server (and that is being generous too the PvP servers and Palenque), and then who will buy that gear? Even if one guild is running it, everyone on the server will have everything they need in a month's time. At least with this easier instance, things may become cheaper to people and attract new people in or others from quitting.

Sometimes i wonder if what i killed was even a boss,

Boss 3:


Boss 4:


Gonna surpass 5 mil+ soon.

Please tell me that isn't too easy, come on, do it.