Possible revamp of the Easy, Normal, Hard instance modes

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Friday, August 9th 2013, 3:15pm

I've been thinking about this for a while and I wonder if the 1,2,3 system we have ( easy, normal, hard ) should be re-tuned to make the game more fun & possibly keep ppl playing the various instances

Mode 1: ( Easy ) Should be designed solely for the f2p & RP gamer. This player is playing RoM w/ the intent to get to know the game and just enjoy the storyline.

1. ALL QUESTS need to be able to be completed in this mode. RW should NEVER design a quest that cannot be completed in a Mode 2 ( Normal ) or Mode 3 ( Hard ) instance.
2. ALL INSTANCES need to be able to be completed by a group with quest gear at no higher than +1 and 3 stat fusion stone statted gear: ( ie, +3 stam, +5 phys attack, +3 int ) + 3 yellow stats

Mode 2: ( Normal ) Should be designed for the gamer who wants to invest a little more into the game. This player has enjoyed the storyline, has been through a few instances, is getting familiar with more advanced play techniques and is ready for a challenge.

1. ALL INSTANCES need to be able to be completed by a group with purples from Mode 1 ( EASY ) up to +10 and yellow stats appropriate of the instance level that are attainable from Mode 1 ( EASY ).
2. ALL DROPS appropriate for the level should be available in Mode 2 ( NORMAL )

Mode 3: ( Hard ) Should be designed for the bleeding-edge gamer who has invested a lot of time and effort into the game. ALL Mode 3 ( Hard ) Instance mobs should be Max level +4.

1. ALL INSTANCES need to have attributes appropriate for fighting off the best that we have on our servers.
2. ALL DROPS will be unique to the instance, but they will all be worth the hard fight.
3. ALL STATS will be on-par with other stats. ie, HM CASTLE, HM MIST, HM ECLIPSE, etc.. will all be the same
4. EPIC STATS can appear on DROPS randomly

In a nutshell, Mode 1 will be for the casual player, Mode 2 will be for the "middle" player and Mode 3 will be for bleeding edge players.

When a new cap comes out, all of the HM instance mobs and bosses will go up in level as well; they will pace the players. I expect all of the HM gear that was attainable from the previous iteration to be available as random Mode 2 ( Normal ) drops in the newest instance. This will give the HM players an edge if they stay on the bleeding edge.

The EPIC stats I mentioned above will be random stats that can appear only on HM gear. I don't want to guarantee that these will appear on say the last boss; I want players to want to farm these instances for these EPIC stats. & the best part is that EVERY HM instance has a chance to drop these EPIC stats.

let me know what you guys think.

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karmakarma

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Friday, August 9th 2013, 3:33pm

How about an instance for players that want to try solo runs. Most high level instances (not all) but from 70 and up require some sort of group strat. Making solo runs impossible. Tosh is a good example, can't even go past 1st boss without a group strat

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ycavan

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Friday, August 9th 2013, 4:19pm

Solo instances would be fun, but they could detract from the "M" in MMORPG...

Having said that, I think it'd be fantastic! Something to do while waiting for a group...

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token123

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Friday, August 9th 2013, 4:38pm

I think everything listed above sounds good. As for solo instances, maybe make it so you can only complete them once a day. Then they would be something to fill time and not a source of farming gear and stats.

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ruisen2000

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Friday, August 9th 2013, 4:40pm

Quoted from "karmakarma"

How about an instance for players that want to try solo runs. Most high level instances (not all) but from 70 and up require some sort of group strat. Making solo runs impossible. Tosh is a good example, can't even go past 1st boss without a group strat

I think this would be a nice idea actually. In another MMORPG I've played, although most instances requires a group, they did design a few solo instances.

As for the original post, in addition to the lack of players geared enough, I think there's a general "fear" of higher level instances, because people are afraid of going through deaths and golden hammers. In addition to normal mode made easier, unless the mentality changes, it would still be difficult to get people to run instances. 2 chapters later, there are still people on Govinda complaining that GCH is too difficult, even with current XI/shell stats.

Imo, perhaps they did try to make instances more appealing to the masses, which is probably why they've been so reluctant to buff up Bethomia to be that difficult. Even as a non endgame guild, my guildies were able to clear Beth Normal, whereas we can only down Boss 1 for Bedim Normal and KBN Normal.

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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ruisen2000" (Aug 9th 2013, 4:48pm)

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ycavan

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Friday, August 9th 2013, 4:53pm

That's what I'm really trying to combat here.. that "fear" that players have.

It's not about making Normal "easier" it's making it feel like a progression. RW hasn't really made it worthwhile for players to Normal mode. Let's be honest.. it's Easy or Hard.

For the casual player, Mode 1 will offer everything they'll need for a feel of RoM & the rich storyline. The instances will make sense and people can learn how to play their classes.

Mode 2 instances will force the players to make use of what they've learned in Mode 1 & mebbe toss in the beginnings of strategy required to play through.

One of the things I thought about requiring in Mode 2 was the bronze, silver, gold, platinum series from RT... like bronze would be completable by a group w/ up to +6 gear; silver would be the same as bronze +10% patk/matk/pdef/mdef for bosses; gold would be +20% & platinum would be + 30%

The point is to give the players a sense of accomplishment as they go on their journey. & as they become seasoned adventurers, they'll start to lose that "fear" of the challenge in front of them. Maybe.. they'll try hard mode & wipe a lot, but come back stronger.

It's something that I feel is wrong w/ RoM is that the game really only has 2 levels... ridiculously easy & pretty hard.

But having Mode 3 ( Hard ) for all instances, we'll at least see players back in the "old" instances like FA. Imagine those guys @ lvl 84... HATED fighting that Prisoner. ;)

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Cike

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Saturday, August 10th 2013, 4:35am

i like this idea tbh...the issue people have with progression though is the obscene cost to regear...

WTB TT or IDK50 HM

my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

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pietroasp

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Saturday, August 10th 2013, 11:10am

Well as for me I would agree on easy should give all the quests. As for the rests I see it a bit differently.
There are two ways:
Make hard 1/day as is was with old raid instances (HoS/DL/ZS) and leave the rest as it is now. Simply and clean. Of course all of yellow stats can drop on NM or for mementos

Change NM to drop all HM EQ and make higher HD droprate on HM and change drop to be with orange stats (not only last boss as it is now).

Besides not doing an instance is usually not only EQ dependent. Bethomia HM (before "FIX") was doable with 5 players and still most of medicore guilds was not able to do anything after 4-th boss with full 12. I can see a lot of players with very good EQ doing 1/5 of my DPS, so yes we can and probably should do content more accessable, but still it will most cases only makes it to easy for endgamers and for the rest if they didn't learn how to play change nothing.

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Dkjester

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Monday, August 12th 2013, 11:29pm

I think this is a GREAT idea. It has been something I have pushed for for a while. Instances shouldn't be avail to the top 10% for easy, top 5% for norm and top 2% for hard. That leaves a LOT of people not being able to take part in this... and honestly it drives casual and medium-core gamers away. It kills small guilds and is just not a good business model.

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ruisen2000

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Tuesday, August 13th 2013, 2:13am

Quoted from "Dkjester"

Instances shouldn't be avail to the top 10% for easy, top 5% for norm and top 2% for hard. That leaves a LOT of people not being able to take part in this... and honestly it drives casual and medium-core gamers away. It kills small guilds and is just not a good business model.

Easy mode is available to the majority of the population, not just 10% lol (unless if you're on Palenque or PvP servers I guess :p ), since KBN easy they've been
about as difficult as WA.

Most guilds on Govinda can easily farm easy mode, except for tosh easy.

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Dkjester

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Tuesday, August 13th 2013, 4:05am

what about beth easy? how many % do you think can run it? I would say 10%

COB easy... 0%

KBNEM... you know I still know proably only the top 15% of guilds on artemis can run it...and I am being generous.

You are thinking % of endgame... not % of population I think

There are tons of guilds that cant run HOS/DL/ZS normal everyday. Let alone WA. lets not even talk about, RT, KT, on up. I am not kidding, we joined a level 12 guild a month or so back. That couldn't run HOS/ZS/DL. Couldn't run KBN easy. They were in the top 10% of the siege ranking too.

I can just see a group of quest geared people... trying to run KBN easy... EVEN at level 80. OMG.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Dkjester" (Aug 13th 2013, 4:10am)

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ruisen2000

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Tuesday, August 13th 2013, 9:51am

Quoted from "Dkjester"

what about beth easy? how many % do you think can run it? I would say 10%

COB easy... 0%

KBNEM... you know I still know proably only the top 15% of guilds on artemis can run it...and I am being generous.

You are thinking % of endgame... not % of population I think

There are tons of guilds that cant run HOS/DL/ZS normal everyday. Let alone WA. lets not even talk about, RT, KT, on up. I am not kidding, we joined a level 12 guild a month or so back. That couldn't run HOS/ZS/DL. Couldn't run KBN easy. They were in the top 10% of the siege ranking too.

I can just see a group of quest geared people... trying to run KBN easy... EVEN at level 80. OMG.

Bedim Easy is slightly more difficult, but there should be no reason that people cannot run KBN Easy or Beth easy (except for B5 in Beth, since most people can't get past stepping stones).

I've been in many PuG's with random people - none of which were anywhere near the top 10%, and have had no problems farming KBNE. I assumed it was fairly obvious that I'm not referring to ungeared level 80's with 10k HP and some weapon from DoD - obviously, they're not going to run anything. I'm talking about the midgame majority - the 50k-70k HP people. Even with shell gear and 3 X stats on almost all my gear, I can solo the first 2 bosses in KBNE, whereas I cannot solo Boss 1 KT - that should be a very clear difficulty comparison. I'm not sure if you recall all the threads talking about how awesome KBNE is, where people were farming it enmasse for T5's. They were regularly geared people I've met in siege, not OP endgamers, and they were all happily farming KBNE. KBNE and Beth Easy is also the only instance where I've often seen people shout LFG for in ghetto world, and the CoI parties actually fill up (and rather quickly too).

Guild rankings don't always give a picture of a guild's PvE capability. Some guilds are PvP guilds, they siege and chat, but do not run instances. Back in chapter 4, a 1000 point guild I met were able to run Sardo normal first few bosses, whereas another 2.5k point guild have never stepped foot in Sardo at all.

I'll try not to speak for Artemis, but KBNE is not a big deal for Govinda, and if on Artemis, only 100k HP unbuffed people can run easy mode, then Artemis is in a more depressing state that I ever imagined.

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Lemonater

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Tuesday, August 13th 2013, 1:40pm

KBNE tis a cakewalk. Although me no hast gone beyond first boss solo, our guild an many others solo an/or duo KBNE all the time. At least we usered ta. No reason now, really, lessen yer lookin fer mems, or maybers dirty t5s. Beth fer clean t5s, again, tis pretty easy.

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ycavan

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Tuesday, August 13th 2013, 3:03pm

Thanks for the discussion guys :) I've now made a formal post in the Suggestions area :)

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ruisen2000

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Tuesday, August 13th 2013, 4:11pm

I forgot to add one thing - which is the boss setup. In some instances, a boss with the most difficult strat is putted near the start of the instance. For example, the first boss in TOSH-H is a lot more difficult than the 2-3 bosses after it. Another example would be Bedim, where the second boss is has a strat that is quite a lot more difficult than the bosses after it. Whereas some of the later bosses have an extremely simple strat.

Imo, if it does not disrupt the lore (and most instances don't have much to do with the lore anyway), bosses with the easiest strat should be putted first, and the ones with more difficult strats after. This would probably allow a little more instance runs to happen. Most regular guilds who try out Bedim on easy get discouraged when they see how difficult the strat is for boss 2 (and for regular guilds with no experience in complex strat execution, that was is pretty hard - even on easy mode), and miss out on how fun the rest of the instance can be. The same goes for TOSH first boss, and a few other instances as well.

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ycavan

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Tuesday, August 13th 2013, 4:22pm

definitely agree that more difficult strats should appear later on in the boss fights.

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Borella

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Wednesday, August 14th 2013, 12:50am

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

I forgot to add one thing - which is the boss setup. In some instances, a boss with the most difficult strat is putted near the start of the instance. For example, the first boss in TOSH-H is a lot more difficult than the 2-3 bosses after it. Another example would be Bedim, where the second boss is has a strat that is quite a lot more difficult than the bosses after it. Whereas some of the later bosses have an extremely simple strat.

Imo, if it does not disrupt the lore (and most instances don't have much to do with the lore anyway), bosses with the easiest strat should be putted first, and the ones with more difficult strats after. This would probably allow a little more instance runs to happen. Most regular guilds who try out Bedim on easy get discouraged when they see how difficult the strat is for boss 2 (and for regular guilds with no experience in complex strat execution, that was is pretty hard - even on easy mode), and miss out on how fun the rest of the instance can be. The same goes for TOSH first boss, and a few other instances as well.

Mm, false. The second boss in ToSh is a million times harder than the first boss, BY FAR. Although I see your point with the first two bosses being some of the hardest in the instance, though sixth and fourth are also a PITA. That instance all around is just great.. I loved it.

Meh.. bedim second isn't really that difficult at all. Third is alot more difficult. Second just requires a warden/scout or someone with ppots or cake.

KBN first is a cakewalk, second is admittedly difficult but since it can be skipped it doesn't really matter. Third is an extremely simple strat. Fourth is admittedly stupid by all who ran that instance. Fifth is easy. Sixth is the hardest boss in the instance, And seventh is a cakewalk. So KBN is just kind of a hard instance all around not really just cause of the first couple bosses. If anything KBN does a good job of having the easiest bosses at the beginning.

Bethomia is just burn.. idk if there even is a strat so can't comment.

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ruisen2000

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Wednesday, August 14th 2013, 3:53am

Quoted from "Borella"

Mm, false. The second boss in ToSh is a million times harder than the first boss, BY FAR. Although I see your point with the first two bosses being some of the hardest in the instance, though sixth and fourth are also a PITA. That instance all around is just great.. I loved it.

Meh.. bedim second isn't really that difficult at all. Third is alot more difficult. Second just requires a warden/scout or someone with ppots or cake.

KBN first is a cakewalk, second is admittedly difficult but since it can be skipped it doesn't really matter. Third is an extremely simple strat. Fourth is admittedly stupid by all who ran that instance. Fifth is easy. Sixth is the hardest boss in the instance, And seventh is a cakewalk. So KBN is just kind of a hard instance all around not really just cause of the first couple bosses. If anything KBN does a good job of having the easiest bosses at the beginning.

Bethomia is just burn.. idk if there even is a strat so can't comment.

Thats weird, maybe we got lucky than. Took us 6 hours to get past first boss in TOSH-H. When I came back an hour later, they told me next 3 bosses were already down.

Bedim I based on easy mode (I assumed that I could extrapolate that to normal, but I guess not). Strat for third boss on easy is actually pretty easy, just have to hug the boss when he calls your name. But even on easy, second boss is absolute hell. In PuG groups, 99% of the people absolutely refuse to even do second boss on Bedim easy.

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pietroasp

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Wednesday, August 14th 2013, 5:53am

Well bedim normal is doable even solo and only then (solo run) probably hardest boss is 4-th, as for 2-nd and 3-rd both are quiet difficult, still 5-th is just to be killed.

In KBN you can't really skip 2-nd boss DK how about barriers, as I always do whole inst, but as my friend told me if you skip it it will spawn before 5-th boss on enrage. 4-th if not burn is probably harder than 6-th, as after a while you will simply loose team members one by one

From my perspective making later bosses harder is logical way, still not entirely sure if good option, as first bosses could be some kind of barier of how you can do tactic, but probably than they should have lower DMG, so it will be hard to die (not too hard), but it will not be burnable. Ideal would be 1-st boss KBN+ToSH way, so few lvl lower than others and good percentage tactic I will add 1/3 lower DMG than on other bosses and one purple in drop. Later moderate 2-4 wit 2 purples and extremely hard 5-7 with 3 purples + 7 or even 6+7 with orange stats.
Other way and currently it seems instances are designed this way is that first boss actually checks if yous DPS/HP is good enough to finish full run, at least if worked for KBN 2-nd, BT and ToSH. If you could burn 1-st boss you can burn whole instance (meaning burn boss to 0 or at least burn to avoid some part of tactic), if you can kill him, than you can do full run (more or less smoothly), if he kills you, than you need better equipment.

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northend

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Thursday, August 15th 2013, 1:50am

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "Borella"

Mm, false. The second boss in ToSh is a million times harder than the first boss, BY FAR. Although I see your point with the first two bosses being some of the hardest in the instance, though sixth and fourth are also a PITA. That instance all around is just great.. I loved it.

Meh.. bedim second isn't really that difficult at all. Third is alot more difficult. Second just requires a warden/scout or someone with ppots or cake.

KBN first is a cakewalk, second is admittedly difficult but since it can be skipped it doesn't really matter. Third is an extremely simple strat. Fourth is admittedly stupid by all who ran that instance. Fifth is easy. Sixth is the hardest boss in the instance, And seventh is a cakewalk. So KBN is just kind of a hard instance all around not really just cause of the first couple bosses. If anything KBN does a good job of having the easiest bosses at the beginning.

Bethomia is just burn.. idk if there even is a strat so can't comment.

Thats weird, maybe we got lucky than. Took us 6 hours to get past first boss in TOSH-H. When I came back an hour later, they told me next 3 bosses were already down.

Bedim I based on easy mode (I assumed that I could extrapolate that to normal, but I guess not). Strat for third boss on easy is actually pretty easy, just have to hug the boss when he calls your name. But even on easy, second boss is absolute hell. In PuG groups, 99% of the people absolutely refuse to even do second boss on Bedim easy.

2nd boss was much harder at lvl with gch weapons than jenny, you can largely ignore adds and his mechanics now which is not an option with the first boss no matter your dps.

The problem I see with making only the last couple bosses hard is weapon distribution, either have weapons only coming off the last couple or make every boss hard, I'd vote for the latter, Annelia is a good baseline for a 'hardmode' boss.

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Possible revamp of the Easy, Normal, Hard instance modes

Possible revamp of the Easy, Normal, Hard instance modes

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